View Full Version : The most influential pistols of the 20th century
MilitaryArms
06-01-12, 23:10
By influential I mean their features inspired other designs. These are the pistols I believe helped to shape the popular design of pistols throughout the 20th century.
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1911: The grand-daddy of modern handguns, most every modern pistol borrows from the 1911's method of lock-up.
Browning Hi-Power: The next evolution of the 1911 that brought a high capacity double stacked magazine to the table, and a simplified 1911 method of lock-up.
Walther P38: The P38 gave us a 9mm service pistol with a double action / single action trigger and a manual safety / decocker. Until the Glock craze of the late 1980's, double action "wonder 9's" were all the rage and the Walter set the stage for that era of handgun development.
Glock 17: While it wasn't the first polymer framed pistol and it wasn't the first pistol to use a striker, it did bring these features and others together into a package that hadn't been seen before. The Glock gave us a polymer framed pistol with a 17 round magazine and a unique passive safety incorporated into the trigger itself that made the pistol stand out in the market place. Ultimately the Glock has inspired countless other companies to copy it's features and it helped to bring the modern polymer pistol to the forefront of handgunning.
Mauser KAR98K
06-01-12, 23:21
I would like to add the H&K USP line of automatic handguns.
1: The first built in accessory rail to add a light attachment on a pistol.
2: Ambidextrous controls.
You should also add with the Browning the introduction of a magazine safety, though I would put that in the negative column.
The P08 Luger and the Mauser C-96: for proving that the military auto was a sound concept.
The Colt Woodsman: for inspiring so many other larger-than-pocket-sized blowback .22 pistols.
The Walther PP and PPK: for inspiring a host of fixed-barrel blowback pocket autos including the Makarov.
Devel conversion of the S&W M-39: never built on the scale of the four you mentioned, but it showed the way for serious deep-cover autos.
Detonics: as with the Devel M-39, but for the 1911/45 ACP platform.
The Randall left-handed 1911: for taking JMB's genius a bridge too far.
The Wildey and the Auto-Mag: for taking a good idea (the magnum revolver cartridge) and going too far with it (putting it into an auto).
The Beretta M-9: for teaching a generation of American grunts that the 9mm isn't as bad as the haters say.
Are we going to get into revolvers, too?
Okie John
I think MilitaryArms pretty much nailed it for serious fighting handguns, except that most of the features of the Glock were in the VP70z. Both have polymer frames, both are striker fired. The difference (minor in my opinion) was the fact the VP70z was fully DAO that was double strike capable and the Glock has the little trigger safety. Still, the Glock had a much greater impact on the world of handguns than the VP70z. If not for the Glock, the whole concept of a polymer framed striker fired pistol would have been forgotten.
Deep cover pistols are more of a niche category and has not really had as much influence on handgun design as the Big Four. Rails? Not a big deal in handgun development. Big self loading magnums also fall in the small niche category. While revolvers still have their place, they are outdated and their primary influence in the 20th century was to give designers of autopistols a benchmark of reliability to shoot for. The only legacy the fragile P08 Luger left us was the grip angle and the Broomhandle was large, cumbersome and quirky. It was the 1911 that proved self loading pistols were tough enough for combat.
The Big Four really should be the Big Five. One pistol that was left out by MilitaryArms was the first S&W "Wonder Nines" that combined the larger cap magazine of the Hi-Power and the DA/SA trigger of the Walther P-38, kicking the door wide open for a completely new generation of fighting handguns and paving the way for others to follow, including the Glock and and put the 9mm on the map
Drifting Fate
06-02-12, 00:04
The only thing I might change would be to push the DA/SA action back to the Walther PP. While firing a smaller cartridge, it really pioneered the action type.
The P38 did introduce the DA/SA action to a service pistol as well as the locking block, which while not common, was the choice for the Beretta 92 and the attendant US military contract of the M9.
MilitaryArms
06-02-12, 00:07
I think MilitaryArms pretty much nailed it for serious fighting handguns, except that most of the features of the Glock were in the VP70z. Both have polymer frames, both are striker fired. The difference (minor in my opinion) was the fact the VP70z was fully DAO that was double strike capable and the Glock has the little trigger safety. Still, the Glock had a much greater impact on the world of handguns than the VP70z. If not for the Glock, the whole concept of a polymer framed striker fired pistol would have been forgotten.
The VP70 was also a blowback design and was designed to be a SMG. The pistol had a stock that housed the fire controls for the SMG functionality and this was the key feature the firearm was designed around. It was sold on the civilian market too, but was more or less a novelty given the trigger which worked better as a SMG as it was heavy and just plain horrific. The VP70 also had a manual safety.
But I agree with you, the Glock was far more influential than the VP70 in driving the current popular pistol designs like the M&P, Caracal, Steyr M9A1, FNS, Sigma/SD, PPQ, etc.
MilitaryArms
06-02-12, 00:12
1: The first built in accessory rail to add a light attachment on a pistol.
2: Ambidextrous controls.
I guess I don't place that much value on accessories rails. :D
The CZ-82 adopted by the Czechs in 1983 had an ambi-mag release (first for a service pistol) and an ambi-safety. It too is double action. It doesn't have a ambi-slide stop but that's not something that's required for ambi-function.
I would have to say Glock, flat out. The G17 came out and took the LEO market by storm, then civilian gun enthusiast followed en-masses. After just a few years in the US, every gun maker was playing catch up, copying their design, trying to regain a piece of their lost market share. In just 25 years, they have gown to probably the single most prolific pistol ever. It's genius is in it's simplicity and ease of use where it pretty much wins above all others. The other guns you have listed are updated, more refined versions of a previous pistol design/s. Glock broke ground where none of them have or did.
