View Full Version : More drones...
Been away a while due to illness and I am finally on the road to recovery so I thought I would start participating here at M4C again. Good to be back finally.
More and more drones (And more and more of us becomming "drones" as well...) being pushed by the Gummint to utilize here at home...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/22/drones-dhs-program-unmanned-aircraft-police_n_1537074.html
I used the link from Huffpo, not because it is a good source, but for members here to browse the comments section.
Man, is the writing on the wall or what? With all of the recent usurpations of freedom (I could list them, but this post would be huge and most of you already know what is going on and can connect the dots...); they aren't treading lightly anymore and if action isn't taken soon we are truly ****ed.
I always wondered what it would take for us (I mean the few in society that see what is going on, the games that are being played and the end to our liberty and sovereignty that is rapidly approaching) to unite, take to action and really fight this bullshit.
We have already enslaved our future generations in the form of insurmountable debt (Pushing our debt on future generations is defacto enslavement); now we just have to keep being complacent and not answering the call to action and we will be literal slaves within a decade; shit we're already subjects not citizens.
So what does it take? When will I or others here stand and fight? Seriously I have been asking myself this question a lot lately; I came close to being dispatched from this earth due to health problems and now that I am getting better, I feel it is time to act whilst there is still a chance we can make a difference; where the cards will fall is another question, a scary one to let rhuminate in the old noggin'...
So does the membership here at M4C believe the train is truly off the tracks and all we can do is hold on and watch it crash; or do you believe we can answer the proverbial call to action and right the wrongs of the last 100 years of sitting back and allowing the slow encroachment of our liberty?
I'm sick of the "head in sand mentality" that perpetuates this country, it is time to open up a realistic dialogue; not just about what is wrong and how pissed we are, but about how we as individuals and as groups WILL (re)act.
If you're not willing to (re)act (And I say "react" as this has been brewing for quite some time, the initial action being taken against us) or see no reason to, please elaborate as to why and how you came to that conclusion.
"Actioni contrariam semper et æqualem esse reactionem: sive corporum duorum actiones in se mutuo semper esse æquales et in partes contrarias dirigi."
Thoughts? Ideas? Criticisms?
Moose-Knuckle
05-23-12, 17:02
NFL Spends On Washington Lobbyists For Drone Planes
http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201205/nfl-spends-big-washington-lobbyists-drones-planes
Rise of spy planes exposed after FAA is forced to reveal 63 launch sites across U.S.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2134376/Is-drone-neighbourhood-Rise-killer-spy-planes-exposed-FAA-forced-reveal-63-launch-sites-U-S.html
I know I feel safer already . . . http://www.websmileys.com/sm/crazy/282.gif
Doc Safari
05-23-12, 17:09
But, you guys....it's for the children. :D
Seriously, though, I'm wondering if the genie is out of the bottle and we watch the country just continue a slow, definite spiral into revolution, anarchy, and civil war...
...or if we become a police state complete with people's DNA stored in a national database and their "scent" stored on rags in sealed jars so the dogs can find them....
.....or if there's a way to reverse all of this with the right politicians in office?
I can't answer the poll because I'm totally without vision on what this country's future might be.
montanadave
05-23-12, 21:41
I would suggest those concerned about drones start brushing up their skills on the ATS Gnat at your local range.
http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2012/02/this-might-make-me-want-to-try.html
I would suggest those concerned about drones start brushing up their skills on the ATS Gnat at your local range.
http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2012/02/this-might-make-me-want-to-try.html
That was cool!
Based on the current votes I feel this take may be against the grain but someone has got to play devil's advocate...
There was a time when I would have voted to fight for the republic. Unfortunately, with each passing day I'm given less and less reason to wish to fight for the republic. If there's some sort of economic collapse (most likely) and anarchy takes over I will likely spell most of my possessions for a plane ticket out of this sinking ship. I'm getting older and I'm afraid my level of fight is dwindling with age and the amount of weight I can carry for the sheeple of the nation is also atrophying with time. I had a conversation with a small group last week that further supported this thinking when I was told that 'my kind' wishes for collapse so that we can violently overthrow the government so that we can push all of our ideas and beliefs onto people through threats at gun point. I'm sorry but if that's honestly how the majority of the population feels these days and is more worried about their free money and handouts being cut off than restoration of the Republic then they deserve to reap what they sew. To me the people saying such things are directly spitting into the face of all the great heroes who have laid it all on the line for this great nation since day one but they are completely clueless. I'll watch it all unfold on TV/internet from some island not too far from the equator. It may sound selfish but why die for your country populated by people who celebrate your death trying to restore it to the greatness it once was... is that really your country? This isn't as easy of a decision as it once was and I feel that too many people are quick to speak how they feel w/o really thinking about the full ramifications of their actions. There's a whole lot of chest pounding rhetoric from many but how many of them would be so quick to take up arms against their brothers when so many people will be condemning them for trying to violently prevent 'progress'??
It's a much deeper topic than the few sentences many spit out here and there because it's the right thing to say on the intrawebs.
Based on the current votes I feel this take may be against the grain but someone has got to play devil's advocate...
There was a time when I would have voted to fight for the republic. Unfortunately, with each passing day I'm given less and less reason to wish to fight for the republic. If there's some sort of economic collapse (most likely) and anarchy takes over I will likely spell most of my possessions for a plane ticket out of this sinking ship. I'm getting older and I'm afraid my level of fight is dwindling with age and the amount of weight I can carry for the sheeple of the nation is also atrophying with time. I had a conversation with a small group last week that further supported this thinking when I was told that 'my kind' wishes for collapse so that we can violently overthrow the government so that we can push all of our ideas and beliefs onto people through threats at gun point. I'm sorry but if that's honestly how the majority of the population feels these days and is more worried about their free money and handouts being cut off than restoration of the Republic then they deserve to reap what they sew. To me the people saying such things are directly spitting into the face of all the great heroes who have laid it all on the line for this great nation since day one but they are completely clueless. I'll watch it all unfold on TV/internet from some island not too far from the equator. It may sound selfish but why die for your country populated by people who celebrate your death trying to restore it to the greatness it once was... is that really your country? This isn't as easy of a decision as it once was and I feel that too many people are quick to speak how they feel w/o really thinking about the full ramifications of their actions. There's a whole lot of chest pounding rhetoric from many but how many of them would be so quick to take up arms against their brothers when so many people will be condemning them for trying to violently prevent 'progress'??
It's a much deeper topic than the few sentences many spit out here and there because it's the right thing to say on the intrawebs.
Thank you for your input Jer; it is much appreciated. This is exactly why I started this thread; I am sick of the one liner half though out interweb reply to serious issues that require a realistic and comprehensive dialogue. I'm tired of the placated masses following suit, and just living/surviving until the next round of liberty erroding legislation comes down on us. The time to (re)act, if not now- will get harder with every passing day if not lost altogether.
I understand your sentiments and agree to a certain extent.
I will fight for this country because I believe it is bigger than those of us that inhabit it; the ideals and natural born rights that our forefathers fought and died for- transcend us as individuals, as a whole society- as living entities . I believe we had something going here that was truly spectacular, right, just and worth fighting to regain; regardless of perceived or realistic futility in said fight.
Long after we are gone, the ideals this coutnry was built upon will still be inherently right and just.
If I arrive at the summation that the republic is truly lost; and not only lost, but not worth fighting to regain; then I would succomb to being lost myself, without direction, without hope, without a future; not worth the gift I was given; the gift that we were all given in this once great nation and the ideals that built it.
I just can't perceive a moment in my existence when fighting for what is morally and ethically right is no longer part of reality and a driving force of my being.
This country and its inhabitants (I believe a majority still exists; the screamers/shit slingers get a lot of press and are always in our faces, but they are truly the minority!) is still different from the rest of the world; we may be faltering quite terribly and teetering on the brink of becoming like the rest of the world has, but we still have a moment right here right now to do what is right and just; we can make a stand, wether we fail or succeed is irrelevant to me at this point, the only relevant and necessary course is action (Reaction).
