Do you run a laser?

[skywalkrNCSU]

We all see in movies/TV cops or bad guys running lasers as a guy comes out of a building he is covered in little dots. My pops has one on his rifle and honestly, I don't see much point to them. If you have a good red dot sight then that would be easy enough for aiming. Also, after looking through a ton of guns on here, doesn't seem to be many people running them.

I guess the only benefit I can see is in close quarters situations because I would imagine the accuracy would only decrease with distance.

[C4IGrant]

We all see in movies/TV cops or bad guys running lasers as a guy comes out of a building he is covered in little dots. My pops has one on his rifle and honestly, I don't see much point to them. If you have a good red dot sight then that would be easy enough for aiming. Also, after looking through a ton of guns on here, doesn't seem to be many people running them.

I guess the only benefit I can see is in close quarters situations because I would imagine the accuracy would only decrease with distance.

No as they are slower (on a long gun) than a RDS is.

With that said, I have one, but it is of the IR flavor. :ph34r:


C4

[Grizzly16]

We all see in movies/TV cops or bad guys running lasers as a guy comes out of a building he is covered in little dots. My pops has one on his rifle and honestly, I don't see much point to them. If you have a good red dot sight then that would be easy enough for aiming. Also, after looking through a ton of guns on here, doesn't seem to be many people running them.

I guess the only benefit I can see is in close quarters situations because I would imagine the accuracy would only decrease with distance.

And if it isn't an IR laser it is going to give away that you are there quite a bit as well. I've run a few rounds of force on force this week against a squad that was using a red laser. He made it pretty easy for me to know when NOT to come around the corner. Wait til the pretty red dot moves away from my spot then lay some hate. And if he turns it off he is in one of two situations:
1. A tool he is used to relying on (laser dot on target) is gone and might cause problems.
2. He is slower to turn it back on.

[SuperiorDG]

As a civilian I see no need.

[skywalkrNCSU]

And if it isn't an IR laser it is going to give away that you are there quite a bit as well. I've run a few rounds of force on force this week against a squad that was using a red laser. He made it pretty easy for me to know when NOT to come around the corner. Wait til the pretty red dot moves away from my spot then lay some hate. And if he turns it off he is in one of two situations:
1. A tool he is used to relying on (laser dot on target) is gone and might cause problems.
2. He is slower to turn it back on.

That is a very interesting point and makes a lot of sense. Never thought about it that way. I don't think I would exactly come around the corner in a life and death situation if I saw a laser dot in the doorway.

[skywalkrNCSU]

As a civilian I see no need.

Where do you see a need? I am being genuinely curious here, not a smartass. I am really pretty ignorant to the benefits of having one.

[Grizzly16]

That is a very interesting point and makes a lot of sense. Never thought about it that way. I don't think I would exactly come around the corner in a life and death situation if I saw a laser dot in the doorway.

If someone is between me and my son's room in the house I will get to him. But then I'm the type that would keep nvgs and an ir laser by the bed.

Having run against guys using ir lasers and nvgs when we didn't have them it is an incredible advantage in low light.

[SuperiorDG]

Where do you see a need? I am being genuinely curious here, not a smartass. I am really pretty ignorant to the benefits of having one.

I only see a need if you have IR gear and are running an IR laser. Unless the government is paying for it I don't see it being worth it. A civilian would never have a need for a visible laser if they had a red dot. And an IR laser almost never be needed enough to justify the cost in my mind and budget.

[skywalkrNCSU]

Ahhh, didn't think about a dot w/NV. I take it the dot can't be seen by people without NV. That could definitely be an advantage, heck the NV alone would be a pretty big advantage :D

[Wake27]

How about pistols? Crimson Trace anyone? I have a Viridian which I really like, but have yet to shoot it mounted so idk if it holds its zero (biggest problem with lasers I think - function wise). Until then I won't run it.

[B Cart]

How about pistols? Crimson Trace anyone? I have a Viridian which I really like, but have yet to shoot it mounted so idk if it holds its zero (biggest problem with lasers I think - function wise). Until then I won't run it.

I think a laser on a pistol can offer some benefit in low light situations, but after years of use and multiple training classes, I eventually took mine off. The laser was very accurate, and great in low light situations, but I found that whenever I shot under stress and did more than static shooting, I instinctively reverted back to my iron sights and never actually focused on the laser dot. Because of that, I decided to keep things simple and practice only with the sights I actually used under stress, and only shoot irons.

