View Full Version : Coburn: U.S. Has 2-5 Years Before Financial Meltdown
http://dailycaller.com/2012/05/15/coburn-u-s-has-2-5-years-before-financial-meltdown-video/
Oklahoma Republican Senator Tom Coburn told The Daily Caller in a video interview that the federal government is in the “midst of committing murder to our republic” and predicted that the U.S. faces a financial meltdown in 2-5 years.
“In 2022, less than 10 years from now, unless we make major changes that everybody’s saying they know has to be made but none of the politicians have the courage to make, the entire federal budget will be made of only three things: interest, Medicare and Social Security, nothing else.”
Also this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW5IdwltaAc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Greek-style Riots are on the way. A depression is on the way. I'm not afraid of any of it. Because: My grandparents made it through just fine, and they told me all kinds of stories. As long as I follow their lead, I'll be ok.
This includes:
• Store up some food/learn to can
• Learn to garden
• Find sustainable employment within walking/bicycle distance
• Convert cash savings into a tangible
• Use banks as little as possible
• Strengthen family relationships
• Find fun hobbies that don't cost money, like sports or music (after initial equipment purchase)
• Train for self-protection. Less money for PD's + more desperate people = high crime = constant condition orange.
Thoughts, comments, gripes, or bitches?
montanadave
05-17-12, 06:57
While I think some of the rhetoric gets a bit hyperbolic and everything is saturated with political posturing and saber rattling, I want to see the long-term debt issues and entitlement reform front and center during this election. If Obama would embrace Simpson-Bowles, he could force the Republicans (and his own party) into a box, walk away with this election and have a clear mandate. If it keeps heading the direction it's going, this presidential contest will be a squeaker, Congress will remain gridlocked, and we might as well call whoever wins President Nero.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
ForTehNguyen
05-17-12, 07:22
I share a similar time frame also
Greek-style Riots are on the way. A depression is on the way. I'm not afraid of any of it. Because: My grandparents made it through just fine, and they told me all kinds of stories. As long as I follow their lead, I'll be ok.
This includes:
• Store up some food/learn to can
• Learn to garden
• Find sustainable employment within walking/bicycle distance
• Convert cash savings into a tangible
• Use banks as little as possible
• Strengthen family relationships
• Find fun hobbies that don't cost money, like sports or music (after initial equipment purchase)
• Train for self-protection. Less money for PD's + more desperate people = high crime = constant condition orange.
Thoughts, comments, gripes, or bitches?
I agree with all of the above except for one thing...
Your grandparents made it through the Great Depression just fine, but the next "GD" will be much worse for you and all of us...it won't be the same GD that your grandparents went through...
Just a couple of reasons off the top of my head are that people back then were MUCH more self-reliant and knew how to provide for themselves. Not saying that you aren't self-reliant, but the population as a whole pretty much was at that time period...
Now, ADD to that the fact that back then, people would stand in soup lines for HOURS waiting for their bowl of soup. Do you honestly think that people these days, especially the entitlement class, will wait for anything, much less a bowl of soup when they haven't had a meal in 48 hrs?? No sir, they will kill for that bowl of soup now. Your grandparents' generation would wait in line and be respectful to one another because they were all in it together....now, its everyone for themselves. Make no mistake about it!
My first statement above about the next "GD" being worse than the last, pretty much has everything to do with people's mindset these days and the EASY way of life that they are accustomed to. Take their Starbucks, American Idol, and McDonalds away and you will see a vicious turn in their actions just to try to get "their share"...there will be no "we are in this together" like before...
This has become a major concern for my wife and I. We have been stockpiling food and canning items from our garden. We use quite a bit of our left over income and put it back into food supplies. Our next big project is building a spring house or a well to guarantee a water supply.
I also agree with the poster above about the type of GD we will experience. It will be a long and very violent time. My major fear will be leaving my home/garden unoccupied for people to come by and “shop” for groceries.
I don’t live in fear but it is constantly a thought in my mind. I can promise that the ball will drop unless we start making hard decisions about what we really NEED and what we WANT.
If a presidential candidate would do something other than investigate or file complaints against unfair business practices overseas. We need to promote domestic production of goods and limit cheap imports that would be the first step. It would be hard but it would stimulate the US economy in the long run rather than other economies.
RogerinTPA
05-17-12, 08:42
I agree with all of the above except for one thing...
Your grandparents made it through the Great Depression just fine, but the next "GD" will be much worse for you and all of us...it won't be the same GD that your grandparents went through...
Just a couple of reasons off the top of my head are that people back then were MUCH more self-reliant and knew how to provide for themselves. Not saying that you aren't self-reliant, but the population as a whole pretty much was at that time period...
Now, ADD to that the fact that back then, people would stand in soup lines for HOURS waiting for their bowl of soup. Do you honestly think that people these days, especially the entitlement class, will wait for anything, much less a bowl of soup when they haven't had a meal in 48 hrs?? No sir, they will kill for that bowl of soup now. Your grandparents' generation would wait in line and be respectful to one another because they were all in it together....now, its everyone for themselves. Make no mistake about it!
My first statement above about the next "GD" being worse than the last, pretty much has everything to do with people's mindset these days and the EASY way of life that they are accustomed to. Take their Starbucks, American Idol, and McDonalds away and you will see a vicious turn in their actions just to try to get "their share"...there will be no "we are in this together" like before...
Agreed. If the next Great Depression does occur, it will be a complete global economic collapse. A complete melt down. I envision the U.S. to be more on scale with Somalia...after the majority of looting, rioting and killing has occurred.
In reading online (Mish'a Global Economic Trend Analysis) He posted list night that China's long suspected real estate bubble popped and is collasping, I also suspect that the EU will break up, within the next year or two. None of this bode's well for the U.S. I would suggest to anyone reading this to read Bob Wiedemer's book "Aftershock" To put it bluntly, the party's just about over.. We've had a fiat currency system for quite awhile, and it's just about ran it's course. When collaspe, and default does come, (and it will) it will take a long time for this country to recover (at least a decade)Mainly, because, of the overwhelming debt we're in..And, I'd like to say there's plenty of blame to go around..This is'nt a Democratic vs Republician problem. Both partys, share the blame equally... The above advice is right, folks aren't going to stand in line for hours for a bowl of soup..They'll kill to get their bowl, NOW.. There some things folks can do to get ready...
Pay off all of your credit cards..
If you have a loan on your car, and you can, pay it off early..
If you have a variable rate morgage, see if you can get into a fixed rate quickly as possible. Ideally, if you can pay your house off now, do it.
Consider buying Gold, Sliver, unlike paper money, neither of these metals have ever dropped to "zero" value..
Stockpile Ammo, food, water, plant a garden, and learn how to can..Although I would'nt go crazy stockpiling, It's not a bad idea.. When buying firearms, consider ammo availabilty, parts support, learning to reload and stockpiling componets, parts, also isn't a bad idea..again don't get too carried away here, large stockpiles of powder, primers are a serious fire hazard, So, keep that in mind.
How bad is it going to get? I don't know..At this point, all one can do is prepare as best you can, and hope the country dosen't tear itself apart in the process..
Doc Safari
05-17-12, 09:58
I am wondering if we can even anticipate the horror and prepare for it.
I keep thinking the traditional preps are equivalent to "training to fight the last war."
It's true that people nowadays have no concept of self-reliance.
How many people on this forum really know how to can?
If everyone plans to hunt in order to survive, the animal population is going to drop pretty quick. You'll be eating the neighbor's dog before it's over.
I don't know...just something tells me if it gets as bad as they say then we can't anticipate all the ways that preparation is needed.
I think some states will be a total write off. If you don't have a viable agri-base and have large urban population centers that cannot support themselves, you're going to be in a world of hurt. No one is going to be shipping food in from thousands of miles away and no one will give a shit how much your iPhone 8Z cost, it will be worth nothing.
You have to produce more than enough food for yourself. You have to produce enough to barter for the other essentials you'll need. I forsee a large die-off in the population. Most will be minority and the elderly. We'll be accused of racism and a plethora of other evils as it happens. Things are going to get very ugly in the future. :(
I am wondering if we can even anticipate the horror and prepare for it.
I keep thinking the traditional preps are equivalent to "training to fight the last war."
It's true that people nowadays have no concept of self-reliance.
How many people on this forum really know how to can?
If everyone plans to hunt in order to survive, the animal population is going to drop pretty quick. You'll be eating the neighbor's dog before it's over.
I don't know...just something tells me if it gets as bad as they say then we can't anticipate all the ways that preparation is needed.
I agree with what you're saying that we really can't fully prepare or anticipate what's going to happen, you just have to do your best to prepare for whatever scenario you see happening.
But I will have to contest the point about hunting all the animals and causing a population drop. I may be wrong, but I don't think that's how it will happen.
First, how many true, die hard, seasoned hunters are there really out there anymore?? How many people truely know how to kill, clean, and cook game...much less stalk and hunt them? THEN, how many people will be able to do all of this, WHILE living a 1800's type of lifestyle (no running water or electricity...if we are talking a true collapse, where there is chaos in the streets, then I'm not so sure that we will have these things available to us 24/7...think rolling blackouts here...although I certainly hope we will)?
Like was said above, if the worst actually does happen, then there will be a massive die off of the population by either starvation, disease, violece, ect. I think this will happen, or start to happen, before people realize that they need to get outta the city and start actually hunting for their own food.
The people who are actually switched on and ready for such an event (most likely guys who already hunt) will have the upper hand since they will have already made plans for this (BOL) or will already be out of the "war zones" that are bound to happen (talking about a total economic/societal collapse here).
The only "wrench" in my theory will depend on the wastefulness (lack of game management, if you will) of those who actually live long enough to go out and hunt thse game animals.
So, no, I don't think there will be any real decline in the animal population, unless we're talking dogs and cats here :p
I am wondering if we can even anticipate the horror and prepare for it.
I keep thinking the traditional preps are equivalent to "training to fight the last war."
It's true that people nowadays have no concept of self-reliance.
How many people on this forum really know how to can?
If everyone plans to hunt in order to survive, the animal population is going to drop pretty quick. You'll be eating the neighbor's dog before it's over.