The realities here are terrifying; stay the course "safely" and end up living in a sci-fi novel like distopia (Almost there already...), or fight and possibly die to direct this burning broken train onto a better track- neither are easily acceptable, but one path is morally/ethically justified & honorable, whilst the other is the path of cowards with slave mentalities hiding from the pain, hiding from the sacrifice that is inherent to protecting liberty and not merely surviving, but thriving in this existence.
Freedom is the road to prosperity; giving up on freedom is the road to slavery; hiding from both and being cognizantly dissident is unacceptable as human beings, as honorable men...
I would like to hear from more of you on the subject, I want a serious dialogue to open up, lets entertain and debate all avenues of thought here.
montanadave
05-24-12, 17:51
Just my simple observation. My neighbor and I are not on the same page politicly. He's close to my dad's age. And he's a devout Catholic and I'm a rather militant agnostic. So we don't see eye to eye on a lot of the hot button social issues like gay marriage or abortion either.
Yet, despite all our differences, we honestly like one another, are quick to help each other out, and have been good neighbors for over fifteen years. Our friendship is more important than the issues we disagree on. We can agree to disagree, let each other make their own personal decisions, respect those decisions, and still get along.
That's what seems to have gotten lost in all the bullshit. If people spent less time listening, watching, and reading all the pundits and experts telling us how divided we are (and who, incidentally, make a nice living fomenting that debate) and spent a little more time cultivating their relationships with the folks in their own neighborhood and community, their outlook might not be so bleak.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
Just my simple observation. My neighbor and I are not on the same page politicly. He's close to my dad's age. And he's a devout Catholic and I'm a rather militant agnostic. So we don't see eye to eye on a lot of the hot button social issues like gay marriage or abortion either.
Yet, despite all our differences, we honestly like one another, are quick to help each other out, and have been good neighbors for over fifteen years. Our friendship is more important than the issues we disagree on. We can agree to disagree, let each other make their own personal decisions, respect those decisions, and still get along.
That's what seems to have gotten lost in all the bullshit. If people spent less time listening, watching, and reading all the pundits and experts telling us how divided we are (and who, incidentally, make a nice living fomenting that debate) and spent a little more time cultivating their relationships with the folks in their own neighborhood and community, their outlook might not be so bleak.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
Great post, and I vehemently agree.
We are more alike than the talking heads would like us to believe and as long as we tow the line, we fall for their ploy to divide us further.
My comment that the people who are screaming in our faces and get all th attention are in the minority is directly related to this line of logic; we really are all our brothers keepers; now its time to decide if uniting to battle the common enemy (Runaway hydraheaded gummint) is more important than arguing about our political and socioeconomical differences.
I know there will be those who can never logically debate such things and will be corrupted by emotions interfering with reason; but again I believe they are the minority.
We still have a chance and hope as long as we continue to act and put forth the effort necessary to accept iur differences as blessings and move forward together.
Littlelebowski
05-24-12, 19:57
Texas cops want armed drones (http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/05/23/groups-concerned-over-arming-of-domestic-drones/)
I'm increasingly apathetic regarding the political process. My views aren't represented, and the current left-to-lefter-and-back teeter totter is slowly crushing us. We swing to the authoritarian left, then to the authoritarian less-left (I refuse to call them the "right" if the Republican party is the right, I want to secede), and back again. Each time we incur more debt. Each time we lose more freedoms. Each time we give more to the undeserving, parasitic segment (and increasingly large) of our nation.
Don't mistake my meaning: I will be the first to fight when they truly cross the line, and not before. I don't know where the line is. It will be hard to define, but I think most of us will know when we cross it. I just no longer have great aspirations for aiding the political process.
THCDDM4,
Glad to hear you're doing well man. Been a while since I've seen you on here. I hope your health continues!
So, I may be reading wrong, but it sounds to me that you are (somewhat) calling for people to act (or react as you put it) in more of a physical sense (dare I say "revolution")?
I'll try to be somewhat a voice of "reason" here. There seems to be some "changes in the winds" in regards to the political climate this election. With the election of (R) Bob Turner in New York (of all places!) last September, and the election of (R/TEA Party) Richard Mourdock in Indiana recently, both big upsets, there seems to be a shift towards the Grassroots/TEA Party candidates more than there ever has been. I think people are finally seeing the writing on the wall and getting tired of voting within the One Party System and opting to vote for someone who actually knows and will uphold the Constitution!
I may be wrong, but I think it will be this November that we will know whether the train will soon run off the tracks, or if it will slowly start taking the right course. I just hope its not too late even if we do get the right people in there.
So, no, I personally don't think it's time to do anything other than take action with the ballot box. And trust me, generally I'm in the same camp as Kfgk14 in regards to politics, but I think this time around we actually have some candidates who will do what they say they will do, uphold the Constitution, and serve The People.
montanadave
05-24-12, 21:15
Texas cops want armed drones (http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/05/23/groups-concerned-over-arming-of-domestic-drones/)
That is so ****ed up in so many ways I don't even know where to start.
SeriousStudent
05-24-12, 22:44
Texas cops want armed drones (http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/05/23/groups-concerned-over-arming-of-domestic-drones/)
We only want them for the Yankees that head south in the winter......
Or maybe dove season. And have you people seen the fire ant problem we have down here?
Other than that, my vote is no.
Along similar lines:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:PChZaF1sTtAJ:il.aclu.org/site/DocServer/Surveillance_Camera_Report1.pdf+chicago+facial+recognition&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESik47uE3Csq8-NrRRjn9GoSq3yCxybGxhjtMTm7e3m_444JLpiNPBjy0hOjQXQthxPr9JgU3eBvY27y2QX4_7jKCurKwMxdnb5JBB3HdDTtXvdo1mLpuymtNl9uduvvDGc9R_CF&sig=AHIEtbR9ePVzymfOZlS88jBKcZnFwajwcQ&utm_source=June+2012&utm_campaign=June+2012&utm_medium=email
THCDDM4,
Glad to hear you're doing well man. Been a while since I've seen you on here. I hope your health continues!
So, I may be reading wrong, but it sounds to me that you are (somewhat) calling for people to act (or react as you put it) in more of a physical sense (dare I say "revolution")?
I'll try to be somewhat a voice of "reason" here. There seems to be some "changes in the winds" in regards to the political climate this election. With the election of (R) Bob Turner in New York (of all places!) last September, and the election of (R/TEA Party) Richard Mourdock in Indiana recently, both big upsets, there seems to be a shift towards the Grassroots/TEA Party candidates more than there ever has been. I think people are finally seeing the writing on the wall and getting tired of voting within the One Party System and opting to vote for someone who actually knows and will uphold the Constitution!
I may be wrong, but I think it will be this November that we will know whether the train will soon run off the tracks, or if it will slowly start taking the right course. I just hope its not too late even if we do get the right people in there.
So, no, I personally don't think it's time to do anything other than take action with the ballot box. And trust me, generally I'm in the same camp as Kfgk14 in regards to politics, but I think this time around we actually have some candidates who will do what they say they will do, uphold the Constitution, and serve The People.
Thanks IronMan; I appreciate it.
In a sense, yes I am calling for people to start discussing the possibilies surrounding physical direct action against those that seek to destroy our liberty. I would like to discuss a course of non-violent direct action first however; when that fails; well there really aren't any other options in this technological age...
Just think about it for a second-
There are...
A) Enough survelliance cameras (Satellites as well...) on every major street/road/intersection/Govt. buidling in every state...
B) A "telescreen" in every ones pocket/hand...
C) Enough legislation coming down the pike (Connect the dots in the big picture not just as individual pieces of legislation/regulation, etc...) to keep us on a path to a complete totalitarian state controlled by big brother if not fought right here right now...
D) Enough people being led into believing the ever-increasing misinformation the Gummint and MSM's spoon-feed us on a daily basis...
Now enter stage left-
E) The drones; with a small number of well placed/controlled drones, everything the NSA/FED wants to see in the continental USA is pretty easy to get their peepers on...
F) Increased "Emergency" military training presence in all major cities accross the USA (Why all these training missions for a major dissaster all of the sudden; everywhere. Saw Blackhawks, chinooks and a few others I couldn't positively identify over Denver/surrounding area the other day as part of a "training mission in case of an emergency"...)
G) US Gummint is continuing on the path towards global gummint...