As for rifles, I don't see many benefits of a laser unless maybe it's IR and used with an NVD, and even at that, I think a red dot sight is better.

[skywalkrNCSU]

How about pistols? Crimson Trace anyone? I have a Viridian which I really like, but have yet to shoot it mounted so idk if it holds its zero (biggest problem with lasers I think - function wise). Until then I won't run it.

Definitely would like to hear some insight from the pistol side as well. Never got one myself but I could see the value of it in a SHTF situation because aiming might not be as easy but I would probably just revert to muscle memory and not even look for the dot in that situation.

[dustburn]

I am also curious to the application in the civilian world. It makes a good pointer, it allows to aim when unable to achieve a cheekweld/if not able to see through irons/red dot, but this is all I can think of.

[Wiggity]

The only civilian application I use a laser for is hog hunting!


Tis a hell of a lot of fun

[Wake27]

Definitely would like to hear some insight from the pistol side as well. Never got one myself but I could see the value of it in a SHTF situation because aiming might not be as easy but I would probably just revert to muscle memory and not even look for the dot in that situation.

I like it as a deterrent as well, I feel like it'd be even more effective than just a pistol pointed at you. Plus the Viridian I have is bright as shit and the range is pretty ridiculous. Its also the C5L and the tiny little light on there is 100 lumens and also impressively bright for its size.

[skywalkrNCSU]

I like it as a deterrent as well, I feel like it'd be even more effective than just a pistol pointed at you. Plus the Viridian I have is bright as shit and the range is pretty ridiculous. Its also the C5L and the tiny little light on there is 100 lumens and also impressively bright for its size.

That makes sense, if a bad guy isn't shitting his pants looking down the barrel of a gun already seeing exactly where he is about to have a hole blown in him should do the trick :D

I have thought of getting one of the built in lasers for my Glock, just always find other toys I want too.

[B Cart]

To more fully answer your question, I think a laser on a pistol isn't necessary, but can be a beneficial tool in certain situations IF the shooter treats it as a tool and doesn't rely solely on it. I've seen more than one shooter start relying completely on a laser and let proper shooting fundamentals go out the window.


From my experience, these are the pros and cons of using a laser on a pistol:

Pros
1. You can shoot from unconventional positions and see where your bullet is going to hit without always having a proper sight picture
2. It is easy to make accurate hits in Low/No light situations
3. They can help show improper shooting/grip/trigger control problems during training
4. They can have a powerful psychological effect on a bad guy that can potentially help defuse the threat

Cons
1. They require a different shooting focus/mindset than iron sights, which can complicate things
2. The dot can be very hard to see in the daytime
3. They are battery powered, and electronics can fail
4. They can cause some shooters to become reliant upon them, therefore sacrificing proper shooting fundamentals.
5. They can telegraph your position when house clearing etc.

I'm sure there are more, but those are the ones that come to mind.

I think lasers have their place and can be beneficial if the user understands they are a tool to be used on top of proper shooting fundamentals, and practices with them adequately.

[Wake27]

To more fully answer your question, I think a laser on a pistol isn't necessary, but can be a beneficial tool in certain situations IF the shooter treats it as a tool and doesn't rely solely on it. I've seen more than one shooter start relying completely on a laser and let proper shooting fundamentals go out the window.


From my experience, these are the pros and cons of using a laser on a pistol:

Pros
1. You can shoot from unconventional positions and see where your bullet is going to hit without always having a proper sight picture
2. It is easy to make accurate hits in Low/No light situations
3. They can help show improper shooting/grip/trigger control problems during training
4. They can have a powerful psychological effect on a bad guy that can potentially help defuse the threat

Cons
1. They require a different shooting focus/mindset than iron sights, which can complicate things
2. The dot can be very hard to see in the daytime
3. They are battery powered, and electronics can fail
4. They can cause some shooters to become reliant upon them, therefore sacrificing proper shooting fundamentals.
5. They can telegraph your position when house clearing etc.

I'm sure there are more, but those are the ones that come to mind.

I think lasers have their place and can be beneficial if the user understands they are a tool to be used on top of proper shooting fundamentals, and practices with them adequately.

Very well said.

