View Full Version : The Bastard has been born.....
I saw this on the front cover of a gun magazine........ The AR and The AK had a one night balling session.
http://www.rockriverarms.com/popup.cfm?type=i&id=products/pular47v.gif
Face palm worthy?
Seriously..? Come on..:suicide:
Seriously..? Come on..:suicide:
I know right! I got the magazine down at my local bass pro and was just like WTF! $1500 for a BM-AK/M4-thingy...seriously WTF! Leave M4's M4's and AK's AK's. If you need more knock down, there are so many good M4 calibers that perform equally or better to the 7,62x39. I just don't get it. I just don't understand why anybody would want this...$1500 will buy a very nice AK such as Arsenal...or a very nice DDM4
WHY WHY WHY
GeorgiaBoy
05-30-12, 21:40
That would go great with a slide fire stock, and would sit in the safe right next to my Mossberg 500 Chainsaw.
KAC had something like this a few years back, but it looks like it never went anywhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR-47
I wonder if it is more accurate than the "run of the mill" AK ? It seems to me that accuracy is one of the AKs weak points, if this is "twice" as accurate, I'd be tempted. Has anyone ever fired one of the MGI "Interchangeable Magazine AR " ? http://www.mgi-military.com/index.php?id=27&sub_id=22 Not cheap... but AK 47 , AK 74, 10mm, .45 , .9mm, and AR out of one AR lower sounds interesting.
If you already have a gang box full of 7.62x39 and mags to match, the concept seems ok. The price and the vendor might not.
PA PATRIOT
05-30-12, 22:10
Base model is just under $1100.00 shipped,
http://www.wisewildlifesolutions.com/rock-river/rra-lar-47.html
http://www.wisewildlifesolutions.com/_Media/lar47_1263v.gif
I would say once the early demand cools off that the base model will settle down to a $900.00 or less price tag.
Let's see what reviewers discover when they actually shoot it.
Mag release inside the trigger guard? Rails on the stock's bottom slope? :confused:
polymorpheous
05-30-12, 22:41
I wonder if it is more accurate than the "run of the mill" AK ? It seems to me that accuracy is one of the AKs weak points, if this is "twice" as accurate, I'd be tempted. Has anyone ever fired one of the MGI "Interchangeable Magazine AR " ? http://www.mgi-military.com/index.php?id=27&sub_id=22 Not cheap... but AK 47 , AK 74, 10mm, .45 , .9mm, and AR out of one AR lower sounds interesting.
AK's are plenty accurate.
People don't know how to zero them.
I hit 2/3 IPSC steel at 300 yards with irons easily.
I'm not really that great of a shot.
AK's are plenty accurate.
People don't know how to zero them.
I hit 2/3 IPSC steel at 300 yards with irons easily.
I'm not really that great of a shot.
Amen...my AK shoots very nice, as accurate as my AR to 150yrds....and lets be honest..you are not going to use ANY rifle sub 100yrds to defend yourself...heck sub 50 yards in reality
What really gives AK's a bad name is the cheapo chinese and romanian crap
polymorpheous
05-30-12, 22:59
Amen...my AK shoots very nice, as accurate as my AR to 150yrds....and lets be honest..you are not going to use ANY rifle sub 100yrds to defend yourself...heck sub 50 yards in reality
What really gives AK's a bad name is the cheapo chinese and romanian crap
Chinese AK's are some of the better ones out there.
Perhaps you mean some of the stuff put out by Century.
Mag release inside the trigger guard? Rails on the stock's bottom slope? :confused:
Some more of rra's "waaay better than milspec" engineering. I wonder if nutnfancy was involved with the design. :D
It looks pretty cool to me. Kinda expensive but that might be a sterotype ideal. It'd be a good hog gun.
The SR-47 made sense in a lot of ways. If you look at the development and what was accomplished with that design it's very interesting. Aside from the ability to take AK mags and shoot 7.62x39, there's very little similarity between the SR-47 and this.
I would give a left testicle to have an SR-47. I would not take the RRA if you paid me anything less than 5 figures with the decimal all the way to the right.