H) We are spending ourselves into oblivion; literally! We cannot sustain such debt and spending coupled with a declining manufacturing base, declining economic freedoms, declining work force, increased entitlements, etc...
Shall I go on?
If a real dialogue doesn't open up soon and we feel out what can be done; the time will pass and nothing will be able to be done due to the level of control being forced upon us. technology is approaching exponential growth; and the possibilities are endless and downright scaring the crap out of me.
I am not necessarily positing that we should start violently revolting; but we need to start getting together again as neighbors, communities and as countrymen to relocate the common ground we once had that kept us united against aggression from outside and from within. If enough of us unite together with the same goal of getting us back on track, there is no one in the world that can defeat us but ourselves. Think- cirtical mass...
There are too many agendas working against us to sustain our liberty much longer without direct action; if you can logically convince me otherwise; please share...
Doc Safari
05-25-12, 15:17
I was so bored last night I listened to a lengthy discourse about this subject on the Alex Jones show on 4.840 shortwave.
For the most part I consider that guy a nutbar.
The scary thing about it is that his rants are starting to sound more and more plausible.
He was talking about armed drones taking out "undesirables" first since they know people won't object to meth labs and militant groups (and whatnot) being taken out by armed drones. It's all leading up to them being able to "deal with" you, no matter who you are, when and where they want and with impunity.
Scary stuff.
Thanks for a serious post on the subject.
My preference is for "law and order" and using the Constitutional tools the Founders gave us. However, anyone observing can see that the Constitutional options for solving problems are breaking down; the Constitution is being subverted and ignored on all sides. Political and legal solutions do not seem to be working. Our current set of "grievances" against the government seem more serious than most of the items listed in the Declaration of Independence as grievances against England.
VooDoo6Actual
05-25-12, 19:37
Nice to see & hear some people still have a SACK.
Thanks for a serious post on the subject.
My preference is for "law and order" and using the Constitutional tools the Founders gave us. However, anyone observing can see that the Constitutional options for solving problems are breaking down; the Constitution is being subverted and ignored on all sides. Political and legal solutions do not seem to be working. Our current set of "grievances" against the government seem more serious than most of the items listed in the Declaration of Independence as grievances against England.
Good post. Would you please elaborate/start the list of curret greviances against our gummint? I implore others to add to the list as well.
I would like to hear from more M4C-ers in this thread.
So let's here some more opinions on the subject...
I wonder how an outlawing of private ownership of certain materials would go over these days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102
I'm increasingly apathetic regarding the political process. My views aren't represented, and the current left-to-lefter-and-back teeter totter is slowly crushing us. We swing to the authoritarian left, then to the authoritarian less-left (I refuse to call them the "right" if the Republican party is the right, I want to secede), and back again. Each time we incur more debt. Each time we lose more freedoms. Each time we give more to the undeserving, parasitic segment (and increasingly large) of our nation.
Don't mistake my meaning: I will be the first to fight when they truly cross the line, and not before. I don't know where the line is. It will be hard to define, but I think most of us will know when we cross it. I just no longer have great aspirations for aiding the political process.
I agree. I've utilized letter writing campaigns, emails, phone calls, constantly being in the face of my so called "representatives" and have been directed to pound sand by each one. I am truly unrepresented; except for my own voice...
For me the line was crossed the second we stopped enforcing the constitution; it's just a nice well preserved piece of hemp paper now, with no hope in site politically speaking for us to regain these rights.
The second they said they would hold us indefinitely without charge/constitutional rights; and the second they okayed drones to spy on us here at home they further crossed the line into no mans land. Time to push them back IMO.
So where is "your" line?
:confused:
Are people afraid to dicsuss this topic in depth or just uninterested?
Usually I see more debate and a lot of back and forth in this type of thread, but this one has been really silent in comparison...
The specific M4C members/posters I thought would participate heavily in this type of thread have been the most silent.
Just curious...
Moose-Knuckle
06-01-12, 15:49
Well POTUS sure does enjoy his "kill list" meetings . . .
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/obama-signs-bill-authorizing-30000-drones-over-america.jpg
Well POTUS sure does enjoy his "kill list" meetings . . .
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/obama-signs-bill-authorizing-30000-drones-over-america.jpg
For what realistic constitutional reason would we need 30,000 drones in our skies? For what reason at all would we need them?
http://www.dailypaul.com/234428/spy-drone-almost-causes-mid-air-collision-with-jet-over-denver
I realize ^this isn;'t the best link (Especially re-linked from infowars.com; but none of the MSM's are running anything about it from my searches; a small blurb on AOL.com/huffpo was all I could find, but the link was messed up...)
And Congress has ok'd 30,000 of these to be flying in our airspace spying on citizens by 2020....
The "tin foil hatters" that spoke about this type of shit/NWO for the last decade or so and were scoffed at as "conspiraccy theorists" and "Nuts" aren't seeming too far out there now are they?
It's a scary time when our Gummints actions are starting to give the "tin foilers" rants credibility...
They already control just about every street corner, intersection, building in every major city with cameras/satellites- once we allow them total control of the skies above us (With drones capable of being weaponized); we have no dog in the fight for liberty.
Do any of you really think having drones constantly able to monitor us is a good idea? How hard would it be to weaponize these drones to utilize against undesireables?
It bogggles my mind that we are still just following suit waiting for our ultimate demise; complacent to be enslaved yet again. Showing up to work jobs to support the other 50% that won't show up; and continuing to pay taxes that go towards our further enslavement.
Getting us to literally fund our own enslavement; and we just follow along with it complaining all the way, but not willing to (re)act to rectify the situation; what the **** is wrong here?
And some of the biggest debates (Here on M4C and in society in general) are centered around homosexuality/gay rights, protecting our environment, professional sports, television programming, etc?
For **** sake people- all of our rights are being usurped regardless of creed, religion, sex, sexual orientation, right/left/center politics, race, etc- get over the petty shit and start being the free men so many fought and died for you to be; get the sand out of your vaginas and WAKE THE **** UP :shout:
Moose-Knuckle
06-05-12, 15:42
For what realistic constitutional reason would we need 30,000 drones in our skies? For what reason at all would we need them?
http://www.dailypaul.com/234428/spy-drone-almost-causes-mid-air-collision-with-jet-over-denver
I realize ^this isn;'t the best link (Especially re-linked from infowars.com; but none of the MSM's are running anything about it from my searches; a small blurb on AOL.com/huffpo was all I could find, but the link was messed up...)
And Congress has ok'd 30,000 of these to be flying in our airspace spying on citizens by 2020....
The "tin foil hatters" that spoke about this type of shit/NWO for the last decade or so and were scoffed at as "conspiraccy theorists" and "Nuts" aren't seeming too far out there now are they?
It's a scary time when our Gummints actions are starting to give the "tin foilers" rants credibility...
They already control just about every street corner, intersection, building in every major city with cameras/satellites- once we allow them total control of the skies above us (With drones capable of being weaponized); we have no dog in the fight for liberty.
Do any of you really think having drones constantly able to monitor us is a good idea? How hard would it be to weaponize these drones to utilize against undesireables?
It bogggles my mind that we are still just following suit waiting for our ultimate demise; complacent to be enslaved yet again. Showing up to work jobs to support the other 50% that won't show up; and continuing to pay taxes that go towards our further enslavement.
Getting us to literally fund our own enslavement; and we just follow along with it complaining all the way, but not willing to (re)act to rectify the situation; what the **** is wrong here?
And some of the biggest debates (Here on M4C and in society in general) are centered around homosexuality/gay rights, protecting our environment, professional sports, television programming, etc?
For **** sake people- all of our rights are being usurped regardless of creed, religion, sex, sexual orientation, right/left/center politics, race, etc- get over the petty shit and start being the free men so many fought and died for you to be; get the sand out of your vaginas and WAKE THE **** UP :shout:
I hear you bro and agree with you. In the name of "security" Americans are willingly giving up their freedom and the Federal Government is justifying one of its biggest power grabs to date.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/BenFranklinQuote.jpg
History shows us what is next . . .
davidjinks
06-05-12, 19:37
Gentlemen...everything will be A OKAY!!! Our government would never do anyth......