I don't know...just something tells me if it gets as bad as they say then we can't anticipate all the ways that preparation is needed.
I think we should also temper all this doom and gloom with a little rationalty...Yes, It's going to get bad...I think one will still be able to buy things with dollars..It's just that it'll take alot more of them to buy anything. Civil unrest? When the Gov't finally 'fess'es up and admits there's no more money for entitlements, I expect to see it in large metro areas with large entitlement populations, (sanctuary cities, NYC, Chicago, etc) with possible spillover within a 50 mile radius, until availbilty of gasoline makes it impossible for thugs to get too far out of town. Outside of those areas, I don't expect much in the way of civil unrest. Where I live in rural OH,we are blessed with a over population of deer..They're in my backyard every night..I guess the big question is..What's the Gov't going to do? Marshall Law? One thing I do expect to see, is a BIG change in Gov't. The fix for all this is going to be very difficult, and painful.
I agree with all of the above except for one thing...
Your grandparents made it through the Great Depression just fine, but the next "GD" will be much worse for you and all of us...it won't be the same GD that your grandparents went through...
Just a couple of reasons off the top of my head are that people back then were MUCH more self-reliant and knew how to provide for themselves. Not saying that you aren't self-reliant, but the population as a whole pretty much was at that time period...
Now, ADD to that the fact that back then, people would stand in soup lines for HOURS waiting for their bowl of soup. Do you honestly think that people these days, especially the entitlement class, will wait for anything, much less a bowl of soup when they haven't had a meal in 48 hrs?? No sir, they will kill for that bowl of soup now. Your grandparents' generation would wait in line and be respectful to one another because they were all in it together....now, its everyone for themselves. Make no mistake about it!
My first statement above about the next "GD" being worse than the last, pretty much has everything to do with people's mindset these days and the EASY way of life that they are accustomed to. Take their Starbucks, American Idol, and McDonalds away and you will see a vicious turn in their actions just to try to get "their share"...there will be no "we are in this together" like before...
Not to mention this time the crisis is being created to enable greater control, gov't dependence, and finish off the middle class. It will be used to further destroy the Bill of Rights and if/when we come out of it, we will be less free, by design.
Doc Safari
05-17-12, 13:09
Not to mention this time the crisis is being created to enable greater control, gov't dependence, and finish off the middle class. It will be used to further destroy the Bill of Rights and if/when we come out of it, we will be less free, by design.
BINGO!
Most people's survival strategy will be to accept the yoke.
I'd wager most people on this forum will reluctantly cave sooner or later...that is, unless they know they will starve anyway.
That would be the only scenario where I would expect a radical change in this country's form of government and whatnot.
I don't think anything as radical as that can happen in this country until a certain something has been taken away from the general populace...until then, I think they'll try to prop this whole house of cards up as best they can through printing and quantitative easing, ect.
VooDoo6Actual
05-17-12, 14:22
Not to mention this time the crisis is being created to enable greater control, gov't dependence, and finish off the middle class. It will be used to further destroy the Bill of Rights and if/when we come out of it, we will be less free, by design.
Ya think ? ;-/
Since we're just spittballin' here I'm going w/ less than that time.....
The US dos not have to follow EU or any other country or necessarily have a financial collapse per se to be put into ML/COG or Socialist style Gov. The US has already been primed by recent laws passed for that. There are a number of ways that it can play out. Any way you hypothetically play the scenarios, it's not good.
RogerinTPA
05-17-12, 14:50
I don't think anything as radical as that can happen in this country until a certain something has been taken away from the general populace...until then, I think they'll try to prop this whole house of cards up as best they can through printing and quantitative easing, ect.
Cut backs in entitlement spending (drastically reducing/eliminating/capping unemployment & welfare checks) will be the catalyst.
Doc Safari
05-17-12, 14:55
I don't think anything as radical as that can happen in this country until a certain something has been taken away from the general populace...until then, I think they'll try to prop this whole house of cards up as best they can through printing and quantitative easing, ect.
I think the whole premise is that the gravy train you're referring to is about to run off the tracks as it is. They money tree done been picked clean.
Cut backs in entitlement spending (drastically reducing/eliminating/capping unemployment & welfare checks) will be the catalyst.
Nope. You're thinking more along the lines of what can start massive rioting (and you're right in that thinking) but I was thinking more along the lines of what they need to take away in order to impose their will (completely) on the American people...come on, I know you'll figure it out ;)
Sidenote...the cut backs need to happen anyway!
I think the whole premise is that the gravy train you're referring to is about to run off the tracks as it is. They money tree done been picked clean.
Yes, it's about to run off the tracks if something doesn't change drastically, like right now...but IMO the NWO (ie. the conceding of the US's sovereignty) won't happen unless they take something away from those who don't want to see the US become a socialist country.... :ph34r:
Only if they still decide to press forward with austerity, knowing the outcome of those attempts in the EU was failure. If instead they decide to inflate their way out of the crisis, everything will continue being funded, but wages will not rise, so purchasing power will drop dramatically, forcing more people onto the gov't programs, creating greater dependency and furthering their goal of removing the middle class and increasing dependency.
Yes this is correct as well...I think the EU will fall before we do (that may be obvious to some already) so that might give us a decent timeline as to "when" this whole thing might kick off, but what is it that the citizens of the EU generally don't have (or at the least, have very strict laws for possessing) that we in America (for the most part) can possess at our leisure? This "something" is what would be needed to be taken away from the people so they can't "as a last resort, protect themselves against tyrrany in government" (TJ)....ehh, ehh.... ;)
RogerinTPA
05-17-12, 17:03
Only if they still decide to press forward with austerity, knowing the outcome of those attempts in the EU was failure. If instead they decide to inflate their way out of the crisis, everything will continue being funded, but wages will not rise, so purchasing power will drop dramatically, forcing more people onto the gov't programs, creating greater dependency and furthering their goal of removing the middle class and increasing dependency.
Isn't that the ultimate goal of the socialist agenda?
Nope. You're thinking more along the lines of what can start massive rioting (and you're right in that thinking) but I was thinking more along the lines of what they need to take away in order to impose their will (completely) on the American people...come on, I know you'll figure it out ;)
Sidenote...the cut backs need to happen anyway!
Firearms of course...!
The_War_Wagon
05-17-12, 18:03
I give it 2-5 mos. - election night at the outside. :o
I give it 2-5 mos. - election night at the outside. :o
Truth be told, I've said this for a few years now...but if it doesn't then I think the timeline in OP is probably pretty close.
I give it 2-5 mos. - election night at the outside. :o
The deterioration has been slower than I've guesstimated every single time. So these days, when talking with folks about when I believe the economy will get much much worse; "Within the decade" is my answer
Doc Safari
05-17-12, 22:12
I'll be the special snowflake and say that the next war will get the world's economy out of it. Two to five years for war. Ten years to complete recovery.
If we don't glow in the dark. :help:
The deterioration has been slower than I've guesstimated every single time. So these days, when talking with folks about when I believe the economy will get much much worse; "Within the decade" is my answer
I could be wrong, and I didn't specify what I meant either, but I don't know that War Wagon was talking about an actual economic meltdown...something more on the man-made side...right or wrong War Wagon? (Don't mean to be putting words in your mouth, just wondering if you're tracking the same way I am?)
Entitlements will be cut as a last resort. All the other programs will be cut first.
If they cut back social security or medicare, the old folks will gripe, complain, & send emails about how fouled up the gov't is. No major backlash.
If they cut/take away entitlement programs, they know the "recipients" they bred will burn the country to the ground.
It's like taking a cancer patient & removing all the good flesh while leaving the cancerous tumor to grow & fester. Or wiping your butt before you take a dump. It's all backwards.
The way the system runs is unsustainable. Nobody in power, or likely to be, have any real solutions. The system will have to reset itself. What the aftermath will look like is the question IMO. I'm not worried about my future, I'm worried about the future for my kids, and yours.
"Keep your head down & your powder dry."
Dirk Williams
05-18-12, 10:37
Sadly I believe your all right. Seems like we have been prepping our whole adult lives, but only focused the past few years.
Time Tables are tricky, I think at least for us we have to plan like it's coming tomorrow and hope that we have the OP's time table to complete the projects started.
We have again waffled on Bug in Vs Bug out. Here in Southern Oregon we really don't think we will be hit like you back east or down south. This area is a heaven with gifts of high mtn lakes rivers full of fish and water everywhere. Deer Elk and other 4 legged animals are abundent aswell.
Fertile land and a low population are the standard, though not for the faint of heart.
The right Seeds and skills sets regarding hands on farming are going to be critical aswell. I spend many hours at a friends farm shooting long distance for several years now.
I JUST noticed that in an outbuilding their is a complete blacksmith shop with hearth oven and all the early tools for making iron/metal projects, to include large volumes of coal for heating. That single find is critical and in my mind a god send. There's even a few leather horse tackle items used for plow horses. The name of the equipment escapes me.
We have read 100's of story's/books regarding this stuff in the hopes that at least one of them will give a glimpse into what may come.
We are finding it hard to try and select just one situation, when the reality's are that some events are more likely then not, others are a distinct possibility and should not be scoffed at regarding the prep cycle.
Seems to us that the trick at least here is harvesting only the wild life that you need at the time, from the wild so that the animals can continue to produce off spring for long term related stuff.
If you don't do the shopping in your home start participating , Ive noticed a sharp increase in food/ commoditie? prices every time I head to the market to make purchases.
I noticed that a 1000 rounds of 223 are now in the 350/450 range, that's up 50 to 100.00 already. I predict itt's going to get worse faster rather then slower.
I both hate and enjoy these threads, they make me think long and hard about what is the right thing to do in the short term and the rest of my life.
Thanks for sharing.
DW
Speaking of shopping, there has been stealth inflation going on for several years now.
For example, the product prices stay the same but the product is smaller volume than it used to be. I've noticed this trend is particularly common with toiletries (TP roll size, soap bar size, liquids volumes).
Well I work in banking and I think Mr Coburn is full of shit and is trying to instill fear of Obama by making that statement.