Umm...wasn't April 1st about 2 months ago? :rolleyes:
Jester67CA
05-30-12, 23:56
Double tap
Jester67CA
05-30-12, 23:56
Is this DI or Piston?
I'm paying $1100 for a gun made by one of the least desireable AR15 manufacturers. Besides put the magazine release in a funky place, what does this do that a $1100 AK does not?
When there's the Midwest Industries rails, mounts, grips, and AR stock adapters on the market, I don't see any real advantages to this gun at this price.
Is this DI or Piston?
I'm paying $1100 for a gun made by one of the least desireable AR15 manufacturers. Besides put the magazine release in a funky place, what does this do that a $1100 AK does not?
When there's the Midwest Industries rails, mounts, grips, and AR stock adapters on the market, I don't see any real advantages to this gun at this price.
Exactly my thoughts. And theres also the thought that if KAC couldnt make anything of their model, the fact that rra is behind this one does not give me much confidence.
Exactly my thoughts. And theres also the thought that if KAC couldnt make anything of their model, the fact that rra is behind this one does not give me much confidence.
I believe KAC never brought the SR47 to market for the same reason that, that confounded .50 calibre of theirs is still in purgatory; they don't have the time, manpower, or machinery to add yet another civilian line when they are already so heavily inundated with government contract work. Additionally I have heard that while the weapons that were tested overseas worked well, their reliability was questionable when paired with recovered magazines and ammunition (Though considering that these are the same mags and rounds that have been known to choke AKs, it shouldn't be surprising).
Mag release inside the trigger guard? Rails on the stock's bottom slope? :confused:
No kidding... "Sorry Mr. Rangemaster, I did not mean to shoot through your roof- I was trying to change mags."
Love the tacticool stock too. :eek:
Not very smart (release/trigger placement) but I am very intrigued as to whether or not they have had success in getting it to run.
I also wonder why they didn't design a midlength type system which I would think would be better.
Mag release inside the trigger guard? Rails
on the stock's bottom slope? :confused:
The interesting thing about that mag release for me is it makes me wonder if they fixed the issue of the AK magazines not dropping free from the SR47 series and instead having to be knocked free (They would drop free on specially modified magazines with a special tab added, but not on standard non-modified magazines). Also they probably didn't design a midlength system for it simply because carbine length systems still remain the best selling AR15 gas system length and most people who buy these rifles won't shoot them enough to notice any possible difference in bolt life (amongst other performance issues). My big worry is that this is going to suffer from chamber issues and be just as overgassed as their .223 calibre rifles.
Not very smart (release/trigger placement) but I am very intrigued as to whether or not they have had success in getting it to run.
I also wonder why they didn't design a midlength type system which I would think would be better.
I also wonder why they didn't design a midlength type system which I would think would be better.
Perhaps RRA thinks the typical buyer will feed it underpowered ammo? :confused:
It's likely RRA used the carbine length system for the 7.62x39 for the same reason AAC uses the carbine length system for the 300 BLK- the cartridge doesn't generate enough gas volume in a 30 caliber bore to reliably operate a middy
While I have no love for RRA, people have been asking for a lower receiver like this for a while.
People complain about AK ergo's, this seems to fix most of that.
When KAC pictures got out, people thought it was cool. When RRA does its dumb? I get RRA makes turds and KAC makes gold, but still...we are talking about the concept, not the quality.
With all that said, I would never purchase one. I do think its neat though.
When KAC pictures got out, people thought it was cool. When RRA does its dumb? I get RRA makes turds and KAC makes gold, but still...we are talking about the concept, not the quality.
This concept is smart:
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn176/Dr_Wolfenstein/ARs/RK.jpg
Image courtesy of GunWiki
This concept is not:
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn176/Dr_Wolfenstein/ARs/pular47v.jpg
Image courtesy of RRA.
While I have no love for RRA, people have been asking for a lower receiver like this for a while.
People complain about AK ergo's, this seems to fix most of that.
When KAC pictures got out, people thought it was cool. When RRA does its dumb? I get RRA makes turds and KAC makes gold, but still...we are talking about the concept, not the quality.
