View Full Version : What is causing this? (M&P40)
This gun my brother originally bought as his duty weapon in middle 09. He kept having problems with it failing to go into battery so he switched to glock after the academy. He sent it back to S&W and they sent it back saying it was fixed. He has shot several types of ammo and tried brand new magazines and still the same problem. He has shot it once since getting it back and we shot it again today. This is what we got six times in 3 magazines. Any insight is welcome.
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x138/ZoomByU/b56e466f.jpg
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x138/ZoomByU/74f7d1d0.jpg
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x138/ZoomByU/eff73ecf.jpg
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x138/ZoomByU/feda1375.jpg
Is that a live round or empty case?
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BringMeTheHorizon
05-09-12, 17:47
Looks like the round could be catching on the feed ramp. I had a high power that would catch the mouth of the casing and cause a malfunction similar to that.
I have had this happen with steel cased ammo on both M&P's and Glock's never that many times but rarely. I smack the gun back into battery and keep shooting, Im sorry I do not have the reason why.
Also it will not go into battery if I hit the rear of the slide when it's in that position. I have to pull back on the slide slightly then it will go into battery.
I don't think it is hitting the feed ramp, looks like it is getting hung where the round needs to slide under the extractor... I'd start there. Maybe a burr or bad spring tension.
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No burs on the extractor. Field stripped and put a round behind the extractor claw. Kind of have to force it in there and it will not come out when shaken violently. My glock it slides right in and will come out when shaken violently. So maybe extractor spring tension?
Yea my M&Ps aren't that tight.... Similar tightness to what you described on the Glock
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Here is a pic of the feed ramp and barrel.
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x138/ZoomByU/6edae4d9.jpg
It looks like they just polished the ramp and called it good enough. I would contact S&W.
Does it do this with brass/steel/aluminum casings? Hollow point and jacketed rounds? Does it occur during rapid strings or slow fire?
If it did this out of the box then S&W needs to know about this and really fix it.
I would make sure the mags springs are good and have the latest #9 stamped follower. I would make sure there is no burr or sharp edge on the extractor, so the cartridge slides under it without binding. The extractor spring is most likely okay as long as it is not out of spec and to strong. Make sure there is no burr anywhere on the breech face or feed ramp. Polish the feed ramp . Replace the recoil spring assembly if it is old and weak.You might also try using mags from an M&P that is known to be reliable. If it were my pistol I would keep sending it back until they (S&W) get it right.
It looks like they just polished the ramp and called it good enough. I would contact S&W.
Does it do this with brass/steel/aluminum casings? Hollow point and jacketed rounds? Does it occur during rapid strings or slow fire?
If it did this out of the box then S&W needs to know about this and really fix it.
Does it with brass and aluminum fmj. Was goin to try jhp next time. Happens fast and slow fire.
Does it with brass and aluminum fmj. Was goin to try jhp next time. Happens fast and slow fire.
Yeah S&W needs to take it back.
RogerinTPA
05-10-12, 07:28
Interesting. Have you tried cleaning and lubing it? I say that because when I first got my M&P40 years ago, I bought it at a gun range and shot it as soon as I bought it and had similar issues. As soon as I added lube, the problem went away.
Interesting. Have you tried cleaning and lubing it? I say that because when I first got my M&P40 years ago, I bought it at a gun range and shot it as soon as I bought it and had similar issues. As soon as I added lube, the problem went away.
It was dirty this time but was lubed up.
Send it back again, and be clear that this is the second time with the same issue. I would include the pictures and a detailed description like the one you gave above.
I have had good response from S&W in the past.
Do you have your magazines marked somehow? Does it happen with one magazine or all of them?
I'd probably still send it back to S&W with the photos and a detailed description of the problem, wouldn't hurt to tell them that it was supposed to be a LEO firearm either.
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It looks like an extractor issue. I would pull the extractor out, check the channel, spring, etcl. Put a slight radius on the leading edge of the extractor, replce the spring and give it a go.
I have Apex FRE's in all of my M&P's and had to give the extractor a good radius / polish to get them working really well (As Apex suggests)
Borrowed a barrel from a reliable m&p and going to take it out Wednesday or Thursday and test it out.
Finally had a chance to test it with a new barrel today. I shot 50 rds of the aluminum blazer, 46 rds of Winchester rangers, and 50 rds of federal brass. It had the same malfunction as above 8 times. Seven of them were with the aluminum with both the barrels. One was with the JHP with the new barrel. No malfunctions with the brass. The other times it did it with brass was with lawman fmj. It malfunctioned with all three magazines that I had. Gun was clean and oiled before this trip.
I would send it back to S&W for sure. Include your pictures, and detailed descriptions of the malfunctions, their frequency, ammo type, etc. Let them know the condition of the gun (clean, lubed) and that it's happening with all mags.
I'm having the exact same problem with my Midsize.45..So far I've replaced mag springs, recoil spring, still happens..Now, the odd thing is, the ammo used, my loads, 200gr LSWC, (with different powders over the last couple of years) Have worked fine up until last fall when the problems began, the pistol itself dosen't have that many rounds on it (3000, give or take) I'm thinking it's the extractor...Shipping back to S&W isn't a option, as I'm not removing all my Apex parts..
I spent two minutes on the phone with S&W and they are emailing me a shipping label.
I forgot to add I had one of the rangers hit me in the face. That was a first.
I encountered this kind of problem several times (in different pistols). Usually it was matter of one or all following problems:
1. Too weak magazine spring do not push round strong enough under extractor (may be also too much extractor resistance)
2. (Too) strong recoil spring / new recoil spring
3. Low powered ammo in combination with high extraction resistance (steel or alu cases) cause slide to loose momentum on rear movement and then also on return to battery.
Usually it was 3rd situation, that made first 2 to show up.
ETA Those are pistol/ammo related sources. There can be also shooter (grip) related ones.
Hogsgunwild
06-14-12, 06:28
I'm having the exact same problem with my Midsize.45..So far I've replaced mag springs, recoil spring, still happens..Now, the odd thing is, the ammo used, my loads, 200gr LSWC, (with different powders over the last couple of years) Have worked fine up until last fall when the problems began, the pistol itself dosen't have that many rounds on it (3000, give or take) I'm thinking it's the extractor...Shipping back to S&W isn't a option, as I'm not removing all my Apex parts..
Hey Ralph, FWIW, I recently sent my 9MM FS back to S&W for it's accuracy issue. My pistol has the FSS and Trigger installed and S&W did not mess with it. I know this is a different issue than you are having, but, I doubt that they would dick with the Apex stuff over a feeding issue. JMO.
Hey Ralph, FWIW, I recently sent my 9MM FS back to S&W for it's accuracy issue. My pistol has the FSS and Trigger installed and S&W did not mess with it. I know this is a different issue than you are having, but, I doubt that they would dick with the Apex stuff over a feeding issue. JMO.
That's good to know..I also have a Apex FSS installed,(works well in a .45) and really don't want to remove it.. I'm also considering a Apex extractor..My reasoning is, if my stock extractor went south in 3000 rnds, what's another stock extractor going to do? I figure Randy's parts are much higher quality. If I have to, I'd rather replace it once, and drive on... I might also try doing a little contour work on the stock extractor, this could also help..
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