View Full Version : Baffled.........
TheGhostRider
01-12-08, 21:40
So I go down to the local meeting spot to talk to some of my acquaintances who are police officers.
Were shootin the shit when the topic turned to ARs. As it turns out they have all "ditched the colts and are going with rock rivers".
At this point I'm intrigued to say the least and I ask why....
"Cause RRA are lower cost and are much higher quality than Colts".
I shit you not. This was the reply I got.
I don't get it..........Have I missed something?
find out for me where they are selling those Crappy second class colt's, I'll buy them!
Don Robison
01-12-08, 21:49
find out for me where they are selling those Crappy second class colt's, I'll buy them!
I'll buy their second hand sub-par Colt's from them....................at sub-par price of course.
They sound like a wealth of knowledge on the AR:rolleyes:
Sounds like the guys who approved the patrol rifles for my agency. No, you have not missed anything because the information ("knowledge") you were provided is quite far from reality.
Rock Rivers are very good rifles, but I'd rather have a Colt.
TheGhostRider
01-12-08, 22:26
I almost puked up a little when I heard these comments. I'm actually surprised at the volume of officers who share the same attitude. This is not just a local fad either, it's actually fairly widespread around here.
John_Wayne777
01-12-08, 22:27
Police departments can get sucked into bad information just as much as anyone else.
Patrick Aherne
01-12-08, 23:49
Working for a police department does not make one an expert in weaponry. As an aside, would you ask a cop what transmission fluid to put in your car, based on what they run in their Crown Vic? Most cops are users, and while they might actually use their weapons, unlike most on TOS, they don't know sheeit other than what it looks like. Fit and finish, you know?
Plus, cops are cheap.
The_Biased_Observer
01-13-08, 00:00
Hey guess what, the Crown Vic is also the most used patrol car.........:
RRA's are fine for use on patrol, they are not fine for 1000 rounds a day uber ultra rifle fighting classes and the like.
Somehow, somewhere someone made the mistake to think all cops are weapons experts and are routinely shooting thousands of rounds a year. For the most part, they aren't.
On a related note, I do know of a certain Federal agency who uses RRA rifles under a contract.
On a related note, I do know of a certain Federal agency who uses RRA rifles under a contract.
True.
I can think of a few like the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines who use Colt and FN rifles too. :D
-RD62
I'm glad someone else mentioned the car thing, because I used to use that example all the time when I worked in a gun shop. A customer would come in and flat insist on one make/model of gun because his brother's wife's cousin was a cop and he had one. I always asked to see their Crown Vic parked outside and they never got the joke.
Did they mention what makes the RRA better? Not knocking RRA, but a Colt they are not...
I like the patrol car analogy......very good!
TheGhostRider
01-13-08, 11:23
Did they mention what makes the RRA better? Not knocking RRA, but a Colt they are not...
I like the patrol car analogy......very good!
Yes.
1:Fit and finish is much better therefore the quality is also.
2:The DEA buys only the best.
3:No malfunctions ever.
:rolleyes:
Don't get me wrong.... I am in no-way knocking RRA. They are what they are.
But this group of guys are not what one would consider to be "average".
Most have military backgrounds with excellent "real" credentials.
That's why I'm "baffled". These are not guys who never held a gun until they were in the service or became LEO. These are guys who grew up hunting and shooting.
Jim Zumbo grew up hunting too..........
Robb Jensen
01-13-08, 11:46
They probably went with RRAs because Rock River could deliver them in a reasonable time frame and they were significantly cheaper than Colt. The DEA contract really brought RRA to the mainstream, after that people began thinking they're 'just-as-good-as' Colt.
With a few tweaks here and there a RRA can be a damn good rifle for 99% of the people out there.
Jay Cunningham
01-13-08, 11:50
Hunter, shooter, .mil service, LEO are not good indicators that someone knows what they are talking about when it comes to AR's.
Most idiotic stupidity re: AR's I've heard has been from cops and guys who were in the Army.
