View Full Version : Hk usp .45 or S&w m&p .45
So I recently got into handguns, been ar15 all my life but everyone needs a sidearm. I recently asked which caliber and got mainly 9mm because of ammo cosy, me being a noob to handguns, and modern bullets evening up firepower. But im a big boy, and wanted big bore, so I got both! I got a s&w m&p 9 coming so now I need my 45. The reason I went with s&w is I see them everywhere, range , classes, costa. Seems to be the new koolaid so im sipping it. My question is should I stick with smith for my 45 or change it up. Hks are the some of the best sh*t since sliced bread. This gun will be strick carry, home defense, and end of the world zombies or china invading. Now I know hk usp is quality, dependable, combat proven and should out live me if I buy brand new. But is it worth the extra cheddar? I know money should never be an object when its for something your putting your life and family life in but ive been told that the smith will do just as good job. So what you think, usp or m&p.
Magazine capacity doesnt matter I dont live in free america (new yorkistan):nono:
Also I know the Hk45 is the new and improved but also is expensive
M&p will be 570 and USP will be 772
Since you already have an M&P, stick with that system.
madisonsfinest
05-21-12, 20:26
Since you already have an M&P, stick with that system.
the best advice here
Thanks for the quick response guys. Now do you say I should stick with the m&p because im new to handguns it will be less confusing switching systems and better practice? Also DocGKR why do you think I should just get another 9 rather than 45? For ammo purposes and accesories?
Ive never owned an M&P, so I cant speak for it...
But my H&K USP 45 is hands down my favorite pistol. There are a few more rare pistols I have that Id never sell too, but I will literally hold on to this one for the rest of my life.
I tell everyone: if you can afford an H&K you will NOT be disappointed. If you dont want to spend $1200 on a pistol there are tons of great ~$500 options that won't let you down either. Its really a matter of what you want to spend, however there IS a reason H&Ks are x2+ more costly than all the other brands... :D
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj121/Blstr88/7324ec80.jpg
I would say HK. That thing has been around for nearly 20 years and it's still one of the most rugged weapons out there. If you were getting 2 handguns in teh same caliber, i'd say get a 2nd m&p since you'd already have mags etc. However since you're going with a different caliber, i say go for the HK. You can use the m&p for carry and HD. You can use the HK for when the zombies come.
How is the grip on the hk usp? Ive heard its like a block. I got average sized hands. Also why is your round backwords in your magazine?
The USP is a great gun, but Doc was dead on. Since you already have an M&P stick with that. The M&P is a great shooting .45.
How is the grip on the hk usp? Ive heard its like a block. I got average sized hands. Also why is your round backwords in your magazine?
It's an inside joke for anyone who's ever seen the ad that hk put out years ago. There was an ad in a magazine and the idiot photographer put the round in the mag backwards. Thus a new inside joke was born.
Can't really speak for the grip for anyone but myself. I wear XL-XXL gloves and the size is fine for me. But i also own a sig too which is also considered blocky as hell.
Another M&P9 or M&P45 makes more sense if you want to dedicate your training time to a single platform.
How is the grip on the hk usp? Ive heard its like a block. I got average sized hands. Also why is your round backwords in your magazine?
When I first laid eyes on the fullsize H&K USP I almost laughed at how huge it looked. I have small hands and didnt think for a second it would be comfortable in them. I was dead wrong. Its a large pistol, no doubt about that but the feel even in my small hands is superb.
There is also H&K USP Compacts available if you had your heart set on H&K but thought the fullsize was too large.
badness hit it on the head, its an H&K inside joke. If you get one you can take pictures when your magazine loaded backwards too :sarcastic:
In all seriouness though, Im not trying to talk you away from an M&P...there is obvious value to having the same platform for your 2 pistols, but for me I prefer having and shooting a variety of pistols. If you're looking to use them for serious training it might make sense to stick with two M&Ps, but if you just enjoy shooting and collecting its fun to have different guns. Just my $0.02!
The difference in price is something to consider as well. An H&K will run you $1000 at least, an M&P is down around the $500 or so range. If thats not an issue for you then good to go, but with a price difference like that its worth considering. H&K USP 45 mags are also about $40-$50 each new too. Im not sure what M&P mags cost, but I'd guess in the $25 range.
