View Full Version : Opinions on KAC RAS handgaurds
I've got a Bushy M4 I've added a few mods to (including restaking of gas key). I went with the KAC RAS, I wanted to remain as close to military gear as possible. I plan on adding a second M4 (probably a LMT at this point) in the future. Due to medical and dental requirements in the family as well as lowered overtime it may be as long as next year's income tax return (but I hope sooner). I want to keep it near to the BM M4 (and the military's) and all I hang off the rail is a light and vertical grip. Would you recommend going with the KAC again or something else? I'm not worried about a FF gaurd. Price is not the decideing factor but could play a part.
The KAC M4 RAS is all I use. Not because I think it's better than anything else, but it fits me better. It's what we have on issued guns, I'm used to it and it's high quality. If it ain't broke, don't fix it...this is the way I look at the RAS. It just plain works for me.....
I have to admit, the DD Omega intrigues me but I'm already invested in the KAC RAS system and see no need to ditch it.
Good luck with your LMT....I know what it's like to have to forcast your rifles, but it does give you a nice carbine to look forward to. Sounds like you have your Bushie set up fine in the interim.
I love the KAC RAS. You can probably get them CHEAP on the various equipment exchanges. Or do what I did and buy a blemished unit from GandRtactical.com.
I too believe strongly in the KAC RAS product. I had one on my issued M16A4 and it was a very solid and reliable rail system. I had a Surefire M73 on my Commando but should have a RAS Kit arrive today or tomorrow to put on the rifle in lieu of the Surefire. The RAS does what it was designed to do and it does it well. For future rifle purchases or builds I plan on sticking with a KAC RAS for everyone. If I don't, it will most likely be a KAC FF rail which I am sure still holds the same quality and reliability of the RAS.
My favorite non-free float M4 handguard.
To your question. Yes without a doubt IMO.
I have a KAC RAS on my LMT carbine and another on a M16A4 type build.
While I can understand the mentality of having a military clone of any rifle,there a better choices out there IMO for you AR.You have to remember the gov't operates on the lowest bidder and not necessarily the best end product.For roughly the same money as the KAC RAS you could get a DD Omega rail instead.
M2CW
The KAC is one of the best choices available in non-free float. The mil could have any number of cheaper 2 piece non floated systems if it were a case of the cheapest option available. That arguement gets thrown around a lot, but I don't think it applies to KAC gear.
Sure you can get the DD for just a bit more, but I just don't see much value in FF on a close to medium range carbine.
Just received my RAS today and just finished installing it. Mounting it reaffirms my prior statements. Having not installed the one on my M16A4 when it was issued that part was new to me but as expected it locks up tight and displays the quality and craftsmanship typical of any KAC product. My next Colt or LMT will most definitely have a RAS or KAC FF rail installed! Stick with KAC and you won't have a product with "lowest bidder" quality!
GastonG-NoVa
01-14-08, 19:51
I like my RAS and RAS II. They do fine, as all I have attached to them is a light. My Aimpoints or Trijicons are on the receiver.
marylandsniper
01-14-08, 20:01
The RAS is an exceptional product IMO. It locks up tight and does what is is designed to do period. Personally for CQB and patrol you need fixed iron sights and the KAC is the perfect solution to urban conflicts. :o
I'm not saying KAC is junk or cheap,just that IMO there are better options available today.Having said that,I plan on adding KAC rails to my A4 clone.
If you plan on hanging a bunch of stuff/weight on your rails,you'd be better off with a FF rail.
Paladin4415
01-14-08, 21:22
All my carbines wear a KAC RAS except for one that has a free float LaRue. I love the RAS.
Thanks guys, I had been offline for sometime and when I returned I was bombarded with a ton of new gear I had never herd of. I feel better knowing the KAC rails still get the job done. It gives me a small sense satisfaction using the same gear as our troops. BTW, my BM is outfited with a Vicker's 2point sling, Troy BUIS, Aimpoint ML2 in an ARMS mount, KAC RAS with a GGG vertical grip and a Surefire light I snap on when needed. I plan on a very similar set up on my next M4 save maybe an Aimpoint M4 with 3x magnifer. Then my wife can have the BM.:D
general_purpose
01-15-08, 00:37
Knight's Armament Company was the lowest bidder? :eek:
KAC is a great company with cool stuff, but I never considered them "the lowest bidder." When OEF kicked off my commander authorized us to purchase RAS units for our M4A1s because we knew they were the best (keep in mind this was over 6 years ago). Some of our M4A1s had RIS units and we upgraded them to the RAS to hold a better zero for our AN/PEQ-2 IR lasers.