In a nut shell, good loans are increasing, banks are being bought and sold at a higher rate, and inflation is taking place. These are all signs of economic recovery. Cities like Houston are doing so well that they don't even know there is a recession.
All the people who think everything is going to collapse into anarchy in a couple years are ****ing stupid and don't know a damn thing about economics.
Dirk Williams
05-18-12, 17:53
More loans are going thru.?
So what does that mean.
Seems to me a major part of the problem in the US were in fact loans , loans and more loans to Tom Dick Harry, anybody who thought they deserved a bigger house regardless of their ability to pay.
Seems to me that banking was aware of the inability of many to not pass the litness or financial test, yet loans were made and we the people are now paying for them.
Sorry friend but I still feel like the banking industry has a whole lot of splainen to do, To we the people.
My sister in law's in banking and rides me like a Cheap Ass Mexican Donkey when I start talking about this little issue.
She reminds me that banking has paid back their loans and that everything is square.
Looks to me like a slide of hand shell game is being run on the citizens between the banks and the fed.
Or IM all ****ed up.
Have a great weekend everybody.
DW
Bank Exposure to Debt Crisis (http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/derivatives/bank_exposure.html)
VooDoo6Actual
05-18-12, 21:07
All the people who think everything is going to collapse into anarchy in a couple years are ****ing stupid and don't know a damn thing about economics.
Respectfully,
Your going to have to dig deep & wide to back that comment & belief up.
We'll revisit this topic & looking forward to learning & seeing the statistics & facts that back up your opinion.
Note to self: under thread tools, subscribe to this thread.
More loans are going thru.?
So what does that mean.
Seems to me a major part of the problem in the US were in fact loans , loans and more loans to Tom Dick Harry, anybody who thought they deserved a bigger house regardless of their ability to pay.
Seems to me that banking was aware of the inability of many to not pass the litness or financial test, yet loans were made and we the people are now paying for them.
Sorry friend but I still feel like the banking industry has a whole lot of splainen to do, To we the people.
My sister in law's in banking and rides me like a Cheap Ass Mexican Donkey when I start talking about this little issue.
She reminds me that banking has paid back their loans and that everything is square.
Looks to me like a slide of hand shell game is being run on the citizens between the banks and the fed.
Or IM all ****ed up.
Have a great weekend everybody.
DW
Well I don't know what "more loans are going thru" means because I didn't say that.
Your opinion is not totally ****ed up, only partially ****ed up an it is clear that you get all your information from the news.
The mortgage crisis came out of Fannie may and Freddie Mac giving out loans that could not be paid off because our government told them to. Also, there is a massive difference between large an small banks and people tend to lump them all into the same category.
You are WAY undereducated on the subject to have a a qualified opinion on it.
Respectfully,
Your going to have to dig deep & wide to back that comment & belief up.
We'll revisit this topic & looking forward to learning & seeing the statistics & facts that back up your opinion.
Note to self: under thread tools, subscribe to this thread.
Why do you expect me to spoon feed information to you?
What is preventing you from doing a little research?
Why do you expect me to spoon feed information to you?
Predominantly because you expressed an opinion with little factual backing. Doesn't mean you need to give a lecture, but some facts would be good.
The number of loans going through can be either a good thing or a bad thing. Remember the Fannie May and Freddie Mac loans were all deemed to be good loans at one time. Derivatives were seen as good investments, even though very few truly understood what the hell they were. The definition of good differs based on who writes the dictionary. IMO the people writing the dictionary are the same **** ups who wrote the last one, so I'm a bit skeptical when it comes to believing them when they tell me everything is a ok.
I'm not a complete gloom and doom; I'm going to have to fend off the welfare rats with belt feds kind of guy, but I don't believe for one second that things will change for the better until we stop spending money we don't have. That applies to both the government and the people in general. It's a HARD change, believe me. I'm one of those who chose to participate in the want it now cry baby financial model and making the change to cash basis is difficult. Our government hasn't even come to the realization that spending money it doesn't have is a bad idea. They talk a lot of crap, but that is all. Generally the MO for most of the financial sector is to do whatever it takes, including some creative accounting, to pass the potato to the next guy.
You can give out loans, buy and sell banks, debt, restructure payments, inflate money till you're blue in the face an it's not going to help matters much unless our government stops spending more that it takes in.
Well I work in banking and I think Mr Coburn is full of shit and is trying to instill fear of Obama by making that statement.
In a nut shell, good loans are increasing, banks are being bought and sold at a higher rate, and inflation is taking place. These are all signs of economic recovery. Cities like Houston are doing so well that they don't even know there is a recession.
All the people who think everything is going to collapse into anarchy in a couple years are ****ing stupid and don't know a damn thing about economics.
Why do you expect me to spoon feed information to you?
What is preventing you from doing a little research?
Seriously? We're supposed to take a banker's word for it that everything is going to be OK? You guys are on the rung just above lawyers and politicians and just below used car salesmen. All the research is coming up that you're full of shit and you provide nothing but hot air to back up your claim? What exactly does "work in banking" mean anyway? Are you a teller at a bank? :rolleyes:
VooDoo6Actual
05-18-12, 23:28
Why do you expect me to spoon feed information to you?
What is preventing you from doing a little research?
Not sure why the hostile tone but I'll roll with it for now.
Because I wasn't.
Don't know where you got that idea from that I NEED you for research .
Regardless, I only spent a few minutes researching & it was kindergarten stuff really.
I'll put it right up here for you & others perusal. After scrutinizing the evidence from your peers & what I already knew from being at least better than average informed comparatively speaking. Good Luck convincing me the Recession is over, or Banks are GTG.... Sorry the copius data below does not support your statements.
I commonly sourced OP's / articles like "The Good, The Bad & The Ugly" numerous times. So that's 2 out of three still that are not real positive just in the OP's/articles' title. Hence my opinion of we're not out of it yet by a long shot like mainstream media would have us believe. As I mentioned, I consider myself "informed" at least better than average.
I still protect CEO's/CFO's/Presidents of Banks & Corporations at times. I hear the the candid conversations in vehicles, restaurants, meetings etc. The contents of those conversations have NOT been upbeat, in fact far from it. I understand the need to be positive & I am a Half full glass guy BUT I'm also pragmatic and a realist.
The general gist of the sources when you extract the core items are:
The Banking Industry is SLOWLY getting better from what it was. SO what, it was a disaster, a terminal/caustic/toxic/Def Con 2.0 train wreck at best & the other info to glean in a nutshell was that we are not out of the woods yet by any stretch. I took a cross section of Industry type OP's & articles. Tried to avoid mainstream media for obvious reasons. One can make an argument about any number of credibility issues these days. Heck look at the SCOTUS. Ever seen it so FUBAR ? Look at the recent "Bank Run" in Greece. Oh no cause for concern, move right along.
While Bank failures have slowed down, still 24 failure or so in 2012 already this year & we are not even half way done, which while not epic comparatively to 2009, 2010 or 2011 BUT it is of concern obviously. Survival of the fittest no doubt BUT, a considerably higher attrition rate than 2004, 2005 & 2006. So it's not over by a long shot. At least the massive eviscerated hemorrhaging has apparently clotted. No more losses in the Billions lately. Nice to see they applied pressure (ah hummm TARP/Quantitative Easing/Capital Infusion by printing more $ in reality) to get it to at least clot. ;-/
http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/banklist.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_U.S._bank_failures
Even this one below says that the "over all health of Banks" have not rebounded & it was positive.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/28/markets/fdic_bank_list/index.htm
http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/27/pf/customers_big_banks/index.htm?iid=EAL
http://www.bankdirector.com/analyst-forum/state-of-the-banking-industry-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/
http://www.bankdirector.com/index.php/magazine/archives/2nd-quarter-2012/what-is-good-and-bad-about-the-cfpb/
http://www.investorplace.com/2012/03/federal-reserve-stress-tests-jpm-dividend-citi/
http://www.uab.edu/business/inthenews/767-massive-bank-consolidation-on-horizon-iberia-bank-ceo-tells-uab-crowd
http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/areworstbad-loans-over-for-banking-industry_703665.html
http://news.yahoo.com/bank-americas-no-good-very-bad-enablers-170931303.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/nov/02/failed-banks-map-us
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AonYZs4MzlZbdDZWUFNnMHBPUWNzalNQcUNVZkpMTEE&hl=en#gid=0
Sorry if your not feeling warm & fuzzy after this, as it's not personal at all. Trust is the foundation of all relationships & it's going to be a while before I can trust Banking Professionals, if ever. Why because they collectively along w/ help from greedy politicians etc. ruined that for me et alia for some time to come. Sorry, I'm not drinking that Koolaid again....
Oh & you can kiss the concepts of "Phantom Equity" or "Blue Sky Equity goodbye" for the average American now. The game is so rigged for the time being only "the Elite's" kids/families are going to be set up for the most part w/ a few exceptions. You see I do understand economics or at least past concepts like Capitolism, Free Market or Economy of Scale etc. Considering the US has had the most Bankruptcies ever in it's history, it will be interesting & take some time for the Fair Issac Credit/Corporation Origination Score (FICO) to get back for most people. Which means people can't hedge/leverage to become something better for themselves or improve their lives, as in middle class or take vacations, nice gifts for wife, family, kids, or even more Guns ;-/. It means austerity for most middle-class Americans bottom line....Pretty stupid ain't I ?
RogerinTPA
05-18-12, 23:32
Why do you expect me to spoon feed information to you?
What is preventing you from doing a little research?
Because you made the assertion, that's why. YOU back up YOUR statement with FACT.
Seriously? We're supposed to take a banker's word for it that everything is going to be OK? You guys are on the rung just above lawyers and politicians and just below used car salesmen. All the research is coming up that you're full of shit and you provide nothing but hot air to back up your claim? What exactly does "work in banking" mean anyway? Are you a teller at a bank? :rolleyes:
What does lumping all bankers in the same category accomplish?
What does lumping all bankers in the same category accomplish?
It accomplishes putting a wayward industry on notice that their creative accounting is no longer tolerable. That whether you're a good one or a bad one, you will still suffer the scorn your industry earned. I worked for a large regional bank for four and a half years, so I'm aware of how they operate. I wasn't exactly impressed with their honesty.
