Mom kills her 4 kids and herself..."experts" paint it as love?!

[Cesiumsponge]

"a rare category of tragedy, experts say"
"Thomas also used a gun, a weapon more likely found in the hands of fathers who kill."
"It's a murder out of love rather than a murder out of hate," he said. "It becomes an extended suicide."


WHAT THE ****?!?! When Josh Powell, a Washington local here possibly killed his wife in Utah, then killed his two kids with a hatchet, killed himself, and burnt down his home. He made national news in no time as a cold-blooded killer on every news radio and TV teaser. This woman kills FOUR of her kids in two encounters and then herself, and it barely makes the news circuits after a day? Then you have articles that actually MITIGATE her behavior saying it's out of love, that her weapon of choice was typically used by fathers, and that it was "a tragedy"?!

****?! I'm pretty ****ing tired of the gender double standards. At least half of the titles used on news stories are passive or completely avoid using the word kill or murder.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-05-16/mother-kill-kids-florida/55021112/1

[montanadave]

The mom was nuts. But what about the ****ing neighbor?

"A 911 call released Wednesday revealed initial confusion over who was shooting, and that a neighbor refused to admit three of the children trying to get into their house for safety. The caller warned one of the children not to enter her home: 'Get back, you're not coming in our house,' she can be heard saying."

Three kids show up at your door crying for help and you send them back home to their nuckinfutz mommy who precedes to murder them then off herself?

Good luck livin' with that.

[SteyrAUG]

While I can completely understand somebody getting tired of playing the game and checking themselves out, unless your children are about to be eaten my lions or some other horrible fate, I will never understand somebody that kills their family simply because "they" don't want to go on anymore.

Any female who kills her kids is Magda ****ing Goebbles PERIOD. Any parent who would do that to their own kids isn't a parent but a truly evil GHOUL right out of a Grimm fairy tale. And that goes double for the "my kid was possessed by the devil" religious retards.

Long as I live I will never be able to figure these people out, but maybe that's a good thing. And for some dipshit to characterize it as some kind of "love" is as reprehensible as any of the many ****ed up justifications for killing "undesirables" in Europe during WWII.

And how exactly does using a gun make it worse? Would they have preferred an axe or a kitchen knife? And all this from a retired FBI employee? That is ****ing scary. I think they should seriously investigate Mary Ellen O'Toole. Phillip Resnickm is also ****ed in the head for spouting the same bullshit.

And contrary to what the experts assert, these are ****ing monsters and the experts are apologists for monsters.

[SteyrAUG]

The mom was nuts. But what about the ****ing neighbor?


I had the same initial reaction. Then I thought about it. The neighbor has probably been dealing with psycho mom for some time and made the decision to steer clear of that family and all the psycho shit that goes on next door. For all the neighbor knew it was the shooter banging on the door.

It is of course a shame, I don't think anyone with an actual understanding of that situation would have denied those kids shelter, but the reality is nobody wants to let crazy into their house.

[Cesiumsponge]

I can empathize with someone who wants nothing to do with a crazy neighbor...harder to say if it was kids screaming for help. We had a crazy family who were real pieces of work. I was lucky enough to live right next to the ****ers. Early on, when they had a clean slate, I let the wife there make a quick phone call on my cell because she claimed she was locked out. I overheard her conversation and she asked a buddy to come over because "I....uh have some 'neat stuff' ". Yeah, ****ing downhill from there.

Lots of traffic showing up and leaving the home. The yard grew vehicles like a Dodge Rampage (seriously? :confused:) and they would often park the vast collection of overspill vehicles along the sidewalks in front of other peoples' homes. Police wouldn't mediate or do shit, and if you tried to talk to the guy face-to-face like a man and ask him nicely to move his stuff, he would retaliate by parking his army of rusty shit up and down the front of your sidewalk, leaving only the driveway clear. Then he would go on rage-fueled cussing rampages in front of neighborhood kids every time he saw you for the next few weeks.

They had an RV parked against the side of the house and some weirdos living in it the entire time. I'd be up at 4:30am getting ready for work and see or hear all sorts of strange shit. On at least one occasion, a neighbor called the cops on him for brandishing. Add that to the obvious screaming you could hear coming from inside the house and no one wanted to deal with them.

