KeithD
05-28-12, 23:03
A few ARR's Sent to us by students
Who: Ed Sims
What: MDFI Shotgun 1 Course
When: 5-27-12
Where: Spectacle Lake Outdoor Club. Albion, MI
Gear: Winchester Ranger model 1300 (12 gauge pump). Raven Moduloader shotshell carrier. Maxpedition belt mounted dump pouch. Wilderness Tactical 3 stitch belt, 5.11 tactical pants.
What I Expected:
I was hoping to learn how to manage recoil while running a shotgun and to do some work with different shotgun loads. I also anticipated running select drills and honing my accuracy during these drills with several different types of shotgun loads.
What Actually Happened:
This class opened my eyes to the effectiveness and practicality of using a shotgun as a home/personal defense weapon. I have never lived in a home that did not contain at least five shotguns. Until May 26, 2012, I was a man who used various gauges and loads of shotguns to harvest wild game while hunting. I had always respected the shotgun as a reliable recreational weapon; however, it would probably not have been one of my first choices for personal defense.
Brad VanValkenburg and Keith Denman transformed me from a bunny blasting, deer slugging hunter into a person who can safely and effectively deliver fifteen or more accurate rounds of shotgun fire on target in less than one minute. Anyone who thinks the shotgun is not an effective and feasible method of personal protection simply has not run a shotgun properly. Period.
At the beginning of the day, I was fumbling to safely and quickly keep my shotgun fed and on target in a high stress situation. In my previous experience, I went “bang” until the animal was harvested or until I was out of shells. Then I reloaded. Those thoughts died quickly. We began with an assessment of our skills and right away, I knew I had a lot to learn. The expectation had been set without Brad or Keith having to say a word.
After the qualifier, we tested our guns at various distances with different loads of buckshot to determine patterning tendencies. We then spent the rest of the morning laying the groundwork for what was to become an intense afternoon of running those shotguns like we had never run them before. We learned about proper stance, shotgun workspace, emergency and administrative reloads, secondary sight picture, the push - pull technique for managing recoil, scan and assess, muzzle awareness and how to deliver quick, safe and accurate fire on multiple targets.
By lunch time, I was seriously down on myself. I had manipulated a shotgun for more than twenty years now and I was struggling to keep my gun fed and delivering accurate fire. I felt like I had just made it to game seven of the Stanley Cup Finals and lost.
When we got back onto the range after a much needed physical and mental break, we reviewed these fundamentals and then slowed it down a bit. We practiced shooting our guns at various distances with different slugs. This not only gave me insight to effective distances with my gun, but also lowered the stress level a bit and gave me time to remember one of the most important fundamentals: get your hits. Accuracy.
From this point on, we ran our shotguns and kept them fed through various drills at multiple distances. Once Keith and Brad felt we were getting the fundamentals hammered down, we explored shooting on the move, using cover and concealment, shooting from our weak side and safely transitioning between sides.
All this time, Brad and Keith were on top of us like a Drummond Island hound dog who just treed a bear. Safety was of the essence. After that, these guys were running us hard. I can still hear Brad standing behind me on the line reinforcing, “Shoot until you hear that click...you’d only be cheating yourself if this was a fight Ed Sims” and Keith hollering “Feed it, feed it, feed it.” They watched us and guided us as we went along.
After each drill the instructors took the time to offer constructive criticism and positive reinforcement. The criticism that was offered was immediately followed up by modeling and scaffolding from the instructor. The student was then expected to demonstrate the proper technique in a dry situation before running it hot on the line again.
Best Items I learned:
One of the best things that happened during this class was the opening of my mind to the shotgun as a realistic option for personal protection. The push pull technique in and of itself was worth the price of admission. Knowing how to keep a shotgun and side saddle fed and continuously delivering accurate fire while in a stationary position, on the move or from cover dispels and rumors discounting the shotgun in my opinion.
Critiques for the Instructors or Class Flow:
Class flow was nearly perfect. Being that there were only three students on this day gave the instructors more time to watch each student individually as well as keep an eye on the whole group. Each student had very little chance of making any mistake which carried the possibility of going uncorrected. One thing that I truly appreciated was that the class moved forward at a pace that was developmentally appropriate for our group. We were given ample time to watch and listen to the instructors, demonstrate our understanding of the technique, correct what we were doing wrong, ask questions and re-apply what was learned. There were plenty of opportunities between drills to gather ammo, hydrate, reflect and ask questions. With only three students, these guys kept it going all day long, no problem.