I notice you've answered none of the most recent questions. If you expect to have any credibility whatsoever on the subject, you'd best get busy! :)
Not sure why the hostile tone but I'll roll with it for now.
Because I wasn't.
Don't know where you got that idea from that I NEED you for research .
Regardless, I only spent a few minutes researching & it was kindergarten stuff really.
I'll put it right up here for you & others perusal. After scrutinizing the evidence from your peers & what I already knew from being at least better than average informed comparatively speaking. Good Luck convincing me the Recession is over, or Banks are GTG.... Sorry the copius data below does not support your statements.
I commonly sourced OP's / articles like "The Good, The Bad & The Ugly" numerous times. So that's 2 out of three still that are not real positive just in the OP's/articles' title. Hence my opinion of we're not out of it yet by a long shot like mainstream media would have us believe. As I mentioned, I consider myself "informed" at least better than average.
I still protect CEO's/CFO's/Presidents of Banks & Corporations at times. I hear the the candid conversations in vehicles, restaurants, meetings etc. The contents of those conversations have NOT been upbeat, in fact far from it. I understand the need to be positive & I am a Half full glass guy BUT I'm also pragmatic and a realist.
The general gist of the sources when you extract the core items are:
The Banking Industry is SLOWLY getting better from what it was. SO what, it was a disaster, a terminal/caustic/toxic/Def Con 2.0 train wreck at best & the other info to glean in a nutshell was that we are not out of the woods yet by any stretch. I took a cross section of Industry type OP's & articles. Tried to avoid mainstream media for obvious reasons. One can make an argument about any number of credibility issues these days. Heck look at the SCOTUS. Ever seen it so FUBAR ? Look at the recent "Bank Run" in Greece. Oh no cause for concern, move right along.
While Bank failures have slowed down, still 24 failure or so in 2012 already this year & we are not even half way done, which while not epic comparatively to 2009, 2010 or 2011 BUT it is of concern obviously. Survival of the fittest no doubt BUT, a considerably higher attrition rate than 2004, 2005 & 2006. So it's not over by a long shot. At least the massive eviscerated hemorrhaging has apparently clotted. No more losses in the Billions lately. Nice to see they applied pressure (ah hummm TARP/Quantitative Easing/Capital Infusion by printing more $ in reality) to get it to at least clot. ;-/
http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/banklist.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_U.S._bank_failures
Even this one below says that the "over all health of Banks" have not rebounded & it was positive.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/28/markets/fdic_bank_list/index.htm
http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/27/pf/customers_big_banks/index.htm?iid=EAL
http://www.bankdirector.com/analyst-forum/state-of-the-banking-industry-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/
http://www.bankdirector.com/index.php/magazine/archives/2nd-quarter-2012/what-is-good-and-bad-about-the-cfpb/
http://www.investorplace.com/2012/03/federal-reserve-stress-tests-jpm-dividend-citi/
http://www.uab.edu/business/inthenews/767-massive-bank-consolidation-on-horizon-iberia-bank-ceo-tells-uab-crowd
http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/areworstbad-loans-over-for-banking-industry_703665.html
http://news.yahoo.com/bank-americas-no-good-very-bad-enablers-170931303.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/nov/02/failed-banks-map-us
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AonYZs4MzlZbdDZWUFNnMHBPUWNzalNQcUNVZkpMTEE&hl=en#gid=0
Sorry if your not feeling warm & fuzzy after this, as it's not personal at all. Trust is the foundation of all relationships & it's going to be a while before I can trust Banking Professionals, if ever. Why because they collectively along w/ help from greedy politicians etc. ruined that for me et alia for some time to come. Sorry, I'm not drinking that Koolaid again....
Oh & you can kiss the concepts of "Phantom Equity" or "Blue Sky Equity goodbye" for the average American now. The game is so rigged for the time being only "the Elite's" kids/families are going to be set up for the most part w/ a few exceptions. You see I do understand economics or at least past concepts like Capitolism, Free Market or Economy of Scale etc. Considering the US has had the most Bankruptcies ever in it's history, it will be interesting & take some time for the Fair Issac Credit/Corporation Origination Score (FICO) to get back for most people. Which means people can't hedge/leverage to become something better for themselves or improve their lives, as in middle class or take vacations, nice gifts for wife, family, kids, or even more Guns ;-/. It means austerity for most middle-class Americans bottom line....Pretty stupid ain't I ?
I think you misread my post because you have just proved my point. That is why I prompted you to do your own research.
If you go back and read my post, I say nothing to the effect of "the recession is over."
I agree 100% that the banking industry is SLOWLY getting better after being a complete train wreck. Owners of large banks, not small banks/business, were the greedy ones and they are part of the reason we got into a hole.
Well done my friend. All I am trying to say is that we are not going to have a complete financial meltdown in 2.5 years because thing are slowly getting better which you seem to agree with.
It accomplishes putting a wayward industry on notice that their creative accounting is no longer tolerable. That whether you're a good one or a bad one, you will still suffer the scorn your industry earned. I worked for a large regional bank for four and a half years, so I'm aware of how they operate. I wasn't exactly impressed with their honesty.
I notice you've answered none of the most recent questions. If you expect to have any credibility whatsoever on the subject, you'd best get busy! :)
First of all, why do you think I have all night to answer every question I am asked on a gun forum?
Large banks and small banks are completely different, I am not impressed with the honesty of large banks either so it looks like we are on the same page there. Read my last post and you will see that all I am trying to say is we aren't going to have a complete financial meltdown in 2.5 years.
VooDoo6Actual
05-19-12, 00:47
Fair enough.
I probaby was incorrect by making the comment & nexus that the "recession is over" vs. your comments sic "These are all signs of economic recovery. Cities like Houston are doing so well that they don't even know there is a recession."
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008–2012_global_recession). I'll own that one.
Conversely, you can't disprove it won't happen either.
I certainly hope your right regarding timeline or not at all.
Whilst you work in your realm, I too have a realm. The vibe/street buzz says different. So does history/trends, especially since the World is more financially interdependent. The other distractions/diversions are what has my hackles up. This is anecdotal. I always trust my intincts now & they are pinged for a reason. Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt.
Wanna bet if G8 leaders will let Greece leave the EURO ? I say HELL NO they won't....Banking Cartel wants financial interconnectedness for CONTROL & a part of the VIG.
Stay safe/Namaste
All I am trying to say is that we are not going to have a complete financial meltdown in 2.5 years because thing are slowly getting better which you seem to agree with.
I think that you are missing the point that a LARGE part of the trouble that we're in and the trouble that we're headed for (if something doesn't change) is largely based on the debt that our government has and is accumulating. And to exacerbate the problem there's: the nanny state that they have created, the manufacturing that has been extinguished in this country, the HUGE trade deficit, unemployment ect., ect., ect.
The banking issue is just that....just ANOTHER issue that has been a problem, and still is, whether its headed in the right direction or not.
Who really knows when, or if, anything of the magnitude of a meltdown could occur. But I tend to watch history and trends and try to cut all the bullsh*t the MSM and others try to feed you. History and trends tell us that if something doesn't change, we "could" go the way that Greece is going right now. Period. Don't know why that's so hard to understand...unless you've bought into what the MSM has fed you and have your head in the sand.
I think that you are missing the point that a LARGE part of the trouble that we're in and the trouble that we're headed for (if something doesn't change) is largely based on the debt that our government has and is accumulating. And to exacerbate the problem there's: the nanny state that they have created, the manufacturing that has been extinguished in this country, the HUGE trade deficit, unemployment ect., ect., ect.
The banking issue is just that....just ANOTHER issue that has been a problem, and still is, whether its headed in the right direction or not.
Who really knows when, or if, anything of the magnitude of a meltdown could occur. But I tend to watch history and trends and try to cut all the bullsh*t the MSM and others try to feed you. History and trends tell us that if something doesn't change, we "could" go the way that Greece is going right now. Period. Don't know why that's so hard to understand...unless you've bought into what the MSM has fed you and have your head in the sand.
This. It's more than just banks. No one gives a shit whether banks are getting better, our country is not getting itself out of debt. With skyrocketing debt, there are a lot of negative consequences. The problem in Greece is debt and no way to get out from under it.
What do banks offer us under the circumstances? Debt. :(
Mo_Zam_Beek
05-19-12, 12:13
Couple of points worth noting on the matter - all things are local until they are not.
In general people tend to measure the economy by what they see around them. This is particularly true in the case of the our nation which is largely inhabited by mindless masses who get their news spoon fed to them by major media.
It isn't local when influences from the general scheme have a direct and immediate impact on the local econ. The last time this happened was in 2008. However since then we have been building an insidious debt burden which will have a direct impact in the decades to follow - if we make it that far.
Regarding banks: what seems to be lost on some is the interconnectedness of the world's financial system. To parse the system and say one is good and the other is bad when they all run off of the fractional reserve system is disingenuous.
More concerning for those paying attention are stories that keep popping up like these:
- The 5 biggest US banks control the equivalence of 56% of the US econ
- Derivatives are largely private transactions and thus aren't well quantified (I have seen several reports that estimate $100T globally)
- Bank runs are happening now in Greece and Spain
- This week it was reported that the biggest banks are pushing CDS to insure against default of Spanish banks out the front door, and pushing them as investments out the back door to suckers (just like the mortgage mess)
- The ratings agency has cut Spain to one notch above the absolute lowest rating for a Nation state
- Barry is meeting with Euro leaders now effectively saying - don't worry we'll foot the bill
Again due to the interconnectedness of the system from the local level to the global level, the potential for all of this to come tumbling down truly does exist.
Good luck
Mo_Zam_Beek
05-19-12, 12:31
The mortgage crisis came out of Fannie may and Freddie Mac giving out loans that could not be paid off because our government told them to. Also, there is a massive difference between large an small banks and people tend to lump them all into the same category.
Categorically an oversimplified, and therefore false statement.