F-Trooper05
05-21-12, 21:52
You'll save yourself a lot of hassle and money if you avoid the childish collector phase that most of us have gone through (and some are still in) and just stick with one system.
Well damn, you guys arent helping ha ha. Everyone makes good points. I unserstand using the same system. And I will be training with both but the .45 will receive more training from classes since I plan for that to be my home and carry caliber. The m&p 9 I will train with as well but I got mainly for just shooting as ammo is cheapet. Decision decisions. im leaning toward.... Both. More advice please
Well damn, you guys arent helping ha ha. Everyone makes good points. I unserstand using the same system. And I will be training with both but the .45 will receive more training from classes since I plan for that to be my home and carry caliber. The m&p 9 I will train with as well but I got mainly for just shooting as ammo is cheapet. Decision decisions. im leaning toward.... Both. More advice please
Meh, I don't know what to tell you. Getting a .45 m&p is the most practical. however Since you're new to handguns, you won't really know what you like until you shoot all different kinds. I own 10 handguns. It wasn't until i owned 8 or 9 of them did I really know which two types of handguns that I really like. Those are 1911's and DA/SA.
That was exactly what I needed to hear. I dont know what il like so I should try different systems. Since the m&p is dao il get a sa/da hk. USP it is and if I like dao I can always add the lem trigger kit. Thanks badass, you have eased my mind:D
Normally I would steer you in the direction of Teutonic polymer, but in this case I am going to agree with most members here and say stick with the M&P since you already have one.
OR, Sell the M&P and go all HK.
That is a sexy pic Blster.
I agree with you. One system is much more practical. But my m&p is not here yet so I am not sure I will like it. Afte1 I have shot both enough I will make my decision and sell which ever and stick with one system. I will let you all know when I get them and post some pics at the range. Thanks for your help and input;)
I'd go with the USP45. It's a classic handgun and you gotta own at least one HK!! Not to mention it's utterly reliable, built like a tank, and accurate to boot.
so, basically you dont need advice, you need confirmation to buy new and different guns..
you should wait for your m&p9, practice shoot it. probably you can rent the m&p45 as well as the HK..shoot it before you buy it and shoot your m&p9 before thinking about getting a new one..
as you are new to handguns, it would be better to practice and invest money in 9mm rounds... the .45 rounds are more expensive.maybe after a while and learning the basics of handguns, get the 45..
change platform affect the proficient, if the trigger is different that could affect unless you only care shooting slow at the range.
I have a m&p9 and g19. most of the time at competition I use the m&p and when I start switching handguns between matches I start to screw it up. trigger, trigger reset, sight pictures.
I want a 45 but not for now.. and probably I'll get the m&p..
Gary1911A1
05-22-12, 09:33
I have both the M&P45 and the HK45 and between them would pick the M&P as I shoot it better due to a better grip, low bore axis, and a better trigger even out of the box. Add Apex Trigger Parts and the improvement is truly significant and worth every penny. Magazines are also about 1/2 and less and holsters are easier to find. Plus if you do have a problem S&W CS is the best and will pay shipping both ways.
I've shot both and settled on the M&P 45 Midsize. I love the grip and it is very accurate, reliable and even though ammo is relatively expensive magazines are a lot less expensive for the M&P than the H&K. If it were me though I would wait and shoot the 9mm M&P before purchasing an 45. That way you will know for sure if you like the M&P platform. Will save you money in the long run
Ive never owned an M&P, so I cant speak for it...
But my H&K USP 45 is hands down my favorite pistol. There are a few more rare pistols I have that Id never sell too, but I will literally hold on to this one for the rest of my life.
I tell everyone: if you can afford an H&K you will NOT be disappointed. If you dont want to spend $1200 on a pistol there are tons of great ~$500 options that won't let you down either. Its really a matter of what you want to spend, however there IS a reason H&Ks are x2+ more costly than all the other brands... :D
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj121/Blstr88/7324ec80.jpg
This^^^ when you want to get real serious about a handgun go with any HK!! Apex trigger's and all this not into but HK has the LEM or DA/SA which is what i shoot and do well. Just got a HK45 in and it's unreal with some Heine's i'm set. As far as mag. price's with HK the gun only cry once!! Quality and Extreme Engineering are not Cheap....