People just avoided them like the plague until he stopped making house payments and the bank shut down his shit. Even then, someone continued to live there for weeks after the home was foreclosed and ran a goddamn generator into the wee hours of the morning. It's the one time I found myself wishing there was an HOA or an errant lightning strike. If anyone in that bunch came knocking, I'd ****ing ignore it too. Family was whacked.

[Eurodriver]

I can empathize with someone who wants nothing to do with a crazy neighbor...harder to say if it was kids screaming for help. We had a crazy family who were real pieces of work. I was lucky enough to live right next to the ****ers. Early on, when they had a clean slate, I let the wife there make a quick phone call on my cell because she claimed she was locked out. I overheard her conversation and she asked a buddy to come over because "I....uh have some 'neat stuff' ". Yeah, ****ing downhill from there.

Lots of traffic showing up and leaving the home. The yard grew vehicles like a Dodge Rampage (seriously? :confused:) and they would often park the vast collection of overspill vehicles along the sidewalks in front of other peoples' homes. Police wouldn't mediate or do shit, and if you tried to talk to the guy face-to-face like a man and ask him nicely to move his stuff, he would retaliate by parking his army of rusty shit up and down the front of your sidewalk, leaving only the driveway clear. Then he would go on rage-fueled cussing rampages in front of neighborhood kids every time he saw you for the next few weeks.

They had an RV parked against the side of the house and some weirdos living in it the entire time. I'd be up at 4:30am getting ready for work and see or hear all sorts of strange shit. On at least one occasion, a neighbor called the cops on him for brandishing. Add that to the obvious screaming you could hear coming from inside the house and no one wanted to deal with them.

People just avoided them like the plague until he stopped making house payments and the bank shut down his shit. Even then, someone continued to live there for weeks after the home was foreclosed and ran a goddamn generator into the wee hours of the morning. It's the one time I found myself wishing there was an HOA or an errant lightning strike. If anyone in that bunch came knocking, I'd ****ing ignore it too. Family was whacked.

I'm sorry to get humor out of your misfortune - but that is hillarious! Hahaha

[TAZ]

I had the same initial reaction. Then I thought about it. The neighbor has probably been dealing with psycho mom for some time and made the decision to steer clear of that family and all the psycho shit that goes on next door. For all the neighbor knew it was the shooter banging on the door.

It is of course a shame, I don't think anyone with an actual understanding of that situation would have denied those kids shelter, but the reality is nobody wants to let crazy into their house.

Based on this section of the article "Her husband told the dispatcher: "They tried to break in our front door to get in, I guess to try to get away from her — whoever's got the gun."
I don't think there was any confusion as to who was knocking in their door. IMO these people are enormous pieces of shit. They knew the kids were scared shitless of someone firing a gun and turned them away. Hope St. Peter returns the favor.

[SteyrAUG]

Based on this section of the article "Her husband told the dispatcher: "They tried to break in our front door to get in, I guess to try to get away from her — whoever's got the gun."
I don't think there was any confusion as to who was knocking in their door. IMO these people are enormous pieces of shit. They knew the kids were scared shitless of someone firing a gun and turned them away. Hope St. Peter returns the favor.

Only problem is you and I weren't there and news reports aren't always factual and accurate. Not saying you are wrong or I am right, just saying I can see how somebody might not want anything to do with the "crazies" next door so until I know for certain otherwise, I'm gonna extend the benefit of the doubt.

I also don't want to participate in blaming neighbors for the deaths, the responsibility lies solely with psycho mom.

[Alric]

Not to mention the potential legal consequences of intervening. It sounds good to save the kids, but you could be putting your family on the line for them.

[TAZ]

Only problem is you and I weren't there and news reports aren't always factual and accurate. Not saying you are wrong or I am right, just saying I can see how somebody might not want anything to do with the "crazies" next door so until I know for certain otherwise, I'm gonna extend the benefit of the doubt.

I also don't want to participate in blaming neighbors for the deaths, the responsibility lies solely with psycho mom.

You're correct, I should re state my comment. If the quote is accurate and they did in fact know the kids were trying to escape a gunman and they chose to turn them away they are pieces of shit.

My comment in no way shape or form is meant to take the blame for the acts away the retarded mother. She is the one to blame for all this.

[TAZ]

Not to mention the potential legal consequences of intervening. It sounds good to save the kids, but you could be putting your family on the line for them.