You may want to start with this book - it is an enjoyable read from a former bond trader at Salomon Bothers (the good folks that invented the mortgage backed bond). In his book The Big Short -http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Short-Doomsday-Machine/dp/0393072231 he covers it from every angle and it is much more complicated than Fanny and Freddy - in fact, Fanny and Freddy weren't much more than a byline in the big picture since they were neither the source of, nor the guarantor for the investor on the majority of mortgages during the run up.
Then you may want to read The Creature from Jekyll Island
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_9?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=the+creature+from+jekyll+island&sprefix=The+creat%2Cstripbooks%2C208
Good luck
Yeah it has to do with government debt. But who is going to collect on that debt? NO ONE.
Why? Because the rest of the world will be hit just as hard or harder, especially the owners (china) and they don't want that to happen.
Do you really think that countries will continue to lend to the US as our public debt approaches 120% of GDP (currently we are at $11T public debt with another $4.7 intergovernmental holdings vs a 14T GDP)?
Well I work in banking and I think Mr Coburn is full of shit and is trying to instill fear of Obama by making that statement.
In a nut shell, good loans are increasing, banks are being bought and sold at a higher rate, and inflation is taking place. These are all signs of economic recovery. Cities like Houston are doing so well that they don't even know there is a recession.
All the people who think everything is going to collapse into anarchy in a couple years are ****ing stupid and don't know a damn thing about economics.
Really? I'd like to know your thoughts on central banking and their destructive power of a nations purchasing power of their currency and then ultimately their economy. How about the Fed, our prior central banks and the depressions we had in the 1700s and 1800s? The founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Jackson certainly knew their history.
How about the fractional reserve banking system?
Fiat money backed by nothing but the full faith and credit of the US Government :rolleyes: ?
The quantitative easing, monetizing of our debt?
The IMF and the World Bank and the destruction they've contributed to in Africa? What's a loaf of bread in Zimbabwe today?$55,000,000,000,000?
Study any history? Read any books on those subjects and entities?
Or did you swallow all the bullshit that's taught in higher education:rolleyes:, hook, line and sinker?
While I agree a collapse might not happen, but it's not because everything is ok. It's because nobody knows real economics and economic history, just the bullshit spood fed to them by higher education and the nightly news allowing a continual kick of the can that leads to inflation. Been grocery shopping lately? Everything is more expensive, we're paying more for less, the government should do something :alcoholic:
Well I don't know what "more loans are going thru" means because I didn't say that.
Your opinion is not totally ****ed up, only partially ****ed up an it is clear that you get all your information from the news.
The mortgage crisis came out of Fannie may and Freddie Mac giving out loans that could not be paid off because our government told them to. Also, there is a massive difference between large an small banks and people tend to lump them all into the same category.
You are WAY undereducated on the subject to have a a qualified opinion on it.
I was in the real estate appraisal business in 2005 right after the sandbox. In my opinion it began there. Mortgage companies I dealt with shopped around for appraisals until they could get unqualified buyers qualified with higher appraisals.
That problem was twofold: 1. people bought houses they couldn't afford. 2. Houses were overvalued by appraisers and due to the economic law of supply and demand . The downward trend in housing was a correction, not a slump due to the economy. Sorry to say for any of you that purchased a home during the bubble, but for most of you, your home ISN'T worth what you paid for it. You bought into a bubble.
Really? I'd like to know your thoughts on central banking and their destructive power of a nations purchasing power of their currency and then ultimately their economy. How about the Fed, our prior central banks and the depressions we had in the 1700s and 1800s? The founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Jackson certainly knew their history.
How about the fractional reserve banking system?
Fiat money backed by nothing but the full faith and credit of the US Government :rolleyes: ?
The quantitative easing, monetizing of our debt?
The IMF and the World Bank and the destruction they've contributed to in Africa? What's a loaf of bread in Zimbabwe today?$55,000,000,000,000?
Study any history? Read any books on those subjects and entities?
Or did you swallow all the bullshit that's taught in higher education:rolleyes:, hook, line and sinker?
While I agree a collapse might not happen, but it's not because everything is ok. It's because nobody knows real economics and economic history, just the bullshit spood fed to them by higher education and the nightly news allowing a continual kick of the can that leads to inflation. Been grocery shopping lately? Everything is more expensive, we're paying more for less, the government should do something :alcoholic:
I was in the real estate appraisal business in 2005 right after the sandbox. In my opinion it began there. Mortgage companies I dealt with shopped around for appraisals until they could get unqualified buyers qualified with higher appraisals.
That problem was twofold: 1. people bought houses they couldn't afford. 2. Houses were overvalued by appraisers and due to the economic law of supply and demand . The downward trend in housing was a correction, not a slump due to the economy. Sorry to say for any of you that purchased a home during the bubble, but for most of you, your home ISN'T worth what you paid for it. You bought into a bubble.
Actually, I think you're mostly right. I think It began a little earlier..1999, Bill Clinton, and the Senate (with only 3 vote against, Note both Rep. and Dem. voted for this,and they could'nt get their votes in fast enough) Repeal the Glass-Steagall act...Thus allowing any commerical bank to play with the big boys (Investment Banks) on Wall street. (Goldman-Sachs, Lehman, etc,) after all, if they lost all the depositers money, FDIC would cover it right? How could it go wrong? :sarcastic:
I think everyone knows how well that worked out...
Couple of points worth noting on the matter - all things are local until they are not.
In general people tend to measure the economy by what they see around them. This is particularly true in the case of the our nation which is largely inhabited by mindless masses who get their news spoon fed to them by major media.
It isn't local when influences from the general scheme have a direct and immediate impact on the local econ. The last time this happened was in 2008. However since then we have been building an insidious debt burden which will have a direct impact in the decades to follow - if we make it that far.
Regarding banks: what seems to be lost on some is the interconnectedness of the world's financial system. To parse the system and say one is good and the other is bad when they all run off of the fractional reserve system is disingenuous.
More concerning for those paying attention are stories that keep popping up like these:
- The 5 biggest US banks control the equivalence of 56% of the US econ
- Derivatives are largely private transactions and thus aren't well quantified (I have seen several reports that estimate $100T globally)
- Bank runs are happening now in Greece and Spain
- This week it was reported that the biggest banks are pushing CDS to insure against default of Spanish banks out the front door, and pushing them as investments out the back door to suckers (just like the mortgage mess)
- The ratings agency has cut Spain to one notch above the absolute lowest rating for a Nation state
- Barry is meeting with Euro leaders now effectively saying - don't worry we'll foot the bill
Again due to the interconnectedness of the system from the local level to the global level, the potential for all of this to come tumbling down truly does exist.
Good luck
Heres an estimate of 220T for the derivitatives market for just the top banks. I've read estimates in the 600T range and one estimate as high a 1 quadrillion for the total. Regardless what the amount is, it's more than the world GDP. The 2.5B loss by JP Morgan is barely a drop in a 5 gallon bucket.
http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/derivatives/bank_exposure.html
The 2.5B loss by JP Morgan is barely a drop in a 5 gallon bucket
Even better is the $38.5 billion that con-gress struggled to cut last year.
Do you really think that countries will continue to lend to the US as our public debt approaches 120% of GDP (currently we are at $11T public debt with another $4.7 intergovernmental holdings vs a 14T GDP)?
I've never seen it broken down like that. I thought it was all public debt. Whats a good source for that?
If the can keeps getting kicked down the road, sooner or later, something is bound to break. Greece just did it again (June elections) all the while giving the EU the finger and demanding a bailout.
I've never seen it broken down like that. I thought it was all public debt. Whats a good source for that?
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np
Mo_Zam_Beek
05-19-12, 23:07
Heres an estimate of 220T for the derivitatives market for just the top banks. I've read estimates in the 600T range and one estimate as high a 1 quadrillion for the total. Regardless what the amount is, it's more than the world GDP. The 2.5B loss by JP Morgan is barely a drop in a 5 gallon bucket.
http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/derivatives/bank_exposure.html
Yowzer.....
At the risk of preaching to the choir for many here, just to make sure we are all on the same page:
After 2008 America said 'no more too big to fail' and gave birth to Dodd / Frank which was portrayed as meaningful financial reform. It wasn't. Now we have a situation where the top 5 US banks control the equivalent of 56% of the econ and globally we are more interconnected than ever before. If one of these top 5 US banks starts to wobble - that represents 11.2% of total US econ - or about the GDP of the state of CA. To big to fail has been institutionalized.
The JP losses while small are indicative of the fact that it is business as usual on WS. Moreover, pushing credit default swaps (CDS) on Spanish debt (effectively junk) to pump up the earnings of the banks as entities, and then pushing the CDS instruments out the back to investors is exactly what happened in the mortgage mess. The banks creating these default swaps do not ultimately have the cash reserves to pay off the 'insurance' in the event of chained defaults. This is the exact reason why AIG was bailed out in 2008.
Greeks are rebelling in part because the banks came to Greek politicians who were not savvy enough to fully understand what the bankers proposed - we can lower you borrowing costs with a derivative in the form of an interest rate swap which would work, providing a series of factors remained constant. However the only people in the room that understood that there was no way these factors could remain constant were the bankers. As such the borrowing cost exploded. This in turn made the Greek people responsible for the debt.
Again, the nature of derivatives is that they are largely a private transaction and therefore difficult to quantify. Understand that many municipalities engaged in effectively the same thing as Greece, and we could potentially have significant muni bond failures here.
America - how is it different? Consider that any time a US bank creates an obligation - they are doing so in US dollars that ultimately come from the FED. If a private obligation is deemed to big to fail and the debt is nationalized (bail out), then the US tax payer is now the responsible party. Again - there was no meaningful reform under Dodd / Frank.
The US Government has a monopoly of the use of force, and the IRS is the taxing entity that pays the debt service to the FED. The FED is a private entity.
The scary part - depending on how tight your tin foil is wrapped, is when you start to look at the series of legislation, executive orders, field manuals that have been made public that in essence give the US Gov the power to declare martial law, round up, detain, and 're-educate' or even kill US citizens; take over all facets of the chain of production, food and water, transportation in the event of war, the run up to war, or time of emergency.
In essence, 50% of the people are financial care takers to the other 50% of the people right now. Arguably, the number one role of government is to maintain order in a time of crisis.