With all that said, I would never purchase one. I do think its neat though.
KAC attempted to retain almost all of the AR15 manual of arms for the SR47 including the magazine release; the only difference between the SR47 and M4 manual of arms is that you had to rock the magazines in (And that the nonmodified AK magazines would not fall free). This has a different style magazine release, a release that has made most of us nervous with its placement. The only reason I can think of them placing it there is it is a design decision centered on emulating the AK series mag release (and failing).
Also, I think you should consider that at the time that information on the SR47 first started reaching the general public, the only intermediate calibre with any reasonably large adoption was the 7.62x39. Now we have the 6.8 remington and the .300 Blackout, both of which have much more modern bullet designs and shallower case tapers (allowing for reliable use in magazines with shallower curves) thus making an AR15 in 7.62x39 make as much less sense.
Finally, the SR47 was used by SOCOM and in a way us wanting to have it is like most of us wanting to be SEALs, Special Forces, Rangers, Recon, etc. Even though 90%-95% of us here would probably have no chance of making it into any of those units the idea of owning a weapon that SOCOM used just appeals to us. Secondly I feel that in a way its popularity lies in the fact that KAC executed the idea of an AR15 that can use AK magazines very, very well which is something I can think we can all appreciate.
jonconsiglio
05-31-12, 12:13
The KAC SR-47 looked interesting. Not knowing anything about it, there has to be some valid reason it's not in production. My thought is it's unlikely that RRA made a better model than Knight's Armament, so I'm curious what problems may come.
But, it does have "Delta" in the model name, so it must be a serious fighting rifle. Maybe if one Special Agent buys one for his personal collection, RRA will start marketing that they're issued to Federal Agencies and we'll have the "FBI" model or maybe even the "DoD".
RRA needs to stick to NM rifles and stop this nonsense.
I can't say I'd want this RRA creation, but I'd like an M4/AK mutt chambered for 5.45 that uses actual '74 mags (if it otherwise was a 'good' design).
Some of you old ladies worry too much about the mag release location. It's no worse than the safety of the Garand/M14 or B.A.D. lever.
Manual of arms will be different. The manual of arms is different with an ambi safety or aforementioned B.A.D. lever
Maybe it'll be awkward, maybe it'll be fine but nobody knows for certain until the weapon is actually fired.
I'd be more concerned whether or not RRA got the bolt right. The bolt face needs to be opened up for the 7.62x39 which weakens it a bit. This is speculation and like the mag release, we won't know if it's a problem, even with RRA's track record, until shots are fired. GO SHOOT THE RIFLE BEFORE MAKING CHANGES
DGI 7.62x39 for battlefield recovery = fail
Sweet concept, difficult execution.
There is MASSIVE variation in x39 ammunition from different countries, makers, lots.. Burnrates, pressures, how dirty the powder burns, etc. There is a reason the AK is over-gassed.
oh man that sr47 is purty. I would've bought one of those if it had a piston system.
DesertDweller
05-31-12, 14:42
That is a bit to much
Some of you old ladies worry too much about the mag release location. It's no worse than the safety of the Garand/M14 or B.A.D. lever.
GO SHOOT THE RIFLE BEFORE MAKING CHANGES
After looking into this a bit further, this old lady will have to concede that you may be correct. :) The mag release extends to the side of the trigger guard and can be activated with one's thumb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Zf5CVjShw
SR-47 was made in some like 8 or 9 pcs. Those were made for very specific needs of very specific customer operating in target reach area, with lack of immediate resupply and lot of battle pick-up AK magazines (cleaning up caverns in mountains of A-stan). SR-47 used spring loaded magazine dump assistance, to provide drop free magazine. It was specialty weapon made for niche requirements. It was never been intended for open sales or mass production.
Do not laugh on me too much - I learned a lot about SR-47 after I saw it in Cat Shit One anime ;)
SR-47 was made in some like 8 or 9 pcs. Those were made for very specific needs of very specific customer operating in target reach area, with lack of immediate resupply and lot of battle pick-up AK magazines (cleaning up caverns in mountains of A-stan). SR-47 used spring loaded magazine dump assistance, to provide drop free magazine. It was specialty weapon made for niche requirements. It was never been intended for open sales or mass production.
Do not laugh on me too much - I learned a lot about SR-47 after I saw it in Cat Shit One anime ;)
I loved that anime when I saw it during their free preview event on youtube. I about choked from laughing when he chastised him for all the crap he had sitting on top of his M14. Also, brought a smile to my face to see the SR47 in there as I really wasn't expecting it.
Also, I think it should be mentioned that only 7 of the SR47s were ever produced, with six going to SOCOM and one being retained by KAC for their museum. Also, I believe the development cycle for the SR47 was in the months from conception to production so the fact that KAC got them into the field as quickly as they did is a testament to their manufacturing and design capabilities.
Some of you old ladies worry too much about the mag release location. It's no worse than the safety of the Garand/M14 or B.A.D. lever.
Manual of arms will be different. The manual of arms is different with an ambi safety or aforementioned B.A.D. lever
Maybe it'll be awkward, maybe it'll be fine but nobody knows for certain until the weapon is actually fired.
I'd be more concerned whether or not RRA got the bolt right. The bolt face needs to be opened up for the 7.62x39 which weakens it a bit. This is speculation and like the mag release, we won't know if it's a problem, even with RRA's track record, until shots are fired. GO SHOOT THE RIFLE BEFORE MAKING CHANGES
My big fear with the magazine release being inside of the trigger guard is that someone during a "tactical" reload is going to be fumbling around trying to get the release and wind up pushing back on the trigger putting a round through the roof. The manual of arms for this appears to much more closely resemble an AK then an M14, but it takes the worst of both by having the release be inside of the trigger guard (AK is outside of the trigger guard) and having you actuate it with the thumb (Though looking at the video I presume you could also possibly use your trigger finger). In any case we'll see just as you said. As an aside I am not too fond of the BAD lever either.
If I remember correctly, the SR47 was made for the "cave gun" concept and several were sent to Crane for some bid/test. I think that Robinson Arms was trying to make a version of their guns they produced at the time that would do the same thing.
The concept was re-supply from where ever you could find ammo instead of having to bring it with you.
I think there might have been some issue with the bid, the concept, etc. and since Crane dumped it, the SR47 was sidlined by KAC as well.
That is all IF I remember correctly.
Excellent point. I have shot hundreds of different rounds from different countries and one can see the difference for sure between the various types of ammo on the market.
DGI 7.62x39 for battlefield recovery = fail
Sweet concept, difficult execution.
There is MASSIVE variation in x39 ammunition from different countries, makers, lots.. Burnrates, pressures, how dirty the powder burns, etc. There is a reason the AK is over-gassed.
Moose-Knuckle
05-31-12, 17:49
DGI 7.62x39 for battlefield recovery = fail
There is MASSIVE variation in x39 ammunition from different countries, makers, lots.. Burnrates, pressures, how dirty the powder burns, etc. There is a reason the AK is over-gassed.
This was the first red flag that went off in my head.
Range toy.
I think it's good to see companies taking a stab at something different rather than keep churning out the same old thing day after day. While KAC tried this concept years ago, it never made it to the commercial market and the rifle is impossible to get nowadays...at least the RRA is able to be bought. I have my doubts if it'll be a big seller due mainly to the huge amount of AK's already in the country. If this was just a upper/BCG swap...I'd be getting one. But the design of the AK magazine will make that impossible without the lower as well. Kudos to RRA for taking a chance , the market will determine if it is worth the money involved.
Haven't you heard? This gun is going to make the .300 blackout obsolete.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=659935
gunfighter48
06-01-12, 00:55
The latest issue of the "Book OF The AR-15" magazine has a very good article on the RR 7.62X39. The article references previous attempts to get an AR 7.39 to work correctly. It says that RR got it right and it works very well and reliably. Check it out at your local news stand.