Gear Issues:
Ammo. I decided to be “Joe Up North Hunter Guy” and empty my gun safe of the vast array of game loads in a futile attempt to run them in this class. Big mistake trying to shoot more than twenty rounds (let alone 300+) of rapid fire twelve gauge high velocity game loads. Thankfully, Brad was prepared and patient enough to have extra ammo on hand. If you take a shotgun course use target loads for your bird shot count. Trust someone who is typing this with a bruised shoulder and who has no one to blame but himself.
Additionally, the stock on my shotgun is too long for me and I will look into rectifying this issue soon.
Summary:
Now that I know how to properly run a shotgun, I am looking forward to stocking up on ammo and hitting the range so that I can determine which one of my guns I can run most effectively. I am confident that I will be able to pass these skills on to my next generation of family members without batting an eye.
As a gun owner and a teacher myself I can personally and professionally attest to the fact that Brad and Keith honestly know their stuff and have a strong understanding of how people learn. These guys transferred enough knowledge in one day to keep me safe for a lifetime.
I am truly humbled by and eternally grateful to Brad VanValkenburg and Keith Denman for all that they have done for me. The only issue is that I may need a marriage counselor now since I anticipate spending more time with my shoguns than with my wife
----------------------------------------------
What: MDFI Shotgun 1
When: 5-27-12
Where: Spectacle Lake Outdoor Club. Albion, MI
Who: Gidaeon\Ryan
Gear: Pardner Pump 18.5" 12ga (H&R\NEF 870 import clone), Maxpedition dump pouch; Ammo: was basic big box store cheap stuff, some Italian LE 00, basic remington and winchester economy 00 and standard slugs.
What I Expected:Typical MDFI-like class construct of "big boy" rules, casual ribbing from friendly, knowledgeable instructors. Expected to hear about the importance of using\training with\knowing ones firearm and how it behaves at various distances with various ammo. Recoil management (from reading others past AAR's). Expected to find out areas where my 'setup' did not work out. Finally, a whole lot of fun. ..okay maybe I expected to go home a little sore and definitely tired!
I signed up because I once bought above shotgun just to have a shotgun frankly - but had never used it apart from a couple slugs testing function. I figured, "why own something I have no clue how to use?!?!".. I was well aware, that while I have a very long ways to go with pistol and carbine, my shotguns skills were surely an even weaker link!
What Actually Happened:
When we started off, Brad and Keith just watched us try our best (and to their credit they must have held it in while watching at least my abominable attempts at operating this mystery of a boom stick.
After attempting the initial qualifier, I was like "oh man.. what was I thinking coming here this unprepared - hope I don't slow the class down." Keith\Brad then explained push pull, did some patterning to show that all ammo\barrels\guns do not behave the same and left lasting impressions on the folly of "just buy whatever and put it away."
Drill showed us our effective range of slugs vs. buck. Rolling thunder was interesting with 3, but then a few others jumped in and it smoothed out and was a very productive and challenging exercise. Shooting at steel was nice feedback.
In short: glad I went - I'm better off for the experience. Worth the time\drive\ammo\tuition.
I learned push\pull can be done "backwards" and is thus not push\pull and will leave you feeling like an idiot for not asking to clarify initially. I learned when push\pull IS done, you are a much happier shot-gunner - when it is not you are a sad, and sore individual.
I learned staying square to target to target in fighting stance was a challenge, especially with a over-sized stock\LOP.
I have not and do not look to a shotgun for any primary HD purposes. This is due to having several small children in the home and looking to quick access safe(s) in which anything is kept loaded. I'm not going to suddenly have a loaded 12ga in my home but I with additional training, and the ability to safely store I'd have confidence in the shotgun. 5 rounds of 1oz slugs and maybe a few stand-by is something to be taken seriously.
I better understood and saw the whole "shotguns aren't seemingly as sexy, but they are deadly as deadly gets."
I learned that just because shotguns may seem "simple" to some people to operate doesn't mean they don't present a huge learning curve.
I learned you'd be a fool to buy one, load it with some random buckshot and stow it away in a closet and assume you are good to go. (I've never patterned buck before and was truly surprised how bad it was was at 7-10 yards with several of my loads!!)