As I have stated numerous times before:
Before purchasing anything, be sure you have received high quality initial training. Then try to ensure ongoing practice sessions.
Don't purchase a lot of different firearms. After having gone through the juvenile collector stage of idiotically wasting money by purchasing one or two of every type of service pistol ever produced, I finally grew-up and realized it is far better to strive to master one quality pistol type, then be perpetually mediocre with many. I strongly recommend purchasing two or three identical pistols once you have decided upon the model that you plan to use, carry, and train with. I dedicate one pistol for carry after thoroughly vetting function with 1000 or so rounds through it. Another identical pistol is solely used for training--it is shot till it breaks with minimal cleaning or babying during its service life. If I am able to afford a third pistol, it serves as a back-up to the other two and usually sits in an easily accessible safe as a readily available personal defense weapon mounting an x300 light.
As also previously related (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=105741&page=2), while I normally would recommend a 9 mm, in states with illogical 10 rd mag limits, .45 ACP makes more sense.
To summarize, pick a pistol, get a couple of identical ones, shoot them for a decade or so trying to get at least 200 rds of quality practice shots downrange a week, then re-assess as needed.
I was one of those had to have the latest Sig guys until they started Building them here,
I bounced around with a Glock 30 after going through P220,P228,P230,P232,P239 for about 5 years the Longest i have ever had just one main carry pistol.But i hated the way the Glock felt in My hand Sold it and got a XD-45 didn't like it at all .
I got my first HK USP 45 compact from my dad as a christmas present . I finally found what i was looking for :D it goes with me every where now for over 4 years .
i have never fired a M&P So I can't really say anything about that .
But you can't go wrong with a HK I love mine so Of course I will say HK .But it is really up to you and your needs
Hogsgunwild
05-22-12, 14:05
This topic is such a can of worms as both are great guns. I own the midsize 45 M&P and the USP 45.
You are in a ten round max state. Why deal with the bulk of the huge and heavier USP for only ten rounds?
Even the ten round USP (H&K brand) magazines are around twice the price of the M&P mags.
As much as my USP is one of the few guns that I own that is always a treat to shoot (only equal to my M&P 45), I believe that everything about the M&P 45 is more refined and practical than the USP;
Ergonomics.
Conceal-ability.
Cost of magazines.
Availability of aftermarket sights.
Availability and cost of factory or aftermarket (armorers / gunsmiths)
customer support.
AS much as my HK USP 45 with a light LEM trigger is a great shooter, I give my M&P 45 with it's Apex Tactical Forward Set Sear and Trigger kit the nod as being better and more dummy proof for a relatively new shooter. The LEM is my choice for H&Ks over their DA/SA triggers but shooters have mixed feelings about them and I believe they require more dedication to become proficient with.
If you think that you may end up using this gun for serious defensive purposes, training and carrying it, then, especially since you will have the 9MM M&P, save your money on the H&K and it' magazines and buy the M&P. You'll save several hundred dollars right there and the money can go into ammo and training.
By the way, I can keep all 50 rounds in a box of ammo inside of the head of a silhouette target at 25 yards with no fliers with the H&K. That is nice, right? My M&P 45 will have a fist sized hole centered in the head and all the "fliers" within the silhouette's head. I own no (semi-automatic) handgun that can out shoot my M&P 45, even the ones costing way more.
Pistol Shooter
05-22-12, 16:31
As I have stated numerous times before:
Before purchasing anything, be sure you have received high quality initial training. Then try to ensure ongoing practice sessions.
Don't purchase a lot of different firearms. After having gone through the juvenile collector stage of idiotically wasting money by purchasing one or two of every type of service pistol ever produced, I finally grew-up and realized it is far better to strive to master one quality pistol type, then be perpetually mediocre with many. I strongly recommend purchasing two or three identical pistols once you have decided upon the model that you plan to use, carry, and train with. I dedicate one pistol for carry after thoroughly vetting function with 1000 or so rounds through it. Another identical pistol is solely used for training--it is shot till it breaks with minimal cleaning or babying during its service life. If I am able to afford a third pistol, it serves as a back-up to the other two and usually sits in an easily accessible safe as a readily available personal defense weapon mounting an x300 light.