Man, it sucks that you can't even make a joke out of all this craziness!
On a lighter note:
Boeing unveiled a NEW drone capable for flying for 4 days straight on hydrogen power. Bastards can't even get a hydrogen powered car up and running...:rolleyes:
Also to note:
USAF just recently released a press statement that they launched a drone into space back in 2010 and 2011 that is solar powered and issue to touch down here in a few days. Some of the scuttlebutt capabilities it has...satellite jamming. That'd be the X37 in case anyone wants to look it up.
VooDoo6Actual
06-05-12, 20:14
I hear you Lima Charlie THCDD4.
I personally feel there are Trolls on this site data mining & shit stirring etc.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jun/7/big-brothers-all-seeing-eye/
Interesting the comments that were, and are being made under the article that Jay linked to above.
Is this the kind of dialogue you were looking for in this thread THCDDM4?
davidjinks
06-08-12, 08:17
Is there an issue you have with what's being said in those comments from the link?
Should those making/stating the comments not be allowed to speak freely?
Interesting the comments that were, and are being made under the article that Jay linked to above.
Is this the kind of dialogue you were looking for in this thread THCDDM4?
Is there an issue you have with what's being said in those comments from the link?
Should those making/stating the comments not be allowed to speak freely?
No. Not at all. I'm just as much a Patriot who will uphold the Constitution and fight for this country as much as anyone on this forum. My dad is from Cuba, so I have grown up hearing what a Communist country is really like. The people that you see with the signs who ask for Communism, who ask for handouts (really demand), and think the Gov knows best...really have no clue what they're asking for. I don't need to experience Communism first hand to know that I don't want any part of it....(just to give you some insight where I stand)
Excercising your 1st and 2nd ammendment rights is a God-given right in my mind.
My only hangup is that sometimes I just wonder, in this day and age, if a public forum is the place to have the dialogue that (I believe) THCDDM4 wants...which is why I would assume that we haven't charged down that path here...yet.
davidjinks
06-08-12, 09:25
Solid!
Thank you for your insight. I appreciate it.
No. Not at all. I'm just as much a Patriot who will uphold the Constitution and fight for this country as much as anyone on this forum. My dad is from Cuba, so I have grown up hearing what a Communist country is really like. The people that you see with the signs who ask for Communism, who ask for handouts (really demand), and think the Gov knows best...really have no clue what they're asking for. I don't need to experience Communism first hand to know that I don't want any part of it....(just to give you some insight where I stand)
Excercising your 1st and 2nd ammendment rights is a God-given right in my mind.
My only hangup is that sometimes I just wonder, in this day and age, if a public forum is the place to have the dialogue that (I believe) THCDDM4 wants...which is why I would assume that we haven't charged down that path here...yet.
Interesting the comments that were, and are being made under the article that Jay linked to above.
Is this the kind of dialogue you were looking for in this thread THCDDM4?
No. Not at all. I'm just as much a Patriot who will uphold the Constitution and fight for this country as much as anyone on this forum. My dad is from Cuba, so I have grown up hearing what a Communist country is really like. The people that you see with the signs who ask for Communism, who ask for handouts (really demand), and think the Gov knows best...really have no clue what they're asking for. I don't need to experience Communism first hand to know that I don't want any part of it....(just to give you some insight where I stand)
Excercising your 1st and 2nd ammendment rights is a God-given right in my mind.
My only hangup is that sometimes I just wonder, in this day and age, if a public forum is the place to have the dialogue that (I believe) THCDDM4 wants...which is why I would assume that we haven't charged down that path here...yet.
I had/have no agenda (Other than starting the thread and participating in whatever discussion was posited by the membership here) in starting this thread nor was I hoping for or attempting to direct the dialogue of this thread to go in any speific direction.
I Just wanted to open up the dialogue itself to the membership here and let the pieces fall as they may. There are a lot of- "this is the bullshit that is happening to us" threads; but not many "This is what we are going to do about the bullshit that is happening to us" threads. If you hadn't noticed I am a man who believes in action > inaction.
May I ask you what exactly makes you wonder/question if a public forum is the correct place to have the sort of dialogue/discussion you viewed on the washington times page comments section Jay35 linked?
I am not afraid to speak my mind on an internet forum, in public, directly to the faces of those that seek to oppress me further, etc- on any subject.
There may be ramifications to my actions but I am 100% willing to accept the consequences of being a free man. It's dangerous to be free; especially when living in a defacto totalitarian state teetering on the brink of collapse; but I am nothing if not a free man.
I will choose danger and freedom over safety and enslavement no matter the result- as that is the only way I believe is honroable to exist.
I am 100% for moving forward non-violently as I have stated in this thread; and I truly believe we could do so if we as free men united, picketed this gummint; didn't show up for work or pay taxes and let the other 50% see what they get- BUT- I highly doubt there would be enough willing to sacrifice even that much let alone stand to arms and fight.
If the productive/free men in this nation went on strike, the gummint would be forced to show their hand as they wouldn't have the resources to continue buying the votes they buy, and selling off our soverignty.
People are so complacent; even the ones who are in the know and somewhat "awake"; that I forsee us falling deeper in to this pit we have created for ourselves.
There in lies the dilemma for me, I am a non-violent person who has never raised a finger against others except when their actions against me required violent action on my part. We are being FORCED to react by the actions taken by the gummint against us; if we don't do something the time will be lost and true liberty will become but a footnote in the anals of history...
I just see the time table as running out; we will be under the thumb of the gummint if we allow 30,000 drones; allow any drones- to be utilized against us here at home. All the legislation is already in place to declare a national emergency, round up undesireables, end our freedoms to keep everyone "safe" in such drastic "emergency" times and end our Republic for good; the drones being one of the final peices of the puzzle in my perspective. YMMV.
I find myself agreeing with everything you say bro.
This is the way I see it...
We are on a road that has a T-intersection at the end. A "crossroad". You either go right or left (not a metaphor for politics in this case). The road has been fairly smooth up until maybe 10-20 (or maybe 30) years ago when people who have had their eyes open started to see some bumps in the road. That crossroad up ahead is the point where "something" will cause a call to action (hopefully peaceful action if possible) by those who have been watching these bumps in the road. This will cause "everyone else" to wake up and make a choice as well. At this point, there will only be a couple of options. You will still have those who will wait on, and WANT, the gov to make their decisions for them, to take care of them and give them what they "need", but those who have been awake knew this point would come along and will make the decision to take action and will be the front-runners in this choice, this course of action, whatever it may be. I imagine you will be one of those ;)
The drones, I think that is still just another bump...albeit a much larger bump, but I don't think we have made it to the crossroad yet. The November elections is another thing that should be watched closely...but I don't personally think that is the "crossroad" either. There are things that I will watch for in November and I think it will either be the point that we take a different path or just continue down this bumpy road...but I think that there is still some road left before we hit that certain point where we will all have to make a decision on what needs to be done.
I find myself agreeing with everything you say bro.
This is the way I see it...
We are on a road that has a T-intersection at the end. A "crossroad". You either go right or left (not a metaphor for politics in this case). The road has been fairly smooth up until maybe 10-20 (or maybe 30) years ago when people who have had their eyes open started to see some bumps in the road. That crossroad up ahead is the point where "something" will cause a call to action (hopefully peaceful action if possible) by those who have been watching these bumps in the road. This will cause "everyone else" to wake up and make a choice as well. At this point, there will only be a couple of options. You will still have those who will wait on, and WANT, the gov to make their decisions for them, to take care of them and give them what they "need", but those who have been awake knew this point would come along and will make the decision to take action and will be the front-runners in this choice, this course of action, whatever it may be. I imagine you will be one of those ;)
The drones, I think that is still just another bump...albeit a much larger bump, but I don't think we have made it to the crossroad yet. The November elections is another thing that should be watched closely...but I don't personally think that is the "crossroad" either. There are things that I will watch for in November and I think it will either be the point that we take a different path or just continue down this bumpy road...but I think that there is still some road left before we hit that certain point where we will all have to make a decision on what needs to be done.
Thanks for the perspective, it is appreciated. With all that has gone on in the last few years I get incredibly overwhelmed with each new piece of legislation and action against liberty and sometimes it's hard to see much further than the latest round of gummint BS.
