View Full Version : PredatOBR 5.56
Gents,
I was planning on building a new gun when I get back from downrange, however I think I may just purchase the PredatOBR 14.5
I plan on using it for training classes, it will be run hard.
Anyone going to talk me out of it?
Grant
I was looking at getting one of the Larue rifles for much of the same reasons. Something to run hard at classes, with some competition use thrown in.
The only thing that gave me any pause was the stainless barrel. IIRC, Larue rates it for 10,000 rounds. Depending on your training schedule, this can be pretty easy to hit. Something to note, you won't really notice a barrel's accuracy starting to degrade inside of 100 yards as easily as you would if that number was 600 yards.
For a gun used in that kind of situation, one with a chrome lined barrel, ie those from Knight's, BCM, DD et al, will offer a better barrel life.
For near the same money, a SR-15 is a very durable lightweight rifle. The accuracy penalty isn't that big either, expecially at the distances frequently shot in tactical type classes.
Still, the Larue rifles are pretty amazing and I really like what they did with the rails and upper interface.
As a general rule for the stainless vs chrome lined debate, I would ask what kind of optic you plan on putting on it and what your individual shooting skills are.
For something used a 50 yards and in with a RDS, a lightweight chrom lined barrel would probably be a better choice. If its a gun you want to shoot for groups, a variable scope is nice, and a stainless barrel makes sense.
The accuracy difference at 100 yards between the two realistically is maybe 1.5-2 moa for a chrome lined barrel to just under 1 moa for a good stainless. Keep in mind, ammunition is huge here. If all you are running is XM193 and other bulk type stuff, the Larue rifle isn't going to shoot an honest 1/2 MOA ten round group.
Just food for thought.
hotbiggun42
05-30-12, 11:47
They look outstanding. I guess the only issue is availability. Is it true they are a year out?
That was the biggest thing that threw the brakes on the Larue for me. It looks to be an amazing rifle, but they aren't as readily available as other options.
I was looking at getting one of the Larue rifles for much of the same reasons. Something to run hard at classes, with some competition use thrown in.
The only thing that gave me any pause was the stainless barrel. IIRC, Larue rates it for 10,000 rounds. Depending on your training schedule, this can be pretty easy to hit. Something to note, you won't really notice a barrel's accuracy starting to degrade inside of 100 yards as easily as you would if that number was 600 yards.
For a gun used in that kind of situation, one with a chrome lined barrel, ie those from Knight's, BCM, DD et al, will offer a better barrel life.
For near the same money, a SR-15 is a very durable lightweight rifle. The accuracy penalty isn't that big either, expecially at the distances frequently shot in tactical type classes.
Still, the Larue rifles are pretty amazing and I really like what they did with the rails and upper interface.
As a general rule for the stainless vs chrome lined debate, I would ask what kind of optic you plan on putting on it and what your individual shooting skills are.
For something used a 50 yards and in with a RDS, a lightweight chrom lined barrel would probably be a better choice. If its a gun you want to shoot for groups, a variable scope is nice, and a stainless barrel makes sense.
The accuracy difference at 100 yards between the two realistically is maybe 1.5-2 moa for a chrome lined barrel to just under 1 moa for a good stainless. Keep in mind, ammunition is huge here. If all you are running is XM193 and other bulk type stuff, the Larue rifle isn't going to shoot an honest 1/2 MOA ten round group.
Just food for thought.
Thanks for the reply. I'm thinking you are probably right about chrome/stainless barrell issue for me. This is why I love this site, good conversation for like minded individuals....I've been running my S&W MP15 for since 09, and although it had been reliable, I wouldn't call it accurate. I'll just keep it for a HD/back up
I am going to put a T-1/LT660 combo on whatever rifle I build/buy. I will be running XM193 most of the time( No Wolf,etc). I am a modestly skilled shooter..I've shot some matches mostly 2/3 Gun and IDPA.
I really like the DDM4 V5 a lot, but I hate the new marking on the upper for 2012. I don't know if that is a good reason not to buy it, but I'm afraid it would drive me nuts.