As also previously related (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=105741&page=2), while I normally would recommend a 9 mm, in states with illogical 10 rd mag limits, .45 ACP makes more sense.
To summarize, pick a pistol, get a couple of identical ones, shoot them for a decade or so trying to get at least 200 rds of quality practice shots downrange a week, then re-assess as needed.
I'm an HK handgun fan but freely admit this is great advice for a new handgun owner.
BTW, there's nothing wrong with collecting handguns -- I've been doing it since 1975. ;)
condition 1
05-22-12, 20:23
Ive never owned an M&P, so I cant speak for it...
But my H&K USP 45 is hands down my favorite pistol. There are a few more rare pistols I have that Id never sell too, but I will literally hold on to this one for the rest of my life.
I tell everyone: if you can afford an H&K you will NOT be disappointed. If you dont want to spend $1200 on a pistol there are tons of great ~$500 options that won't let you down either. Its really a matter of what you want to spend, however there IS a reason H&Ks are x2+ more costly than all the other brands... :D
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj121/Blstr88/7324ec80.jpg
Thats some funny Shit right there !!! you learned how to load your mags from HK ? :p
As I have stated numerous times before:
Before purchasing anything, be sure you have received high quality initial training. Then try to ensure ongoing practice sessions.
Don't purchase a lot of different firearms. After having gone through the juvenile collector stage of idiotically wasting money by purchasing one or two of every type of service pistol ever produced, I finally grew-up and realized it is far better to strive to master one quality pistol type, then be perpetually mediocre with many. I strongly recommend purchasing two or three identical pistols once you have decided upon the model that you plan to use, carry, and train with. I dedicate one pistol for carry after thoroughly vetting function with 1000 or so rounds through it. Another identical pistol is solely used for training--it is shot till it breaks with minimal cleaning or babying during its service life. If I am able to afford a third pistol, it serves as a back-up to the other two and usually sits in an easily accessible safe as a readily available personal defense weapon mounting an x300 light.
As also previously related (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=105741&page=2), while I normally would recommend a 9 mm, in states with illogical 10 rd mag limits, .45 ACP makes more sense.
To summarize, pick a pistol, get a couple of identical ones, shoot them for a decade or so trying to get at least 200 rds of quality practice shots downrange a week, then re-assess as needed.
I don't agree with this philosophy. Sure, if your sole purpose of owning a firearm is to protect yourself and family friends and that's it, then that's fine. Anyone should be able to pick a certain platform and become proficient with it with enough practice. However i'm so sick of people ONLY concentrating on the "defense" part of owning a firearm.
Shooting should also be FUN. and if anyone tells me that they own all of their guns and gear and take classes etc SOLELY to learn how to fight with their weapon and to defend themselves and their family, but don't find any of it fun, i will call bullshit to their face. If money isn't a huge issue, then there's no reason for someone to find what they like first, THEN become proficient with that system. Plus, you people from the mainland can sell guns so easily, it shouldn't even really be a problem. You may lose out on some money buying a bunch of guns only to sell most of them, but when you finally find the platform you really like, it will be worth it.
My M&P would go before any of my HK's. But I don't sell my guns generally speaking, so they'll all be staying.
That said, people are different. You should shoot each at a rental range if possible before deciding and see which one fits you better.
Hogsgunwild
05-23-12, 00:48
I don't agree with this philosophy. Sure, if your sole purpose of owning a firearm is to protect yourself and family friends and that's it, then that's fine. Anyone should be able to pick a certain platform and become proficient with it with enough practice. However i'm so sick of people ONLY concentrating on the "defense" part of owning a firearm.
Shooting should also be FUN. and if anyone tells me that they own all of their guns and gear and take classes etc SOLELY to learn how to fight with their weapon and to defend themselves and their family, but don't find any of it fun, i will call bullshit to their face. If money isn't a huge issue, then there's no reason for someone to find what they like first, THEN become proficient with that system. Plus, you people from the mainland can sell guns so easily, it shouldn't even really be a problem. You may lose out on some money buying a bunch of guns only to sell most of them, but when you finally find the platform you really like, it will be worth it.