That being said, the guys I've talked to who have known the most about the platform have also been LEO's and .mil ~ however they were serious end-users.
Rob- I like that one! That's much easier than explaining it but I'm sure with these rockheads you WOULD have to explain it if you wanted them to understand...
Crown vic is a good car. :p
yeah for cops and child molesters who want to look like a cop.
Yes.
1:Fit and finish is much better therefore the quality is also.
As someone else put it... Fit and finish is what people talk about, when they have nothing else to talk about.
2:The DEA buys only the best.
LMAO
3:No malfunctions ever.
Safe dwellers, then.
I've seen a bunch of Rock Rivers defecate upon the sheets.
And every gun will malfunction, eventually, when used enough.
These are not guys who never held a gun until they were in the service or became LEO. These are guys who grew up hunting and shooting.
Some of the worst guns and ammo advice I've ever heard was from folks that "grew up hunting and shooting." With some exceptions, the only things they had of use were their bad examples, where to find game, a few hunting tricks, good recipes, and help carrying/loading/butchering.
As a RRA owner, I'm not gonna knock 'em. Like somone else said they are what they are. I bought it before I knew better. I have upgraded mine wherever possible to aid it's reliability, and so far it has been good. That said, it's not a Colt. And even though mine has a chrome lined barrel, I've still had to stake and restake areas, extractor upgrades, replace the extension with Mil-spec and the bolt with a BC MPI, it's still not a Colt, although I've spent enough money on it to have bought one. They are easier to find than Colts, but you often have to shop more for quality.
-RD62
Safe dwellers, then.
I've seen a bunch of Rock Rivers defecate upon the sheets.
And every gun will malfunction, eventually, when used enough.
So true. I just recently took my first carbine course and it was a great experiece for many reasons to include finding what does and doesn't work and seeing some gear you might not get to see, and see it used. We didn't have many failures, but did have some to include an EOTech (batteries), at least one Aimpoint I saw (bad switch), and one very nice MK18 clone whose unpinned gas block came loose. All were quality gear, but they went TU.
My RRA ran fine though, probably due to it's fit and finish. :D
-RD62
Hey, Rock River's 1911s are better than Colt's 1911s. "Fit" is very important with 1911s.
It's entirely beside the point and has little bearing on their respective ARs, but I had to say it. :D
yeah for cops and child molesters who want to look like a cop.
Never heard of a perv in a vic. Around here it's usually construction pickups.
RogerinTPA
01-13-08, 16:22
yeah for cops and child molesters who want to look like a cop.
LOL...Oh S%#T! I just got a pamphlet from the Sheriff's Office notifying the block that one of our neighbors just got arrested for lewd and lascivious acts in a near by park, yanking his willy in public. He drives a Crown Vic!:p
Yes.
1:Fit and finish is much better therefore the quality is also.
2:The DEA buys only the best.
3:No malfunctions ever.
:rolleyes:
Don't get me wrong.... I am in no-way knocking RRA. They are what they are.
But this group of guys are not what one would consider to be "average".
Most have military backgrounds with excellent "real" credentials.
That's why I'm "baffled". These are not guys who never held a gun until they were in the service or became LEO. These are guys who grew up hunting and shooting.
1:Fit and finish is much better therefore the quality is also. 10 on the GAYDAR!
2:The DEA buys only the best. Wrong as two boys F*CKING!
3:No malfunctions ever. ALL AR's function 100% sitting in the trunk.
C4
dwhitehorne
01-13-08, 17:09
Maybe they were talking about ditching the vietnam era M16A1's like my agency has. Some of the cool "operators" in my agency have RRA carbines. The rest of us have rifles. Mine was built in 1972 an it looks like new. I wonder if the RRA's will be inservice in 35 years. Most cops no nothing about firearms. It's actually quite scary sometimes. David
1:Fit and finish is much better therefore the quality is also. 10 on the GAYDAR!