Only the dumbest of the dumb could believe that we can continue to kick the can down the road indefinitely. At minimum, we should expect to see a form of resetting of the financial system that includes replacement of the US Dollar as the world's reserve currency. The world is sick of the US exporting our inflation as a strategy to assist us finance our personal and corporate lifestyle.
Good luck
^ Agreed. 110%
The big banks now understand that they will be bailed out indefinitely. They are capable of bringing this economy to its knees.
The effect this has had on their executives is to bet BIG, take on massive risks. Because its win-win. If the bets pay out, the banks win big. If the bets fail, the treasury or the Fed or both will take those losses off their books, because they're too big to fail, and failure means collapse.
The mega banks have been emboldened. Failure that is rewarded is a guarantee of further failure.
We should have never allowed the repeal of Glass-Steagal
VooDoo6Actual
05-20-12, 01:35
It's even worse than that when you play it out, the FED can continue printing the US currency to sustain/infuse capitol/control as long as it wants until it is given "the word" not to or World Wide confidence in US dollar wanes etc....kaboomey It's had plenty of samples from past economic crisis to draw from & study. All primed & ready as they align the World's Chess Board.
It can invest in "MIC" (which is @ least 20-40 years ahead these days) for it's benefit for control/power which is what it has been doing...
All concatenated by US currency & the commissions that govern them. A Financial "choke point". NATO/UN is the enforcement arm of this ideology.
The "G8 Summit" in Chicago is ALL about NATO/Police State vibe that is why so much presence & the "Dog & Pony show"....
Yowzer.....
At the risk of preaching to the choir for many here, just to make sure we are all on the same page:
After 2008 America said 'no more too big to fail' and gave birth to Dodd / Frank which was portrayed as meaningful financial reform. It wasn't. Now we have a situation where the top 5 US banks control the equivalent of 56% of the econ and globally we are more interconnected than ever before. If one of these top 5 US banks starts to wobble - that represents 11.2% of total US econ - or about the GDP of the state of CA. To big to fail has been institutionalized.
The JP losses while small are indicative of the fact that it is business as usual on WS. Moreover, pushing credit default swaps (CDS) on Spanish debt (effectively junk) to pump up the earnings of the banks as entities, and then pushing the CDS instruments out the back to investors is exactly what happened in the mortgage mess. The banks creating these default swaps do not ultimately have the cash reserves to pay off the 'insurance' in the event of chained defaults. This is the exact reason why AIG was bailed out in 2008.
Greeks are rebelling in part because the banks came to Greek politicians who were not savvy enough to fully understand what the bankers proposed - we can lower you borrowing costs with a derivative in the form of an interest rate swap which would work, providing a series of factors remained constant. However the only people in the room that understood that there was no way these factors could remain constant were the bankers. As such the borrowing cost exploded. This in turn made the Greek people responsible for the debt.
Again, the nature of derivatives is that they are largely a private transaction and therefore difficult to quantify. Understand that many municipalities engaged in effectively the same thing as Greece, and we could potentially have significant muni bond failures here.
America - how is it different? Consider that any time a US bank creates an obligation - they are doing so in US dollars that ultimately come from the FED. If a private obligation is deemed to big to fail and the debt is nationalized (bail out), then the US tax payer is now the responsible party. Again - there was no meaningful reform under Dodd / Frank.
The US Government has a monopoly of the use of force, and the IRS is the taxing entity that pays the debt service to the FED. The FED is a private entity.
The scary part - depending on how tight your tin foil is wrapped, is when you start to look at the series of legislation, executive orders, field manuals that have been made public that in essence give the US Gov the power to declare martial law, round up, detain, and 're-educate' or even kill US citizens; take over all facets of the chain of production, food and water, transportation in the event of war, the run up to war, or time of emergency.
In essence, 50% of the people are financial care takers to the other 50% of the people right now. Arguably, the number one role of government is to maintain order in a time of crisis.
Only the dumbest of the dumb could believe that we can continue to kick the can down the road indefinitely. At minimum, we should expect to see a form of resetting of the financial system that includes replacement of the US Dollar as the world's reserve currency. The world is sick of the US exporting our inflation as a strategy to assist us finance our personal and corporate lifestyle.
Good luck
Exactly, when you look around at our standard of living, most of it, financed by massive amounts of debt that the rest of the world is paying for since we can export most of our inflation as the reserve currency. My generation (under 30), my children and grand children will pay dearly when it all collapses. I've done the best I've can to not buy into our current standard of living the sheeple take for granted. They have no idea the magnitude of the financial hurricane headed for our coast.
Exactly, when you look around at our standard of living, most of it, financed by massive amounts of debt that the rest of the world is paying for since we can export most of our inflation as the reserve currency. My generation (under 30), my children and grand children will pay dearly when it all collapses. I've done the best I've can to not buy into our current standard of living the sheeple take for granted. They have no idea the magnitude of the financial hurricane headed for our coast.
In alot of ways, I envy groups like the Amish... They have shunned the modern way of living, live a debt-free life as possible, most outright own the land they farm, can their own food, slaughter their own livestock, and when the crash comes, It'll just be another day to them. They all stick together, help each other, and could easily go to a barter system in lieu of cash..and most of them own firearms (including AR's, AK's) I would'nt want to live that way myself,(there are alot of downsides) But they are probably better prepared to survive what's coming than most of us..
In alot of ways, I envy groups like the Amish... They have shunned the modern way of living, live a debt-free life as possible, most outright own the land they farm, can their own food, slaughter their own livestock, and when the crash comes, It'll just be another day to them. They all stick together, help each other, and could easily go to a barter system in lieu of cash..and most of them own firearms (including AR's, AK's) I would'nt want to live that way myself,(there are alot of downsides) But they are probably better prepared to survive what's coming than most of us..
I agree about their ability for self sustainment, however it appears that they will be sitting ducks for looters, as they believe that Jesus’ followers are to be nonviolent, and they forbid self-defense as well as entering the armed forces. (http://www2.etown.edu/amishstudies/Government.asp) So ironically their biggest fatal flaw may turn out to be their naive and suicidal notion that they shouldn't be responsible for their own self-defense.
Mo_Zam_Beek
05-20-12, 11:08
Yeah it has to do with government debt. But who is going to collect on that debt? NO ONE.
Why? Because the rest of the world will be hit just as hard or harder, especially the owners (china) and they don't want that to happen.
Actually it primes the pump for a significant war.
Good luck
Yowzer.....
At the risk of preaching to the choir for many here, just to make sure we are all on the same page:
After 2008 America said 'no more too big to fail' and gave birth to Dodd / Frank which was portrayed as meaningful financial reform. It wasn't. Now we have a situation where the top 5 US banks control the equivalent of 56% of the econ and globally we are more interconnected than ever before. If one of these top 5 US banks starts to wobble - that represents 11.2% of total US econ - or about the GDP of the state of CA. To big to fail has been institutionalized.
The JP losses while small are indicative of the fact that it is business as usual on WS. Moreover, pushing credit default swaps (CDS) on Spanish debt (effectively junk) to pump up the earnings of the banks as entities, and then pushing the CDS instruments out the back to investors is exactly what happened in the mortgage mess. The banks creating these default swaps do not ultimately have the cash reserves to pay off the 'insurance' in the event of chained defaults. This is the exact reason why AIG was bailed out in 2008.
Greeks are rebelling in part because the banks came to Greek politicians who were not savvy enough to fully understand what the bankers proposed - we can lower you borrowing costs with a derivative in the form of an interest rate swap which would work, providing a series of factors remained constant. However the only people in the room that understood that there was no way these factors could remain constant were the bankers. As such the borrowing cost exploded. This in turn made the Greek people responsible for the debt.
Again, the nature of derivatives is that they are largely a private transaction and therefore difficult to quantify. Understand that many municipalities engaged in effectively the same thing as Greece, and we could potentially have significant muni bond failures here.
America - how is it different? Consider that any time a US bank creates an obligation - they are doing so in US dollars that ultimately come from the FED. If a private obligation is deemed to big to fail and the debt is nationalized (bail out), then the US tax payer is now the responsible party. Again - there was no meaningful reform under Dodd / Frank.
The US Government has a monopoly of the use of force, and the IRS is the taxing entity that pays the debt service to the FED. The FED is a private entity.
The scary part - depending on how tight your tin foil is wrapped, is when you start to look at the series of legislation, executive orders, field manuals that have been made public that in essence give the US Gov the power to declare martial law, round up, detain, and 're-educate' or even kill US citizens; take over all facets of the chain of production, food and water, transportation in the event of war, the run up to war, or time of emergency.
In essence, 50% of the people are financial care takers to the other 50% of the people right now. Arguably, the number one role of government is to maintain order in a time of crisis.
Only the dumbest of the dumb could believe that we can continue to kick the can down the road indefinitely. At minimum, we should expect to see a form of resetting of the financial system that includes replacement of the US Dollar as the world's reserve currency. The world is sick of the US exporting our inflation as a strategy to assist us finance our personal and corporate lifestyle.
Good luck
Agreed and good post.
^ Agreed. 110%
The big banks now understand that they will be bailed out indefinitely. They are capable of bringing this economy to its knees.
The effect this has had on their executives is to bet BIG, take on massive risks. Because its win-win. If the bets pay out, the banks win big. If the bets fail, the treasury or the Fed or both will take those losses off their books, because they're too big to fail, and failure means collapse.
The mega banks have been emboldened. Failure that is rewarded is a guarantee of further failure.
We should have never allowed the repeal of Glass-Steagal
When a big bank fails and comes looking for a handout, they need to be carved up like a thanksgiving turkey for their troubles. If the .gov can break up Ma Bell, surely they can break up a huge conglomerate that's irresponsibly run and threatens the entire economy. :(
Belmont31R
05-20-12, 16:14
Very odd structure we have now...a mixture of communism and crony capitalism.
When a big bank fails and comes looking for a handout, they need to be carved up like a thanksgiving turkey for their troubles. If the .gov can break up Ma Bell, surely they can break up a huge conglomerate that's irresponsibly run and threatens the entire economy. :(
One would think so, Trouble is, those same huge conglomerates probably have members of congress,or the senate as share holders.. When one looks at Obama's advisors, How many came from Goldman-Sachs?
