Precision .223 Barrel [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

Achilles11B

05-14-12, 10:15

I'm in the prep phase of building a precision AR upper in .223. I have all the parts picked out..except the barrel. I'm not trying to break the bank, so I'm won't be going with Krieger (if it gets to the point where I'm out-shooting the rifle anyway, I'll be thrilled). What are your recommendations and where can I get it? Thanks in advance for the help.

TangoSauce

05-14-12, 10:51

Noveske SS barrels are hard to beat.

BrigandTwoFour

05-14-12, 11:23

Any of the top reputable guys will serve you well.

Noveske was already mentioned, but their cost is on par with Krieger.

Others to consider:

BCM's SS 410 line is probably one of the most accurate on the market
Centurion Arms Recce/DMR barrels
Rainier Arms Ultramatch series (made by Shilen). They also have a new "match" series, but I don't know much about them.

Look through the options, pick one that suits your budget.

Hehuhates

05-14-12, 11:26

This brings up a good question "what is alot for an AR barrel?"

TangoSauce

05-14-12, 11:28

+1 for Rainier Shilen and CA's Douglas barrels too.

Achilles11B

05-14-12, 12:39

BrigandTwoFour

05-14-12, 15:45

Thanks guys. I'd like to keep the price under $350 or so. I looked at Krieger, Noveske and BCM. I like BCM, I have a 16" upper from them and love it, but it seems I'm definitely not the only fan they have based on how often their items are out of stock.

Haven't heard of Centurion Arms or Ranier, thanks.

The Centurion DMR/Recon barrels are about $100 out of your price range, then. The Rainier Ultramatch series is about $10 higher, but their newer match series is about $100 less than your budget.

The Centurion hammer forged barrels are also very good. They aren't going to be as shit hot as the other stainless offerings, but Monty used to have a 1 MOA guarantee on them. He still does, but only if he assembles it. A lot of garage gunsmiths were assembling uppers incorrectly with his barrel and then claiming they didn't meet his accuracy guarantee. I imagine if you had someone who knew what they were doing, a hammer forged Centurion will not only give you more accuracy than you can use, but also last far longer than any other option you've seen.

Achilles11B

05-14-12, 16:15

I'm an AR15 armorer, certified through Armalite. While I have the training, this will be my first real build. I'm confident I can handle it, but I also a few places around my area who I would trust to work on it if I end up having issues.

Regarding the Ultramatch barrels, I think I can swing an extra $10, especially with the positive feedback I'm getting from you guys.

Servo

05-14-12, 22:58

Not to high jack this, but who here has used the Rainier Arms (Wilson) match barrel and what kind of accuracy can be expected?

From what I could come up with it that they are basically a 1/8 WOA. Is this a close guess or am I way off?

BrigandTwoFour

05-14-12, 23:39

There was a thread on TOS about them. From what I remember, the response was very positive. They will still outshoot the vast majority of us.

Grand58742

05-15-12, 02:26

Got a buddy of mine that swears by the White Oak Armament barrels. No personal experience, but I trust him when it comes to advice.

ETA: Looks like most of the stock on their website will come in under your budget as well depending on the length/model you want.

rundm

05-15-12, 03:39

Havn't seen kreiger in a while but if you check around on some of the other boards ee, you might be able to get what you want without having to pay new price for a barrel. I have seen many new/used barrels sell for 100 or so less than what you would expect to pay for new from the manufacturer. Would put that kreiger back in your price point.
Also, like Grand58742 stated above, WOA makes a good barrel and they are not priced very high.

Ned Christiansen

05-15-12, 09:08

A good friend is a High master in NRA High Power competition. This is a man of 60-plus who can no-crap, shoot 2" groups at 200 yards with the iron sights on his target rifles. He has many, may uppers from several high-end shops servicing the precision AR market. I get to see most of them because I flute them for him. Several of them are from White Oak Armory, and they shoot very well for him (before and after fluting). I have the impression, or he told me, or I saw it on their site, that they use Wilson blanks. This company is no relation to Wilson Combat.

This company's been around a long time and they have been the barrel source for many AR manufacturers of their heavy stainless models. Because they OEM to so many brands, I was always tempted to think of them as run of the mill / pedestrian barrels, but I've shot several and they shoot very well. My High Master pal stays on top regardless of what he's shooting but often it's one of these (he's mostly using
6mmAR these last few years though).

I was discussing barrels with another High Master at Camp Perry ten years ago and he said the Wilsons are fine.

BrigandTwoFour

05-15-12, 17:28

FWIW, the unsubstantiated rumor is that the Rainier Match barrel (NOT the ultramatch) is a Wilson blank finished by White Oak Armament.

