View Full Version : SAVAGE CANCELS 300 BLK PRODUCTION
Savage cancels production due to piss poor accuracy :haha:
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/05/savage-cancels-300-aac-blackout-carbine-project/
If memory serves, that had something to do with their selection of a piss poor twist rate. 1/10 or something...
Is there any other company who will be offering a 300blk in a bolt gun?
Is there any other company who will be offering a 300blk in a bolt gun?
There are 3 or 4 currently available already.
Remington 700
Micro (or is it Macro) 7
Thompson makes one
For some reason I think another manufacture was making one but I can't remember the name now.
Boxerglocker
06-01-12, 15:43
If memory serves, that had something to do with their selection of a piss poor twist rate. 1/10 or something...
I was gonna say the same....
The Remington 700 is a 1-7
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/remington-700-in-300-blackout/
Eurodriver
06-01-12, 16:05
Savage announced this rifle in 1/10 twist and with a 20 inch barrel. Factory subsonic ammunition is only designed to be subsonic in barrels up to 16 inches, so one would expect the rounds to go transonic in a 20 inch barrel – reducing accuracy. Further, the Sierra 220 grain bullets require 1/8 or faster twist to be stable enough at subsonic speeds. 1/10 twist would not likely work – so it is no surprise that they had disappointing results. Really if they were not going to do enough R&D they could have asked for development help from AAC.
-RSilvers
I am classic late adopter for new technology. And I have not even been able to see the value in this load. It has been a huge success, one of these days, but not today.
I am classic late adopter for new technology. And I have not even been able to see the value in this load. It has been a huge success, one of these days, but not today.
Two words, Expanding Sub-sonic.
When someone gets that one figured out for a less than astronomical cost, there's your value. I've got to admit, it's fun to shoot a suppressed shorty AR that's not still loud as hell...
Two words, Expanding Sub-sonic.
When someone gets that one figured out for a less than astronomical cost, there's your value. I've got to admit, it's fun to shoot a suppressed shorty AR that's not still loud as hell...
Yup... But I decided to do THIS:
12405
Sbr, supressed 9mm, glock mags.
Cheaper to shoot and QUIET!
Find ManBearPig!
06-02-12, 18:56
Yup... But I decided to do THIS:
12405
Sbr, supressed 9mm, glock mags.
Cheaper to shoot and QUIET!
I have doubts about 9mm for use in a rifle for self defense or hunting. .300 Blackout might cost more, but it is a full size rifle round, and you can hunt critters with it and defend your life, liberty, and property with it, and feel much more confident then you would with a pistol caliber rifle. I'd much rather pay more for the .300 Blackout simply because I am, in a literal sense, getting more cartridge for my money.
Now if you don't plan on using the gun for one of those two above mentioned uses, then I'm sure it will do the job just fine. I'm sure it's also fun as hell to shoot. It's just my humble opinion that 9mm and .300 Blackout are not really comparable, and the latter should be preferred for "serious" usage.
Regarding this thread, I'm pretty surprised that a company that is known for accuracy would be unable to get a modern, special purpose designed cartridge to be accurate. It looks like they just didn't end making the correct barrel in terms of both twist and length.... That really can not be too hard to rectify, can it?
I like the idea that it would be easy to make a very compact bolt action in .300 Blackout, seeing as how it shouldn't be very difficult to convert a standard .223 bolt rifle into one. I think a ultra compact and light 16 inch barreled model with a threaded barrel and a lower price point then what the AAC offering is at would probably sell well with people who hunt in more up close settings, and would also make an excellent "every mans rifle". The AAC offering has a premium grade barrel (I think) and an adjustable cheekpiece. I don't think a light, handy short range rifle built for your average Joe needs features like that, and I bet some cost can be eliminated right there.
I am classic late adopter for new technology. And I have not even been able to see the value in this load. It has been a huge success, one of these days, but not today.
Unsuppressed, it's just about the perfect whitetail cartridge for anything short of trophy bucks in the far north. In a 6-pound carbine like the M-7, you could still-hunt all day long with it and not get tired. If you're really sneaky, it might work for antelope. It's probably a bit light for bear or elk, but it would do under ideal conditions, especially with a Barnes TSX.
But it would really shine in pig country. Normally you hunt pigs at dusk because that's when they come out. They destroy habitat for other game, so the idea is to whack as many as you can at once. When you fire one unsuppressed shot, the whole herd splits in about a thousand different directions. Suppressed, you can kill several before the rest of them catch on, especially if you focus on the edges of the herd.
It's unfortunate that Savage decided to stick with the classic .30-caliber twist instead of waking up and getting this one right.
The AAC Micro 7 is interesting. The cheekpiece seems like an afterthought until you think about shooting it suppressed vs. unsuppressed. You'll need tall rings to see over the can, so you'll need to hoist the cheekpiece up to keep a good stock weld. Or you could lower the cheekpiece and use it with standard-height rings.