The two philosophies are diverging paths but both are relevant.
I agree with Doc's point of view and your point of view and I think if one is mature enough, both philosophies can co-exist together.
If not, they will end up like many of us and dump 5 digits worth of cash into all kinds of stupid (and sometimes cool) shit prior to figuring out what actually works in the real world when the chips are down. The trick is in knowing what you really want and need the weapon / gun / toy for.
Hell, the USP is easily as much "fun" as the M&P. If one is concerned with dollar for dollar practicality, then listen to the advice I (and some others) posted above. Otherwise, buy them both and get it over with.
First off, I agree with this:
Since you already have an M&P, stick with that system.
If you like the USP45 go for it. It's my primary handgun and it's a beast. However, that said, the fact you have an M&P and know that system I'd stick with that from a standpoint that thinks upon performance and stress factors. If you know the system you mentally will feel more prepared even if you shoot your other m&p more.
The USP is accurate, reliable, and is worthy of being its very own .45 in my opinion. With durability being able to potentially support the .45 Super it's insane. It was built to take hot loads and pretty much be bad a**. That's great! but the bore axis is fairly high whereas the m&p is very low (more controllable). The felt recoil reduction system of the USP is very pleasant but does slow down the sight recovery marginally. Magazine cost around $60 if you want factory- and factory is really the best way to go with these if you care for having something good in a situation where reliability is very important. The M&P on the other hand is a lot more easier to own and run as far as cost. Cost is a factor, sorry to say. When you buy four mags for $60 a piece you're paying $240!!! M&P will not be so cruel.
Parts for the M&P are a lot more affordable whereas getting any special perks for the USP45 takes things to another level.
That said, HK upped their customer service and they have replaced my extractor before with no hassle whatsoever. All USP's have a lifetime warranty and that's that.
So in the end go with what you like, but remember that if you're good with the M&P it's the best option. If you want a "special" .45 then get the USP. IMHO.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lstq3dJpEk1qa8t8jo1_500.jpg
Can't beat the S@W for the price and the customer service and the magazine prices as well as the ease of purchasing replacement parts.
I had my heart set on the hk usp. I was goingbto get it for 772. Now im told its 850 due to low stock. I have the money but the more I read these posts the less my heart beats for the HK. I know its a buy once cry once. But I do not want to make a purchase like this with any doubt. Unfortuantly I cannot shoot either. I live in western new yorkistan. Its hard enough to find gun shops that have brand name firearms let alone shoot. The one range we had that rented good firearms closed :rolleyes:.
For those who shot both, what is recoil difference?
I had my heart set on the hk usp. I was goingbto get it for 772. Now im told its 850 due to low stock. I have the money but the more I read these posts the less my heart beats for the HK. I know its a buy once cry once. But I do not want to make a purchase like this with any doubt. Unfortuantly I cannot shoot either. I live in western new yorkistan. Its hard enough to find gun shops that have brand name firearms let alone shoot. The one range we had that rented good firearms closed :rolleyes:.
For those who shot both, what is recoil difference?
I think you're fine either way, but unless you're dying to have it now, I suggest you wait until you take a trip somewhere, rent and shoot them both, then decide. If you just have to have it now, I don't think you go wrong either way. Both are excellent guns; both are accurate, durable and reliable. M&P needs an APEX trigger mod. HK needs a couple thousand rounds shot through it or a Gray Guns trigger job. Other than that, I would stake my life on either gun. Hope that's helpful.
The harder it is for you to get guns, the more so you should get the one you want most.
Hogsgunwild
05-25-12, 22:29
For those who shot both, what is recoil difference?
The USP has the higher bore axis but it shoots great and the recoil of either gun isn't really worth thinking about. I shot the M&P 45 midsize today and the USP 45 three weeks ago but I still can't say that either is worse than the other. The M&P might be a bit more abrupt as the bigger
USP may suck it up better but then the bore axis thing... It's really a non-issue.
Both really rock out in rapid fire. Probably the most fun you can have with a pistol...