Ned Christiansen

05-15-12, 18:35

I think I saw that Rainier also offer Sabre Defence heavy stainless barrels. Although Sabre is no longer with us, I'm sure these were made by Sabre at Sabre, since they were one of the few AR manufaturers who did actually make their own barrels. I've used one and it was fine accuracy-wise.

geohans

05-15-12, 19:42

Sorry, but you want to save $100 on the BARREL of a precision rifle?

I think this is false economy.

For $350 you MAY get an excellent barrel; for $450 you will almost certainly get an excellent barrel. That will be the best 100 bucks you spend.

Noveske, Lilja, Krieger. Then Douglas.

Call Compass Lake Engineering, see what they can put together for you.

Yes, there is a reasonable chance you will be fine at 350, but if you care whether it's pushing 1/2moa or not quite managing 1moa, then the barrel is not the place to save money.

fallenromeo

05-16-12, 12:23

^^^^ This!

The barrel is the life blood of the AR. If you want precision, this is the part that will single handedly make the most difference. Don't cheap on the barrel and buy a good one. My vote is Noveske. Yes it is 450, but it comes with a pinned gas block and a gas tube included for that price. That is about 100 bucks worth of parts and labor right there. That makes up your difference.

jbaird22

05-18-12, 01:30

I built a precision AR last year and used a white oak barrel. Using a stock GI trigger, crappy bushnell optics and handloads that are no where near close to dialed in, I can shoot minute of penny at 100 yards. I have the 18" SPR w/midlength gas barrel.

Achilles11B

05-18-12, 18:34

Thanks for the help, everyone. I'm stacking my pennies for a Noveske.

fallenromeo

05-20-12, 03:30

good man. You will not be disappointed.

madcratebuilder

05-23-12, 08:56

I have Pak Nor/Noveske and Krieger precision barrels, I've used White Oak. These all are very good and with the right shooter, a match winning product.

I was surprised just how accurate my last build was with a $200 dpms sass bull barrel. 18" mid length 1-8 is giving me moa with irons. Only been out three times with it and have 320 rounds fired. Shoots better than I expected.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/AR15/fama202.jpg

lwrkeysfisher

05-23-12, 21:13

For the money---White Oak, but then again I've sold mine. All of my precision uppers are now built by MSTN with Noveske barrels (3-groove 1:8T).

I think a Wilson air gauge barrel (from White Oak) will likely serve you well for now, and when you want something better just change it out or sell and buy new.

Achilles11B

05-23-12, 21:18

I'd rather save a bit longer for a top-tier product. I'm taking my time with this project, I want to build it right the first time.

gamewarden

05-23-12, 21:43

Another vote for MSTN Noveske 3 groove 1:8 T. It was the upper I always wanted and finally got it...wish I would have done it sooner!

Sgt_Gold

05-24-12, 19:46

I have a Compass Lake upper with an air gauged Douglas barrel. The air gauging is a guarantee of how concentric and in spec the barrel is. I also have a White Oak Armament space gun upper sith the Wilson barrel. Both rifles will group sub MOA at any distance with good ammo.

A now long retired double distinguished shooter and former menber of the AMU and the USAR teams once told me, "get the Douglas barrel and spend the extra money on ammo for training". I can't stress this enough. Kreiger makes an excellent barrel, but you'de be hard pressed to find someone who can out shoot a Douglas, Wilson, or even the factory RRA stainless barrel.

Achilles11B

05-24-12, 20:58

Like this one?

http://www.fulton-armory.com/barreldouglas18navysprcm1x8threaded.aspx

Biz Kizzle

05-25-12, 10:06

i have a rainier arms 18" ultra-match barrel with rifle length gas that i can say completely out shoots me. so i can personally recommend that.

i just got a geissele SSA this winter, so i'm excited to see what that allows me to do. just had the standard trigger in there before.

i think that any of the noveske, rainier ultra-match, white oak, douglas, bcm ss410, krieger, etc. barrels will suit you well, just pick your flavor.

Pappabear

06-01-12, 13:49

White Oak has very reasonable barrels and are excellent. My 18inch SPR shoots 1/2 groups. I always look White Oak first. I wanted a 14.5 but they don't make them.

TAZ

06-01-12, 15:12

If you don't mind saving a bit more then I think the Noveske will serve you very well. I have a feeling my next build may have a Noveske tube on it. However, I can honestly say that my 18" WOA with rifle gas out shoots me by a lot, so I don't think you'll be sorry if you go that route and use the difference to get better glass, training or ammo.