Very odd structure we have now...a mixture of communism and crony capitalism.
Some actually describe it as a fascist economy (http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/09/obamas_fascist_economy.html).
Mo_Zam_Beek
05-20-12, 20:59
It can invest in "MIC" (which is @ least 20-40 years ahead these days) for it's benefit for control/power which is what it has been doing...
.
Spoon please - MIC, I have to assume your not talking about Mortgage Investment Companies - so what are you talking about here.
TIA
VooDoo6Actual
05-20-12, 22:10
Spoon please - MIC, I have to assume your not talking about Mortgage Investment Companies - so what are you talking about here.
TIA
MIC = Military Industrial Complex (US Gov. Ordered 55 Drones posted here on M4C & people just glossed over it, it's in plain sight)
Approx. 80% of the "Black" (DARPA etc.) budget the general public has NO idea. They are building a Technocracy etc. This is why they are just printing $ as it has truly hit epic quantum proportions.
Here's a recent order for 5 drones @1.7 Billion :
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/20/northropgrumman-nato-idUSN9E7G301320120520
This article makes reference to the 55 drones but it is being obfuscated & hidden etc.
The net "SCRUBBERS" have been busy lately....
http://www.unmanned.co.uk/unmanned-vehicles-news/unmanned-aerial-vehicles-uav-news/northrop-grumman-strives-to-reverse-global-hawk-cuts/
Where do people think NATO gets it's funding from ? The average American has NO idea.
When you start connecting the dots.....
Mo_Zam_Beek
05-20-12, 22:48
Thank you.
Back up to speed now.
Good luck
Mark your calendars for June 17.
On that day, Greeks will in all likelihood elect a unified government of Syriza leftists, who will reject further austerity and back out of the Euro. Runs on Banks are already starting to happen, because smarter Greeks know that Euros will be worth a lot more than whatever Greek currency replaces it.
Anyway, that day, those elections, will determine how bad the European crisis will get. And if it gets bad, there will be blowback upon us.
Mark your calendars for June 17.
On that day, Greeks will in all likelihood elect a unified government of Syriza leftists, who will reject further austerity and back out of the Euro. Runs on Banks are already starting to happen, because smarter Greeks know that Euros will be worth a lot more than whatever Greek currency replaces it.
Anyway, that day, those elections, will determine how bad the European crisis will get. And if it gets bad, there will be blowback upon us.
How selfish. Voting for the socialists and taking your euros out of the bank instead of fixing what's wrong so your children actually have a future. We'll see something similar here due to SS and Medicare. Instead of screwing the younger generations, how about forming a group to sue the politicians that spent your Medicare money and make them pay out of pocket.
How selfish. Voting for the socialists and taking your euros out of the bank instead of fixing what's wrong so your children actually have a future. We'll see something similar here due to SS and Medicare. Instead of screwing the younger generations, how about forming a group to sue the politicians that spent your Medicare money and make them pay out of pocket.
Or do what Iceland did. Storm the banks and declare that the debt doesn't belong to the people. Tell them they'll never get a dime of it.
davidjinks
05-21-12, 21:28
The red part is what's really scary. I've heard it as a "Jog" on banks at this point. Give it another 3 months and it'll be a straight up sprint.
It's amazing how this crap gets glossed over in our press. Not many people even know what that phrase means…"Run on banks". Hell, not many people even know what's going on in Europe. Many others just brush it off and say it's not going to affect the US.
Between the FED, IMF, World Bank, NATO, UN, US and Europe…We're pretty much ****ed.
Mark your calendars for June 17.
On that day, Greeks will in all likelihood elect a unified government of Syriza leftists, who will reject further austerity and back out of the Euro. Runs on Banks are already starting to happen, because smarter Greeks know that Euros will be worth a lot more than whatever Greek currency replaces it.
Anyway, that day, those elections, will determine how bad the European crisis will get. And if it gets bad, there will be blowback upon us.
Mo_Zam_Beek
05-22-12, 01:11
It is a honest statement to say that runs are occurring in Greece and Spain now. It is likely that Italy is next.
It very possible that we will see the EU unwind.
The impact of all of this is certainly not known to persons like myself and likely not completely by anyone, simply due to all of the moving pieces.
Where I think it becomes very grey is how much has (will) the FED either directly or indirectly involve themselves in, and ultimately how much of that blows back on the tax payer. If it is diluted and the exposure of the taxpayer is limited, then potentially we fall back to our existing problem set - debt, structural problems within the Econ (exportation of manufacturing base without a replacement industry sector which creates middle class wage parity); Medicare, social security, top heavy age demographics; potential loss of WRC status, etc.. This problem set is already 3 dimensional, and there is no political will on the horizon to even put it in check, let alone cure it.
On the other hand if and when the EU unwinds it triggers an implosion to the interconnected system, my concern is less about having to refire the burners from scratch, as is an aggressive and expeditious move to a single global currency - with all that entails.
I am generally more inclined to think those in charge aren't sinister and smart, but instead compartmentalized, motivated by selfish greed, and not fully capable nor fully interested in seeing the big picture. However, if one were to take a hard look at a series of events that really started gaining velocity under Bush 1, one would have view what is going on today with a weary eye.
Good luck
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt
This was brought to my attention by SurvivalBlog.com's posting for today.
How the hell is Japan still functioning? 200% Debt-to-GDP ratio? Holy Moses
Any nation around 85% could quickly find themselves in trouble given the wrong circumstances. We are in trouble unless we go full power reverse and hard right rudder. This won't happen though because of a lack of education and thus a lack of political will by (a large majority of) the people of this country. We could climb out of the grave our leaders dug for us, but we will not. It's so sad to watch and very hard to explain.
Or do what Iceland did. Storm the banks and declare that the debt doesn't belong to the people. Tell them they'll never get a dime of it.
That would have my vote. Our only out without decades of servitude is a general default. Leave the banks holding the empty betting bags.
That would have my vote. Our only out without decades of servitude is a general default. Leave the banks holding the empty betting bags.
I can almost see the declaration up on billboards across the country:
"Dear Bankers,
We won't be paying back any of the $_____ trillion dollars that we allegedly owe you. And just in case you believe otherwise, a friendly reminder:
http://th05.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2010/195/2/4/Come_and_Take_It_by_darthdilbert.png
Off is the general direction we'd like you to ****.
Sincerely,
We the People of the United States of America.
davidjinks
05-22-12, 06:30
If we, Americans, decided to run on our banks; how long would it last, what kind of commitment do you think most Americans would have to actually do it and how long do you think it would take for the Fed to step up and force the Gov to close all the banks?
Personally, I think a run would last maybe 24 hours (If we're lucky) and then after that we'd be done. Considering that banks only have to cover 1% of their holdings (Money on the books), any way you slice it it would fail.
We, the tax payer would still be holding the bag at the end of the day.
All this crap is very bothersome. I'm definitely not a financial guru by any means, but how the hell did we even allow this shit to happen? What's the real way to fix it?
VooDoo6Actual
05-22-12, 08:28
If we, Americans, decided to run on our banks; how long would it last, what kind of commitment do you think most Americans would have to actually do it and how long do you think it would take for the Fed to step up and force the Gov to close all the banks?
Personally, I think a run would last maybe 24 hours (If we're lucky) and then after that we'd be done. Considering that banks only have to cover 1% of their holdings (Money on the books), any way you slice it it would fail.
We, the tax payer would still be holding the bag at the end of the day.
All this crap is very bothersome. I'm definitely not a financial guru by any means, but how the hell did we even allow this shit to happen? What's the real way to fix it?
People got lazy, complacent, comfy, self absorbed & distracted et alia.
This was discussed and processed at one of the Uber Think tanks that the FED/GOV owns called RAND Corp. In theory we pay for it as well because it's part of the budget. That theory is getting exposed for what it is. Some people cannot break out of the traditional paradigm of thinking. They have been conditioned for so long to think the way they have been conditioned to.
The best way to stop what is transpiring is to simply boycott/stop working under those conditions. That would be on a unprecedented world wide scale as well.
However, the chances of the masses figuring it out & codifying/galvanizing is .... Their research proves them right so far.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e225/teehee321/AlbertEinstein.jpg
If we, Americans, decided to run on our banks; how long would it last, what kind of commitment do you think most Americans would have to actually do it and how long do you think it would take for the Fed to step up and force the Gov to close all the banks?
Personally, I think a run would last maybe 24 hours (If we're lucky) and then after that we'd be done. Considering that banks only have to cover 1% of their holdings (Money on the books), any way you slice it it would fail.
We, the tax payer would still be holding the bag at the end of the day.
All this crap is very bothersome. I'm definitely not a financial guru by any means, but how the hell did we even allow this shit to happen? What's the real way to fix it?
Honestly, I don't know..I think the thing to do is to let the dollar bubble run it's course. This will end when it finally pops, worldwide confindence in the dollar evaporates, and the U.S. defaults on it's debt. This would be very painful..However it's the only way the Gov't, and the banking community will ever be forced to confront the truth..Defaulting would no doubt reek havoc on the economy..The Gov't would be forced to live within it's means. They would have to reduce it's size, by closing all the worthless agency's they created over the years. They (Gov't) would of course try to stall this as much as possible, because to them, this means giving up power. Of course SS, Medicaid-Medicare payments would have to be greatly reduced, or stopped altogether. Defense spending would also need to be greatly reduced. Other entitlements welfare, food stamps,etc, may have to be stopped..
On the bright side,If the Gov't was smart, default would give them a chance to do things differently..Reinstate the Glass Stegall act, put the dollar back on the gold standard, which in turn forces the Gov't to live within it's means. A much needed overhaul of the U.S. banking system, basically rein these bastards in,(like AIG, Goldman-Sachs The Fed itself) I 'm just thinking aloud here. But the reality is, the problems facing this country are complex, and to fix them, we need a Gov't with the guts needed to do it. Right now we have a gov't that is totally disfunctional, and as such, things will keep rolling along like they are, until the trainwreck of default hits. The bad thing about this is, many of us can see what's coming, but are unwilling passengers on the default express, with Obama and company, in the cab of the locomotive, pushing the throttle forward..