I learned that I personally, would rely on slugs for any social purposes, unless I was faced with hordes of faceless enemies where I had no concern for unpredictable spread (my barrel wasn't impressive with various surplus 00 I tried - a little better with federal something)
Overall Best Items I learned:
Push\Pull (this is not natural and I certainly still struggled to implement at end of class - but I know its legit and needed!)
Also that random buck in the tube is a stupid idea.
That shotguns are not so simple you should just buy one, take it the range once and then assume you are GTG.
Critiques for the Instructors or Class Flow:
Well managed. I admit I like the small classes - with the extra attention.
Only suggestion is showing folks that are a little dense like me that actual directions with push pull since I tried backwards for the first portion of class until I asked. A picture, even a laminated one can sometimes be a supplement to verbal descriptions.
Gear Issues:
1) front sight bead flew off after 250-300 rounds (my fault I never checked or lock-tighted it)
2) standard stock is waaaaaay to long. Plan to replace with Youth - I will note for a "cheap" gun that is some impressive polymer. Toughest, & heaviest synthetic stock I've personally handled.
3) Forearm was too long, preventing from loading with ejection port towards ground. Common problem with an easy fix - I already cut back the "tail" of forearm so its not a future issue
Summary:I want to continue to use SG maybe another course in the future, but I feel like the carbine is almost easier to pick up and learn in some ways. A good hit with a slug would sure bring confidence when it counts though.. Class left me realizing the devastating capacity of a simple 5 round pump in the hands of some man that truly knows how to use it.
MDFI courses have shown me its silly to fret over the few bucks on a firearm, when the real "costs" are the time\money\ammo to learn to actually use the thing reliably. When it comes to personal protection ect., there is absolutely no room for pride. I went into this course hardly knowing the controls on my cheapo little shotgun (and it surely showed!) by the end of the course I frankly still struggled in some basic operation but had improved dramatically and was made aware of numerous areas that I didn't know I should be aware of.
Today, I have the tiniest bit of soreness (which could have been avoided with proper push\pull) but no visible bruising. I went home utterly exhausted - but for good reason.
Aside from practical instruction I've always met some great guys at class, which is also always an encouragement in its own right!
Who: Ed Sims
What: MDFI Shotgun 1 Course
When: 5-27-12
Where: Spectacle Lake Outdoor Club. Albion, MI
Gear: Winchester Ranger model 1300 (12 gauge pump). Raven Moduloader shotshell carrier. Maxpedition belt mounted dump pouch. Wilderness Tactical 3 stitch belt, 5.11 tactical pants.
What I Expected:
I was hoping to learn how to manage recoil while running a shotgun and to do some work with different shotgun loads. I also anticipated running select drills and honing my accuracy during these drills with several different types of shotgun loads.
What Actually Happened:
This class opened my eyes to the effectiveness and practicality of using a shotgun as a home/personal defense weapon. I have never lived in a home that did not contain at least five shotguns. Until May 26, 2012, I was a man who used various gauges and loads of shotguns to harvest wild game while hunting. I had always respected the shotgun as a reliable recreational weapon; however, it would probably not have been one of my first choices for personal defense.
Brad VanValkenburg and Keith Denman transformed me from a bunny blasting, deer slugging hunter into a person who can safely and effectively deliver fifteen or more accurate rounds of shotgun fire on target in less than one minute. Anyone who thinks the shotgun is not an effective and feasible method of personal protection simply has not run a shotgun properly. Period.
At the beginning of the day, I was fumbling to safely and quickly keep my shotgun fed and on target in a high stress situation. In my previous experience, I went “bang” until the animal was harvested or until I was out of shells. Then I reloaded. Those thoughts died quickly. We began with an assessment of our skills and right away, I knew I had a lot to learn. The expectation had been set without Brad or Keith having to say a word.
After the qualifier, we tested our guns at various distances with different loads of buckshot to determine patterning tendencies. We then spent the rest of the morning laying the groundwork for what was to become an intense afternoon of running those shotguns like we had never run them before. We learned about proper stance, shotgun workspace, emergency and administrative reloads, secondary sight picture, the push - pull technique for managing recoil, scan and assess, muzzle awareness and how to deliver quick, safe and accurate fire on multiple targets.