Two of my favorite pistols, ever.
you need to find local owners who will let you try the m&p and the hk. what one person is comfortable with might not work for you. if you go over to hkpro i am sure you can find someone local who has a usp you can try, same for the m&p forums.
the m&p is a great firearm and shoots well but i do not like the backstraps. the slight curve in the rear and palm swell on each side is uncomfortable to me as i am primarily a 1911 shooter. if there was a rear backstrap that addressed these issues i would be more inclined to have one in the safe. i ran a pro9 in idpa for a while and just could not get over the grip so i traded it for a hk.
also, for me, the pro sear wins over the apex setups. coworkers and friends have the apex variants, shot them and it is much better than stock but i prefer the pro sear. again, personal choice.
the usp is a mainstay for me, along with my 1911. my hands are sized in between medium and large and i have gotten comfortable with the grip. it is accurate, reliable, and able to be converted to different trigger variants. i just did a hybrid match/lem conversion on my 9mm and i prefer the lem system to da/sa but am comfortable with either.
once again, to truly see which you prefer you need to shoot them both. a few hundred rounds through each and if possible more than one range session. the initial buzz over shooting the new pistol needs to be tempered with time reflecting on the feel and function in your hands so you can really make an informed decision.
First, I have to say I've never shot an MP45, but the USP45 is a fantastic gun. The recoil is not bad. It might have a higher bore axis but the dual recoil spring helps.
At the end of the day, the USP costs more, the mags are very expensive and you need a rail adapter to fit most lights/laser. It's like they're trying to keep people from liking them... until you shoot one. Then you forget about all that and let the gun do the talking... :cool:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d135/Talnz167/Cannons/P5084250b.jpg
RogerinTPA
05-26-12, 10:29
I don't agree with this philosophy. Sure, if your sole purpose of owning a firearm is to protect yourself and family friends and that's it, then that's fine. Anyone should be able to pick a certain platform and become proficient with it with enough practice. However i'm so sick of people ONLY concentrating on the "defense" part of owning a firearm.
Shooting should also be FUN. and if anyone tells me that they own all of their guns and gear and take classes etc SOLELY to learn how to fight with their weapon and to defend themselves and their family, but don't find any of it fun, i will call bullshit to their face. If money isn't a huge issue, then there's no reason for someone to find what they like first, THEN become proficient with that system. Plus, you people from the mainland can sell guns so easily, it shouldn't even really be a problem. You may lose out on some money buying a bunch of guns only to sell most of them, but when you finally find the platform you really like, it will be worth it.
If you think owning a firearm is just for fun, you are in the wrong forum. A firearm is first and foremost a defensive weapon. Ergo, all your time, coin and devotion, should be devoted to that effort. Be advised, cost increases as caliber increases. We believe in getting quality training here.
Successfully negotiating a training course, at or above a current skill set, is challenging, increases one's learning curve, makes one a better shooter, gives one confidence in the ability to hit what you aim at, and... you learned something you didn't know before. You have, in 2 or 3 days, become more proficient, even if you are a novice or crappy shooter. Most, if not all of that kind of training, derives "fun" for us. Others who don't learn from the experience, doesn't do well with their firearm, never takes a class again because their "ego, pride, being a Hard Head, insert excuse here" will not allow them to learn.
I always go to the range with a purpose in mind, to practice what I've learned in those past classes, to become more proficient. Cutting the center out of a target, on demand, at various ranges, gives me great pleasure, and therefore, "fun". If doing Mag dumps and shouting "Woo Hoo", Hell Yeah!, I ****ed that up!", use Bump Fire devices, try to shoot fish, or shoot beer cans at every opportunity, you are in the wrong forum.
PS: How do you know if you "like" a firearm if: a) You never shot it to proficiency and b) you are a novice and have no skill set to gauge from?
DeltaSierra
05-26-12, 10:50
You'll save yourself a lot of hassle and money if you avoid the childish collector phase that most of us have gone through (and some are still in) and just stick with one system.
winner winner, chicken dinner...
stick with one handgun design. don't get caught up in the mentality that you need a bunch of different guns - you don't. at most, you need is one identical back-up gun - that is all.
I have small to medium hands and the HK is the one double stack 45 that I don't find too big.
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