Correct that you could open yourself to some form of liability of you allow the kids into your home and offer them protection, but that still doesn't change the difference between right and wrong.

We bitch and moan about how humanity is depraved enough to stand idle while a woman gets raped and killed or people are beaten to a pulp, but then offer excuses to people for their acts.

In this instance based on the available information, I doubt that there would be much liability to incurr. You dialed 911 for shots fired, kids banging on door screaming and you let them in cause you are in fear for their safety. All that recorded on 911 tapes. Low chance of blow back IMO. Yes you may have to deal with killing the loony bitch if she tries to bang down your door to kill the rest of her kids, but again if what is being said is how it went down low probability of blow back. Cops come find loony bitch dead and 2 kids dead. Shot with gun she has on her person.

Can you imagine the horror those kids felt knowing that their siblings died trying to give them a chance to get away only to be turned down by their self absorbed neighbors. What a shitty deal.

[Alric]

And at the same time, liability is only the thing you consider if the mother doesn't break down the door and kill your family too.

With so many negative endings for said neighbors and imperfect reporting, I'm not going to jump the bandwagon and MMQB their actions.

[Reagans Rascals]

how long does it take for police to respond there?...........

I mean shit... if I had 3 children banging like hell to get into my house for fear of their lives, I wont say I would just automatically let them in but **** me if the police wouldn't already be comin in hot before those children were forced to return home...

I mean literally, in the amount of time it took for the children to bang on the neighbors door, to be refused entrance, and then to have to go back home, and then to be murdered, has to be longer than it takes for police to arrive

[Jer]

Sorry but after recent events I will think twice before I attempt to help strangers in need. I've got enough problems w/o some petty law suit or BS criminal charge for trying to make the world a better place for innocent people. It's sad but the precedent has been set and we're all to obey our masters.

[SteyrAUG]

Can you imagine the horror those kids felt knowing that their siblings died trying to give them a chance to get away only to be turned down by their self absorbed neighbors. What a shitty deal.


But if that is what was happening, why did they go home? Why not haul ass down the street or keep trying other neighbors? It just doesn't make any sense.

[Reagans Rascals]

makes me remember the story of Konerak Sinthasomphone

gets away from Dahmer... found wandering naked on the street... the police pick him up... take him right back to Dahmer... Dahmer proceeds to murder, dismember and eat him...

[usmcvet]

how long does it take for police to respond there?...........

I mean shit... if I had 3 children banging like hell to get into my house for fear of their lives, I wont say I would just automatically let them in but **** me if the police wouldn't already be comin in hot before those children were forced to return home...

I mean literally, in the amount of time it took for the children to bang on the neighbors door, to be refused entrance, and then to have to go back home, and then to be murdered, has to be longer than it takes for police to arrive

In Vermont depending on where you live you could wait close to an hour for the police to arrive. If they knew the kids were in danger the a lower than low for not helping them. If they did not know then it's just another shitty part of a horrible story.

[Cesiumsponge]

I hate jumping to conclusions because of all the unknowns. My initial flabbergasting is still placed squarely on all these idiots that have found ways to mitigate the actions of the murderer and soften the blow strictly because the suspect had breasts. It's really insulting to men to be slapped with shit like:

"It's too simple to say they are monsters who hate their babies," Oberman said. "These are moms who are desperate, who are sick. … (Thomas) loves her babies. She wants to be cremated with her babies."

Did you experts say that about Josh Powell when he took a hatchet to his two kids, then burned the house down? That he was a caring father who loved his kids and cremated them all together? How about Peter Keller who just shot his wife and daughter, then retreated to a bunker he built in the middle of a mountain until SWAT dropped a bomb on him? Was he desperate sick man who loved his family? He was labeled a survivalist gun nut.

Anyhow, according to the article, the mom called the kids back and they returned on their own free will...so it could mean any number of things. What seems plausible would be the kids also being screwed in the head from having grown up in all this craziness. They probably assumed it was nothing out of the ordinary. I question if these kids were troublemakers themselves because of the environment they grew up in. It's not to say troublemaking kids deserve to be shot, but not everyone is going to invite known troublemakers into their home. In either case...****ed up from every angle.