The .gov does have to follow a mandate to save taxpayer dollars by buying the lowest price, but it does not mean that the "cheapest seller" will always win. Politics plays a huge part in the .gov's decisions. Plus the .gov has to comply with every law on the books. The .gov has to consider all kinds of safety, labor, transportation, financial, diplomatic legislation in their decision to award a contract. That means that they have offices filled with lawyers, auditors, and such that have to vet their decisions. Add on top the influence of politics, what company making such a product is in what senator's district, how many jobs will be created, how much tax revenue will be generated, what earmarks will be allocated to support or incentivize the business to make such a product, etc. You end up with a decision that comes out not anything like the way it was originally designed.
In the end, the .gov can choose who they select to join the group of vendors that submits products to test. The result is that it is always the lowest bidder that gets the award, but always the lowest bidder of a select group of vendors.
I'll throw in with Lumpy and MarkM..
The RAS is THE STANDARD in Non free float rails in my book... excellent design and has stood the test of time... I have had mine for many years now and serves me well.
I see used ones under $200 quite often if one looks around a bit on the various EE boards.
Army Chief
01-15-08, 10:18
If you plan on hanging a bunch of stuff/weight on your rails,you'd be better off with a FF rail.
Very true, but if you plan on hanging a bunch of stuff/weight on your rails, you're probably missing the whole point of carrying a carbine to begin with.
A tricked-out 15 lb. M4 may be the delight of a civilian enthusiast, but I don't know anyone actually engaged in the business of warfighting that would want to carry all of that superfluous crap. Given a real-world application, and a properly-optimized weapon configuration, the RAS works exceedingly well.
Chief
I use one on my working shorty. Wouldn't use anything else on a shorty.
The KAC RAS is still an excellent rail system. The first one I ever owned (rail system) and I still really like the simplicity and effectiveness of it.
I use one on my new 11.5. Its a good handguard.
I have ownes quite a few two peice rail systems and always have gone back to the RAS. It is top notch regardless of what the booger eaters have to say about lowest bidder etc.
The only thing better than the RAS is the KAC FF RAS on my Noveske. I love that thing.
For a two peice rail system it is the best bar none!
While I can understand the mentality of having a military clone of any rifle,there a better choices out there IMO for you AR.You have to remember the gov't operates on the lowest bidder and not necessarily the best end product.For roughly the same money as the KAC RAS you could get a DD Omega rail instead.
M2CW
Since you seem to understand think you understand on how the mil. operates. What was a bettr option than the KAC Ras at the time the military adopted it?
Guys, let's throttle back some.
PALADIN-hgwt
01-15-08, 17:54
xxxxx
I know the FF rail will give much better accuracy potential, but to me it seems a little strange when it is mounted to a carbine intended for max speed in CQB. I know the FF will support more weight without problems but again I try to keep the weight on a carbine down. Late this past summer I killed a ground hog on the move @ 100 yrds from rice patty prone, I used my BM M4 with KAC rails, I am more than pleased it's performance. At some point I would like to build a DMR and would definetely go with the FF then. I just wanted to get up to date on rails, again I want to thank everyone for their input.
I own both the RIS and RAS, excellent non-FF rail systems for carbines. KAC started the modular frenzy with the RIS.
Guys, let's throttle back some.
Tim-
No worries.I can ignore ignorance or the ignorant.;)
YukonGlocker
04-30-08, 20:20
Is there a possibility of the RAS turning if using a vertical grip?
decodeddiesel
04-30-08, 23:11
Is there a possibility of the RAS turning if using a vertical grip?
I seriously SERIOUSLY doubt it. I have seen them (RAS) severly abused in the sandbox and never saw one "turn" or fail in anyway. I would imagine the VFG would fail first.
YukonGlocker
04-30-08, 23:17
Thank you.