Larry Vickers

06-09-12, 23:20

My bro Monty Leclair of Centurian Arms and I just filmed an SPR episode for TacTV a couple weeks ago here in North Carolina - we had a great time and shot several different SPR builds including Centurian guns, BCM SPR style rifles and a gun with an AMU style build using the DD rail supplied to the US Army for the DMR program

We had several different barrels including Krieger and Douglas and every gun, with every barrel, shot superbly- we were using Black Hills Mk262 Mod 1 ammo and all the guns left nothing to be desired accuracy wise

My opinion would be you can take your pick of the several different precision AR barrels on the market and be happy with any one of them

Good luck

LAV

Alaskapopo

06-21-12, 02:34

Noveske SS barrels are hard to beat.

I like Noveske stuff but I have to say I have been less than thrilled with the accuracy of my Rogue Hunter AR. Its a 1MOA gun with some loads usually more like 1.3. My Larue Stealth with whatever barrels they use shoots much better down around .65 moa. A friend of mine got a JP barrel for his build and its doing much better. I think that is going to be my next choice.
Pat

Sgt_Gold

06-21-12, 20:20

TangoSauce

06-21-12, 20:39

I like Noveske stuff but I have to say I have been less than thrilled with the accuracy of my Rogue Hunter AR. Its a 1MOA gun with some loads usually more like 1.3. My Larue Stealth with whatever barrels they use shoots much better down around .65 moa. A friend of mine got a JP barrel for his build and its doing much better. I think that is going to be my next choice.
Pat

That's an interesting observation about brand 'N' given how strong their following is on this board. I've often wondered how many people actually bother to test the accuracy of their barrel rather than rely on reputation.

I wouldn't disagree with you Alaskapopo that LaRue groups a little tighter than Noveske. LaRue only sells complete uppers though, so depending on what the OP is after that may or may not be an option. Also, I have heard much more feedback on the consistency and lifetime of Noveske than LaRue, and by no means am I indicating I would expect there to be a difference. Sgt_Gold, this is very true. I have tested my Afghan and shot MOA or a little better. I'm not a sub-MOA shooter, so either of the above bbls would be more than sufficient for my purposes.

Alaskapopo

06-21-12, 23:05

I wouldn't disagree with you Alaskapopo that LaRue groups a little tighter than Noveske. LaRue only sells complete uppers though, so depending on what the OP is after that may or may not be an option. Also, I have heard much more feedback on the consistency and lifetime of Noveske than LaRue, and by no means am I indicating I would expect there to be a difference. Sgt_Gold, this is very true. I have tested my Afghan and shot MOA or a little better. I'm not a sub-MOA shooter, so either of the above bbls would be more than sufficient for my purposes.

I understand and was not saying to buy a Larue Barrel as you can't. But you can get a JP barrel or a Wilson etc. For a precsion gun I am going to try a Kriger next. My friend has one and his gun shoots almost .5moa with my reloads I made for him using Nosler bullets. The same loads are .9 in my Larue and 1.36 in my Noveske.
Pat

Alaskapopo

06-21-12, 23:08

That's an interesting observation about brand 'N' given how strong their following is on this board. I've often wondered how many people actually bother to test the accuracy of their barrel rather than rely on reputation.

Yea I like Noveske stuff but I must say overall I have been disappointed with their Stainless barrels. I have the Rogue hunter and a friend of mine has the 32 ouche competition barrel in a build and we both are getting about the same accuracy. He recently got a JP barrel and we noticed that the JP shoots 3/4 moa right off the bat with match reloads and it shoots 1.25 to 1.5 moa with FMJ bullets. That is what really kills me with the Noveske is that it totally sucks with ball reloads with groups coming in at 2.5 to 3 moa. With Match its much better but for three gun it sucks having to use good bullets all the time. I have to say I won't be buying another Noveske Barrel when the one I have goes bad. Its not that the accuracy is that terrible. Its 1 to 1.5 moa with match bullets and 2 to 3 moa with ball loads which is ok for a three gun rifle. What irks me was these barrels are not cheap and for that kind of money I expect more accuracy. I could have gotten the same performance from a barrel costing $200 less.

All my range reports are on this link.
Noveske Rogue Hunter targets.
http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/NOveske%20Rogue%20Hunter%20targets/

Larue Stealth Targets.
http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Larue%20Stealth%20targets/
Pat

zombie killer

06-21-12, 23:27

I have a Rainier Arms 18" match, I have found it to be extremely accurate with certain hand loads.