CaptainDooley
06-01-12, 08:51
I wonder how many full page ads RRA bought to get that piece written…
The latest issue of the "Book OF The AR-15" magazine has a very good article on the RR 7.62X39. The article references previous attempts to get an AR 7.39 to work correctly. It says that RR got it right and it works very well and reliably. Check it out at your local news stand.
I wouldnt mind shooting one, but I think id rather have an arsenal, at least id know what I have.
I wonder how many full page ads RRA bought to get that piece written…
I bet theres alot more truth behind this than we realize. If I ever started a firearm company I would try to steal whoever rra has for marketing, while I do not care for their products, they have an excellent advertising campaign that works. Almost daily I hear people asking about rra guns at the lgs I work part time for. Fortunately for most I can convince them to go with Colt.
I'm interested as heck in this. Not that I'd really want to buy one, but like another poster said, it's nice to see something unique on the market. I'm looking forward to seeing some good thorough reviews on this.
SWATcop556
06-01-12, 11:02
Looks like putting rails on every square inch of a rifle is the "new" velcro on every inch of a PC or jacket.
Seriously what the hell would you mount on that stock. Ghey.
I'll stick with a traditional AK. It's a different manual of arms but they can be trained.
The KAC offering looked to have much more promise but if it didn't make it to production, there is a reason.
hotbiggun42
06-01-12, 11:07
This rifle uses AK mags? I kind of like it and 762x39 is cheap and pleantiful at least for now.
That would go great with a slide fire stock, and would sit in the safe right next to my Mossberg 500 Chainsaw.
:lol::lol::lol:
I seen this ABORTION last week. ****ing Ridiculous.
Well well, isnt RRA quite the "Innovators", seems like AR owners that are torn between two platforms can actually fall asleep at night now.
hotbiggun42
06-01-12, 12:00
:lol::lol::lol:
I seen this ABORTION last week. ****ing Ridiculous.
Well well, isnt RRA quite the "Innovators", seems like AR owners that are torn between two platforms can actually fall asleep at night now.
The fact that RRA makes this rifle is the only thing keeping me from seriously considering it.
AZ-Renegade
06-01-12, 12:34
Looks like putting rails on every square inch of a rifle is the "new" velcro on every inch of a PC or jacket.
Seriously what the hell would you mount on that stock. Ghey.
Why, that's where you would mount your TOPS WOLFHAWK TP
of course.
http://www.topsknives.com/product_info.php?products_id=389&osCsid=o6ltd5baq4jqc41ipa4bel6cr6
It's funny to hear everyone trashing the hell out of this thing, but has anyone who is bashing this gun ever actually handled it or shot it?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the thing at all and I'd personally rather have an AK, but it seems like there is a lot of hot air, but no real first hand experience. I'd be more curious to hear from anyone who actually has experience with the thing.
I would never recommend an RRA AR to anyone because there are so many better options, but since there aren't many options in this type of platform, maybe they did a decent job with it?
I guess all i'm saying is, I'd be curious to see how the rifle actualy functions and holds up during a 2,000+ round torture test before everyone just concludes it's complete shit. :happy:
It's funny to hear everyone trashing the hell out of this thing, but has anyone who is bashing this gun ever actually handled it or shot it?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the thing at all and I'd personally rather have an AK, but it seems like there is a lot of hot air, but no real first hand experience. I'd be more curious to hear from anyone who actually has experience with the thing.
I would never recommend an RRA AR to anyone because there are so many better options, but since there aren't many options in this type of platform, maybe they did a decent job with it?
I guess all i'm saying is, I'd be curious to see how the rifle actualy functions and holds up during a 2,000+ round torture test before everyone just concludes it's complete shit. :happy:
Yes, I have shot my AK many times and my AR many times. I have even goofed around and shot one with the left arm/ hand and one with the right arm/ hand at the same time. Sorry, couldn't resist...:laugh:
For me, I will stick with the separate platforms as they each function very well without being combined. FWIW, I bought the mag "the Book of the AR15" so you could say I have already lost money on one of these things :sarcastic:
From purely an engineering standpoint, I think it's pretty cool. However, like others have said, what does it do that an AK can't? In order to accept the AK mags, the mag release needs to be and function the way it does. Personally, I think I'd rather have a 9mm AR that will accept MP5 mags.
BTW, for the $1100, I could buy a Colt 6920...at Walmart.
:rolleyes: Still can't get over the fact that my local Walmart ACTUALLY has a gun I want and would consider buying from them.
From purely an engineering standpoint, I think it's pretty cool. However, like others have said, what does it do that an AK can't? In order to accept the AK mags, the mag release needs to be and function the way it does. Personally, I think I'd rather have a 9mm AR that will accept MP5 mags.
BTW, for the $1100, I could buy a Colt 6920...at Walmart.
:rolleyes: Still can't get over the fact that my local Walmart ACTUALLY has a gun I want and would consider buying from them.
i can't believe your guys walmarts actually carry guns...
PA PATRIOT
06-01-12, 17:33
My local FFL we be ordering three of these guns in the next week or so and one of them will be his own personal rifle which I will be able to shoot. I'll be loading up ten different AK magazines with assorted brands of 7.62x39 to see if any certain brand fails to function properly.
I'll post back when and if this range time occurs.
Moose-Knuckle
06-01-12, 19:15
i can't believe your guys walmarts actually carry guns...
Back in the day ALL Wal-Mart stores sold guns as did K-Mart, Sears, Ace Hardware, etc.
mallowpufft
06-01-12, 19:24
Back in the day ALL Wal-Mart stores sold guns as did K-Mart, Sears, Ace Hardware, etc.
I buy ammo at the local IGA and a certain gas station from time to time :). I miss the days when guns weren't scary things and easy to find pretty much anywhere.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I847 using Tapatalk 2
Back in the day ALL Wal-Mart stores sold guns as did K-Mart, Sears, Ace Hardware, etc.
I'm not sure how back you're referring to, however i'm wondering if we even had a walmart back then. Our walmarts have never carried guns or ammo or ANYTHING firearms related.
I take that back. I've seen a 50 pack of Hoppes cleaning patches before. Just about the only firearms related item in the entire store.
My local FFL we be ordering three of these guns in the next week or so and one of them will be his own personal rifle which I will be able to shoot. I'll be loading up ten different AK magazines with assorted brands of 7.62x39 to see if any certain brand fails to function properly.
I'll post back when and if this range time occurs.
Yes, please do, I am interested in finding out what happens.
MGI-millitary has been making lowers that use AK magazines for a long time now.
Wasn't the pre-shrubmaster ACR supposed to have this as an innate capability? With the option of opening the gas regulator WAAAAAY up to accomodate even crap ammo and still cycle, while retaining ambi controls (albeit same AK style paddle release instead of the pure sex KAC SR47 one).
The SR47 is so sexy, I imported the last one in airsoft form to the US just to have. I really regret selling that thing.
I wouldn't mind owning an ar in 7.62 x 39. I don't really like how the mag release is the the trigger guard on this rifle.
doubleajaybrock
06-04-12, 15:26
looks like a turd! If you want an AK, buy an AK.
Find ManBearPig!
06-05-12, 00:38
If you want an AK, buy an AK.
I can't get that thought out of my head. I get the purpose behind the SR-47, but it was certainly a specialty weapons from conception.
If you want a semi-auto rifle chambered in 7.62 x 39 that accepts AK mags, there is all ready a very proven design that does just that, is much cheaper, more reliable, and if you feel like it, you can even trick it out with all the tacticool stuff that you probably don't need thanks to aftermarket rails and such.
This kind of looks like a "because we can" type of deal, or something to appeal to mall ninja's who want to do "battlefield pickups" but need the "tacticalness of the AR platform".
As people on this site often say about piston AR's, I think this is another example of a solution looking for a problem. But, if RRA can make money off of them, well, Capitalism works. People will buy what they want, not what they need.
lets be honest..you are not going to use ANY rifle sub 100yrds to defend yourself...heck sub 50 yards in reality
You meant outside 50/100 yards right? Because if I'm burglarized, I'm not opting for a handgun because I'm at "close range" or some $h!t :no:
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