2:The DEA buys only the best. Wrong as two boys F*CKING!
3:No malfunctions ever. ALL AR's function 100% sitting in the trunk.
C4
Very well said. Oh well....more Colt availability for others that need them. These Guy's need them too, that's the crazy part. The title of this thread is spot on.
TheGhostRider
01-13-08, 17:43
1:Fit and finish is much better therefore the quality is also. 10 on the GAYDAR!
2:The DEA buys only the best. Wrong as two boys F*CKING!
3:No malfunctions ever. ALL AR's function 100% sitting in the trunk.
C4
Holy shit.............
C4.... You owe me a new keyboard! I just spewed beer all over the place!!!:p :D
However, what you said is true.
Holy shit.............
C4.... You owe me a new keyboard! I just spewed beer all over the place!!!:p :D
However, what you said is true.
Sorry, get a little pissed when I see such ignorance.
I apologize for the vulgar language (if anyone is offended).
C4
Maybe they were talking about ditching the vietnam era M16A1's like my agency has. Some of the cool "operators" in my agency have RRA carbines. The rest of us have rifles. Mine was built in 1972 an it looks like new. I wonder if the RRA's will be inservice in 35 years. Most cops no nothing about firearms. It's actually quite scary sometimes. David
That's actually a very good point. The "POS Colts" they had may well have been 30 years old.
I'm glad someone else mentioned the car thing, because I used to use that example all the time when I worked in a gun shop. A customer would come in and flat insist on one make/model of gun because his brother's wife's cousin was a cop and he had one. I always asked to see their Crown Vic parked outside and they never got the joke.
I'm not following, I drive a 2003 Police Interceptor. Not because cops use it, but because it is a reasonably robust RWD V-8 full-size 4-door sedan that isn't a unibody. Plus, it was cheap.
Is there something I should know about the Crown Vic????
TheGhostRider
01-14-08, 17:11
I'm not following, I drive a 2003 Police Interceptor. Not because cops use it, but because it is a reasonably robust RWD V-8 full-size 4-door sedan that isn't a unibody. Plus, it was cheap.
Is there something I should know about the Crown Vic????
Ummmm..................
You don't by chance hang out in local parks with binoculars and not wearing any pants while setting in the vic do you?
:p:D :D :D
RogerinTPA
01-19-08, 11:22
That's actually a very good point. The "POS Colts" they had may well have been 30 years old.
Very good point. The US Army has warehouses full of used, barely used, rack grade, collector grade, and brand new, never used, very functional weapons in every configuration all the way back from WW I. They on occasion are given or sold to the Civilian Marksmanship Program and sold to those who qualify. Those 30 year old POS Colts are still very very serviceable weapons.
Kurt Reifert
01-19-08, 12:08
Pick up a gun rag and look for a Colt advertisement and then try not to notice the RRA ad.
Advertising and reviews are what sells guns and management pinheads get to make life and death decisions for street cops.
Did you know that Kimber makes the best 1911s? They advertise the most and get written up all of the time so they must be the best.
Heavy Metal
01-19-08, 14:30
How are RRA's cheaper than bought and paid for Colts?
...Grant, you crack me up...ROTFLMAO...and spewed the coffee...http://emoticons4u.com/evil/teu87.gif
Never heard of a perv in a vic. Around here it's usually construction pickups.
See- GhostRider Agrees!
The Colt I use at work is an SP1, no forward assist, three prong fh, with a 4 digit serial #. It is older than dirt, we also have AR's in various configurations from new A2's to rifles with A2 marked lowers without the mag button fence and low serial numbers.
The other large State Agency bought 3500 Bushmasters, we have leftover rifles from the earliest days of AR production.
RRA makes a decent product, but as is said most cops don't know anything about weapons beyond the academy course and the 50 rounds they have to fire for annual qualification. Which is why you can get department trade in pistols that are older models that have only holster wear on them, with bright shiny as new bores.
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