I truly believe there is still hope, but for how long, I know not. The drones are very troublesome and in my mind one of the last few nails in the coffin before it is too late.
Privacy is a thing of the past now, and liberty is quickly being erroded, I just hope we haven't waited too long to do something about it.
davidjinks
06-12-12, 11:15
And no one's around, does it make a sound?
Apparently it does not...at least when the media is concerned.
http://www.google.com/m/search?q=drone+crashes+in+the+US&hl=en&client=safari&prmd=imvnsu&source=univ&tbm=nws&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=qmrXT7exBurG6AHMhNS6Aw&ved=0CBQQqAI
Moose-Knuckle
06-12-12, 15:39
And no one's around, does it make a sound?
Apparently it does not...at least when the media is concerned.
http://www.google.com/m/search?q=drone+crashes+in+the+US&hl=en&client=safari&prmd=imvnsu&source=univ&tbm=nws&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=qmrXT7exBurG6AHMhNS6Aw&ved=0CBQQqAI
Drone crash? What drone crash?
Duh, it was a weather balloon that crashed as a result of swamp gas. :sarcastic:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/14/opinion/rand-paul-drones/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/14/opinion/rand-paul-drones/index.html
^^
At least someone in congress is attempting to do something about this BS. One look at the comments on the link and you can see how blinded and debilitated by the media most citizens are.
We need sanity to make a BIG come back in 2012....
Moose-Knuckle
06-14-12, 23:03
^^
At least someone in congress is attempting to do something about this BS. One look at the comments on the link and you can see how blinded and debilitated by the media most citizens are.
We need sanity to make a BIG come back in 2012....
Agreed.
Hell, there are members here who will tell you that your tin foil hat is too tight all the while explaining away our rights in the name of the greater good.
"Oh, I'm not a terrorist or a narco so I have nothing to hide let them look all they want and you shouldn't have a problem with it either. B-a-a-a-B-a-a-a. . ." :suicide2:
Alaskapopo
06-14-12, 23:22
Been away a while due to illness and I am finally on the road to recovery so I thought I would start participating here at M4C again. Good to be back finally.
More and more drones (And more and more of us becomming "drones" as well...) being pushed by the Gummint to utilize here at home...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/22/drones-dhs-program-unmanned-aircraft-police_n_1537074.html
I used the link from Huffpo, not because it is a good source, but for members here to browse the comments section.
Man, is the writing on the wall or what? With all of the recent usurpations of freedom (I could list them, but this post would be huge and most of you already know what is going on and can connect the dots...); they aren't treading lightly anymore and if action isn't taken soon we are truly ****ed.
I always wondered what it would take for us (I mean the few in society that see what is going on, the games that are being played and the end to our liberty and sovereignty that is rapidly approaching) to unite, take to action and really fight this bullshit.
We have already enslaved our future generations in the form of insurmountable debt (Pushing our debt on future generations is defacto enslavement); now we just have to keep being complacent and not answering the call to action and we will be literal slaves within a decade; shit we're already subjects not citizens.
So what does it take? When will I or others here stand and fight? Seriously I have been asking myself this question a lot lately; I came close to being dispatched from this earth due to health problems and now that I am getting better, I feel it is time to act whilst there is still a chance we can make a difference; where the cards will fall is another question, a scary one to let rhuminate in the old noggin'...
So does the membership here at M4C believe the train is truly off the tracks and all we can do is hold on and watch it crash; or do you believe we can answer the proverbial call to action and right the wrongs of the last 100 years of sitting back and allowing the slow encroachment of our liberty?
I'm sick of the "head in sand mentality" that perpetuates this country, it is time to open up a realistic dialogue; not just about what is wrong and how pissed we are, but about how we as individuals and as groups WILL (re)act.
If you're not willing to (re)act (And I say "react" as this has been brewing for quite some time, the initial action being taken against us) or see no reason to, please elaborate as to why and how you came to that conclusion.
"Actioni contrariam semper et æqualem esse reactionem: sive corporum duorum actiones in se mutuo semper esse æquales et in partes contrarias dirigi."
Thoughts? Ideas? Criticisms?
Sounds like a tin foil hat speech to me. If you don't like the way things are going get out and vote, and protest make your voice heard. You don't just grab a gun and start shooting when you don't get your polticial way.
Sounds like a tin foil hat speech to me. If you don't like the way things are going get out and vote, and protest make your voice heard. You don't just grab a gun and start shooting when you don't get your polticial way.
I do vote and have protested many many times. I never said to grab a gun and go shooting. I said how are we going to "react", BIG difference.
By the way the MSM's blackout and or demonize any and all protests or movement that doesn't fit their agenda, fyi. It's not the 60's anymore. The media isn't journalism, just opinions and vitriol.
Several times in this thread I have posited my opinion that I want to act 100% non violent if you cared to read through...
When voting breaks down, protests go unheard and the media foments disunity amongst the citizens whilst the gummint conducts a massive power grab I should just vote and protest for show?
Sounds like someone has a "sand hat".
I am making my voice heard and trying to engage a serious debate about realistic actions that can be taken to try and steer this country back on the right path. Thats kinda what this whole thread is about.
Thanks for your perspective.
davidjinks
06-15-12, 13:42
You know, I gotta say the person you quoted, that's a typical response for many many many Americans these days.
It's quite comical actually.
I vote, as I'm sure 99.99% of the members here do. I voice my opinions to those that have been elected. I still for the life of me, haven't figured out if that's actually worked.
Wait...it hasn't because the government doesn't give a shit. No matter how you vote, protest, scream and yell the poop keeps flowing. Hence the thread topic of drones flying over this country monitoring US citizens.
I do vote and have protested many many times. I never said to grab a gun and go shooting. I said how are we going to "react", BIG difference.
By the way the MSM's blackout and or demonize any and all protests or movement that doesn't fit their agenda, fyi. It's not the 60's anymore. The media isn't journalism, just opinions and vitriol.
Several times in this thread I have posited my opinion that I want to act 100% non violent if you cared to read through...
When voting breaks down, protests go unheard and the media foments disunity amongst the citizens whilst the gummint conducts a massive power grab I should just vote and protest for show?
Sounds like someone has a "sand hat".
I am making my voice heard and trying to engage a serious debate about realistic actions that can be taken to try and steer this country back on the right path. Thats kinda what this whole thread is about.
Thanks for your perspective.
davidjinks
06-15-12, 13:49
Here's the problem I see with all of this...if I read everything correctly.
He isn't proposing a bill saying: HELL NO GOVERNMENT YOU AIN'T GONNA FLY DRONES AT ALL!!!
I read it as: Sure you can fly them. But if you want to get intel you need to go through the proper channels...PC, RAS, Warrants etc.
The problem I have with that is the Patriot Act says pretty much the same thing. It's a couple Federal judges that do closed door approvals without much to go on.
That's at least my take on it. If I'm off on my thoughts, let me know.
^^
At least someone in congress is attempting to do something about this BS. One look at the comments on the link and you can see how blinded and debilitated by the media most citizens are.
We need sanity to make a BIG come back in 2012....
GeorgiaBoy
06-15-12, 14:10
Here's the problem I see with all of this...if I read everything correctly.
He isn't proposing a bill saying: HELL NO GOVERNMENT YOU AIN'T GONNA FLY DRONES AT ALL!!!
I read it as: Sure you can fly them. But if you want to get intel you need to go through the proper channels...PC, RAS, Warrants etc.
The problem I have with that is the Patriot Act says pretty much the same thing. It's a couple Federal judges that do closed door approvals without much to go on.
That's at least my take on it. If I'm off on my thoughts, let me know.
It's a hell of a lot easier to pass a bill in the restricting drones, rather than outright completely banning them. Think of it as a stepping stone...
Alaskapopo
06-15-12, 14:38
You know, I gotta say the person you quoted, that's a typical response for many many many Americans these days.
It's quite comical actually.
I vote, as I'm sure 99.99% of the members here do. I voice my opinions to those that have been elected. I still for the life of me, haven't figured out if that's actually worked.
Wait...it hasn't because the government doesn't give a shit. No matter how you vote, protest, scream and yell the poop keeps flowing. Hence the thread topic of drones flying over this country monitoring US citizens.