This group is only from 50 but it is 5 shots.
http://pbckt.com/pi.NYHG8G

lwrkeysfisher

06-22-12, 05:42

I like Noveske stuff but I have to say I have been less than thrilled with the accuracy of my Rogue Hunter AR. Its a 1MOA gun with some loads usually more like 1.3. My Larue Stealth with whatever barrels they use shoots much better down around .65 moa. A friend of mine got a JP barrel for his build and its doing much better. I think that is going to be my next choice.
Pat

This was also my experience with Novelke Rogue Hunter Barrels. The profile is just too skinny to deliver much beyond 3-round groups. I owned two and sold both, now my Rogue hunter uppers have Recon profile barrels (a $10 option when you order direct from Noveske). These heavier profile barrels all shoot in the .75"@100yds range for me. My precision upper also has a Noveske barrel; however, it is a 18" 1-8T 3gr from MSTN and is very accurate. 5rd groups w/FGMM are often in the 4's and 5's.

Warg

06-23-12, 14:38

This was also my experience with Novelke Rogue Hunter Barrels. The profile is just too skinny to deliver much beyond 3-round groups. I owned two and sold both, now my Rogue hunter uppers have Recon profile barrels (a $10 option when you order direct from Noveske). These heavier profile barrels all shoot in the .75"@100yds range for me. My precision upper also has a Noveske barrel; however, it is a 18" 1-8T 3gr from MSTN and is very accurate. 5rd groups w/FGMM are often in the 4's and 5's.

What length Rogue Hunter barrel(s)? I noticed something similar with my 16", but my groups start to open up after 5-6 rounds. With the 18" this was happening at 3 rounds in quick succession. I did not observe this with a minute plus between rounds.

I was getting sub MOA (5 shot) groups with both FWIW with a variety of match quality, factory loaded ammo.

lwrkeysfisher

06-24-12, 12:18

What length Rogue Hunter barrel(s)? I noticed something similar with my 16", but my groups start to open up after 5-6 rounds. With the 18" this was happening at 3 rounds in quick succession. I did not observe this with a minute plus between rounds.

I was getting sub MOA (5 shot) groups with both FWIW with a variety of match quality, factory loaded ammo.

Both 16", one 5.56 and the other 6.8.

Multi-G

06-27-12, 23:46

I vote to get the White Oak and spend the rest on good ammo.

Those High Power guys really like WOA, mine shoot MOA easily.

bvmbandit

06-30-12, 15:15

kittyhawk

08-28-12, 17:14

What about the DD S2W barrels? Anyone run one?

clmarshall21

08-28-12, 18:17

Glad to hear Rainier Arms is getting some love! +1 for their line up.

This is the one that I own.

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2902

First off, this is the "mid" tier of their line up and it is still given a sub MOA guarantee. Cant beat that! As for the UltraMatch line up, Paul Hwang of Rainier Arms told me the results would naturally be better (just email these guys if you are on the fence).

Mine shoots well and with the rifle length gas, H buffer, and the Rainier Arms XTC break, it has very little recoil (quite loud though). So far I have been able to shoot it at sub MOA (5 shot group) when paper punching with SWA 77gr SMKs and consistently hit steel at 800 on the one occasion that I had the open space to take advantage of. It has been the perfect barrel for the money for my use.

kittyhawk

12-06-12, 05:29

I got their select 16" installed on my s$w m&p t a few weeks ago. 5 Shots resulted in a . 90" group at 100 using 75 gr Otm blackhills match. Just getting it broke in. Can't wait to be back in Texas and run it out to 500 to see what it will do.

Rockhopper

12-07-12, 04:08

What about the DD S2W barrels? Anyone run one?

I would also like to know this

The_Hammer_Man

12-07-12, 15:21

http://www.rogtac.com/daniel-defense-18-5-56mm-s2w-mid-length-chf-stripped-barrel-dd-09121.html

I installed 2 of these for a couple of my LEO friends recently. After some fiddling to get their muzzle devices time correctly they shot sub moa.

It's an odd feeling setup. You pick up what looks like an A-4 but it feels like an M-4. Points almost as fast as one too.

It's what us old timers call .. "handy".

DARK-KNIGHT

12-12-12, 23:50

I love my Noveske Recon. I recently took it out to 700 yards and was making pretty consistent hits. Although it was only my second time shooting beyond 200. I was very impressed for a 16 in. rifle.

ghoster808

12-22-12, 00:24

Recently built a RECCE using a Superior Barrels bbl. This is one of the most accurate ARs I have ever shot, going sub MOA with factory ammo. Probably just lucked out but if this is an indicator of their barrels they get 2 thumbs up from me. Douglas and Noveske are the only other precision bbl.s I have experience with and are also G2G