[Rattlehead]

I find that CTC grips on smaller guns (i.e S&W Airlite) are useful where you have an extremely short sight radius.

They're only a crutch if you make them a crutch by not having enough practice with both iron and laser sighted systems.

[JEL458]

From a CONUS LE perspective, when shooting with a gas mask on, they are very helpful.

[Wake27]

From a CONUS LE perspective, when shooting with a gas mask on, they are very helpful.

I'd imagine the same is true from behind a ballistic shield.

[JEL458]

I'd imagine the same is true from behind a ballistic shield.

I assumed the OP was thinking rifles, but absolutely. We recently did some bunker stuff at an FBI SWAT school and those that had crimson trace on their pistols had an easier time. That said, you can make shots using the port without much difficulty.

Shooting with a gas mask on when using a rifle can be very challenging. Vis lasers help with this.

[Noodles McGee]

I have a ct laser on my hd rifle. It came with it and I thought it was hokey at 1st. Then I and my wife both realized we can seethe dot and shoot effectivly without vision corrections (glasses or contacts). I can't see my rds without corrections just a big red blod

[DIRTMAN556]

Voted for "sometimes." For my civie AR, I use an el cheapo Nebo 8 LED flashlight with built-in laser.

[FatTuesday]

I'm a long time gun owner but AR newbie. I recently got the green light to purchase an AR from the minister of finance (wife). The clean look of the naked rail along with the excellent reputation of Daniel Defense made me decide on the DDM4v7. I wanted it for HD/EHTCD purposes so a light and laser seemed like a good idea, but I was not fond of some of the light installs I saw, mainly the zip-tied wires and velcro/stick tape switches.

I found the Crimson Trace MVF-515R and based on some good press gave it a shot. I have the laser sighted at about 30 yards and can hit dead on from the hip. The postition of the light and laser switches make it a very clean install and easy to use. Most of my shooting is done using the rail mounted DD fixed sights, but it's nice to have the laser for when I can't get a proper sight picture. I have both the light and laser configured for momentary on so they are only lit when I want them to be and since the controls are right there in the grip my hand is always in the right spot.

The CT wasn't cheap, I think around $375, but it's nice to have a simple, clean install. I would never use the laser as my primary sighting method, but I feel a bit safer knowing it's there should the need arise. YMMV

[Wake27]

I'm a long time gun owner but AR newbie. I recently got the green light to purchase an AR from the minister of finance (wife). The clean look of the naked rail along with the excellent reputation of Daniel Defense made me decide on the DDM4v7. I wanted it for HD/EHTCD purposes so a light and laser seemed like a good idea, but I was not fond of some of the light installs I saw, mainly the zip-tied wires and velcro/stick tape switches.

I found the Crimson Trace MVF-515R and based on some good press gave it a shot. I have the laser sighted at about 30 yards and can hit dead on from the hip. The postition of the light and laser switches make it a very clean install and easy to use. Most of my shooting is done using the rail mounted DD fixed sights, but it's nice to have the laser for when I can't get a proper sight picture. I have both the light and laser configured for momentary on so they are only lit when I want them to be and since the controls are right there in the grip my hand is always in the right spot.

The CT wasn't cheap, I think around $375, but it's nice to have a simple, clean install. I would never use the laser as my primary sighting method, but I feel a bit safer knowing it's there should the need arise. YMMV

Speaking of CT, has anyone tried the new CMR-201?

[Delta One]

I have in the past but for my primary training rifle I use at the range, it's just MOE mid lengths with a light on it.

The whole laser whether it's IR or not and a ton of accessories on an RIS doesn't really make sense to me on my training rifle.

As other said, the application in the civilian world is very limited.

[Evil Colt 6920]

Ive played around with a laser on a rifle, it just wasnt for me. My cats love it however. :p Now its a dedicated cat toy.

[Abraxas]

Where do you see a need? I am being genuinely curious here, not a smartass. I am really pretty ignorant to the benefits of having one.

When using NVG's and then only IR.

[ClearedHot]

As for rifles, I don't see many benefits of a laser unless maybe it's IR and used with an NVD, and even at that, I think a red dot sight is better.

You would be wrong about a red dot used in conjunction with a NVD being better than running an IR laser. I would only use my T-1 on the NV setting if I had to take a passive shot, where activating the PEQ-2 would give my position away to an adversary with NV capabilities.