I will probably just build a BCM 14.5 gun w/ the Larue 12' rail and call it a day.
BLUF: I know the Larue is not exactly what I need for training, but who wouldn't want one?
Grant
I hear ya on the markings. I hate how guns are starting to look like NASCAR.
One point I wanted to touch on was ammunition. If you're paying for match type loads, I'd want to feed them into a stainless barrel to get the most out of them. Any gun is going to be more accurate with good ammo. With the current state of things, I would say accuracy goes shooter, ammo, rifle. Most rifles on the market are very capable. Ammunition is what is getting hard to find/buy. Shooting skills, you can't buy. You have to put the work and thought into it.
I shot a 2.2 MOA 10 round group at 100 yards out of my SR-15 with nothing more than 5.56mm XM193 and an Aimpoint T-1, resting on one of the Hornady triangle rests and a rear bag. Running 5.56mm 55gr Gold Dots it shrank to 2 MOA.
Not bad for a 6.5lb gun with a 30,000 round barrel life.
Out of my Noveske barreled rifle I got a 5 round group at 100 yards at just a tick over .5 MOA with a 1-4x Short Dot and .223 Hornady 55gr VMAX. That rifle was 12lbs with the bi-pod and optic.
I want an OBR still, but I want one in .308 to put good glass on and do some serious long range stuff.
11K for 7.62, 15K for 5.56 out of the PredatOBR barrels. Just a data point. It's not so bad. I have heard of them being capable of much more but I can't pull a source on that claim.
They look outstanding. I guess the only issue is availability. Is it true they are a year out?
I got a email from LT and the PredatAR's are 14-16 weeks out and no delivery date set for PreadatOBR's.
Grant
11K for 7.62, 15K for 5.56 out of the PredatOBR barrels. Just a data point. It's not so bad. I have heard of them being capable of much more but I can't pull a source on that claim.
Where did those numbers come from? Larue's site lists 10k for the PredatOBR.
As a conversation point, firing tempo is important than looking at a pure round count as it relates to barrel life. If you're doing peel drills and dumping mag after mag through the barrel its going to be effected more.
I got a email from LT and the PredatAR's are 14-16 weeks out and no delivery date set for PreadatOBR's.
Same thing I was told in Febuary.
Where did those numbers come from?
Chris Costa
Is this in print or a passing quote?
I doubt you can gauge the life of a barrel on a 50 yard, or even 100 yard range. You won't notice its not grouping unitl its REALLY not grouping.
In his Adaptive Carbine video Travis claims his M4 look a like has 30,000 rounds on it and still holds inside 1 MOA. I'd love to know at what distance a barrel with 30k rounds shoots under 1 MOA.
Print. https://www.m4carbine.net/images/icons/icon14.gif
Also, I agree. I'll try and get my hands on one soon. No idea how soon, though.
Also, I agree. I'll try and get my hands on one soon. No idea how soon, though.
Awesome! Let us know what you think when you get it/get some rounds down range. They look like excellent rifles for a decent price...
My bad, that was in response to bp7178. I'm talking about a carbine with tens of thousands through it. The AR can handle a lot and the groupings out of one that's seen lots of use would be a fun observation. As for the PredatOBR, I do want one.
I was on #7 on a list for a 556 at my local FFL shortly after shot. I switched to the 762 and bought a Noveske NSR CHF 14.5 with a pinned surefire FH556 which is 4 weeks out.
My bad, that was in response to bp7178. I'm talking about a carbine with tens of thousands through it. The AR can handle a lot and the groupings out of one that's seen lots of use would be a fun observation. As for the PredatOBR, I do want one.
I might go with a PredatAR instead, save the $500 and start putting together a BCM gun.
Plus I shold be back in country around the same time the PredatAR will be available. I read some reviews on it from here and they seemed quite favorable...Are Larue guns MPI'ed?
Grant
Today, I'm 5 weeks into my 14-16 week wait for a PredatAR.... Its killing me! :shout:
So I guess I can expect a really long wait then for the rifle
I might go with a PredatAR instead, save the $500 and start putting together a BCM gun.
Plus I shold be back in country around the same time the PredatAR will be available. I read some reviews on it from here and they seemed quite favorable...Are Larue guns MPI'ed?
Grant
It's a great gun. That $500 can go towards an optic, too.
From what I've read Larue does utilize MPI testing.
I'd love to know at what distance a barrel with 30k rounds shoots under 1 MOA.
1 MOA is 1 MOA at 50 yards or 300 yards.
Failure2Stop
06-02-12, 08:25
1 MOA is 1 MOA at 50 yards or 300 yards.
Not disagreeing with you, as the math is true, but just because a gun/ammo combo will provide 1 MOA at a given distance does not mean that it will provide the same precision (as expressed by MOA) at longer distances.
1 MOA at 100 is all lot more common than 1 MOA at 500, even with environmental factors removed.
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Well...I broke down and went ahead and pre-ordered the PredatOBR 5.56 14.5", with the mil discount is was too much to resist.
I'm downrange for another 3-4 months so the waiting won't be quite as bad. :D
You guys are great thanks for the discussion, I will probably have another gun built before I see the POBR anyway.
Grant
Not disagreeing with you, as the math is true, but just because a gun/ammo combo will provide 1 MOA at a given distance does not mean that it will provide the same precision (as expressed by MOA) at longer distances.
1 MOA at 100 is all lot more common than 1 MOA at 500, even with environmental factors removed.
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Exactly. I'm not trying to refute Travis' experience, but I wish he would have qualified that statement a bit more. I just see people hearing that, shooting a rat hole at 25 yards, then thinking they have a sub-moa rifle with 30,000 rounds on it with a chrome lined barrel and a 5.56 chamber. You can watch that video and see where it skips around from where they edited stuff out. You don't know what happened/what was said during the edit.
Well...I broke down and went ahead and pre-ordered the PredatOBR 5.56 14.5", with the mil discount is was too much to resist.
I'm downrange for another 3-4 months so the waiting won't be quite as bad.
You guys are great thanks for the discussion, I will probably have another gun built before I see the POBR anyway.
Good deal. The PredatOBR looks like an amazing rifle. If I could buy one now I would. ;)
Stay safe and happy shooting.
1 MOA is 1 MOA at 50 yards or 300 yards.
When someone is talking about 1 MOA though they are generally talking about 100 yards/meters.
Larry Vickers
06-22-12, 06:28
One thing on DD upper markings- they are for safety reasons; we now have a round ( 300 Blackout) in the mix that has alot of cross compatibility with 5.56 in terms of magazines, etc. - ( which is one of its selling points) - the problem is if ammo gets mixed in the wrong gun bad things can happen- the markings are just a precaution to help keep things straight for the shooter since the guns look identical otherwise
As far as round counts for accuracy and whatnot I will give you two pieces of advice;
1) many variables affect barrel life such as ammo, rate of fire, and cleaning routine- it is difficult to give someone a hard number to go by for barrel life not knowing how they are going to shoot and maintain the rifle
2) take barrel life round count figures from shooters with a HUGE grain of salt; very few shooters keep an accurate round count and human nature is to exaggerate the amount of rounds put down range thru a given weapon; like my buddy Hackathorn says when people start talking round counts drop a zero and you will be a lot closer to the actual number involved- a bit tongue in cheek to be sure but you get the point ; don't put alot of faith in the ' I've shot 15 pallets of 5.56mm thru my carbine and it still shoots sub MOA ' - when I hear that line from anyone I just hit the mute button; the round count as well as the accuracy claim are bogus
My .02 cents- I had to jump in here and add some reality to the conversation
LAV
Failure2Stop
06-22-12, 09:53
When someone is talking about 1 MOA though they are generally talking about 100 yards/meters.
That may be true for you, but not for any other shooting community I am aware of. People seriously discussing the topic will link a range to the angular deviation of a group.
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