Not quite government is a reflection of the people who put them in office. If you think nothing is happening it is because you don't have enough people on your side to vote. Frankly who cares about drones. If they followed me around they would get bored pretty fast as I have nothing to hide. What you do out in public is fair game and that is really the only place these drones will be able to see you.
Pat
Not quite government is a reflection of the people who put them in office. If you think nothing is happening it is because you don't have enough people on your side to vote. Frankly who cares about drones. If they followed me around they would get bored pretty fast as I have nothing to hide. What you do out in public is fair game and that is really the only place these drones will be able to see you.
Pat
I think you're missing the big picture...
No tin foil here, just someone who has looked at history, is looking at what is going on today, and can see a certain path that we are on and what that could possibly lead to in the future.
Who cares about drones? Everyone should care. If you think drones will only be used to look for "terrorists", then you are being blissfully naive. Do you care about The Patriot Act? The authority to (illegal) search and seizure and wire tap doesn't rest well with me. Some may say government will not abuse or misuse that power. I question why they even need it!
I don't like that our government has such little trust in its people that they need to establish methods of spying. Like the Patriot Act, drones in the sky could be used for a lot more than watching you go to wally world. They can easily become enforcement vehicles to ensure compliance with EPA and or FDA regulations. If thats okay, then maybe we should have cameras monitoring all highways to issue speeding tickets too. It's simply another invasion of privacy.
Big government, in conjunction with big corporations, continue to seize control of all our Constitutional rights. Like a boa constrictor, each new NDAA, peace time preparation act, international arms treaty and drone in the sky squeezes the life out of American liberty. Pappabear, you should care more.
Not quite government is a reflection of the people who put them in office. If you think nothing is happening it is because you don't have enough people on your side to vote. Frankly who cares about drones. If they followed me around they would get bored pretty fast as I have nothing to hide. What you do out in public is fair game and that is really the only place these drones will be able to see you.
Pat
Pat; just to clarify things a bit...
1) You are okay with your own government taxing you large sums of money to spy on you here in the USA? -WHEN WE DON'T EVEN HAVE THE MONEY TO KEEP THE COUNTRY GOING MUCH LONGER...
2) So you believe no one on the govt. level is thinking of utilizing the IR capabilities of these drones? What about weaponizing them...
3) It is okay to treat ALL citizens as criminals and keep an ever seeing eye on them, just because you have nothing to "Hide"... what about when the time comes that you do have something to "hide"; the govt. writes a lot of BS legislation- everyday; you may be on the wrong side of this argument someday, without being immoral or a criminal; ever think of that?
4) You really believe that our current Gummint is a direct refelction of America and it's citizens? PLEASE EXPLAIN FURTHER/DETAIL.
5) So what about taking it to the next level (As is always the case with Gummints); you have nothing to hide, so why not let the Govt. give you an anal exam to PROVE IT; but only when you are in a govt building/in public; that's okay right, you've got nothing to hide...
How about when they do decide to go IR with the drones; you've got nothing to "hide" in your home right, so why not let them just have their eyes there 100% of the time; nothing to hide right...
The fact you are an LEO and are okay with this type of overstep of our constitutional rights (The constitutional rights you took an oath to uphold; right?) is very perplexing to me. :confused:
Who cares about drones? Everyone should care. If you think drones will only be used to look for "terrorists", then you are being blissfully naive. Do you care about The Patriot Act? The authority to (illegal) search and seizure and wire tap doesn't rest well with me. Some may say government will not abuse or misuse that power. I question why they even need it!
I don't like that our government has such little trust in its people that they need to establish methods of spying. Like the Patriot Act, drones in the sky could be used for a lot more than watching you go to wally world. They can easily become enforcement vehicles to ensure compliance with EPA and or FDA regulations. If thats okay, then maybe we should have cameras monitoring all highways to issue speeding tickets too. It's simply another invasion of privacy.
Big government, in conjunction with big corporations, continue to seize control of all our Constitutional rights. Like a boa constrictor, each new NDAA, peace time preparation act, international arms treaty and drone in the sky squeezes the life out of American liberty. Pappabear, you should care more.
Excellent post and I agree 100%.
This is just one more small step towards government control and enslavement. They would never get away with taking all of our rights in one fell swoop, so they take a little here and a little there, all the while pacifying the public into thinking it’s “for our own good”. The boa constrictor just keeps on tightening a tiny bit at a time, until the time when enough people finally realize what’s going on and try to do something about it, and then it’s too late.
The funny thing is, this exact same method has been used over and over throughout history, yet we still don’t learn. And then when a few people realize what’s going on and try and speak up, they get labeled tin foil hat nut jobs.
Who cares about drones? That’s exactly what they want you to think.
Not quite government is a reflection of the people who put them in office. If you think nothing is happening it is because you don't have enough people on your side to vote. Frankly who cares about drones. If they followed me around they would get bored pretty fast as I have nothing to hide. What you do out in public is fair game and that is really the only place these drones will be able to see you.
Pat
I think the above is a rather naive statement that MAY have been appropriate some time ago. Today the government is far from a reflection of the general public. It's a reflection of those who choose and back candidates, which AFAIK is way above our pay grade. Do you honestly believe that aside from the color of their skin there was a difference between McCain and Obama? How about Romney and Obama?
If you studied history you'd care about drones and traffic cameras and all those mundane things that bore you. It's not about the drones it's about the increase in power you give to an entity which has repeatedly proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's incompetent, corrupt and willing to kill and destroy to have its way. Just ask Native Americans about the whole willing to kill part if you don't believe me or Japanese Americans about the ruined lives part.
It's sad to see intelligent people be so causal about their freedoms. Mind boggling for someone like myself whose family risked life, limb and fortune to have a chance at those freedoms only to see them whither away before the causal "I have nothing to hide" mantra.
Pat; just to clarify things a bit...
1) You are okay with your own government taxing you large sums of money to spy on you here in the USA? -WHEN WE DON'T EVEN HAVE THE MONEY TO KEEP THE COUNTRY GOING MUCH LONGER...
2) So you believe no one on the govt. level is thinking of utilizing the IR capabilities of these drones? What about weaponizing them...
3) It is okay to treat ALL citizens as criminals and keep an ever seeing eye on them, just because you have nothing to "Hide"... what about when the time comes that you do have something to "hide"; the govt. writes a lot of BS legislation- everyday; you may be on the wrong side of this argument someday, without being immoral or a criminal; ever think of that?
4) You really believe that our current Gummint is a direct refelction of America and it's citizens? PLEASE EXPLAIN FURTHER/DETAIL.
5) So what about taking it to the next level (As is always the case with Gummints); you have nothing to hide, so why not let the Govt. give you an anal exam to PROVE IT; but only when you are in a govt building/in public; that's okay right, you've got nothing to hide...
How about when they do decide to go IR with the drones; you've got nothing to "hide" in your home right, so why not let them just have their eyes there 100% of the time; nothing to hide right...
The fact you are an LEO and are okay with this type of overstep of our constitutional rights (The constitutional rights you took an oath to uphold; right?) is very perplexing to me. :confused:
So, FLIR on a drone is different that FLIR on a manned aircraft? Other than increased loiter times, I cant see the difference, really.
So, FLIR on a drone is different that FLIR on a manned aircraft? Other than increased loiter times, I cant see the difference, really.
To be honest I have hated those things as well, but in general tolerate them cause they are few and drain budgets while in the air, so they aren't used willy nilly. Drones by design are intended to be a cost effective way to surveil large areas, not to roll on a high speed chase or fugitive search. Ironically, the drone is the next step past the helicopter.
I'll stick to my opinion that these new "tools" to fight crime are anything but that. Want to fight crime eliminate criminals from society. It's not a difficult concept to grasp. Police today are quite adept at catching criminals. Sadly, their counterparts in the court system seem insistent on releasing them beck into our midst as quick as they can. What % of the people committing crimes today are repeat offenders??? You can increase the efficiency of the police till you're blue in the face, but unless someone finds a pair and removes criminals from circulation it's going to be same shit different decade, but with an even further shredded Constitution.
So, FLIR on a drone is different that FLIR on a manned aircraft? Other than increased loiter times, I cant see the difference, really.
If you really see no difference in 30,000 drones constantly in the air capable of spying on anyone anywhere for any reason with IR capabilities that can see into any building (not to mention the increased manueverability and being so small they can access more areas) being remote controlled and easily flown for days at a timE. Not to mention they spy without warrants and COULD be easily weaponized
VS.
A manned helo or other aerial vehicle...
I beleive you should get your head checked for trauma.
Thats like saying "there's no difference in having a govt. Controlled camera in your home vs. A satellite in space except the loitering time..."
It is beyond naive to think these drones will only be used for "good".
Can you give me any good reason as to why we need 30,000 -or- any amount of drones in our airspace?
What is the ROI for drones? What could we possibly benefit from spending so much to have these flying and spying constantly- no one has addressed this...
Littlelebowski
06-18-12, 11:59
I'll predict the ROI will end up being removing officers from the streets.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
I'll predict the ROI will end up being removing officers from the streets.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Can you please elaborate as to why the above would be a RETURN on our investment? Also what you believe could be potential pros/cons of fewer LEO's on the street with increased drone presence...
Another note worth mentioning in all of this is how militarized our LEA's have become; the drones just further the already rapidly increasing militirization of our LEA's.
Why is our police force constantly becomming more and more militarized? What's the ROI? What's the reasoning?
M4C Moderators/Staff if you feel the above underlined comments on the militirization of LEA's is inappropriate or doesn't belong on M4C; please PM me and I will delete it or feel free to delete it yourselves. To those that may post a response to the above reference to militirization/LEA's; please keep your posts appropriate and leave out the BS so this thread doesn't get locked. Thank you.
I am still waiting for someone to posit a realistic reason as to why we need the drones flying here in the first place. Why does the gummint need to have an all seeing eye in the sky constantly; and capable of much more than just "seeing"...
Littlelebowski
06-18-12, 13:24
Sorry, I trying to say that the drone's ROI (lower manpower costs, insurance, overtime, etc) will be used to justify paring down manpower. I absolutely agree with you on your other points but I like this forum and don't want to be banned as a "cop hater" so I'll try to stay out of the militarization of our police force discussion.
Sorry, I trying to say that the drone's ROI (lower manpower costs, insurance, overtime, etc) will be used to justify paring down manpower. I absolutely agree with you on your other points but I like this forum and don't want to be banned as a "cop hater" so I'll try to stay out of the militarization of our police force discussion.
Understood. Thanks.
I would think most LEO's working the streets would not be very happy to hear that increased use of drones might possibly equate to decreases in actual "living/human" police force/street presence; I may be wrong though...
Alaskapopo
06-18-12, 18:01
Understood. Thanks.
I would think most LEO's working the streets would not be very happy to hear that increased use of drones might possibly equate to decreases in actual "living/human" police force/street presence; I may be wrong though...
I won't be worried until they can investigate and arrest criminals, which I don't think is coming any time soon.
pat
I won't be worried until they can investigate and arrest criminals, which I don't think is coming any time soon.
pat
It is much closer than you may think...
There are already Police-bots being utilized in several countries (Including the USA) in the world and the technology is moving forward by leaps and bounds (Thanks to military drone/robot technology and especially DARPA); it isn't too far-fetched to believe that the tech will facilitate a "Robo-cop" in the near future. Heck- some believe the "Singularity" is just around the corner; coming in 10-15 years; and the exponential curve/evolution of technology suggests we are very close as well...
http://science.howstuffworks.com/police-robot.htm\
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2007/08/armed-robots-so/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/01/police_robot_burns_down_house/
http://future.wikia.com/wiki/Robotics
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/science/july-dec10/robots_10-29.html
http://www.wisegeek.com/how-close-are-we-to-developing-cyborgs.htm
http://singularityhub.com/2011/08/31/canadian-cyborg-documents-the-reality-behind-todays-cyborg-tech/
http://mashable.com/2012/04/16/darpa-robot-climbs-stairs/
http://gigaom.com/2012/03/04/be-nice-to-robots-they-might-be-your-neighbors-soon/
http://singularity.com/
http://www.floatingpath.com/2012/04/15/asimo-worlds-advanced-humanoid-robot/
http://techland.time.com/2012/01/25/german-scientists-teach-advanced-robots-to-play-baseball/
I do understand your point however. Thanks.
Cut the size of the Active Component in half.
Double the sized of the RC.
Increase the size, scope, and usage of the drone program - piss us off, and we use drones to 'shock and awe' you. No occupation, just break all your shit until the next time you act up.
The Air Force needs more drones and strategic lift - not the F-22. What war are they going to use the F-22 in?
VooDoo6Actual
06-19-12, 20:46
Said it here many times, Big Fookin train coming...
Some people don't get it. When A candidate lies or breaks his pledge to the people who voted him in & congress is unwilling to act how does a voting process help that ? When Federal Agents lie w/ stats, figures, reports how does that help ? There use to be checks & balances that were part of your Republic that were put there for a reason. When they are paralyzed or unchecked how does that help ? There are players in the deck of cards that are NOT elected. Those cards get picked & played. i.e. Holder et al (look at his past) by the elected candidates for a reason. The system is gamed period. There is an agenda. When LE are retired & replaced, reduced & Federalized to more a automated surveillance & DARPA's TIA (Total Information Awareness program), they will have the same rights as the lowly serfs do, perhaps it will occur to them, perhaps....
Contrary to popular opinion here, I'm not some kind of government crony or an unequivocal apologist for its actions. I have serious issues with the trend toward a police-state and the illegal encroachments on civil-liberties that are coming at us increasingly quickly. Let me be clear: I do not want 30,000 drones patrolling America's airspace.
Where I differ is that I don't think we've hit a point of no return. And I don't think the trend is as pervasive or as irreversible (within our current political framework) as many of you do.
There's a general tendency on this forum (not necessarily on this particular issue) to invent conspiracy where this is none, to grossly and irrationally misinterpret evidence, and to erroneously extrapolate implications of events - usually by failing to correctly identify correlation vs causation. Again, these are general trends. The specifics have been hashed out in numerous threads I've taken part in.
My question is this:
If you REALLY think it's so bad, if you REALLY think we need a revolution that works outside of the current political framework, what is your excuse for not taking up arms already?
If I truly believed the state of national affairs was anything like some of you (HOPLOETHOS for one, but there are others) purport it to be, I WOULD BE SHOOTING ALREADY.
If you truly believe the things you're saying, what is your excuse?
Contrary to popular opinion here, I'm not some kind of government crony or an unequivocal apologist for its actions. I have serious issues with the trend toward a police-state and the illegal encroachments on civil-liberties that are coming at us increasingly quickly. Let me be clear: I do not want 30,000 drones patrolling America's airspace.
Where I differ is that I don't think we've hit a point of no return. And I don't think the trend is as pervasive or as irreversible (within our current political framework) as many of you do.
There's a general tendency on this forum (not necessarily on this particular issue) to invent conspiracy where this is none, to grossly and irrationally misinterpret evidence, and to erroneously extrapolate implications of events - usually by failing to correctly identify correlation vs causation. Again, these are general trends. The specifics have been hashed out in numerous threads I've taken part in.
My question is this:
If you REALLY think it's so bad, if you REALLY think we need a revolution that works outside of the current political framework, what is your excuse for not taking up arms already?
If I truly believed the state of national affairs was anything like some of you (HOPLOETHOS for one, but there are others) purport it to be, I WOULD BE SHOOTING ALREADY.
If you truly believe the things you're saying, what is your excuse?
And I agree; we have not reached that point quite yet, and working within the framework of our cinstitution I believe we CAN still shift the balance and get back on a logical path to liberty and prosperity.
That being said; I believe the sand in the hour glass is running out rapidly and we need to discuss and debate where we stand in this sort of sociopolitical climate and how we can act; together to change it- In the form of non-violent direct action.
And also to discuss where to go from there if the gummint continues to ignore its constiuents, continues the corrupt back door dealings, continues the advance against our libirties, etc, etc, etc.
So let me ask; what do you personally define as "the point of no return" when it is time to revolt and rebuild?
At what point has it gone too far yet we still have a chance to change things; with the technology that is here and on the way, I just don't think we have time to sit on our hands, at the very least we need to start realistically debating our options before they are gone.
The ACLU is also worried about potential drones malfunctioning and falling from the sky, adding that they are keeping a close eye on the use of these unmanned aircraft by police departments.
I had to marvel at this, of all the BS kicked up by these freaking commies, all of the standing in for deviant this, and deviant that, this was they're main objection to the use of drones? :dance3:
Littlelebowski
06-20-12, 21:51
I had to marvel at this, of all the BS kicked up by these freaking commies, all of the standing in for deviant this, and deviant that, this was they're main objection to the use of drones? :dance3:
Deviants are far outnumbered by the government and the ACLU in some chapters, has embraced the Second Amendment. I'd be happy to cite some links for you.
Moose-Knuckle
06-20-12, 22:51
I had to marvel at this, of all the BS kicked up by these freaking commies, all of the standing in for deviant this, and deviant that, this was they're main objection to the use of drones?
It may not be the end of the world as we know it BUT, according to post #38 on page 2 of this thread . . .
If a drone crashes in the US. . . .
And no one's around, does it make a sound?
Apparently it does not...at least when the media is concerned.
http://www.google.com/m/search?q=drone+crashes+in+the+US&hl=en&client=safari&prmd=imvnsu&source=univ&tbm=nws&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=qmrXT7exBurG6AHMhNS6Aw&ved=0CBQQqAI
lifebreath
06-25-12, 15:34
From Fox News, control of drones can be subverted by GPS spoofing:
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/06/25/drones-vulnerable-to-terrorist-hijacking-researchers-say/
From Fox News, control of drones can be subverted by GPS spoofing:
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/06/25/drones-vulnerable-to-terrorist-hijacking-researchers-say/
I remember reading an article stating Iran was successful in hacking and downing/landing a drone (without damaging it even) as well...
Whatever GPS system they operate on is open to hacking, just as the frequencies they are controlled on are; may be some high tech encrypted shit, but give a few tech savy geeks enough time and no hack is impossible.
davidjinks
06-26-12, 06:29
These high speed egg heads should be very careful with what they're saying/asking for.
Imagine the gov coming in and saying: The civilian GPS system isn't secure enough. We're gonna lock that shit down. Oh, your GPS reliant system doesn't work now? .................
That's of course all just my opinion.
more on drones in civilian space
http://defense.aol.com/2012/06/29/new-army-sense-and-avoid-gear-may-mean-drones-can-fly-safely-i/?utm_source=June+30+BTW&utm_campaign=BTW+June+30&utm_medium=email
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davidjinks
06-30-12, 16:22
The thing that no one seems to be keying in on is this…
MILITARY Drones!
I have yet to see any PD (Local or State) pay someone to build a Drone for them.
All of the Drones that are going to be flying are MILITARY.
EDITED TO ADD: Civilian PDs using their own money to buy a non-military type drone for use. This does not cover free money from the fed gov for already contracted in use drones.
Maybe that'll help...
more on drones in civilian space
http://defense.aol.com/2012/06/29/new-army-sense-and-avoid-gear-may-mean-drones-can-fly-safely-i/?utm_source=June+30+BTW&utm_campaign=BTW+June+30&utm_medium=email
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Alaskapopo
06-30-12, 17:53
And I agree; we have not reached that point quite yet, and working within the framework of our cinstitution I believe we CAN still shift the balance and get back on a logical path to liberty and prosperity.
That being said; I believe the sand in the hour glass is running out rapidly and we need to discuss and debate where we stand in this sort of sociopolitical climate and how we can act; together to change it- In the form of non-violent direct action.
And also to discuss where to go from there if the gummint continues to ignore its constiuents, continues the corrupt back door dealings, continues the advance against our libirties, etc, etc, etc.
So let me ask; what do you personally define as "the point of no return" when it is time to revolt and rebuild?
At what point has it gone too far yet we still have a chance to change things; with the technology that is here and on the way, I just don't think we have time to sit on our hands, at the very least we need to start realistically debating our options before they are gone.
Really?
It amazes me at how paranoid people can be. Technology can be used for a lot of good in law enforcement and there is no reason to simply ban it. I say make it the same as getting a search warrant.
Alaskapopo
06-30-12, 17:56
Deviants are far outnumbered by the government and the ACLU in some chapters, has embraced the Second Amendment. I'd be happy to cite some links for you.
I may not agree with every cause the ACLU supports but they have done some good work.
Pat
Littlelebowski
06-30-12, 18:32
The thing that no one seems to be keying in on is this…
MILITARY Drones!
I have yet to see any PD (Local or State) pay someone to build a Drone for them.
All of the Drones that are going to be flying are MILITARY.
Wrong. Dead wrong.
http://www.click2houston.com/news/New-Police-Drone-Near-Houston-Could-Carry-Weapons/-/1735978/4717922/-/59xnnez/-/index.html
davidjinks
06-30-12, 18:39
So they got a grant (From the federal gov) to buy an already contracted military drone helicopter.
I guess if you want to play semantics.....
Wrong. Dead wrong.
http://www.click2houston.com/news/New-Police-Drone-Near-Houston-Could-Carry-Weapons/-/1735978/4717922/-/59xnnez/-/index.html
Moose-Knuckle
06-30-12, 19:22
The thing that no one seems to be keying in on is this…
MILITARY Drones!
I have yet to see any PD (Local or State) pay someone to build a Drone for them.
All of the Drones that are going to be flying are MILITARY.
EDITED TO ADD: Civilian PDs using their own money to buy a non-military type drone for use. This does not cover free money from the fed gov for already contracted in use drones.
Maybe that'll help...
Not just DOD, but NSA, and NRO.
Littlelebowski
06-30-12, 19:38
So they got a grant (From the federal gov) to buy an already contracted military drone helicopter.
I guess if you want to play semantics.....
You are defining "playing semantics."
USAF Drones Trail Civilian Auto Traffic in New Mexico - Atlantic
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/07/air-force-drones-trail-civilian-auto-traffic-in-new-mexico/259517/
---
Moose-Knuckle
07-06-12, 15:47
USAF Drones Trail Civilian Auto Traffic in New Mexico - Atlantic
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/07/air-force-drones-trail-civilian-auto-traffic-in-new-mexico/259517/
---
"Breaker! Breaker! Breaker! Bandit this is the Iceman, you have a Smokey Predator on your tail good buddy".
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-06-12, 23:42
I'm picturing a quad shotgun set-up like an ZSU or a quad 50 from WWII.
PUuuuLLLLL!!!
Thanks to some of the drone discussions a few months ago I caught the RC aircraft bug. One of the newest one is a Mig 15 with some electronics to make it wasier to fly in windy conditions. $100 + a transmitter and you're in business.
Be interesting to report to your superiors that you lost the drone to a high speed kamikaze attack by a bright red Mig 15.
Fresh update on drones: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-06/guest-post-drones-america-they-are-already-here
montanadave
12-06-12, 22:19
"Gorgon Stare" surveillance?
the "Mind's Eye" project?
It all sounds like Cyberdyne's ****in' Skynet.
**** the "Who is John Galt" bullshit.
Where the hell is John Conner?
Another new post on drones: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-05/dear-american-its-extraordinary-circumstance-and-drones-coming-you
Attny Gnrl declares president has power to target American citizens on US soil w/o due process.
Moose-Knuckle
03-06-13, 04:11
FAA investigates drone sighting over JFK
http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/pilot-reports-drone-sighting-jfk-121603290--abc-news-topstories.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/23/us/us-acknowledges-killing-4-americans-in-drone-strikes.html?_r=0
From the article:
"The American responsibility for Mr. Awlaki’s death has been widely reported, but the administration had until now refused to confirm or deny it.
The letter also said that the United States had killed three other Americans: Samir Khan, who was killed in the same strike; Mr. Awlaki’s son Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, who was also killed in Yemen; and Jude Mohammed, who was killed in a strike in Pakistan."
-End article blurb-
How this administration isn't considered a terrorist orginization themselves is beyond me...
:angry:
VooDoo6Actual
05-22-13, 17:10
Just wait lots more coming
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