If anything, what happened in New Orleans during Katrina, gives us a glimse of how utterly incompetent the Gov't really is...Knowing that, I'd suggest to anyone to prepare for this as best you can, yourself. Because when default does come, people will be using dollar bills for toilet paper,because they probably could'nt afford to buy real toilet paper....
davidjinks
05-22-12, 09:42
Hasn't this been the goal for a long time now...
Devalue the US dollar
Crush the economy
Break the democracy
Realign with the "World"
Have one economy/currency/supreme leader
Hasn't this been the goal for a long time now...
Devalue the US dollar
Crush the economy
Break the democracy
Realign with the "World"
Have one economy/currency/supreme leader
Isn't that agenda also in Revelations?
davidjinks
05-22-12, 10:31
Well, if it's kingdoms they want...I'll shall be a king! ;)
Isn't that agenda also in Revelations?
Isn't that agenda also in Revelations?
The last two points, I would say yes...as for the first three, nowhere is the US mentioned in the Bible, much less Revelations. For those that believe the Bible, this should say something to you :eek:
And to just nip this in the bud, for those who don't believe the Bible, please don't turn this into a "religious" argument. We have a good thread going here and don't want it to get locked. For those who would like to discuss this at length, lets not use this thread for that. Create your own or go to PM's. What I have said above is all I will say on the matter in this thread.
Doc Safari
05-22-12, 11:24
There are many theories as to why the US is not mentioned in the Bible. I hate to see it characterized as "necessarily" that we are destroyed. It could simply be that we become so wedded to the New World Order that there is no distinction between us and the rest of the wicked world by the time of the end.
VooDoo6Actual
05-22-12, 20:02
Greece’s banking industry secretly gets €100 billion
http://rt.com/business/news/greece-banks-get-money-888/
Heck no they don't want them to leave....compounding the problem in the end.
RogerinTPA
05-22-12, 20:36
Greece’s banking industry secretly gets €100
billionhttp://rt.com/business/news/greece-banks-get-money-888/
Heck no they don't want them to leave....compounding the problem in the end.
Not entirely unexpected. It's not so different than the hundreds of billions secretly given to the major banks here during the bailouts, which was way way more that the few billion that was admitted publicly. It has to be secret or the neighbors or in our case, the citizenry would "flip the **** out".
If we, Americans, decided to run on our banks; how long would it last, what kind of commitment do you think most Americans would have to actually do it and how long do you think it would take for the Fed to step up and force the Gov to close all the banks?
Personally, I think a run would last maybe 24 hours (If we're lucky) and then after that we'd be done. Considering that banks only have to cover 1% of their holdings (Money on the books), any way you slice it it would fail.
We, the tax payer would still be holding the bag at the end of the day.
All this crap is very bothersome. I'm definitely not a financial guru by any means, but how the hell did we even allow this shit to happen? What's the real way to fix it?
If the time ever came for a bank run on the us dollar 1. It wouldn't be worth much for very long and 2. there wouldnt be many safe havens that are easily accessible except gold and silver or other tangible items, in which case, instead of waiting in line at a bank I'd be at a local dealer and be out with one swipe of a debit card or using part of the emergency cash stash.
It's a different story with Greece. The Euro will still have value compared to the drachma so their taking their Euros out of the bank. When we go down everybody goes down with us at which dollars will have a short life span of value. A couple days to a couple weeks before the masses figure out it really isn't worth shit.
We got here via bad education about economics, by design. We are well past the point of no return, by atleast 2 generations if not 3.
. . . the citizenry would "flip the **** out".
Yeah right. Nothing will wake this "sleeping giant"
Our ancestors were 1000x the men we are
I can almost see the declaration up on billboards across the country:
"Dear Bankers,
We won't be paying back any of the $_____ trillion dollars that we allegedly owe you. And just in case you believe otherwise, a friendly reminder:
http://th05.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2010/195/2/4/Come_and_Take_It_by_darthdilbert.png
Off is the general direction we'd like you to ****.
Sincerely,
We the People of the United States of America.
I love it:D
Mo_Zam_Beek
05-22-12, 23:56
Greece’s banking industry secretly gets €100 billion
http://rt.com/business/news/greece-banks-get-money-888/
Heck no they don't want them to leave....compounding the problem in the end.
When I read this morning I recalled what I read a couple of days ago. The article from a couple of days ago was talking about how if Greece were to pull out, they would be denied access to lines of credit stemming from the ECB and how this was making Greek politicians nervous.
When I read this article this morning I immediately thought of a few things:
A) This seems more like a bribe / it is a morphine drip to maintain the scheme
B) Who is really financing this? ECB or the FED?
C) I wonder about the integrity of Greece at this pivotable moment - if the populous wants a clean break and the powers that be don't, which way this one goes?
Good luck
I want a Gyro with Tzatziki sauce
VooDoo6Actual
05-23-12, 04:46
When I read this morning I recalled what I read a couple of days ago. The article from a couple of days ago was talking about how if Greece were to pull out, they would be denied access to lines of credit stemming from the ECB and how this was making Greek politicians nervous.
When I read this article this morning I immediately thought of a few things:
A) This seems more like a bribe / it is a morphine drip to maintain the scheme
B) Who is really financing this? ECB or the FED?
C) I wonder about the integrity of Greece at this pivotable moment - if the populous wants a clean break and the powers that be don't, which way this one goes?
Good luck
preaching to the choir brother..
Nice to see people are tracking
When I read this morning I recalled what I read a couple of days ago. The article from a couple of days ago was talking about how if Greece were to pull out, they would be denied access to lines of credit stemming from the ECB and how this was making Greek politicians nervous.
When I read this article this morning I immediately thought of a few things:
A) This seems more like a bribe / it is a morphine drip to maintain the scheme
B) Who is really financing this? ECB or the FED?
C) I wonder about the integrity of Greece at this pivotable moment - if the populous wants a clean break and the powers that be don't, which way this one goes?
Good luck
Everything I've seen in different business news articles suggests that Greece would be better off if they left the Eurozone..What the folks in Brussels are worried about, is other countries (Ireland, Spain, Italy,.France) getting the same idea..and thus they'll lose their jobs, and most importantly, power. The European Union is a failure..the only good idea they had was a common currency to be accepted throughout Europe..other than that, the whole EU thing with central control in Burssels, is chock full of dumb. The sooner the EU breaks up and each country goes back to their own currency, and economy, the sooner europe will break out of continuous recession...
Bit of a necropost but
This just in: the Greeks voted in a pro-austerity, pro-bailout agreement conservative majority to their parliament (129 seats). The ****-austerity-and-the-euro Syriza party didn't get a big enough number to carry out their plans (79 seats)
I don't know if this is good or bad. It's good for the near term, but by kicking the can down the road some more, I fear they're only making the inevitable that much worse.
What happens when you don't allow corrections is you perpetuate a mistake. It then goes from what would've been a painful period of readjustment to a catastrophic collapse. It's like choosing to avoid removing a malignant tumor because you're afraid of a little pain, and then instead, only worrying about treating the symptoms. Two things are going to happen: it's going to get harder and harder to treat the symptoms over time, and it'll get so bad that it'll kill you eventually.
So, what does this mean for us? Well, bailouts buy time. They buy time, at the expense of a much more horrific judgement day. Extra time to earn money and get situated for a collapse of the empire.
montanadave
06-18-12, 07:45
Anybody remember when you were a kid and you looked at the world and thought, "Well, it doesn't really make sense to me but these guys are the grownups and they know a lot more than me so they must know what they're doing?"
Then you grow up, look around at the people running things, and start thinking, "WTF? These guys are a bunch of ****ing hacks. They don't have a clue."
And a few years after that, the light comes on, you realize they know EXACTLY what they're doing, the whole thing is nothing more than a "run like hell and **** the hindmost" cluster****, and you're standing there with your dick in your hand.
Bit of a necropost but
This just in: the Greeks voted in a pro-austerity, pro-bailout agreement conservative majority to their parliament (129 seats). The ****-austerity-and-the-euro Syriza party didn't get a big enough number to carry out their plans (79 seats)
I don't know if this is good or bad. It's good for the near term, but by kicking the can down the road some more, I fear they're only making the inevitable that much worse.
What happens when you don't allow corrections is you perpetuate a mistake. It then goes from what would've been a painful period of readjustment to a catastrophic collapse. It's like choosing to avoid removing a malignant tumor because you're afraid of a little pain, and then instead, only worrying about treating the symptoms. Two things are going to happen: it's going to get harder and harder to treat the symptoms over time, and it'll get so bad that it'll kill you eventually.
So, what does this mean for us? Well, bailouts buy time. They buy time, at the expense of a much more horrific judgement day. Extra time to earn money and get situated for a collapse of the empire.
you're pretty much spot on..But don't forget we now have a couple of new players..Spain, and France..Spain's banking problems I'm afraid are going to be much bigger than expected, and their ecomony is about 3 largest in Europe, And then we have France...They just elected a socialist President, and now socialist parlament..and they already said they're going to lower retirement to 60, (from 62) and have also stated they want to make it almost impossible for companies to lay people off if they need to, as well as make as hard as they can for business's to close factorys..(from what I read, something about they'd have to sell the factory first, I don't quite understand) I give'em about 6 months and they'll be wanting bailed out, along with Greece, Spain, Ireland, Italy,Cyprus,(Who's left?) This whole "European Union" experiment has been a utter failure.. If the Germans, Swede's, Swiss, Finn's, Dane's, Norwgiean's were smart, they'd pull the plug on southern Europe and let them swim in their own shit... They'd find they could get along just fine without them...
Dirk Williams
06-18-12, 10:54
Far from out of the woods yet, Greece's election was at least in the right direction, which demonstrates in part that cooler calmer minds are prevailing there.
As for Spain and France and many others, one country goes they all go. France and Socialists are hand in hand historically. Nothing new there.
I don't know why this is a shock to anybody who had a basic US history class. The US has crossed this bridge many times in our past history.
I gotta believe that it well work out in the end. Until then Im just going to continue to store a few beans and bullets for a rainny day.
DW
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