By lunch time, I was seriously down on myself. I had manipulated a shotgun for more than twenty years now and I was struggling to keep my gun fed and delivering accurate fire. I felt like I had just made it to game seven of the Stanley Cup Finals and lost.
When we got back onto the range after a much needed physical and mental break, we reviewed these fundamentals and then slowed it down a bit. We practiced shooting our guns at various distances with different slugs. This not only gave me insight to effective distances with my gun, but also lowered the stress level a bit and gave me time to remember one of the most important fundamentals: get your hits. Accuracy.
From this point on, we ran our shotguns and kept them fed through various drills at multiple distances. Once Keith and Brad felt we were getting the fundamentals hammered down, we explored shooting on the move, using cover and concealment, shooting from our weak side and safely transitioning between sides.
All this time, Brad and Keith were on top of us like a Drummond Island hound dog who just treed a bear. Safety was of the essence. After that, these guys were running us hard. I can still hear Brad standing behind me on the line reinforcing, “Shoot until you hear that click...you’d only be cheating yourself if this was a fight Ed Sims” and Keith hollering “Feed it, feed it, feed it.” They watched us and guided us as we went along.
After each drill the instructors took the time to offer constructive criticism and positive reinforcement. The criticism that was offered was immediately followed up by modeling and scaffolding from the instructor. The student was then expected to demonstrate the proper technique in a dry situation before running it hot on the line again.
Best Items I learned:
One of the best things that happened during this class was the opening of my mind to the shotgun as a realistic option for personal protection. The push pull technique in and of itself was worth the price of admission. Knowing how to keep a shotgun and side saddle fed and continuously delivering accurate fire while in a stationary position, on the move or from cover dispels and rumors discounting the shotgun in my opinion.
Critiques for the Instructors or Class Flow:
Class flow was nearly perfect. Being that there were only three students on this day gave the instructors more time to watch each student individually as well as keep an eye on the whole group. Each student had very little chance of making any mistake which carried the possibility of going uncorrected. One thing that I truly appreciated was that the class moved forward at a pace that was developmentally appropriate for our group. We were given ample time to watch and listen to the instructors, demonstrate our understanding of the technique, correct what we were doing wrong, ask questions and re-apply what was learned. There were plenty of opportunities between drills to gather ammo, hydrate, reflect and ask questions. With only three students, these guys kept it going all day long, no problem.
Gear Issues:
Ammo. I decided to be “Joe Up North Hunter Guy” and empty my gun safe of the vast array of game loads in a futile attempt to run them in this class. Big mistake trying to shoot more than twenty rounds (let alone 300+) of rapid fire twelve gauge high velocity game loads. Thankfully, Brad was prepared and patient enough to have extra ammo on hand. If you take a shotgun course use target loads for your bird shot count. Trust someone who is typing this with a bruised shoulder and who has no one to blame but himself.
Additionally, the stock on my shotgun is too long for me and I will look into rectifying this issue soon.
Summary:
Now that I know how to properly run a shotgun, I am looking forward to stocking up on ammo and hitting the range so that I can determine which one of my guns I can run most effectively. I am confident that I will be able to pass these skills on to my next generation of family members without batting an eye.
As a gun owner and a teacher myself I can personally and professionally attest to the fact that Brad and Keith honestly know their stuff and have a strong understanding of how people learn. These guys transferred enough knowledge in one day to keep me safe for a lifetime.
I am truly humbled by and eternally grateful to Brad VanValkenburg and Keith Denman for all that they have done for me. The only issue is that I may need a marriage counselor now since I anticipate spending more time with my shoguns than with my wife
----------------------------------------------
What: MDFI Shotgun 1
When: 5-27-12
Where: Spectacle Lake Outdoor Club. Albion, MI
Who: Gidaeon\Ryan
Gear: Pardner Pump 18.5" 12ga (H&R\NEF 870 import clone), Maxpedition dump pouch; Ammo: was basic big box store cheap stuff, some Italian LE 00, basic remington and winchester economy 00 and standard slugs.
What I Expected:Typical MDFI-like class construct of "big boy" rules, casual ribbing from friendly, knowledgeable instructors. Expected to hear about the importance of using\training with\knowing ones firearm and how it behaves at various distances with various ammo. Recoil management (from reading others past AAR's). Expected to find out areas where my 'setup' did not work out. Finally, a whole lot of fun. ..okay maybe I expected to go home a little sore and definitely tired!