After trying all matter of rails, I am back to the RAS. It performs exactly the job intended.
variablebinary
05-01-08, 01:36
As far as drop in rails go the RIS/RAS is fine good solution for those who dont want to alter their weapon and dont need a free floated barrel
There isnt much to dislike IMHO. It will get the job done.
As far as drop in rails go the RIS/RAS is fine good solution for those who dont want to alter their weapon and dont need a free floated barrel
There isnt much to dislike IMHO. It will get the job done.
Agree. As Dano pointed out though, not a good choice for optics or laser.
The factory 2nd RAS's are a pretty good deal IMHO.
C4
The factory 2nd RAS's are a pretty good deal IMHO.
I'm trying to figger out if they're seconds because the Right rail is numbered with L numbers and the Left rail is numbered with R numbers? That's the opposite of my MI rail system markings.
But when I checked out Lotboy's old RAS that he's had for years, it was marked the same way. :confused:
I'm trying to figger out if they're seconds because the Right rail is numbered with L numbers and the Left rail is numbered with R numbers?* That's the opposite of my MI rail system markings.But when I checked out Lotboy's old RAS that he's had for years, it was marked the same way. :confused:The factory 2nd I got from Grant has a little purplish splash on the anodizing up near the muzzle end, that's the only issue I've seen, and for the money, I can easily live with that.
I'm trying to figger out if they're seconds because the Right rail is numbered with L numbers and the Left rail is numbered with R numbers? That's the opposite of my MI rail system markings.
But when I checked out Lotboy's old RAS that he's had for years, it was marked the same way. :confused:
You must have installed it backwards ;) (LOL)
variablebinary
05-01-08, 16:54
The factory 2nd I got from Grant has a little purplish splash on the anodizing up near the muzzle end, that's the only issue I've seen, and for the money, I can easily live with that.
The factory 2nd I got from Grant was a little purple and had the L and R side flipped.
Nothing worth getting flustered over for what you get for the price. Great value for the best overall drop in, non-FF, with VFG and 3 KAC panels.
As I've stated on this forum and others the KAC unit is not without its problems. In fact, I think KAC would point you toward the URX if you were to call them.
The factory 2nd I got from Grant was a little purple and had the L and R side flipped.
LotBoy's factory 1st is quite purple and has the L and R side flipped! :confused:
variablebinary
05-02-08, 17:28
As I've stated on this forum and others the KAC unit is not without its problems. In fact, I think KAC would point you toward the URX if you were to call them.
Until the URX becomes drop-in, there will always be a place and demand for the RAS/RIS
I understand that, but no military or law enforcement end user has that requirement (or at least they shouldn't, because their armorer should be doing it for them). The only people who do are those civilians who choose to modify a weapon they've already purchased. Backwards compatibility is over rated.
The factory 2nd I got from Grant has a little purplish splash on the anodizing up near the muzzle end, that's the only issue I've seen, and for the money, I can easily live with that.
Are there any photo's of these 2nd?
....eh, I guess it's just kind of purple all over, but not an issue for what I paid for it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Colt%20Rifles/P1000212.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Colt%20Rifles/P1000215a.jpg
Thanks Templar!
$135.00 saving seems like a deal to me.
Did the rail covers and VFG come with the kit?
Thanks Templar!
$135.00 saving seems like a deal to me.
Did the rail covers and VFG come with the kit?
On mine, yes, they did.
I have the RIS, RAS, RAS II, and the FF RAS. Happy with all of them. :D
Are there any photo's of these 2nd?
Here is another pic: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=8327
C4
Thanks Grant, I take it you still have a few kits? What are the odds you can cherry pick one for me? Don't care if some of the laser markings are off, just don't want a purple one.
FWIW- I think I have a RIS for the M16A2 floating around my house somewhere. When I get home in September I will be doing some house cleaning and will probably sell it at that time. When I do I'll post it here.
800,000 and still going strong. It you desire more rigidity you can add a UK lower P/N 20033 which adds a clamp to the lower piece and can sustain the impulse of a 40mm . Usually when a RAS loosens up the front handguard retainer mounted to the gas block is to blame. I have been watching this thread for a while and I appreciate all the kind words and confidence in our product.
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