[Cesiumsponge]

SteyrAUG's suspicions appear to be correct. According to several outlets, things like:

"Travis St. Peter and his neighbors said the boys lived in the house with their mom, and they were usually wreaking havoc by lighting fireworks or shooting BBs at nearby houses. "

I"n April, Jaxs threw a bicycle through a window in the house and threatened Thomas, according to a police report. "

"Police were called later that day and police say neighbors often complained of hearing shouts and yells emanating from the house. "

One of the comments on a news story was a local that claimed the local news reported that windows were neighborhood thugs and one neighbor boarded up her windows.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-mom-murders-children-kills/story?id=16352663#.T7Wq7sXrGuw
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/swat-team-called-brevard-home-response-shooting/nN56y/

Some documents on previous calls
http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2012/05/15/Tonya_Thomas_Info.pdf

[Kfgk14]

The mom was nuts. But what about the ****ing neighbor?

"A 911 call released Wednesday revealed initial confusion over who was shooting, and that a neighbor refused to admit three of the children trying to get into their house for safety. The caller warned one of the children not to enter her home: 'Get back, you're not coming in our house,' she can be heard saying."

Three kids show up at your door crying for help and you send them back home to their nuckinfutz mommy who precedes to murder them then off herself?

Good luck livin' with that.

Yep. Love thy neighbor, but those Persian rugs are expensive and who knows if that blood will ever come out, so you'd best really weigh your options before you apply basic moral principles :angry:

This is the world we live in. If a man had done this, it would be an act of cold-blooded murder in society's blinder'd view. But a woman? She and her motherly instincts know what is best, and a bullet? That sure fits the bill!

It's the same as any other double standard; a black man killing a white man is self defense, but the opposite is cold-blooded racist baby-raping murder (in this I'm purely addressing the public's speculation/opinion, obviously legit cases of self-defense and legit murders go both ways). The government can censor us and tax us without question, but a radio station can't regulate its own content and a company can't charge what they want to charge for a product or service because that would be markets working independently, and we wouldn't want our sophisticated European friends thinking we still had one of those evil capitalist economies, would we?

[SteyrAUG]

makes me remember the story of Konerak Sinthasomphone

gets away from Dahmer... found wandering naked on the street... the police pick him up... take him right back to Dahmer... Dahmer proceeds to murder, dismember and eat him...


That one probably made more impact on me than any other, possible exception being the Zodiak killer making girls tie up their boyfriends and then be tied up themselves and then stabbed to death. Despite being drugged the guy had the presence of mind to know he has to escape, manages to do so and had to be desperate to make the police understand him.

[Moose-Knuckle]

It's okay, Oprah and Dr. Phil are going to set us all straight on this. She was depressed and it was the guns fault, had guns been banned this would have never happend. I mean it's not like she would have ever drown them in a lake or the bathtub. . . :rolleyes:






I really do wish I could get that whole innerstellar starship thing up and run'n, FTP (**** this planet). . .

[Reagans Rascals]

I really do wish I could get that whole innerstellar starship thing up and run'n, FTP (**** this planet). . .

no need to worry... Haley's Comet will be coming around again in about 54 years... so lets all just sit back, crack a beer, and wait for the mothership to bring us all home

[TAZ]

But if that is what was happening, why did they go home? Why not haul ass down the street or keep trying other neighbors? It just doesn't make any sense.

You are trying to make sense out of a ****ed up situation. Not possible. Grown adults who, by all definitions, know better behave goofy in stressful situations. Just think how many grown women go back to their abusers or children for that matter. To try and make sense of something like this is an exercise in frustration.

[SteyrAUG]

You are trying to make sense out of a ****ed up situation. Not possible. Grown adults who, by all definitions, know better behave goofy in stressful situations. Just think how many grown women go back to their abusers or children for that matter. To try and make sense of something like this is an exercise in frustration.

And that is why I'm not prepared to lay any blame on a neighbors door.

[Eurodriver]

I just watched the morning news (I am local to this story)

They said that authorities are questioning the father - they suspect his alleged abuse is the reason for the mother going bat shit crazy and murdering her four children.

:eek: :confused: :lazy2:

[The_War_Wagon]

Up is the new 'down' - black is the new 'white' - and... "experts"... can't walk, talk, AND chew bubble gum at the same time. Deliver us, Good Lord, from... "experts"... :rolleyes: