View Full Version : SIONICS Weapon Systems
K.L. Davis
05-26-12, 16:30
I have spent the last several months working with SIONICS Weapon Systems and wanted to take a moment to let everyone know what is going on here.
Some of you may have heard the name in the past... SIONICS started here in Tucson a couple of years ago; the originator of SIONICS wanted to make the best, no-nonsense carbine that you could get for a reasonable price and his dedication to that has lead to some pretty interesting products. Around the first of this year SIONICS moved into a new production facility and we pulled a great deal of the production in-house. The basic idea is simple: I was talking with a good friend one day when he commented that the AR is really just a barrel, bolt and trigger – and that if those parts are all good, the rifle will be good.
So, when developing the new lineup of SIONICS rifles, we focused on those three parts: the core of the rifle.
The barrels blanks are made to our drawing, they are all certified 11595E 41V50 steel and the brunt of our new rifles all use a 16 inch, 1:8, mid-length gas system barrel. Of course they all use NATO chambering and are hard chrome lined. We bring the barrels in and have them radiographed (x-ray) in two positions and the mag-particle inspected. The barrels are then manganese phosphated and if required a F-marked FSB is installed. Every barrel is test fired for function and accuracy... any barrel that does not make it all the way through is rejected.
The bolts are all current contract parts and are 100% HP tested and MP inspected, bolts are all shot peened and use the heavy extractor spring, black insert and o-ring. All of our bolt carriers are contract M16 parts, carrier keys are side staked and the carrier and key are NP3 plated.
The trigger is an after market single-stage design, that breaks at 4.5 – 5 lbs and has a very short, positive reset. The upper and lower receivers are of course 7075-T6 and Type III anodized with a dark black dye treatment.
Very solid rifles.
All Patrol Rifles features a 16" barrel with the popular Mid-Length gas system... other standard feature of the Patrol I include:
7075 Forged, M4 Upper Receiver Assembly
16" 41V50, Hard Chrome lined, 5.56mm NATO, 1:8 Barrel
Mid-Length Gas System
Forged "F" Marked Front Sight Base
A2 Flash Suppressor
Magpul MOE Handguard
Mil-Spec Bolt Assembly with Nickel/PTFE Carrier
7075 Charging Handle
Magpul MBUS Rear Sight
7075 Forged Lower Receiver
SIONICS Lower Parts Kit w/Precision LE Trigger
Magpul MOE Grip and Trigger Bow
Mil-Spec Receiver Extension Tube
True "H" Buffer and Mil-Spec Action Spring
Magpul MOE Stock
http://m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=117&pictureid=2703
I find the choice of 1:8 barrel twist interesting. I can recall seeing at least one well respected individual on this forum post a while back that he would like to see that twist rate become more popular.
1:8 simply makes sense to have. Good to see that its a midlength too. What barrel profile is it?
K.L. Davis
05-26-12, 18:08
I drew the barrel up... I call it a lighter than medium weight, it balances well. There are a couple of members here that have shot the rifles, maybe they can give some opinion.
Very good assessment of what an AR essentially is.
Because inquiring minds want to know-
-what method of manufacture was used to produce the barrels?
-can you tell us who makes the barrel?
-are the barrels proofed?
-when will they be available?
-how much are they going to sell for?
-are they going to be available in taupe? :ph34r::dance3:
Give me a day or so to collect my thoughts. I have been working behind the scenes and I actually used one of the carbines during the Magpul Dynamics Course in Tucson back in April.
Intriguing, any possibility of a Dissipator-sytle upper?
I prefer carbine length gas systems as I've found mid-lengths to be a bit finickier than carbine gas systems but I'd be willing to give the middy 1:8 barrel a try.
eternal24k
05-27-12, 08:06
Looking forward to pics, prices, and some reports.
I am a huge fan of 1/8, the barrel sounds like a winner.
Does the 18.5" PMR barrel accept the OPS 12th model collar?
Nightvisionary
05-27-12, 12:54
Is this affiliated with the orginal Sionics corporation started by Mitch WerBell?
Looks like a good quality, well thought out offering.
I would be interested in buying a barrel in the future.
Now is my time to throw my .02 cents in place. Back in April I was able to attend the Magpul Dynamics Carbine course taught by Steve Fisher and hosted by Tucson Guns. Steve and the guys from Tucson Guns were great.
I have been working behind the scenes with K.L Davis and the owner of Sionics Weaponry providing input and advice while I was working overseas the last few months.
I was asked to use one of their rifles during the course to provide my input and to help put some more rounds through the weapon. For the class I selected the Patrol III XL. The specs on this were as follows;
1. 16" mid length barrel made from 4150 CMV with an A2 flash hider.
2. Samson 15" Evolution rail with 3 rail segments in place.
3. M4 marked flat top upper receiver.
4. Magpul Gen II front and rear BUIS.
5. Milspec BCG HP/MPI tested with black Ion bonding. (This was very interesting as I don't usually care for those "fancy" coatings and a USGI standard charging handle.
6. Sionics lower receiver with Mapgul SRT stock, MOE pistol grip, trigger guard and JARD LE trigger system. Buffer was an H with a standard M4 buffer spring.
I did a quick visual inspection of the rifle, lubed it with Froglube and then added a few of my own accessories. I didn't care for the ambi sling plate that was on it. Not only was it in my way, I don't care much for single point slings. I ended up wrenching it off with the help of Kino and then added my Vickers sling, PRI charging handle (no spare BCM at the time) Tango Down VFG and a borrowed Aimpoint Micro T-1 with a 2 MOA dot (thanks again Steve).
I was told that it had already been fired so it was somewhat broken in. As anyone who knows about shooting in a Magpul class, that won't last long as you will be putting rounds down range in no time.
For the class I used a variety of GI aluminum magazines, Mapgul mags, Gen I Lancers and the always maligned Surefire magazines. All magazines did exactly what they should have and dropped free when released. The Surefire mags proved to be boringly reliable and thus far I have (3) of them. One has at least 1K rounds through it, and the others a few hundred. Prices are dropping and I encourage you to grab at least one.
Back to the carbine. I was surprised by the Samson rail. It was very solid and lightweight. The rifle balanced out very nicely and due to that extra bit of rail I was easily able to reach my off hand out there. Those with long arms will definitely appreciate it.
I fired well over 700 rounds in the approx. 2 days that I used the carbine. The temps were well into the low 90's and it stayed warm. The rail stayed surprisingly cool even when slinging alot of rounds down range. During that time I used surplus Lake City M855, Hornady 75gr. Steel TAP and some M193. All ammo fired 100% and there were zero malfunctions of any kind during the course. I was a little surprised to say the least. In the back of my mind I somehow want something to happen so I can (a) work on it, (b) see what the hell happened.
After the conclusion of the course, I was able to take the rifle with me to do some additional shooting. I wanted to test it out with a Battle Comp, an A5 set up and do some more informal shooting. More about that later.
In all the carbine handled very well, was very pleasant to shoot, and was more than accurate. Most of you know I could care less what kind of groups I get off the bench. What matters to me is that the weapon works and that I can put rounds where they need to go and it did exactly that. I did not clean the weapon at all. I simply hit it with some FrogLube and shot it. When I took the BCG out of the weapon at the end of the class, I was shocked. There was virtually no carbon the the BCG at all. The Froglube and combination of the Ion bond was simply amazing.
One thing I didn't care for was the JARD trigger and I believe that issue is being looked at. Additionally no carbine or rifle is complete without a BCM charging handle. There simply is no place for a regular USGI handle in 2012. I have also recommended that Sionics look at offering the Battle Arms selector lever with all of their carbines and rifles. Those who have used them can attest for the high quality. During the Magpul course on thing I missed was the Battle Arms 45 degree lever on my other AR's.
If you are in AZ or passing through I encourage you to contact Kino or the guys at Sionics to learn more. They are very customer oriented which is something that seems to lack nowadays. In addition to complete rifles and carbines they also have lowers for sale, uppers and parts. I believe that barrels are also going to be available as well.
Also in the very near future we are going to be offering an Armorer Course that will be taught by myself. The class will be 2 days long and it will be open to everyone. Civilians, LE, and military. There is nothing "top secret" going on in those classes and with the amount of people building carbines, it is essential to learn the Do's and Don'ts as well as the nuts and bolts of how to put one together and keep it running. I can guarantee that you will learn something. Classes will be taught locally as well as anywhere that someone wants within reason. Below is a link the Youtube video I did, describing some features and the performance of the carbine. Also a pic of me shooting and how the carbine was set up for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmdjZYdhDS0&feature=g-all-u
12342
12343
Is your beard made out of Kevlar like Costa?
QuietShootr
05-28-12, 09:56
Good writeup, and sounds interesting for sure. If nothing else I'd love to have a SIONICS marked lower just because - especially if there is a WerBell actually involved here.
As an aside: Holy ****, dude, what's your sleeve length??
It's a proprietary secret and has to keep that way until my patent is approved.:D
Is your beard made out of Kevlar like Costa?
About 35" or so. But, I like to be able to reach out and hold on to the carbine/rifle when I am shooting and this rail actually allows me to do so comfortably.
Good writeup, and sounds interesting for sure. If nothing else I'd love to have a SIONICS marked lower just because - especially if there is a WerBell actually involved here.
As an aside: Holy ****, dude, what's your sleeve length??
Gorilla's have long arms.:D
Ned Christiansen
05-28-12, 23:24
I saw this and said hey, awesome! A vid with IG in it, it'll be good to put a face with the name. Then I saw the face.:D
Just kidd'n'..... good stuff, great to see you putting your knowledge to good use with a reputable mfgr.
sinlessorrow
05-28-12, 23:34
It's a proprietary secret and has to keep that way until my patent is approved.:D
I've always wondered what the revered Iraqgunz looked like....now I find out he has a super secret squirrel beard:neo:
good review and very nice rifle
polymorpheous
05-29-12, 00:21
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't x-ray testing considered a destructive test, whereas MPI is a non-destructive test?
What effects do the the 2 x-ray test have on the barrel?
Dwsmitht343
05-29-12, 03:56
Polymorphous
The NON-destructive testing of welds that I have been exposed to involves x-ray. This includes high pressure fittings or boiler tube welds. I know that there are some x-ray devices that are very powerful for industrial use. I am not an expert in industrial X-ray but I am comfortable saying that for inspection purposes I doubt the X-ray would be harmful to the part being examined.
polymorpheous
05-29-12, 04:20
Polymorpheous
The NON-destructive testing of welds that I have been exposed to involves x-ray. This includes high pressure fittings or boiler tube welds. I know that there are some x-ray devices that are very powerful for industrial use. I am not an expert in industrial X-ray but I am comfortable saying that for inspection purposes I doubt the X-ray would be harmful to the part being examined.
I'm a welder too.
I always was told that x-ray inspection was a form of DT.
I've never looked at the AWS literature regarding this.
I've also had some bumbling morons for CWI's so for all I know 90% of what they told me could be BS.
K.L. Davis
05-29-12, 12:54
I just read through the thread and will try to answer the questions that have come up.
The rifles are available now - more info is on the website at www.sionicsweaponsystems.com (http://www.sionicsweaponsystems.com)
SIONICS Weapon Systems is not affiliated with the old SIONICS founded by Mitch WerBell
The PMR barrel is not stepped for the OPSInc collar... for now anyway.
All carbine barrel blanks come from a premium manufacturer, they are all made from 11595E 41V50 steel and certs are provided with every order. They are heat-treated and stress relieved. They are button drawn and are hard chrome lined. Every barrel is air-gauged, inspected for straightness, and bore scoped before they are shipped to us - we have a very high reject rate on the blanks. SIONICS barrels are designed for maximum reliability, durability and accuracy - we believe this method of manufacture provides the best combination of these.
SIONICS barrels are not tested with a high pressure proof round, our barrels are premium barrels and with the level of testing and QC inspections they go through, there is no reason to subject the barrel to an HP test.
According to the American Society for Non-Destructive Testing, "penetrating radiation" is a non-destructive test method. We chose to X-Ray the barrels after many, many hours of discussion with both barrel makers and Non-Destructive Engineers. We feel that X-Ray testing gives us a look at the barrels that no other single test can match. X-Ray is for sure not the fastest or cheapest test method, but we believe that by taking the extra measure to X-Ray 100% of our barrels is two positions (0 deg and 90 deg), we are able to say that SIONICS barrels undergo a stringent quality control process that is equal to or exceeds any other manufacturer's QC process.
All of our barrels are also Magnetic Particle Inspected to ensure that every barrel is free from defects.
All bolt carriers are contract M16 carriers, they are all plated with Ion-Bond or NP3 plating, so far testing has shown both process to produce superior results.
The pull weight of the trigger was increased slightly to 5.0 lbs to comply with a recent agency's requirements during purchase.
You would think that there would be a "kino config" of the rifle, both 12.5 and 16 inch versions... I mean, it just seems natural.
I am not sure what taupe is, but if it is close to FDE... yes, they are available in FDE.
IG's beard was X-Rayed too... I can not disclose what was found living in it.
AZ-Renegade
05-29-12, 15:06
Good to see a quality AR company in Arizona. I may just buy local for my next rifle.
Any plans for factory SBR configurations and short barrel uppers?
DeltaSierra
05-30-12, 00:41
thanks for posting this information. i first heard about sionics when they made it onto rob's chart, but after reading this thread i'm even more interested...
A couple of questions on your barrel Xray procedure.
1. Why MPI after X-raying? If I understand correctly, this is the same X-ray method mentioned in previous HPT vs. non-HPT threads where some members, including Grant IINM, stated that it was THE surest way to find any and all imperfections on the metal... If so, shouldn't the Xray by itself be enough?
2. Why not subject the bolts to the same Xray test as opposed to the traditional HPT/MPI?
I met up with Will right after he drove home from the Magpul class. He showed me the rifle, and after handling it it is indeed lightweight and very quick handling. With the long hand guard there's just about unlimited space for what ever you are going to put on it, and for using irons, the farther they are apart the better.
On looking at the bolt carrier assembly, pretty much the only thing on it I saw was oil.
Once they finalize everything, it will be definitely good to go.
Are you guys going to offer the 16" mid length rifles/uppers with any other rail options besides the Samson rails ? Can they be ordered with Daniel Defense or Centurion rails ?
Give me a day or so to collect my thoughts. I have been working behind the scenes and I actually used one of the carbines during the Magpul Dynamics Course in Tucson back in April.
Looks like you made that visit!
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=85737&highlight=sionics
Glad to hear you and others are having positive experiences.
Sure nuff! There seems to be alot of focus on attention to detail and making sure that quality items are being used. I remember seeing some bolt carriers recently when I was there that were sent back because they were semi and not auto as specified.
I am sure that some others would have used them regardless.
Looks like you made that visit!
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=85737&highlight=sionics
Glad to hear you and others are having positive experiences.
K.L. Davis
06-01-12, 00:22
A couple of questions on your barrel Xray procedure.
1. Why MPI after X-raying? If I understand correctly, this is the same X-ray method mentioned in previous HPT vs. non-HPT threads where some members, including Grant IINM, stated that it was THE surest way to find any and all imperfections on the metal... If so, shouldn't the Xray by itself be enough?
I am not a non-destructive engineer, nor do I play one on the Internet. When we talked to real NDEs about the process we were told that MPI after X-Ray - while not common - was not redundant.
2. Why not subject the bolts to the same Xray test as opposed to the traditional HPT/MPI?
The barrels are finished and tested in house, so we can make the choice for testing procedures - bolts are purchased from a contract supplier and are provided already HP and MPI tested.
X-Ray and MPI will detect different types of defects
I am not a non-destructive engineer, nor do I play one on the Internet. When we talked to real NDEs about the process we were told that MPI after X-Ray - while not common - was not redundant.
The barrels are finished and tested in house, so we can make the choice for testing procedures - bolts are purchased from a contract supplier and are provided already HP and MPI tested.
Thanks for responding. Best of luck to you guys and I look forward to seeing more offerings from SIONICS.
Just wondering if there has been updates or range reports on the Sionics lately?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't x-ray testing considered a destructive test, whereas MPI is a non-destructive test?
What effects do the the 2 x-ray test have on the barrel?
Very non-destructive. It's the same as what you get at the doctor. No possible way to affect steel at all.
A couple of questions on your barrel Xray procedure.
1. Why MPI after X-raying? If I understand correctly, this is the same X-ray method mentioned in previous HPT vs. non-HPT threads where some members, including Grant IINM, stated that it was THE surest way to find any and all imperfections on the metal... If so, shouldn't the Xray by itself be enough?
2. Why not subject the bolts to the same Xray test as opposed to the traditional HPT/MPI?
MPI is actually better for IDing cracks on the surface than RT (radiographic testing(X-ray)).
RT is good for IDing differences in cross-sectional density. Basically any material other than the steel being looked at will show up as a different shade on the film. If you have an air void (porosity) it will show up as a dark dot, tungsten inclusions for example, will show up as white dots. Cracks are not reliably detected by RT unless the crack is aligned between the source and the film, you can't 'see' the side of a crack since it does not change the cross-sectional density.
An AR bolt would be difficult to RT because of the complex shape and small size (not to mention expensive), pretty much impossible to UT (ultrasonic) again due to the complex shape, so basically blasting it with a hot round and checking it for cracks is about the only cheap way to inspect it after it's made.
I really like that you went with the Samson EVO, I think it's the best of its kind. Great to see companies working with professional badasses like Iraq Gunz himself as well ;)
Looks like a well thought out ar. I'm glad someone took the time to sit down(or talk across an ocean)with a manufacturer so they they could get it right the first time.
IG:
As a side note, I would like to know if I can purchase bcg's with the coatings you covered in the video.
Looks like a well thought out ar. I'm glad someone took the time to sit down(or talk across an ocean)with a manufacturer so they they could get it right the first time.
IG:
As a side note, I would like to know if I can purchase bcg's with the coatings you covered in the video.
I wondered the same thing. you can on their website for around $200 I haven't looked for a reseller yet.
It makes me happy to see new manufacturers of the Ar. The website is very well put together and it gives me a detailed description of all the essential parts in the rifle. I also like the logo, it kinda reminds me of the umbrella logo from resident evil. I will happily support Sionics Weapon Systems. Btw, nice write up IG.
I believe they have BCGs with Robars NP3 on the website.
Looks like a well thought out ar. I'm glad someone took the time to sit down(or talk across an ocean)with a manufacturer so they they could get it right the first time.
IG:
As a side note, I would like to know if I can purchase bcg's with the coatings you covered in the video.
I just checked out the site.
That 16" 1/8 medium/light 1/8 barrel is pretty much exactly what I've been wishing someone would make.
Any plans for a 14.5" 1/8 midlength?
I have a brand new Colt upper beggin' for a barrel!
vicious_cb
09-21-12, 05:43
SIONICS Weapon Systems is not affiliated with the old SIONICS founded by Mitch WerBell
Then I suggest a name change! As I recall the old sionics didnt really offer anything that other mfgs. had at the same or better price point.
I will have to keep my eye on these
Well let's talk about a 'cheesing fuc&$ing sales pitch' since that's what a couple of you 'members' on here think that's all this Sionics mumbo jumbo is.
Scenario:
I am looking to build a new AR15 and begin sorting through various manufacturers and their products and looking at the designers and owners of a certain business. I want to know that these guys know what they are doing. Have intimate knowledge and hands on experience with the weapon. Now if a couple of smarta$$ guys who come out of nowhere and say my stuff is the best (lets say their names were Merle and scoutchris) why should I believe them? I wouldn't and neither would anyone else. Hence, I wont even consider buying from them.
Now if a couple of guys with the background of say I don't know maybe K.L. Davis and IraqGunz come out with a new company and throw out a sales pitch I AM going to take notice.
That's the difference. The cheesy sales pitch are from people that know AR's backwards and forwards and have proven that time and time again on M4C. Not to mention this is what their job is and both have expanded alot of guys' knowledge of the gun on this forum.
You two need to stop with the attitude and give these guys a little respect based on their knowledge and their willingness to start a company that already has a good reputation solely on who IS affiliated with Sionics.
The damn comment about Gunz was completely uncalled for. I don't know IG personally but that just pissed me off. No point in that and adds nothing to this forum whatsoever.
I've been studying the Sionics rifles for a bit now and i'll probably pull the trigger on a Patrol II PRO from Rainier next pay check.
Now if a couple of guys with the background of say I don't know maybe K.L. Davis and IraqGunz come out with a new company and throw out a sales pitch I AM going to take notice.
That's the difference. The cheesy sales pitch are from people that know AR's backwards and forwards and have proven that time and time again on M4C. Not to mention this is what their job is and both have expanded alot of guys' knowledge of the gun on this forum.
You two need to stop with the attitude and give these guys a little respect based on their knowledge and their willingness to start a company that already has a good reputation solely on who IS affiliated with Sionics.
The damn comment about Gunz was completely uncalled for. I don't know IG personally but that just pissed me off. No point in that and adds nothing to this forum whatsoever.
IG has seen and cranked on more m16/m4 style rifles than most of us will ever see in our lifetimes combined, and so when someone with his resume backs a product, i pay attention. And jaxman7 you are correct in saying the comment was uncalled for, im glad the situation has been taken care of.
ennbeegunny15
10-14-12, 15:43
I am looking for a complete AR and I came across Sionics. I contacted them via email and they responded very quickly and will even ship to my nanny state of CA. I have read and watched IG's vid and came away very impressed. But I'd like to see more reports, I've searched but haven't found too much info. Any range reports or reviews out there that someone can direct me to? TIA
Looking forward to getting some more Sionics users out there and some AARs myself.
IG & K.L. Davis,
If I missed this bit of info I apologize but are there any plans to bring forth shorter barrels in the near future?
I am planning on doing a Kino build next year and figured Sionics would have a special place in its heart for this setup. ;)
-Jax
Looking at getting a Sionics upper to match my lower here in the next few months. Looking forward to giving it some work and seeing what it will do now that I have run my BCM upper for a while.
The advice here has always been why reinvent the wheel. Why buy unproven manufactures when proven manufactures like Colt, BCM, etc, can all be had for a little more. (actually Sionics are priced the same as the proven companies rifles and carbines) I've heard IG quote this time and time again. I know this is not going to be a popular question and no disrespect is ment by this post, but it looks like the rules can change if money is to be made. :)
The advice here has always been why reinvent the wheel. Why buy unproven manufactures when proven manufactures like Colt, BCM, etc, can all be had for a little more.
There was a time when BCM, DD, Rainier, Mega, Noveske, etc. were 'unproven' manufacturers. The difference between these companies and the companies that are typically referred to in that advice is that these companies set out to 'do it right' from the beginning, to build rifles and components to 'professional standards for the discriminating pro,' for lack of better terms. Having more quality/GTG companies to deal with is better for us, in the long run. A company that starts out by bringing on respected insiders right at the start sounds like a good formula for success, IMO.
Magic_Salad0892
12-05-12, 12:00
I'll be honest. Sionics may not offer any setups that interest me, per se.
But I'd have 100% faith in any gun that Iraqguns, or K.L. would put into my hands.
I also have faith that a company they work for would treat it's customers well.
I wish them great success, and I also hope that they become a reputable specialty rifle maker live Noveske or something.
Also, I forgot to say this in the other thread, but extra kudos to IG, and Sionics for hosting AR-15/M4 armorers classes for civilians. Shit like that speaks volumes for these kinda guys.
I'll be honest. Sionics may not offer any setups that interest me, per se.
But I'd have 100% faith in any gun that Iraqguns, or K.L. would put into my hands.
I also have faith that a company they work for would treat it's customers well.
I wish them great success, and I also hope that they become a reputable specialty rifle maker live Noveske or something.
Also, I forgot to say this in the other thread, but extra kudos to IG, and Sionics for hosting AR-15/M4 armorers classes for civilians. Shit like that speaks volumes for these kinda guys.
Putting a face to the name when I spoke with Kino was great. You read of these industry professionals who have been there and done that but never really "know" them. It was nice to speak with him. I for one will support Sionics simply because they are a local company and are using the knowledge and experience of guys who know something to produce a product. As you said they may not have the exact setup but that's always fixable.
Being a "civi" would love to do some type of armorers class as I have a basic knowledge and increased knowledge is always a good thing.
It is not about reinventing the wheel or changing the rules as you say it's about offering a product that is different. Yes you can buy Colt but does Colt have the features that are always desired? No. when I purchased or I should say when I built my SBR one reason I selected Bravo Company over Colt was because Colt did not have the configuration I wanted by the time I would've modified it it would have been a lot more expensive then what my build cost. in addition I got a hammer forged Barrel as well so I guess one could say retiree invented the wheel or that Bravo Company reinvented the wheel or KAC or anyone else for that matter.
The advice here has always been why reinvent the wheel. Why buy unproven manufactures when proven manufactures like Colt, BCM, etc, can all be had for a little more. (actually Sionics are priced the same as the proven companies rifles and carbines) I've heard IG quote this time and time again. I know this is not going to be a popular question and no disrespect is ment by this post, but it looks like the rules can change if money is to be made. :)
If you attend one of my classes I'm not going to sell you a product I'm going to sell you an idea it's up to the person in the class to determine which products or various products meet their needs. In addition if you attend certain courses they will not discuss anything but their product.
I'll be honest. Sionics may not offer any setups that interest me, per se.
But I'd have 100% faith in any gun that Iraqguns, or K.L. would put into my hands.
I also have faith that a company they work for would treat it's customers well.
I wish them great success, and I also hope that they become a reputable specialty rifle maker live Noveske or something.
Also, I forgot to say this in the other thread, but extra kudos to IG, and Sionics for hosting AR-15/M4 armorers classes for civilians. Shit like that speaks volumes for these kinda guys.
Magic_Salad0892
12-05-12, 12:41
If you attend one of my classes I'm not going to sell you a product I'm going to sell you an idea it's up to the person in the class to determine which products or various products meet their needs. In addition if you attend certain courses they will not discuss anything but their product.
That's true, and I completely understand that. But being that you do endorse their product, and are affiliated with them, I'm sure a number of your students will be sold on the idea of getting a Sionics carbine, if they took your class. Kind of like how many of LAV's studends get DD, or HK products because they trust his endorsement. A conduit, if you will.
In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with that. In fact I encourage it because it leads to guiding people along the right path when it comes to helping them select equipment that'll work properly, and work for them.
I think that both are great services.
At least, that's how I see things.
If you attend one of my classes I'm not going to sell you a product I'm going to sell you an idea it's up to the person in the class to determine which products or various products meet their needs.
Not to drift too far from the OP, that is the kind of class I can appreciate. Lately I've been going to a few 'mini-courses'/demos locally, where the host works/slings gear for a few companies. He does show us the products and how they work, why he likes them, and how we can integrate them on our own rifles/in our own styles. There's never any push to buy them beyond that, and the things he teaches/demos with the gear is easily integrated in to whatever the attendee may already have/do. Being one that knows there is no such thing as a free lunch, I was especially surprised when the events have been free, and with lunch served as well.
K.L. Davis
12-05-12, 16:06
Just for the record, I am not with SIONICS - I left around the first of the year to go full time with Warrior Wound Care.
The advice here has always been why reinvent the wheel. Why buy unproven manufactures when proven manufactures like Colt, BCM, etc, can all be had for a little more. (actually Sionics are priced the same as the proven companies rifles and carbines) I've heard IG quote this time and time again. I know this is not going to be a popular question and no disrespect is ment by this post, but it looks like the rules can change if money is to be made. :)
BS.
There was a time not long ago when BCM and DD weren't even in the picture. What made them stand out was a commitment to quality above all else. Industry professionals took notice of this and were subsequently willing to endorse them. Sionics seems to be following a similar path and I wish them luck.
The difference is Sionics is run by people who have demonstrated that they are extremely knowledgeable in regards to the AR15/M4 platform and do not waste time on low end models or "budget guns". Some other new joe schmoe company like Core 15 -- not so much!!
The advice here has always been why reinvent the wheel. Why buy unproven manufactures when proven manufactures like Colt, BCM, etc, can all be had for a little more. (actually Sionics are priced the same as the proven companies rifles and carbines) I've heard IG quote this time and time again. I know this is not going to be a popular question and no disrespect is ment by this post, but it looks like the rules can change if money is to be made. :)
The context of when this is said is important. As a relative newbie to shooting (grew up hunting but that's it) and as a noob to AR's I have asked a lot of the "what do you think of this build/part/optic/company" type of questions over the last few years here.
In every instance that I received, or have seen others receive, the "Why buy unproven when..." answer has been because a guy like me, who is going to have far less ability to properly vet the weapon himself, is asking the question. They are simply saying "your new, and wont be able to look for what I would look for, or test for what I would test, so buy one that I can already tell you is vetted" And they are saying that not because they believe no other company will ever produce quality kit, but just because it's unproven, and it isn't going to become proven (for good or bad) quickly enough for the person asking the question to spend their money.
Sionics is a completely different situation. I know, because I posted one of, if not the original thread asking "who are these guys" to which IG and others responded "not sure, but I'm interesting in checking them out." Now here we are, and they have done just that. Having done so, they can now recommend the company, which they could not do when I first asked the forum.
That's pretty representative of the attitude here.
I for one will support Sionics simply because they are a local company and are using the knowledge and experience of guys who know something to produce a product. .
Being a "civi" would love to do some type of armorers class as I have a basic knowledge and increased knowledge is always a good thing.
Agreed on both counts. The first thread I posted here some time ago about Sionics was due to a desire to support a local company that looked like they were really trying to do it right.
And YES to the armorers class.
diamondbackmike2004
12-24-12, 15:04
Thank you everyone for your notice and attention to SIONICS WEAPON SYSTEMS.
eternal24k
12-24-12, 16:11
Thank you everyone for your notice and attention to SIONICS WEAPON SYSTEMS.
If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask us at any time.
Welcome,
I just ordered an upper 2 nights ago, very much looking forward to putting some rounds through it. Your company has a lot going for it on paper and it sounds like you guys are backing it with QC and CS as well.
Do the uppers come with the QC checklist document?
Also, what is the accuracy standard?
dirtyharry
12-24-12, 16:36
Have had my sionics for almost a year and is by far one of the best I've shot. Fitment between the upper and lower is probably the nicest I've seen. No slop at all.
diamondbackmike2004
12-24-12, 16:50
everyone, thank you for your interest. please direct any questions to the company email
summertrips
12-28-12, 17:57
I have visited this site, and others, for some time now, studied and read everything I could about AR's, and finally made the leap a couple of weeks ago. I purchased the Sionics Patrol Rifle III XL. I have been to the range a couple of times. The rifle shoots great. I love it.
I would be at the range more often, but only purchased 500 rounds of 5.56 and will need to use it sparingly until availability of ammo improves. Hope I can still afford it.
eternal24k
12-31-12, 13:23
I received my Sionics Patrol I upper today, initial impressions are that is appears to be well assembled and quality components. My only gripe off the bat is the fact that the barrel has no markings of any kind. With the specs on the barrel being as good as they are I was surprised and disappointed.
I would have liked to at least see 5.56 and 1/8, the upper comes with no documentation and with an unmarked barrel the resale value goes down.
Unfortunately I only have 1 more day of leave, but I plan on doing a detailed write up when I get back.
Based on Iraqgunz review I went ahead and placed an order for the basic patrol rifle. There is an 8-12 week lead time at the moment. Will update when I have the rifle in hand.
Let me first start by saying, Im no an expert by any means but Ive owned a few AR15’s in my lifetime. Colt, Daniel Defense, and LMT, have all held a spot in my safe over the years.
I have never been more impressed with the service and customer care that Sionics has given me. They answered all my numerous questions and concerns in a very timely manner via e-mail and phone.
Workmanship is top notch, and on par with the top tier AR manufactures. Fit and Finish is perfect. When it arrived, it came ship in a soft padded tactical case and one Pmag. I ordered it just before all the madness and it only took 4 weeks. I got really lucky.
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Dacam1/IMG_3346.jpg
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Dacam1/IMG_3349.jpg
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Dacam1/IMG_3429.jpg
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Dacam1/IMG_3415.jpg
Bolt Carrier and Key: The bolt carrier has a slick nickel plated finish. The bolt does not have this nickel finish though, I wish it did to aid in ease of cleaning. Its a milspec standard mpi bolt.
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Dacam1/IMG_3363.jpg
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Dacam1/IMG_3364.jpg
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Dacam1/IMG_3413.jpg
Barrel: 18” stainless steel 1/8, air gauged, Nato 5.56 chambered. I really like the 1/8 twist, it seems like the best of both worlds from 55g – 77g. A muzzle brake is installed but as this thing has virually no recoil, I don’t think its needed. My only gripe would be that it doesn’t have any specs stamped on the barrel.
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Dacam1/IMG_3452.jpg
Feed ramps: It has M4 feed ramps. This is my first rifle gas system gun so I really don’t know how it should look but it looks ok to me. I didn't have any failures or feed issues of any kind.
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Dacam1/IMG_3396.jpg
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Dacam1/IMG_3391.jpg
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Dacam1/IMG_3390.jpg
Trigger: Well, I thought it would come with a two stage trigger but it didn’t. It came with a flat bow single stage drop it trigger. Upon dry firing it, it seems to be very crisp and has a short reset. I emailed Sionics about this and they said that all their rifle comes standard now with single stage triggers. That’s fine, I swapped it out with Geissele SSA-E in and it works well.
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Dacam1/IMG_3358.jpg
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Dacam1/IMG_3359.jpg
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Dacam1/IMG_3361.jpg
Free float rail: Samson Evolution 15” rail. I love this rail. Its light and not overly large and fits my hands nicely. Looks cool too!
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Dacam1/IMG_3403.jpg
Buttsock: Well, it’s a rifle length buffer system so stock options are minimal. I don’t care for the ACE stock, it seems as though your cheek is resting on a pipe covered with foam IMHO. I upgraded it to a Magpul MOE rifle stock and it feels good. The LOP is a tab bit short, but I have an enhanced butt pad on order. I hope this helps.
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Dacam1/IMG_3453.jpg
Accuracy and reliability: I shot around 200 rounds so far without any issues what so ever. Accuracy has been stellar. It will shoot sub-moa all day long. My best 100yd group was .630 with 77g Federal Gold Medal Match ammo with my Vortex 2.5-10 scope and AD Recon 30mm mount. I am going to replace it with a Vortex Viper PST 1-4 in the future, I think this will be an awesome short range cqb to medium range weapon.
I am totally happy with this weapon system and also with Sionics customer service. I'm so glad to see another top manufacture in the marketplace. Even with all this hype and panic buying on assault weapons and how busy these guys must be, they still answer their phones and answer all their e-mails.
Give them a call, you wont regret it.
diamondbackmike2004
01-11-13, 10:04
m4 feed ramps for the win
Thank you for the enlightenment sir, my bad.
Based on Iraqgunz review I went ahead and placed an order for the basic patrol rifle. There is an 8-12 week lead time at the moment. Will update when I have the rifle in hand.
I placed an order for a complete lower from SIONICS on 1/8/2013. At the time it said there was a 8-12 week waiting period. Today I just put in an order for an upper and it said the wait time is 20-24 weeks now. I was on a tight budget last week but I figured I would put my name in line on at least a lower.
summertrips
01-15-13, 12:51
Does anyone know how to contact Sionics. I call their number and the only answer I get is voice-mail.
Best way to contact them is email
They have been very responsive on email, but be aware they're at SHOT this week.
The_Hammer_Man
01-15-13, 16:52
Just FYI they can take calls or build weapons.. not both.
Email is the best way to speak to them.
m4 feed ramps for the win
They are nearly as sexy at the m4 feed ramps on DD's.
Please note that we are out of the shop this week attending The 2013 SHOT Show in Las Vegas. Any phone messages left, will be promptly returned next week. In the meantime, please feel free to e-mail us at sales@sionicsweaponsystems.com
Thank you for your interest in SIONICS.
My only gripe off the bat is the fact that the barrel has no markings of any kind. With the specs on the barrel being as good as they are I was surprised and disappointed.
I would have liked to at least see 5.56 and 1/8, the upper comes with no documentation and with an unmarked barrel the resale value goes down.
Sionics--any plans to address this?
We are in the process of placing markings on our barrels that are currently being manufactured. These barrels will be phased in over the next few months as our current inventory is distributed.
They listen to feedback...Me like!
I picked up a patrol Rifle upper with the 15 inch Samson rail a few weeks ago and i have had nothing but success in dealing with their customer service.
Mike over at Sionics was more than accommodating and willing to take care of me despite the issue not being theirs.
Long story short my forward assist had a dent in it that went through the anodizing. I normally dont care about this type of thing but given the location i could see this becoming an issue down the road.
The_Hammer_Man
01-28-13, 13:22
Really glad you guys are taking off with your business!
Stellar product line too.
...My only gripe off the bat is the fact that the barrel has no markings of any kind. With the specs on the barrel being as good as they are I was surprised and disappointed...
AR guys live in a strange world. Markings don't make a barrel last longer or shoot better
AR guys live in a strange world. Markings don't make a barrel last longer or shoot better
An AR with markings of BCM or thereof will shoot better and last longer than an AR with the markings of Del-ton no? If there are not markings, how would you know?
The_Hammer_Man
01-28-13, 22:44
The company that makes those barrels will not put roll marks on them because they say it messes with barrel harmonics.
considering who they are.. I'm not going to gainsay them :)
AR guys live in a strange world. Markings don't make a barrel last longer or shoot better
Barrel markings are important to me, they may also be important for inventory purposes at LE departments.
Selling a non marked barrel is akin to debadging a Honda and trying to sell it as an Acura.
I also have a few 16 inch uppers with 15 inch samson rails. I only have one sionics upper so the barrel markings would differentiate. Then again, this is also my only non marked barrel. :)
How would a marked barrel affect any type of inventory system? As long as the barrel is quality and I know the specs I could care less how it is marked.
Barrel markings are important to me, they may also be important for inventory purposes at LE departments.
Selling a non marked barrel is akin to debadging a Honda and trying to sell it as an Acura.
I also have a few 16 inch uppers with 15 inch samson rails. I only have one sionics upper so the barrel markings would differentiate. Then again, this is also my only non marked barrel. :)
The_Hammer_Man
01-28-13, 22:53
As long as it's not pink or have hello kitty stickers on it I'll shoot it.
Heh, If you don't like that barrel send it to me. I'll send you back a marked one :)
Edited to add: Given who makes their barrels I'd shoot it hello kitty stickers or not.
How would a marked barrel affect any type of inventory system? As long as the barrel is quality and I know the specs I could care less how it is marked.
You have a brain?
Some people need to have EVERYTHING labeled for purposes of not losing their mind...Note i say MAY...
The question remains, do barrel markings DETRACT from anything? Have we conclusively proved that they may adversely affect accuracy?
The company that makes those barrels will not put roll marks on them because they say it messes with barrel harmonics.
considering who they are.. I'm not going to gainsay them :)
Ta-DAA!
An AR with markings of BCM or thereof will shoot better and last longer than an AR with the markings of Del-ton no? If there are not markings, how would you know?
Depends on how each barrel is made. We know BCM sources their barrels from a trusted manufacture but as I recall, do not make barrels themselves.
Del-Ton I know even less about but if they were made right, they'll last just as long.
If I gave you four rifles, one with a 4140 CM barrel, the second with a 4150 CMV, the third with a 416 SS barrel and the last with a 410 SS barrel would you be able to tell which was which just by shooting them? No.
If I had to choose between a BCM 4140 CM barrel and a Del-Ton 4150 CMV, I'd choose the BCM because I know BCM has proven quality control. At the end of the day, anyone can stamp a barrel with anything they want
Barrel markings...may also be important for inventory purposes at LE departments.
This is a good point
Selling a non marked barrel is akin to debadging a Honda and trying to sell it as an Acura.
Only if the guy selling is trying to defraud you. It could also be a case of selling a debadged Honda as a Honda or debadged Acura as an Acura, or even selling a debadged Acura as a Honda.
Still, AR guys live in a strange world where two stage triggers are for precision shooting, manufacturers have to mark their barrels, "proprietary" parts are the work of the devil and an inch shift forward in the center of gravity makes a carbine nose heavy.
Don't worry, though- I still enjoy the company
I suppose it if wasn't important manufacturers uh... wouldn't mark barrels?
I think a marking indicating whether a rifle is 5.56 v .223 could be helpful to an individual unfamiliar with the rifle. If Sionics had no plans to mark their barrels that wouldn't keep me from buying one...
eternal24k
02-02-13, 10:51
The importance of barrel markings is to assure the owner that the barrel specs are what they ordered, I imagine it is easier to mis type an ad than it would be to put the wrong specs on a barrel, but primarily it serves as a irrefutable record of the source which is important for any 3rd party sales. I know what I have, but selling on the open marketplace means the buyer has to fully trust me, and that can really affect sales. There is a reason why companies mark their components, just look at a BCM upper.
Anyways, glad to see SIONICS is listening :)
The_Hammer_Man
02-02-13, 15:52
OK guys.. enough about the roll mark thing and let's get back to grooving on Sionics product line instead of obsessing about trivia.
If you want to roll mark a barrel it should be done before the heat treat process has started.
Why? Every time you hit a piece of steel it work hardens. If you want to "hammer harden" a barrel you would have to strike it with identical forces on all sides at the same time...
IE, Hammer forging... with me so far?
Now lets take our barrel and hit is hard enough to leave letter and number indentations.
This is called Spot Hardening/ Point Hardening.
This is NOT a good thing to do to a barrel due to the fact that the downward force of the letter/number strikes will cause the metal to bend TOWARDS the tool/force.
I wouldn't do it.. and I'd slap anyone I work with for doing it. (Would make him pay out of his own pocket to replace said barrel too)
Then why oh why didn't Sionics do it? I'll hypothesise a bit...
COST and TIME.
Any mechanical operation, such as roll marking, adds to the time and cost of barrel production. If I had a product line that needed to get out to the public asap so I wouldn't lose my shirt the last thing I'd be thinking about would be roll marks.
I'd be thinking "If we make it through this first year w/o going bankrupt I'll think about having the barrels roll marked next year.
Edited to add: I don't know if this is Sionics motivation for not getting their barrels marked.... but it makes sense to me.
Noveske Marks their barrels and they are accurate as hell....
Hypothetically i see your point but is there any documented proof that stamping caliber markings on a barrel causes the rounds to um...curve up?
This is not trivial stuff, it might be to you but to others, it isnt.
The_Hammer_Man
02-02-13, 16:43
Noveske Marks their barrels and they are accurate as hell....
Hypothetically i see your point but is there any documented proof that stamping caliber markings on a barrel causes the rounds to um...curve up?
This is not trivial stuff, it might be to you but to others, it isnt.
It's not if someone marks their barrels... it's when. Usually, roll marks are applied before the final hardening/tempering process has started while the metal is still soft enough that you can use minimal pressure/force to mark the metal.
Attempting to mark a piece of high carbon steel after its been hardened is problematical due to the extra force necessary.
It's fairly simple materials science that you can look up on the internet.
It's not if someone marks their barrels... it's when. Usually, roll marks are applied before the final hardening/tempering process has started while the metal is still soft enough that you can use minimal pressure/force to mark the metal.
Attempting to mark a piece of high carbon steel after its been hardened is problematical due to the extra force necessary.
It's fairly simple materials science that you can look up on the internet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BqMjqf1wuGQ [Start at 2:11]
Unless someone can show me proof that stamping a barrel affects the harmonics I'm calling bullshit on that one. What company applies the stamping before any hardening process?
I think barrel markings are important personally, especially if I decide to sell an upper/barrel. The barrel MAY or MAY NOT come from a factory and a second hand buyer often asks to see the markings. It gives me piece of mind if my barrels were stamped.
The_Hammer_Man
02-03-13, 02:06
Ok, in order to end this little side trip into idiocy I'm going to contact the folks that do this for a living, Krieger Barrels, and find out the straight skinny about this part of the barrel making process. They're not that far from where I live and, if I make an appointment, I can get in to talk to one of their engineers. Or, they might shoot me the pertinent info via email. Either way I'll CC it here when I get it.
The reason I advanced the theory, and you'll note I didn't express it as fact, is because in my experience as a gunsmith and blacksmith anything done to a piece of high carbon steel after the hardening/tempering process is complete can cause minor deviations in in how straight it will be.
The difference might be minor.. it might be huge. I do not know for sure about barrels. I know knives. They're not tubes and there's probably a world of difference in how you handle them both before and after hardening/tempering.
I understand the desire for proof marks on a barrel , and your right in that it does affect the ease of resale/inventory control. Please remember that at the end of the day it's not whether Sionics chooses to roll mark their barrels or not. It's how straight they shoot.
From the evidence offered in previous posts.. they're pretty damned straight shooters.
I am not doubting Sionics as a company at all, especially knowing about who has been involved in the company. I trust them enough that I own a few of their uppers...
The way you expressed your guess came across as fact. The video and the feedback I have received from top end barrel makers are that the way barrels are stamped, it does not affect barrel accuracy. We aren't branding a heated piece of iron in a fire here.
The_Hammer_Man
02-03-13, 12:32
It wasn't a guess, it was a theory/hypothesis based on more than a couple decades working as a smith. Also my wife is a materials science engineer and she thought my theory, there's that word again, made sense.
I'll be speaking to the people at Krieger this week and I'll transmit the info I gather here.
Also, I'd like to add that some barrel makers don't put their marks out where you can see them when the rife is assembled. For instance WOA puts theirs just in front of the barrel extension. Kinda difficult to see unless you pull the hand guard.
I'm just glad that a Tucson, my old stomping grounds, company is producing such a good line of weapons.
eternal24k
02-03-13, 12:43
This is ridiculous, you have made it clear that your experience is NOT in barrels and all of this counters the fact that the best barrels on the market have markings, yet defy your logic and shoot exceptionally well. Please take these theories into a new thread.
Ok, in order to end this little side trip into idiocy I'm going to contact the folks that do this for a living, Krieger Barrels, and find out the straight skinny about this part of the barrel making process. They're not that far from where I live and, if I make an appointment, I can get in to talk to one of their engineers. Or, they might shoot me the pertinent info via email. Either way I'll CC it here when I get it.
The reason I advanced the theory, and you'll note I didn't express it as fact, is because in my experience as a gunsmith and blacksmith anything done to a piece of high carbon steel after the hardening/tempering process is complete can cause minor deviations in in how straight it will be.
The difference might be minor.. it might be huge. I do not know for sure about barrels. I know knives. They're not tubes and there's probably a world of difference in how you handle them both before and after hardening/tempering.
I understand the desire for proof marks on a barrel , and your right in that it does affect the ease of resale/inventory control. Please remember that at the end of the day it's not whether Sionics chooses to roll mark their barrels or not. It's how straight they shoot.
From the evidence offered in previous posts.. they're pretty damned straight shooters.
The_Hammer_Man
02-03-13, 14:15
Prove me wrong then or, you could wait till after I get more info from the gents at Krieger.
I'll assume you'll take their word for it eh?
(Done with this till after I get info from them.)
I think all the manufacturers of high quality barrels that already stamp their barrels have proven you wrong. I'll take the late John Noveske's word ...
Prove me wrong then or, you could wait till after I get more info from the gents at Krieger.
I'll assume you'll take their word for it eh?
(Done with this till after I get info from them.)
Please...just stop posting "hypotheses" until you've actually concocted one.
You never made a statement with two VERY important criteria in it, IF and THEN.
WHEN you've spoken to Krieger, get back to us. Until then, can actual owners of these uppers/guns get back on track and post their feedback?
As an owner, my feedback was given, i want my future purchases to have marked barrels. Start another thread if you really must present your unsubstantiated theories based upon your extensive gunsmithing background.
All this debate for barrel markings. Seems a little... well... TOS-ish.
If you buy a barrel from a reputable mfg, who cares if its marked or not. If you need markings, buy a barrel with markings if that makes you feel better.
I care. As do people who buy on the second hand market. I want to see info on how the chamber is cut, the rifling twist, material used to make barrel.
Sionics can decide what they want to do. As someone who has multiple uppers from them, I would say that the little stamp doesn't add much to the process and gives people piece of mind. And yes, I will decide with my wallet when I purchase more uppers and barrel stampings, that give me as a shooter data about the barrel, are a factor to me as a consumer.
I care. As do people who buy on the second hand market. I want to see info on how the chamber is cut, the rifling twist, material used to make barrel.
Sionics can decide what they want to do. As someone who has multiple uppers from them, I would say that the little stamp doesn't add much to the process and gives people piece of mind. And yes, I will decide with my wallet when I purchase more uppers and barrel stampings, that give me as a shooter data about the barrel, are a factor to me as a consumer.
Cool stuff if you care about markings. Why i said if markings make u feel better, go for it. Anyways, all this about markings has completely derailed this thread. Can only kill a horse once, and beating on it after its dead won't do anything.
Cool stuff if you care about markings. Why i said if markings make u feel better, go for it. Anyways, all this about markings has completely derailed this thread. Can only kill a horse once, and beating on it after its dead won't do anything.
You do realize this is a thread about sionics products right? Particularly a barrel that up until recently had no markings.
Feedback was given, the manufacturer noted it and they made a change. We discussed said change on an internet discussion forum and we are awaiting further talking points from a dude that speculated pretty hard.
Im not sure how this is beating a dead horse....
Since i OWN one of these uppers, this discussion is RELEVANT to ME.
Would it be remotely possible to keep the crux of the topic on track and not about barrel markings?
Sorry to further feed the derail, and I pray IraqGunz doesn't whoop my ass for it, but if something like marking a barrel would hurt the harmonics, wouldn't a process like dimpling a barrel (a process done by some of the best) completely destroy the harmonics then?
This Sionics weapon looks great. Thanks for the video, IG. I'll look hard at one of their barrels for my next ASSAULT WEAPON build once the madness chills out.
The_Hammer_Man
02-05-13, 15:14
According to the people I spoke to at Krieger and Criterion Barrels yesterday all roll marking is done after the heat treat and is actually one of the last steps in barrel production.
Criterion roll marks on their barrels back by the barrel extension and in front of the breech area. They said they do it there because puting it out one the muzzle end would, in their words, have a negative effect on accuracy. Mumbo jumbo???? I dunno.. but they do produce one of the best chrome lined chrome moly barrels in the USA.
According to the guys at Krieger it is safe to roll mark near the muzzle. Apparently stainless is more forgiving in this regard.
Now onto how they do it...
Both companies use a press to letter mark their barrels. Not a hammer and punch :)
Edited to add: While I was on the phone with Criterion Barrels I put in an order for a number of their barrels. Lead time is mid-June. Can't wait :)
I got told, loudly, that they'd never "hammer on one of our barrels like that".
Why not? Because it would do exactly like I described in an earlier post.. the metal would distort towards the tool/hammer.
There now.. I feel a whole lot better knowing the how and when of this part of the barrel making process. I hope you do to.
Just a question? Has anyone pulled their rail off their Sionics to see if the roll mark is under the handguard?
There is no roll mark under the handguard.
How has the lead time for barreled uppers been lately?
300 rounds through the gun right now. No issues at all. The nickel carrier is very slick.
I was putting down two inch groups at 50 yards rested with a 4 MOA T1 and my Mark 1 Mod 0 worn out eyeball. I am very pleased so far.
http://imageshack.us/a/img42/8638/sionics.jpg
300 rounds through the gun right now. No issues at all.
Is that your total round count? I'm wondering if any of the Sionics owners here have run their guns through a class (besides Iraqgunz). Any updates from other folks? Be curious to hear more long term reports.
Waiting impatiently for my delivery...
They are constantly being shot most recently by the USMS and some PD's around the country.
I fired about alot of rounds through it in 1.5 days of a Magpul Course. I believe it was over 750 rounds.
Is that your total round count? I'm wondering if any of the Sionics owners here have run their guns through a class (besides Iraqgunz). Any updates from other folks? Be curious to hear more long term reports.
Waiting impatiently for my delivery...
They are constantly being shot most recently by the USMS and some PD's around the country.
I fired about alot of rounds through it in 1.5 days of a Magpul Course. I believe it was over 750 rounds.
I had seen your video. Very helpful.
USMS=US Marshall's Service? There was a member here mmbeller191 who had ordered some for his department. Would be great if he (or others in that thread) could share any updates here, good or bad.
I ordered mine on the beginning of Jan. I received it a couple weeks ago (end of Jan.) it said there was an 8-12 week back order but I received it in half the time. So far I am impressed with it. I am waiting on some optics for it right now because I only have the magpul iron sights. Then I will take it to the range.
Unfortunately yes, only 300 rounds.
A year ago i would have been over a thousand already but...well...i dont really need to say anything else lol. :)
mmbeller191
02-12-13, 19:29
My dept. bought 6 Sionics rifles around Nov of last year. I did a post about it already which I won't repeat here. We are still happy after several range sessions but haven't sent anyone to any week-long high round count schools. The feed ramp issue noted earlier was fixed by sending a brand new upper even though we hadn't had any malfunctions. I think Sionics made a great choice in shipping their rifles with Pmags which eliminates the occurrence of a malfunction caused by a cheap magazine.
A few officers have since ordered and received Sionics rifles. Like Sully, their wait wasn't as long as they expected. I think for someone looking to place an order for a complete rifle in the current craze, they aren't quite as back logged as some of the better known makes. If I were to place the department rifle order again, I wouldn't change a thing. Their trigger is very good, the long rail is nice, and the NP3 bolt is easy to maintain. They DO stand behind their product.
My dept. bought 6 Sionics rifles around Nov of last year. I did a post about it already which I won't repeat here. We are still happy after several range sessions but haven't sent anyone to any week-long high round count schools. The feed ramp issue noted earlier was fixed by sending a brand new upper even though we hadn't had any malfunctions. I think Sionics made a great choice in shipping their rifles with Pmags which eliminates the occurrence of a malfunction caused by a cheap magazine.
A few officers have since ordered and received Sionics rifles. Like Sully, their wait wasn't as long as they expected. I think for someone looking to place an order for a complete rifle in the current craze, they aren't quite as back logged as some of the better known makes. If I were to place the department rifle order again, I wouldn't change a thing. Their trigger is very good, the long rail is nice, and the NP3 bolt is easy to maintain. They DO stand behind their product.
Thanks much for the update. I'm hoping my order delivery doesn't take as long as expected, would love to get the rifle in time to take a class in March I'm looking at.
If you or any of your officers takes one of these rifles through a high round count class, it would be great to hear about how it fares there. Thanks again.
For some time now, we have been asked about marking our barrels. That time has come. All SIONICS Barrels manufactured in March of 2013 and thereafter will be marked as shown in the photo. Designations are as follows: XR - Xray, MP - Magnetic Particle, 5.56 NATO - Caliber, 1/8 - Twist, MM/YY - Date of Manufacture.
ennbeegunny15
04-06-13, 21:55
Very nice, I hope mine comes soon! Hurry! Lol
I am VERY pleased with my Sionics upper.
Ive put over 3k rounds through it now and it is still plugging along gloriously:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYbpXK_IzUw
I am VERY pleased with my Sionics upper.
Ive put over 3k rounds through it now and it is still plugging along gloriously:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYbpXK_IzUw
Sweet. Nice to know Magsz.
-Jax
troutozark
01-13-14, 12:01
Reviving the old thread and looking for a response from IG. I'm strongly considering the Sionics Patrol ZERO as my next AR purchase. I've been in contact with them and the carbine is in stock. They are at SHOT right now but I want to order next week after they return to work. To those of you who have run the Sionics( in particular base model Patrol ZERO) still feel about them as you have posted previously?
I will probably equip the carbine with an Aimpoint PRO and it will be for general range use and SHTF.
It's between the Scionics and a Colt LE 6920 that I can get <$1K. I appreciate your responses.
Patrol zero is a new configuration. The only difference (that I know of) between the Patrol Zero and the Patrol I that I own is that the Zero trigger is an ALG mil-spec rather than the CMC 4.5 lb trigger.
I have a couple thousand rounds through it, including one carbine class and have been very happy with it. Great balance, totally reliable. Sionics' CS has been very responsive to all my dumb annoying questions both pre and post purchase. I plan on buying two more rifles from them.
quaesitor logica
01-14-14, 09:05
Great rifles. i have had the opportunity to fire off a few rounds with CMC triggered versions. Solid performers. The Patrol 0 looks to be a high standard setter in its price range.
shutup&shoot
01-14-14, 13:32
While I have not fired one of their rifles I can say they respond to emails very quickly. I asked a question regarding options on a rifle and had a response in 5 minutes. To me that is a very fast response time.
Blankwaffe
01-14-14, 19:27
Haven't had one the rifles in my hands yet,but from what I see the SIONICS is more in line with what I'd want over a standard model carbine from Colt etc..
The SIONICS specific barrel contour and the 1:8 barrel twist as standard on the chrome lined barrels hits the top of my list.I like the fact SIONICS is using x-ray and MPI on the barrels and wish they'd do the bolts too instead of HPT.
The custom build type hands on care and concern of assembly,going as far as to sort through and match the receivers for best fit,specific and outlined QA/QC, is all very intriguing to me as it shows these guys are taking their time to build the rifles.....quality over quantity the way I see it.
Not to mention the ALG QMS as standard and the VLTOR A5 as an option closes the deal for me,Im in.
Im still torn between a couple models,SIONICS PRS III XL and the SIONICS 16" Geissele Middy.As soon as I make up my mind and get my funds together I'll have one to review,let you know in a months on how happy I am.
mmbeller191
01-14-14, 20:41
Blankwaffe, my police department bought six of the Sionics PRS III XL about 2 years ago. We have probably 7k rounds through them as a group, (not each rifle). They are smooth shooting and accurate. We like the Samson rail that lets you put your support hand all the way out. The trigger is awesome. I would get the XL again in a heartbeat. Never regretted the model we chose. No malfunctions, no problems. And yes, they are very responsive to customers, unlike many of the big names.
I just received 5 of these barrels yesterday. The more that I read on this barrel and the more I talk to folks about it, the more I feel that this is a fantastic value for the price...
Blankwaffe
01-14-14, 23:31
Blankwaffe, my police department bought six of the Sionics PRS III XL about 2 years ago. We have probably 7k rounds through them as a group, (not each rifle). They are smooth shooting and accurate. We like the Samson rail that lets you put your support hand all the way out. The trigger is awesome. I would get the XL again in a heartbeat. Never regretted the model we chose. No malfunctions, no problems. And yes, they are very responsive to customers, unlike many of the big names.
What draws me to the III XL is the length of the rail for that very reason.That said Ive never had or wanted a rail, so Im weighing the options.
Blankwaffe
01-14-14, 23:32
I just received 5 of these barrels yesterday. The more that I read on this barrel and the more I talk to folks about it, the more I feel that this is a fantastic value for the price...
Any pictures by chance?
I'll see if my better half can snap a few...
231552315623157
Better late than never. Sorry for the delay and photo quality...
rapomstage3
01-29-14, 19:58
I'm sure it's been answered but why are these 1/8twist barrels? I've been considering picking up a lower lately.
I'm sure it's been answered but why are these 1/8twist barrels? I've been considering picking up a lower lately.
Because 1/8 is the optimal choice for most people, especially non military. 1/8 is the sweet spot that many gamers, hunders, and sport shooters are into, as it covers a wide spectrum of bullet weights. Just like 1/9 is better for shooting lighter stuff but not so much with heavier stuff like 77 grain match kings. It's all about a sweet spot. You will find many Stainless barrels in 1/8 for this reason.
Obscenejesster
01-29-14, 20:41
I actually prefer 1:8 twist and wished more manufactures would start making chrome lined barrels in 1:8 (specifically Hammer Forged). 1:8 is more accurate with a wider range of pills.
Blankwaffe
01-29-14, 22:44
231552315623157
Better late than never. Sorry for the delay and photo quality...
Dankeschön.
ElJefeDeJefes
01-29-14, 23:12
With the price point of the matched receiver sets, these are getting harder and harder to pass up.
Unfortunately all of the cerakote upper lower sets are sold out. It's gonna be a while before we do more and they will be normal price.
With the price point of the matched receiver sets, these are getting harder and harder to pass up.
I am glad this thread popped back up, I was just looking at Sionics and wanted to know what kind of reputation they had. I may have to order something soon, just wish they had a few more options on barrels.
ElJefeDeJefes
01-30-14, 11:46
Unfortunately all of the cerakote upper lower sets are sold out. It's gonna be a while before we do more and they will be normal price.
Guess I procrastinated too long on that one......
I think the relatively quick sell-out is in indicitive of the solid product, congrats!
Thanks to Will, I think Sionics and Battle Arms will be working together very soon ;)
Because 1/8 is the optimal choice for most people, especially non military. 1/8 is the sweet spot that many gamers, hunders, and sport shooters are into, as it covers a wide spectrum of bullet weights. Just like 1/9 is better for shooting lighter stuff but not so much with heavier stuff like 77 grain match kings. It's all about a sweet spot. You will find many Stainless barrels in 1/8 for this reason.
I agree. I really wish they were available in a 14.5 midlength.
Duffy, any chance we'll see these on a Sionics 45° compatible lower? ;)
ElJefeDeJefes
01-30-14, 22:33
I agree. I really wish they were available in a 14.5 midlength.
Duffy, any chance we'll see these on a Sionics 45° compatible lower? ;)
I'll take one 14.5" barrel as well please!
SeriousStudent
01-30-14, 22:38
Unfortunately all of the cerakote upper lower sets are sold out. It's gonna be a while before we do more and they will be normal price.
That was a very nice deal, IG. I passed that onto a buddy at work that snagged a set. I'm going to help him build his first AR.
And he's going to pay me back with steak and beer - woot!
Unfortunately all of the cerakote upper lower sets are sold out. It's gonna be a while before we do more and they will be normal price.
IG, the black set is still available. Is it black cerakote or a good old fashioned anodized receiver set?
Not sure. You may be right. After SHOT we started selling quite a few.
IG, the black set is still available. Is it black cerakote or a good old fashioned anodized receiver set?
richdkim77
01-31-14, 03:20
Not everyday your inspected by slip is signed by IG.
For $179.99 the receiver set is a steal. The upper also included the upper parts kit installed.
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/UWone77/IMG_1451_zpsd69b9fb4.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/UWone77/media/IMG_1451_zpsd69b9fb4.jpg.html)
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/UWone77/IMG_1449_zps9fb3c73f.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/UWone77/media/IMG_1449_zps9fb3c73f.jpg.html)
Good stuff. Can't wait to see how you finish it out. I think you are going to like the barrels. We are getting good results with them.
Not everyday your inspected by slip is signed by IG.
For $179.99 the receiver set is a steal. The upper also included the upper parts kit installed.
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/UWone77/IMG_1451_zpsd69b9fb4.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/UWone77/media/IMG_1451_zpsd69b9fb4.jpg.html)
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/UWone77/IMG_1449_zps9fb3c73f.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/UWone77/media/IMG_1449_zps9fb3c73f.jpg.html)
I know you have more important things to worry about, but the images on the Sionics website really don't do these receivers justice. Great shots Mr. richdkim77.
We're working on it :)
I agree. I really wish they were available in a 14.5 midlength.
Duffy, any chance we'll see these on a Sionics 45° compatible lower? ;)
In a few weeks we will be doing a photoshoot and updating the site with products, etc...
I know you have more important things to worry about, but the images on the Sionics website really don't do these receivers justice. Great shots Mr. richdkim77.
rapomstage3
01-31-14, 19:08
I'm pretty upset that I can't get that set right now. I hope they stick around for a little.
Ordered a patrol 1 upper about 10 days ago, and was finally able to zero it with a t1, mbus, and PMC bronze 55gr at 100 yds this afternoon. Will head out again tomorrow.
Initial impressions are that it is well put together, and it is meeting my shot group expectations with bulk factory ammunition. The cerakote is a nice touch!
As an aside, they have been very responsive to my questions.
richdkim77
01-31-14, 19:35
Good stuff. Can't wait to see how you finish it out. I think you are going to like the barrels. We are getting good results with them.
I assumed if you're behind it, the barrels would be top notch, that's why I got 2. I'll finish the receivers up this week and try to post some pictures. I'll be going with:
Upper:
SIONICS Upper
SIONICS 16" Barrel
Rainier Arms Gas Block
Rainier Arms Raptor
KAC URX 3.1 12.5"
KAC Rear Sight
Lower:
SIONICS Lower
BCM Mod2 Grip
KAC Ambi Mag release
Magpul CTR Stock
BAD-ASS
I think I have everything except the KAC BUIS and BAD ASS on hand. I had to use a regular safety for now until I can get some more BAD ASS's.
Also I was going to use a SIONICS BCG, but they weren't on sale :)
We're working on it :)
Damn it, Duffy, quit conspiring to steal my money! My wife is gonna hate you guys, but if everything continues apace it might not be too long before I'm buying rather than building.
I have the Burnt Bronze and Tac Grey rifles put together, pics in the custom build section. I still have the Dark Earth set to assemble. $179 was a steal. I paid the old price when I picked mine up.
I am eyeballing the lower with the Vltor A5 RE. Then a BCM 20" upper.
They are standard M4 lowers made from 7075T6 aluminum forgings.
these lowers flared?
They are standard M4 lowers made from 7075T6 aluminum forgings.
But you can still flare standard forged lowers. Umbrellas forged lowers have a pretty decent flare. BAD's receiver looks to have the same type of flare going on also.
Just curious to why more companies aren't doing this as I really don't see any drawbacks.
But you can still flare standard forged lowers. Umbrellas forged lowers have a pretty decent flare. BAD's receiver looks to have the same type of flare going on also.
Just curious to why more companies aren't doing this as I really don't see any drawbacks.
Like noveske's gen 2.
Like noveske's gen 2.
That's a completely different animal altogether. He's talking about a standard forged lower that has had a wider bevel machined into the magwell opening, similar to the Daniel Defense lowers.
That also wasn't the question.
But you can still flare standard forged lowers. Umbrellas forged lowers have a pretty decent flare. BAD's receiver looks to have the same type of flare going on also.
Just curious to why more companies aren't doing this as I really don't see any drawbacks.
Their BCG looks like a very good value. I may pick one up for my new build.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
I am eyeballing the lower with the Vltor A5 RE. Then a BCM 20" upper.
I just got a BCM 20" upper and I am eyeing the same lower. I was looking for the Vltor lower but it seems to be MIA right now.
Any comments on the Sionics lower? Quality of the lpk? Castle nut staked?
We use ALG triggers in our lowers and all of the other parts are quality that are used throughout the industry. All lowers are staked in two locations. http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store/product.php?id_product=105
I just got a BCM 20" upper and I am eyeing the same lower. I was looking for the Vltor lower but it seems to be MIA right now.
Any comments on the Sionics lower? Quality of the lpk? Castle nut staked?
Thank you. Seems like this will be my best option.
richdkim77
02-04-14, 00:40
Haven't decided on a BCG... still need that, along with a BAD-ASS and KAC BUIS to finish this. So far:
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/UWone77/IMG_1469_zpsd826e5a5.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/UWone77/media/IMG_1469_zpsd826e5a5.jpg.html)
Just received a SIONICS 16" mid length barrel for testing....looking forward to really wringing this barrel out in terms of accuracy/precision testing, as well as velocity and long distance testing.
It has the perfect contour and length for a Recon config. type build, thus that is my aim with it.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/c2b2ed86-fc88-4029-af9a-d9ab4187dd8f_zps0699932c.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/c2b2ed86-fc88-4029-af9a-d9ab4187dd8f_zps0699932c.jpg.html)
Few more detailed pics of this new barrel prior to cleaning, and installing. After a detailed inspection, I have high expectations for this barrel....the business end looks especially good on this barrel.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/f7837618-6002-491b-bba8-317ac1ad3b54_zps1df04630.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/f7837618-6002-491b-bba8-317ac1ad3b54_zps1df04630.jpg.html)
Clearly labeled....
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/a11dd6b6-3af0-417f-8e2d-13bfb43f9110_zps5441b693.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/a11dd6b6-3af0-417f-8e2d-13bfb43f9110_zps5441b693.jpg.html)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/cd87c192-0218-4398-bd68-6021b04db507_zps5534dd93.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/cd87c192-0218-4398-bd68-6021b04db507_zps5534dd93.jpg.html)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/a156c375-bf49-41e4-918a-da98e93f2293_zps69384117.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/a156c375-bf49-41e4-918a-da98e93f2293_zps69384117.jpg.html)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/431161cb-0bd9-40de-b20a-507c75ec4dae_zpsde7053af.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/431161cb-0bd9-40de-b20a-507c75ec4dae_zpsde7053af.jpg.html)
eternal24k
02-05-14, 20:54
Just received a SIONICS 16" mid length barrel for testing....looking forward to really wringing this barrel out in terms of accuracy/precision testing, as well as velocity and long distance testing.
It has the perfect contour and length for a Recon config. type build, thus that is my aim with it.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/c2b2ed86-fc88-4029-af9a-d9ab4187dd8f_zps0699932c.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/c2b2ed86-fc88-4029-af9a-d9ab4187dd8f_zps0699932c.jpg.html)
nice. Looking forward to your findings. I love my SIONICS upper, wish it had the markings. I have never put it's accuracy potential to the test either.
ElJefeDeJefes
02-05-14, 22:30
trident82,
Great detailed pics, thanks!
Just received a SIONICS 16" mid length barrel for testing....looking forward to really wringing this barrel out in terms of accuracy/precision testing, as well as velocity and long distance testing.
It has the perfect contour and length for a Recon config. type build, thus that is my aim with it.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/c2b2ed86-fc88-4029-af9a-d9ab4187dd8f_zps0699932c.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/c2b2ed86-fc88-4029-af9a-d9ab4187dd8f_zps0699932c.jpg.html)
Thanks for the great picks from me also. Can you post the barrel dia. behind and in front of the gas block journal. This looks very similar to the Noveske N4 light. Mine is a 14.5 and measures .700 to the journal and .680 in front to the muzzle. I am looking at the Sionics 16 inch for a build. I am very interested in your test results. Thanks in advance Trident82.
Are the barrels designed to allow room for the handgaurd cap? Do you have to leave a gap when using a low pro gas block or can you mount it flush to the shoulder?
jrsteensen
02-06-14, 10:43
Just saw your offerings, and you are local. Wish I had seen this before ordering my last AR. I do know where I will be getting my next though!
trident82,
Great detailed pics, thanks!
Thanks for the great picks from me also. Can you post the barrel dia. behind and in front of the gas block journal. This looks very similar to the Noveske N4 light. Mine is a 14.5 and measures .700 to the journal and .680 in front to the muzzle. I am looking at the Sionics 16 inch for a build. I am very interested in your test results. Thanks in advance Trident82.
My pleasure gents, and glad they're helpful :)
RE: measurements
Behind...
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/63982e89-27d9-46dd-8468-d7560ca12d7c_zps8179a13f.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/63982e89-27d9-46dd-8468-d7560ca12d7c_zps8179a13f.jpg.html)
After...
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/b26d74e2-cdb5-444c-9249-fd2f23de1b80_zpsf45686ce.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/b26d74e2-cdb5-444c-9249-fd2f23de1b80_zpsf45686ce.jpg.html)
eta.... the weight is 29 oz.
richdkim77
02-06-14, 15:45
SIONICS barrel and receiver set.
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/UWone77/IMG_1465_zpsee9abb7a.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/UWone77/media/IMG_1465_zpsee9abb7a.jpg.html)
Recon config./build complete....next step accuracy/precision testing w/ commonly used factory loads :)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/4ba4827d-8c2b-4773-84dd-361aef9e77ea_zps7bbbfcb8.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/4ba4827d-8c2b-4773-84dd-361aef9e77ea_zps7bbbfcb8.jpg.html)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/46673406-f417-4a5a-a0e7-2043ff1f9d7a_zpsb7b3cb7e.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/46673406-f417-4a5a-a0e7-2043ff1f9d7a_zpsb7b3cb7e.jpg.html)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/7b6b599e-c086-4afb-aada-0f06e45f18be_zps7c05d50a.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/7b6b599e-c086-4afb-aada-0f06e45f18be_zps7c05d50a.jpg.html)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/c50d4cd2-c997-44b4-b25c-66ddac25109d_zpsd7c6038b.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/c50d4cd2-c997-44b4-b25c-66ddac25109d_zpsd7c6038b.jpg.html)
Nice job, Trident. Did you pin the G-block?
richdkim77
02-10-14, 13:22
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/UWone77/IMG_1505_zpsf0e0c32b.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/UWone77/media/IMG_1505_zpsf0e0c32b.jpg.html)
Richard, we need to send you a selector and a set of the EPS to complete the build! :D
Richard, we need to send you a selector and a set of the EPS to complete the build! :D
I used your pins and have a selector housing on the way :D I gotta say those pins are pretty slick, the magnet for the pivot pin makes the install very smooth. Terrible inside cell phone photo. Hope to get some better ones soon when I finish this up and the weather gets a little better. Really looking forward to getting this thing outside and ringing it out. This is my first venture into keymod and my first Noveske SS barrel.
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n136/greenroundhill/file_zps21ee948a.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/greenroundhill/media/file_zps21ee948a.jpg.html)
Nice job, Trident. Did you pin the G-block?
Thanks brother, on that particular install I decided to save some time and just use the set screws. I have however pinned another SGB without any difficulty.
Just when I was gonna start my accuracy/precision evaluation of this new barrel, the deep south decides it needs a little more snow, and ice over the next several days :suicide2:
Thanks brother, on that particular install I decided to save some time and just use the set screws. I have however pinned another SGB without any difficulty.
Just when I was gonna start my accuracy/precision evaluation of this new barrel, the deep south decides it needs a little more snow, and ice over the next several days :suicide2:
No kidding! After the debacle in Atlanta a couple of weeks ago, they're acting like it's Armageddon right now. Half the city has announced closings starting tomorrow.
Looking forward to seeing some accuracy results on these barrels soon.
Gotta head out to dinner real quick, but I just got done doing a large portion of the 100yd and in stuff with this new barrel.....and as I thought after seeing the muzzle end of this barrel, it's no doubt a very strong performer.
I'll post the data, groups, velocity strings, and all the pics after dinner tonight.....but I just had to post this group I got with the SIONICS barrel & surprisingly enough MK262.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/sionic_zpse3cb8766.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/sionic_zpse3cb8766.jpg.html)
unedited:
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/6cebbc72-2b0c-453c-af27-b44132e7f22d_zps6b50fb8c.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/6cebbc72-2b0c-453c-af27-b44132e7f22d_zps6b50fb8c.jpg.html)
You can always count on Mk262 for a good flyer! ;)
LOL...screw you old buddy for noticing that I screwed up a potential uber group;) I even know the shot I pulled...it was the 7th. At least it wasn't the 9th which I've done several times. It makes me so sick, but it's no doubt why I love precision shooting.
Being from the school of Molon, I never call a flyer in terms of removing it from the group measurement...just feels dishonest to me.
LOL...screw you old buddy for noticing that I screwed up a potential uber group;) I even know the shot I pulled...it was the 7th. At least it wasn't the 9th which I've done several times. It makes me so sick, but it's no doubt why I love precision shooting.
Being from the school of Molon, I never call a flyer in terms of removing it from the group measurement...just feels dishonest to me.
LOL! :p I hear you man! I just seem to always get one with MK262. Still pretty impressive. Looking forward to seeing what it does with some other loads.
Your right it's very common for heavy projectiles, especially ones that are smoking hot to take a cpl. hundred yards to fully settle. While I don't fully understand the external ballistics involved with this, I've seen it play out in the real world enough to fully believe the premise. That's why I love the poly tipped 50-60gr projectiles with the flat bases for practicing 100yd groupings. Don't get me wrong though....I screwed up totally as the shooter on that flyer, rather than one of the MK262 rounds failing to fully stabilize thus causing a mechanical flyer.
I'm not getting too formal with organizing the below data until I gather everything I need to fully complete the evaluation, at which time I'll be posting my complete evaluation in a much more organized, and technical manner.
My end evaluation will follow my last barrel eval. writeup very closely for those interested in my overall end game here....
Evaluating Daniel Defense's 14.5" CHF LW 5.56 barrel... (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?111488-Evaluating-Daniel-Defense-s-14-5-quot-CHF-LW-5-56-barrel)
Part 1: Precision/accuracy testing
Conditions:
Temp: 42-50 degrees F (5hr. shooting session)
Alt: 546ft.
humidity: 78%
pressure: 29.94 -->
Wind: SW @ 8mph
Pics of the setup.....all groups are fired from prone with rear bag, and Atlas V8 up front. All groups are 10rds minus the first with the initial cold bore sighter, and all are done at 100yds. No called flyers, or otherwise group shrinking techniques.
Barrel temps are constantly being monitored over the duration of accuracy/precision testing via infrared thermometer...with temps never reaching much higher than the ambient outside temp.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/20e289a1-ef19-4d60-8549-0eb2247199a4_zpsbc67db7f.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/20e289a1-ef19-4d60-8549-0eb2247199a4_zpsbc67db7f.jpg.html)
For a number of years now, all my barrels get a "control" using three 10rd groups with one of my very favorite rounds to shoot....the Hornady 55gr. VMAX. Essentially this is my version of Molons hand loaded Sierra 55 grain BlitzKings he used always as his control.
The Control: 3 groups of Hornady 55gr. Vmax
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/vmaxcontrol2_zpsb9840339.jpg
Next I do what I call snapshots.....numerous single 10rd groups with common factory loads.
L-R Federal Vitalshok .223 Nosler 60gr. Partition / Winc. PDX1 60gr. Splitcore HP / Hornady Zmax 55gr. / Hornady TAP 62gr. Barrier (the nuclear power plant loading..not the most recent lighter 60gr. version)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/snaps2_zps72ca20f7.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/snaps2_zps72ca20f7.jpg.html)
Best group/snapshot of the day.....MK262
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/sionic_zpse3cb8766.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/sionic_zpse3cb8766.jpg.html)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Part 2: Velocity testing
The setup:
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/4f1fc3ed-8755-4152-bd9e-6a0b2a438e9a_zpspohbjw9e.jpg
10rd. Velocity strings....Oehler 35P proof screen (Thanks Slomo as usual for so generously sending me the 35P to use) 10yds from muzzle Same conditions as recorded above.
Winchester M855 (Q3269)
+ 2970
- 2886
E 84
M 2933
S 37
Hornady Zmax 55gr
+ 2882
- 2861
E 21
M 2873
S 8
Winchester PDX1 60gr. Splitcore HP
+ 2911
- 2884
E 27
M 2894
E 9
Lastly from today.....redneck ballistic testing my two HD/PD loadings....the Fusion 62gr., and Barnes VORTX 55gr. TSX at 100yds.
Both loads had violent initial upsets upon entry into, and out of the first jug, where they both then traveled in a downward straight angle through another complete 2 jugs....ultimately ending up in Neverland.
100yd view facing the firing line.....grouping board on left( yeah I like shooting groups if you can tell:) ), ballistic jug testing on right.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/b7d3a2d7-c400-40ff-ad23-65eca2b36e79_zpseb508f64.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/b7d3a2d7-c400-40ff-ad23-65eca2b36e79_zpseb508f64.jpg.html)
Results....
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/41dee08b-f7c1-4699-97a4-8610e4b97add_zpsce45e103.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/41dee08b-f7c1-4699-97a4-8610e4b97add_zpsce45e103.jpg.html)
It was nice to see Josh and Will again after the SHOT show. I went to a presentation they were doing for a client of Sionics, the Sinoics AR is a joy to hold, quality throughout, a duty grade, no nonsense AR as you would expect from Will.
I found that we and Sionics have much in common, which shouldn't be surprising as we get along very well from the beginning. Like us, they care about quality and their customers. If their AR happens to look nice, and it does, it's coincidental.
You can always count on Mk262 for a good flyer! ;)
Black Hills.
Being from the school of Molon, I never call a flyer in terms of removing it from the group measurement...just feels dishonest to me.
He's a nazi. I rarely shoot the 10 round crap. Can't sit still that long. I did do it for my Crimp/No Crimp test on my 77 SMK load though. (no crimp more than doubled the group size interestingly enough)
TRIDENT82, thanks a ton for the detailed (as always) write-up. I have not had the opportunity to stretch the legs on my Sionics rifle past 50 meters, and it's helpful to see what you've wrung out of the barrel.
Hard for me to tell from the pics, but what is the optic you are using?
My pleasure brother, and the optic I was using was a nightforce NXS c 2.5-10x24 w/ mil dot ret.
Normally I prefer to use the NXSc 2.5-10x32, as it's significantly more forgiving, and end user friendly when shooting groups.
SilverBullet432
02-19-14, 14:12
Search results: sorry if i missed the talk earlier, but i searched and landed here. Im assuming the sionics np3 bcg is gtg? Specs seem legit on the site and the price is flat out awesome! Wanting one for my .300blk upper. Thanks.
Your right it's very common for heavy projectiles, especially ones that are smoking hot to take a cpl. hundred yards to fully settle. While I don't fully understand the external ballistics involved with this, I've seen it play out in the real world enough to fully believe the premise. That's why I love the poly tipped 50-60gr projectiles with the flat bases for practicing 100yd groupings.
Trident, as always thank you for your excellent posts. Always look forward to your threads/posts.
Regarding the statement above, here and there I've read of seasoned shooters saying the same....that it may take a couple of hundred yards for certain projectiles to "settle down". I'm far from an expert on this, but I've seen a few slow motion youtube videos showing how a barrel whips or flexes when shot. Was wondering, do you think the projectile coming out of a barrel as it whips/flexes has something to do with this? I'm not sure if the bullet gets out of the barrel before any barrel movement occurs. I would venture to guess that if the bullet leaves the barrel just as the barrel whip starts to occur, that it would give a little wobble to the bullet. Again, I'm far from an expert, but am curious as to the why of a bullet needing to "settle down".
Trident, as always thank you for your excellent posts. Always look forward to your threads/posts.
Regarding the statement above, here and there I've read of seasoned shooters saying the same....that it may take a couple of hundred yards for certain projectiles to "settle down". I'm far from an expert on this, but I've seen a few slow motion youtube videos showing how a barrel whips or flexes when shot. Was wondering, do you think the projectile coming out of a barrel as it whips/flexes has something to do with this? I'm not sure if the bullet gets out of the barrel before any barrel movement occurs. I would venture to guess that if the bullet leaves the barrel just as the barrel whip starts to occur, that it would give a little wobble to the bullet. Again, I'm far from an expert, but am curious as to the why of a bullet needing to "settle down".
Thanks brother, and your kind words are always appreciated.
That sounds logical enough, however I believe the critical component in play here is bullet yaw coming out of the barrel, and how every different bullet has different amounts of yaw leaving the barrel.
Once the bullet clears the muzzle, a force called "yaw" comes into effect. Air friction combined with centrifugal force will cause the bullet to yaw and go into a spiral, reaching a diameter as large as a few inches. As the bullet travels down range the gyro effect from the spinning bullet will eventually dissipate yaw from which point on, the bullet will remain on a straight path and drop due to gravity. The point at which the yaw disappears is when the bullet "goes to sleep, or fully settles. The longer the bullet, the farther the bullet must travel before the spiral will dissipate.
Bullet length, weight, and RPM all determine the size of the yaw spiral, but for the sake of this topic..it's the bullet length were talking about b/t .223 bullets. The longer the bullet is in relation to the diameter, the larger the yaw spiral will be in diameter...thus The longer the bullet, the farther the bullet must travel before the spiral will dissipate.
Simple version.... envision spinning a toy top- at first its over spun and spirals, slows a bit then settles into a stable rotation on a single point, if it slows beyond a certain rpm, it wobbles and then tumbles.
Lastly here is a graphic that kinda illustrates my premise from above...
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Misc_Images/Zhukov/FleetYaw1.jpg
Thanks for the post and feedback. We have many people that are able to get MOA groups quite consistently. We will have our new barrels with a few weeks and we are excited to start releasing some of the new product line.
Thanks brother, and your kind words are always appreciated.
That sounds logical enough, however I believe the critical component in play here is bullet yaw coming out of the barrel, and how every different bullet has different amounts of yaw leaving the barrel.
Once the bullet clears the muzzle, a force called "yaw" comes into effect. Air friction combined with centrifugal force will cause the bullet to yaw and go into a spiral, reaching a diameter as large as a few inches. As the bullet travels down range the gyro effect from the spinning bullet will eventually dissipate yaw from which point on, the bullet will remain on a straight path and drop due to gravity. The point at which the yaw disappears is when the bullet "goes to sleep, or fully settles. The longer the bullet, the farther the bullet must travel before the spiral will dissipate.
Bullet length, weight, and RPM all determine the size of the yaw spiral, but for the sake of this topic..it's the bullet length were talking about b/t .223 bullets. The longer the bullet is in relation to the diameter, the larger the yaw spiral will be in diameter...thus The longer the bullet, the farther the bullet must travel before the spiral will dissipate.
Simple version.... envision spinning a toy top- at first its over spun and spirals, slows a bit then settles into a stable rotation on a single point, if it slows beyond a certain rpm, it wobbles and then tumbles.
Lastly here is a graphic that kinda illustrates my premise from above...
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Misc_Images/Zhukov/FleetYaw1.jpg
Thanks for taking the time to post your info. Your spinning top analogy makes it understandable. Appreciate it! Looking forward to more of your posts.
Thanks for the post and feedback. We have many people that are able to get MOA groups quite consistently. We will have our new barrels with a few weeks and we are excited to start releasing some of the new product line.
I'll be visiting family in Marana next month and, if time permits, will be stopping by. I have a new build in mind and the Sionics barrel is my leading contender right now.
We will have our new barrels with a few weeks and we are excited to start releasing some of the new product line.
New barrels?
18" SPR barrels that have a bead blasted look as opposed to the shiny. 16" midlength Melonite barrels, 11.5" Melonite barrels, as well as the standard chrome lined, etc.. We will also be looking at revising some of the profiles and possibly a lightweight barrel.
New barrels?
CMV melonite barrels or SS?
shutup&shoot
02-20-14, 19:11
Question for IG. Will there be any stock or grip choices added to the line up?
eternal24k
02-20-14, 20:17
18" SPR barrels that have a bead blasted look as opposed to the shiny. 16" midlength Melonite barrels, 11.5" Melonite barrels, as well as the standard chrome lined, etc.. We will also be looking at revising some of the profiles and possibly a lightweight barrel.
Sweet.
Put a vote in for 11.5" with FSB
Would also love to see you guys get into .308 barrels
4150 Melonite. SS barrels will remain SS.
CMV melonite barrels or SS?
Stocks yes. Our thought is that people aren't paying for the stock or grip. That is why we have lowers with no stocks and the Ergo grip. You will be seeing more stocks like the B5 SOPMODs and Bravo. People are so picky about grips and stuff that we are trying to focus on the core of the weapon which is the rail, upper/lower, barrel, BCG, etc...
Question for IG. Will there be any stock or grip choices added to the line up?
We don't build .308 rifles so we won't do those barrels. There are too many variations, standards, etc... in the .308 market. I do believe that we are going to do some 4150 barrels with FSB's. I think we are also talking about doing some SBR uppers very soon as well.
Sweet.
Put a vote in for 11.5" with FSB
Would also love to see you guys get into .308 barrels
SeriousStudent
02-20-14, 22:11
Agree on the 11.5" with the FSB. I'd buy one.
SilverBullet432
02-20-14, 22:32
Search results: sorry if i missed the talk earlier, but i searched and landed here. Im assuming the sionics np3 bcg is gtg? Specs seem legit on the site and the price is flat out awesome! Wanting one for my .300blk upper. Thanks.
:help: maybe?
birdkiller
02-21-14, 14:00
possibly a lightweight barrel.
That would be money right there. I've been looking at your current 16" barrel for a build, but a lighter-weight barrel is really what I'm wanting.
I think people put too much on the barrel thing. For example- we just put together a carbine for a training group in CA that uses our barrel, a 15" MI KEYMOD rail, Battle Comp, etc.. and it weighed out at just over 6lbs. 5.5 oz. That is pretty light. That also included a B5 Bravo stock and H buffer.
That would be money right there. I've been looking at your current 16" barrel for a build, but a lighter-weight barrel is really what I'm wanting.
Maverick07
02-21-14, 19:36
Question about the website: It does not allow me to purchase an upper. I can cart the lower just fine. Since these are built per order is there a reason the upper cannot be purchased at this time? I don't want to have purchase the whole rifle as I have a BCG, charging handle and sights.
For you guys that have been running these rifles for that last year or so.......how are they doing in comparison to a BCM? I like the Sionic barrel profile, just wondering how it performs in comparison to a cold hammer forged barrel.
Word must be spreading, went to order a BCG and got a message saying all products are on backorder 4-6 weeks. That was yesterday, today it says 6-8! Looking forward to the new products.
SilverBullet432
02-21-14, 22:25
Word must be spreading, went to order a BCG and got a message saying all products are on backorder 4-6 weeks. That was yesterday, today it says 6-8! Looking forward to the new products.
Aww man....
I think there was some site maintenance happening. It should be up and running again.
Word must be spreading, went to order a BCG and got a message saying all products are on backorder 4-6 weeks. That was yesterday, today it says 6-8! Looking forward to the new products.
Sorry to bump an old thread. I ordered a Sionics upper a couple weeks ago. I emailed to ask if the 6-8 weeks is realistic. This is the response I got-
Thanks for the order and the e-mail. We are pleased to report that although we can’t give you an exact ship-date, we are expecting that we will be able to ship your upper ahead of schedule and save you a few weeks.
Thanks again for your business.
Sorry to bump, but a couple of questions:
I'm interested in buying the Patrol Rifle Mk.2 with the Geissele rail (complete rifle) in a few weeks. Are the rifles built to order, or are they stocking items? If they're built to order, what lead time is typical?
Also, I've seen a few shops as I was googling around which appeared to have the rifles in stock. Would they have the rifles ready to ship, or is SIONICS building for them as they receive orders (basically, will I get the rifle faster ordering from one of these dealers)?
They are stocked. My wait time was around 8 weeks, but they were waiting on parts and the website listed the delay. They are now showing as available, so I'm guessing there is no wait. I'd highly recommend emailing them. They're very helpful.
We have everything in stock to the best of my knowledge. If you purchased one now, I am pretty sure it would be ready in about 7-10 days. We killed recently with our lowers and then some dept orders we had. I think the new ones are being inspected now and should be good to go.
Sorry to bump, but a couple of questions:
I'm interested in buying the Patrol Rifle Mk.2 with the Geissele rail (complete rifle) in a few weeks. Are the rifles built to order, or are they stocking items? If they're built to order, what lead time is typical?
Also, I've seen a few shops as I was googling around which appeared to have the rifles in stock. Would they have the rifles ready to ship, or is SIONICS building for them as they receive orders (basically, will I get the rifle faster ordering from one of these dealers)?
Is there any intention to sell stripped lowers? My psa lower looks like garbage next to my sionics upper.
We have everything in stock to the best of my knowledge. If you purchased one now, I am pretty sure it would be ready in about 7-10 days. We killed recently with our lowers and then some dept orders we had. I think the new ones are being inspected now and should be good to go.
I too would be all over a Sonics stripped lower. I am looking into them for my next barrel also. Great stuff IG and Sonics
BufordTJustice
08-11-14, 18:48
I too would be all over a Sonics stripped lower. I am looking into them for my next barrel also. Great stuff IG and Sonics
Yeah. A Sionics stripped lower would be tatas-plus.
Ran a Haley Strategic carbine class with a Sionics Patrol Rifle MK2 recently. Not a single issue. Great gun. Haley had plenty of good things to say about the companies employees/owner.
At this point I believe we can add Sionics to the "approved" list.
Absolutely.
Ran a Haley Strategic carbine class with a Sionics Patrol Rifle MK2 recently. Not a single issue. Great gun. Haley had plenty of good things to say about the companies employees/owner.
At this point I believe we can add Sionics to the "approved" list.
jerrysimons
08-11-14, 22:37
Ran a Haley Strategic carbine class with a Sionics Patrol Rifle MK2 recently. Not a single issue. Great gun. Haley had plenty of good things to say about the companies employees/owner.
At this point I believe we can add Sionics to the "approved" list.
Absolutely, Sionics is GTG!
Sionics stuff is a great value--high quality and reasonable cost (very similar to BCM). I'm not sure I could get one of their lowers, though. The pizza logo would make me hungry every time I look at it.
Free Agent
08-12-14, 09:27
Sionics stuff is a great value--high quality and reasonable cost (very similar to BCM). I'm not sure I could get one of their lowers, though. The pizza logo would make me hungry every time I look at it.
I have to agree. I bought their patrol rifle zero upper with their BCG to put on a BCM lower as my spare rifle . I really like the medium profile of their barrel. I've since zeroed it and ran it threw a few range sessions. The quality seems to be up there with the rest of them.
However their logo on their lowers is not appealing to me. I know those things don't/shouldn't matter but it does to some point for me. The best part is I paid $337 for the upper and BCG shipped during the sales around the 4th of July.
Eurodriver
08-12-14, 09:57
If I were in the market for yet another MOE forearmed Midlength, I would buy Sionics PR Zero. No doubt.
VLTOR stock, ALG trigger, A5 RE, Gunfighter CH and quality parts for $1,120? Maybe I'll just buy another one anyway.
richdkim77
08-12-14, 10:57
I too would be all over a Sonics stripped lower. I am looking into them for my next barrel also. Great stuff IG and Sonics
I got my SIONICS receivers stripped. They had a killer deal awhile back, cerakoted upper and lower for $179 I think.
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/UWone77/IMG_1449_zps9fb3c73f.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/UWone77/media/IMG_1449_zps9fb3c73f.jpg.html)
jerrysimons
08-12-14, 11:41
I have to agree. I bought their patrol rifle zero upper with their BCG to put on a BCM lower as my spare rifle . I really like the medium profile of their barrel. I've since zeroed it and ran it threw a few range sessions. The quality seems to be up there with the rest of them.
However their logo on their lowers is not appealing to me. I know those things don't/shouldn't matter but it does to some point for me. The best part is I paid $337 for the upper and BCG shipped during the sales around the 4th of July.
Man! You too? I feel like I stole something that was such a good price from Rog Tac! I thought I got the only one. $337 shipped for a Patrol Zero Upper, 16" chrome med cont. mid, Nickel boron BCG, black MOE handguard. Unbeatable!
I'll probably pick up their A5 lower for $420 and I have a spare Sopmod stock and LMT rear sight laying around. A complete rifle made right for with upgrade parts for about $950 (including spare parts value)!
Free Agent
08-12-14, 13:04
Man! You too? I feel like I stole something that was such a good price from Rog Tac! I thought I got the only one. $337 shipped for a Patrol Zero Upper, 16" chrome med cont. mid, Nickel boron BCG, black MOE handguard. Unbeatable!
I'll probably pick up their A5 lower for $420 and I have a spare Sopmod stock and LMT rear sight laying around. A complete rifle made right for with upgrade parts for about $950 (including spare parts value)!
Yes exactly. I had no intention on buying another upper at that time but there was no way I was passing up a deal like that. I really like that they have the QMS and A5 system as upgrade options on their lowers.
Where is this a5 equipped lower sold? Rog tac?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Where is this a5 equipped lower sold? Rog tac?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Directly from Sionics.
http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store/product.php?id_product=105
Blankwaffe
08-13-14, 00:13
Sionics stuff is a great value--high quality and reasonable cost (very similar to BCM). I'm not sure I could get one of their lowers, though. The pizza logo would make me hungry every time I look at it.
I agree,but it wouldn't ever stop me from buying a SIONICS lower......I say drop the "pizza" logo and just use the "SIONICS" roll mark as a logo.Will make the lowers roll mark look cleaner,not as cluttered.
BufordTJustice
08-13-14, 08:03
I agree,but it wouldn't ever stop me from buying a SIONICS lower......I say drop the "pizza" logo and just use the "SIONICS" roll mark as a logo.Will make the lowers roll mark look cleaner,not as cluttered.
It's still better than the dueling dicks logo on my current spikes lower. Perspective, bra. It's relative. ;)
Free Agent
08-13-14, 10:04
It's still better than the dueling dicks logo on my current spikes lower. Perspective, bra. It's relative. ;)
Haha. Very true. The spikes logo is horrible.
urbankaos04
08-26-14, 16:03
Are the 16" middy CL LWT barrels still available? Or have they been replaced with the melonited barrels?
http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store/product.php?id_product=67
Like this?
urbankaos04
08-26-14, 16:50
Negative. The barrel I saw was a pencil barrel with a .625 gas journal. I found the melonited version, but was looking for the CL barrel.
We never had 16" CL lightweight barrels. We have 16" medium contour barrels that are chrome and melonite. We have a 16" lightweight melonite barrel as well. And we have the 11.5" CL and melonited barrels.
Are the 16" middy CL LWT barrels still available? Or have they been replaced with the melonited barrels?
urbankaos04
08-26-14, 23:43
IG: Thanks for the response. I have no idea what I looked at that made me think you had such a barrel in production. :confused:
SeriousStudent
08-26-14, 23:43
But when are ya gonna get schwag?? I want to buy a SIONICS ball cap to wear to the range, and impress all my friends.
My ratty old Surefire cap started speaking some weird alien dialect, and I finally had to wash it. It just ain't the same.
We are working on some stuff. Quite honestly we have been busy with the Axelson Tactical "AXE" rifles and the other agency contracts that we have picked up in AZ, GA and other places.
But when are ya gonna get schwag?? I want to buy a SIONICS ball cap to wear to the range, and impress all my friends.
My ratty old Surefire cap started speaking some weird alien dialect, and I finally had to wash it. It just ain't the same.
Does the geiselle gas block have the nitride finish?
http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store/product.php?id_product=126
But when are ya gonna get schwag??
I can't even get Gunz to pick up FREE AMMO!!! And you want Golf Club covers and Sweat bands? :sarcastic:
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