I signed up because I once bought above shotgun just to have a shotgun frankly - but had never used it apart from a couple slugs testing function. I figured, "why own something I have no clue how to use?!?!".. I was well aware, that while I have a very long ways to go with pistol and carbine, my shotguns skills were surely an even weaker link!
What Actually Happened:
When we started off, Brad and Keith just watched us try our best (and to their credit they must have held it in while watching at least my abominable attempts at operating this mystery of a boom stick.
After attempting the initial qualifier, I was like "oh man.. what was I thinking coming here this unprepared - hope I don't slow the class down." Keith\Brad then explained push pull, did some patterning to show that all ammo\barrels\guns do not behave the same and left lasting impressions on the folly of "just buy whatever and put it away."
Drill showed us our effective range of slugs vs. buck. Rolling thunder was interesting with 3, but then a few others jumped in and it smoothed out and was a very productive and challenging exercise. Shooting at steel was nice feedback.
In short: glad I went - I'm better off for the experience. Worth the time\drive\ammo\tuition.
I learned push\pull can be done "backwards" and is thus not push\pull and will leave you feeling like an idiot for not asking to clarify initially. I learned when push\pull IS done, you are a much happier shot-gunner - when it is not you are a sad, and sore individual.
I learned staying square to target to target in fighting stance was a challenge, especially with a over-sized stock\LOP.
I have not and do not look to a shotgun for any primary HD purposes. This is due to having several small children in the home and looking to quick access safe(s) in which anything is kept loaded. I'm not going to suddenly have a loaded 12ga in my home but I with additional training, and the ability to safely store I'd have confidence in the shotgun. 5 rounds of 1oz slugs and maybe a few stand-by is something to be taken seriously.
I better understood and saw the whole "shotguns aren't seemingly as sexy, but they are deadly as deadly gets."
I learned that just because shotguns may seem "simple" to some people to operate doesn't mean they don't present a huge learning curve.
I learned you'd be a fool to buy one, load it with some random buckshot and stow it away in a closet and assume you are good to go. (I've never patterned buck before and was truly surprised how bad it was was at 7-10 yards with several of my loads!!)
I learned that I personally, would rely on slugs for any social purposes, unless I was faced with hordes of faceless enemies where I had no concern for unpredictable spread (my barrel wasn't impressive with various surplus 00 I tried - a little better with federal something)
Overall Best Items I learned:
Push\Pull (this is not natural and I certainly still struggled to implement at end of class - but I know its legit and needed!)
Also that random buck in the tube is a stupid idea.
That shotguns are not so simple you should just buy one, take it the range once and then assume you are GTG.
Critiques for the Instructors or Class Flow:
Well managed. I admit I like the small classes - with the extra attention.
Only suggestion is showing folks that are a little dense like me that actual directions with push pull since I tried backwards for the first portion of class until I asked. A picture, even a laminated one can sometimes be a supplement to verbal descriptions.
Gear Issues:
1) front sight bead flew off after 250-300 rounds (my fault I never checked or lock-tighted it)
2) standard stock is waaaaaay to long. Plan to replace with Youth - I will note for a "cheap" gun that is some impressive polymer. Toughest, & heaviest synthetic stock I've personally handled.
3) Forearm was too long, preventing from loading with ejection port towards ground. Common problem with an easy fix - I already cut back the "tail" of forearm so its not a future issue
Summary:I want to continue to use SG maybe another course in the future, but I feel like the carbine is almost easier to pick up and learn in some ways. A good hit with a slug would sure bring confidence when it counts though.. Class left me realizing the devastating capacity of a simple 5 round pump in the hands of some man that truly knows how to use it.
MDFI courses have shown me its silly to fret over the few bucks on a firearm, when the real "costs" are the time\money\ammo to learn to actually use the thing reliably. When it comes to personal protection ect., there is absolutely no room for pride. I went into this course hardly knowing the controls on my cheapo little shotgun (and it surely showed!) by the end of the course I frankly still struggled in some basic operation but had improved dramatically and was made aware of numerous areas that I didn't know I should be aware of.
Today, I have the tiniest bit of soreness (which could have been avoided with proper push\pull) but no visible bruising. I went home utterly exhausted - but for good reason.
Aside from practical instruction I've always met some great guys at class, which is also always an encouragement in its own right!