Okie John
Yup... But I decided to do THIS:
12405
Sbr, supressed 9mm, glock mags.
Cheaper to shoot and QUIET!
Very cool! If my memory serves me the MP5 did OK for CQB a time to two. I would love a semi MP5.
I have doubts about 9mm for use in a rifle for self defense
really?
I wouldn't go bear hunting with it, but for a close-quarter, self-defense carbine, I have no doubts about 9mm.
Find ManBearPig!
06-03-12, 00:48
really?
I wouldn't go bear hunting with it, but for a close-quarter, self-defense carbine, I have no doubts about 9mm.
I don't claim to be an expert in terminal ballistics or employing firearms in self defense.
However, there is someone, well respected on this forum, who is qualified to speak on this matter, and I differ to their opinion. I am merely repeating information I have gathered through reading through DocGKR's threads, all of which points towards full size rifle calibers being a superior option compared to pistol calibers.
I will direct you to this thread in particular:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=44869
As I said, I am no expert, but I bet if you asked DocGKR yourself what he would recommend for self defense, an AR in 9mm or .300 Blackout, he would probably say .300 Blackout.
As I said, I am no expert, but I bet if you asked DocGKR yourself what he would recommend for self defense, an AR in 9mm or .300 Blackout, he would probably say .300 Blackout.
You missed my point.
I didn't comment on which was BETTER, rather I said *I* would be perfectly confident choosing 9mm for self defense.
I personally went with the 9mm because:
1. It shares mags with my glock 34, 17 and 26 (which I have tons)
2. It suppresses VERY quiet.... Id argue nothing other than a .22 is quieter
3. Its a tried and true caliber.
4. I wasnt ready for a NEW caliber than I dont already stockpile and reload
5. cheaper to shoot
My go-to weapon for home defense is a glock21.... mostly because I can keep it safe in my nightstand (moreso than a longgun). However, if I was going to foght my way to a long gun to bring into action, it wouldnt be a 9mm carbine or a .300BO or a 5.56- it would be a 12gauge....
btw, your link shows ballistic comparisons to 5.56, nothing in there about .300 - so not really relevant to this conversation...
Lastly, I think .300 is a cool round... If it takes off, I woudnt be surprised if Im not building one to sit on one of my M4 lowers in the future...
Alaskapopo
06-03-12, 03:44
Lots of things.
A 9mm is a good handgun round but not such a good carbine round.
The 12 gauge is a good home defense option but so is a good 5.56 carbine.
The .300 blackout is too new for me to say how comfortable I would be using it for any kind of self defense. However its going to be better than a pistol caliber carbine.
Pat
A 9mm is a good handgun round but not such a good carbine round.
Pat
I don't claim to be an expert in terminal ballistics or employing firearms in self defense.
However, there is someone, well respected on this forum, who is qualified to speak on this matter, and I differ to their opinion. I am merely repeating information I have gathered through reading through DocGKR's threads, all of which points towards full size rifle calibers being a superior option compared to pistol calibers.
I don't want to dispute the Internet experts here, sounds like they need to send a memo to a few folks:
Navy Seals
British SAS
German GSG9
Those "dummies" have been using 9mm carbines for years!
;-)
scoutfsu99
06-03-12, 15:26
What do they use now?;)
I don't want to dispute the Internet experts here, sounds like they need to send a memo to a few folks:
Navy Seals
British SAS
German GSG9
Those "dummies" have been using 9mm carbines for years!
;-)
"Had" been using would be a more apt description.
RogerinTPA
06-03-12, 16:40
Correct me if I'm wrong, but for a little over two decades, MP5s in 9mm were the "go to" SMGs for hostage rescue with SOF forces around the world. A few reasons the switch was made in the U.S., was for a more common weapon system (M-4) and the 5.56mm caliber, which offered more lethality, regardless of barrel length, over the 9mm. It also streamlined logistics. The rest of the world, noticed what we did and followed suit. The MP5 series and other SMGs in 9mm, are still in use with some international & domestic SWAT teams, although currently, not so much.
Well. If you include the replacement hk, the UMP, it is still definitely in use.
And, more importantly, James Bond uses one: game, Set, Match!
;-)
What do they use now?;)
.300 blackout?
I tried to search any LE or military units that we're using .300bo as standard issue and couldn't find any....
Please educate me.
Yup... But I decided to do THIS:
12405
Sbr, supressed 9mm, glock mags.
Cheaper to shoot and QUIET!
That lower takes Glock mags also?
That lower takes Glock mags also?
Yup. Lower by DDLES. Works with both factory glock mags as well as the slightly bigger Korean mags.
After researching all the tradeoffs with the 9mm conversions, I opted to go with dedicated lower.
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