The VP70 was also a blowback design and was designed to be a SMG. The pistol had a stock that housed the fire controls for the SMG functionality and this was the key feature the firearm was designed around. It was sold on the civilian market too, but was more or less a novelty given the trigger which worked better as a SMG as it was heavy and just plain horrific. The VP70 also had a manual safety.
But I agree with you, the Glock was far more influential than the VP70 in driving the current popular pistol designs like the M&P, Caracal, Steyr M9A1, FNS, Sigma/SD, PPQ, etc.
Ah yes, good point. I'd entirely forgotten the VP70z was a blow back. I do remember how horrible the trigger was. It was said to be like that of a staple gun and I can tell you it was an accurate description.
While the use of the DA/SA trigger in the PP predates the P38, it was the latter that impacted the world of handguns by combining the DA/SA trigger and de-cock lever with a locked breech action in 9mm. All it needed was the double stacked magazine of the Hi-Power. That's what Smith did with it's Model 59 it developed for the US Army, added the double stack magazine to it's DA/SA with de-cock lever Model 39. Instant "Wonder Nine" (and also the first). If there had been a world wide web back in the day, the flames of controversy this pistol lit off would have caused the entire internet to melt down!
I would have to say Glock, flat out. The G17 came out and took the LEO market by storm, then civilian gun enthusiast followed en-masses. After just a few years in the US, every gun maker was playing catch up, copying their design, trying to regain a piece of their lost market share. In just 25 years, they have gown to probably the single most prolific pistol ever. It genius is in it's simplicity and ease of use where it pretty much wins above all others. The other guns you have listed are updated, more refined versions of a previous pistol design/s. Glock broke ground where none of them have or did.
I disagree. The Glock seemed revolutionary, but it was built firmly on the foundation of previous technology. Polymer frame and striker from the VP70z. Squeeze cocking the striker was used in the P7. It has a trigger mounted version of the grip safety. The Glock utilizes a short recoil, tilt barrel locked breech action design commonly used in other pistols. Double stack magazines were used by the previous "Wonder Nines". Even so, the Glock trigger was an unneeded compromise as requiring the trigger pull to finish cocking the striker didn't make the pistol any safer.
A very good pistol but it's design is not any more ground breaking than the others. The only real ground breaking the Glock did was popularizing the use of polymer for the frame
Just what I needed, thanks a lot.
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The Colt 1911 Hands Down
This. Glock was not even born when men were storming beaches and going into harms way in nasty places all over the globe with 1911 and like the shark, it's design changes very little over all that time for a reason... One can debate design differences, but influence in the 20th century on handgun design, etc? The others are a distant second.
while it technically came out in 1899, you should include the smith and wesson military and police revolver! the standard issue police handgun (along with variants thereof) for near a century, very reliable and accurate, and used also in military and civilian service. prior to about 1980 S&W based k-frame revolvers were the most popular non 1911 handgun in America.
ffhounddog
06-02-12, 08:33
I think you should add the S&W 39 and Sig P225/P226 to the lineup as well. We have the Colt 1911, Glock, HK, Highpower, the Sig also played a big role in European World. S&W had a large market on the Law Enforcement World during this time until the, Beretta, Sig and Glock started appearing in the 80's and 90's. S&W M4006TSW was used for years by many West Coast and out west agencies and is still used by the California Highway patol.
hotrodder636
06-02-12, 09:02
The OP hit the nail on the head as the firearms he list brought their respectable features to the world. Many of the others being listed (Sig, Beretta, even H&K) have nothing revolutionary to add and they took design basics/mechanics from the four the OP listed. The four listed were the most "influential", not popular.
By influential I mean their features inspired other designs. These are the pistols I believe helped to shape the popular design of pistols throughout the 20th century.
http://www.intempusphotography.com/photos/i-W6SnNGq/0/L/i-W6SnNGq-L.jpg
1911: The grand-daddy of modern handguns, most every modern pistol borrows from the 1911's method of lock-up.
Browning Hi-Power: The next evolution of the 1911 that brought a high capacity double stacked magazine to the table, and a simplified 1911 method of lock-up.
Walther P38: The P38 gave us a 9mm service pistol with a double action / single action trigger and a manual safety / decocker. Until the Glock craze of the late 1980's, double action "wonder 9's" were all the rage and the Walter set the stage for that era of handgun development.
Glock 17: While it wasn't the first polymer framed pistol and it wasn't the first pistol to use a striker, it did bring these features and others together into a package that hadn't been seen before. The Glock gave us a polymer framed pistol with a 17 round magazine and a unique passive safety incorporated into the trigger itself that made the pistol stand out in the market place. Ultimately the Glock has inspired countless other companies to copy it's features and it helped to bring the modern polymer pistol to the forefront of handgunning.
Nicely done sir. :cool:
I think you should add the S&W 39 and Sig P225/P226 to the lineup as well. We have the Colt 1911, Glock, HK, Highpower, the Sig also played a big role in European World. S&W had a large market on the Law Enforcement World during this time until the, Beretta, Sig and Glock started appearing in the 80's and 90's. S&W M4006TSW was used for years by many West Coast and out west agencies and is still used by the California Highway patol.
I love Sigs but what did they do with those that was revolutionary? The P225 was one of my favorites but it's not anything that a P-38 isn't other than evolutionary ergonomics. The S&W even less so. The P226 was/is a hi cap double action with a de cocker. It wasn't the first.
In my opinion the OP was pretty close with the possible exception of the Glock. The only pistols I would add are the Walther PPK because of the workable double action and S&W 59 for combining double action with high capacity.
1) 1911, reliable, accurate, simple.
2) PPK brought double action.
3) Browning Hi Power, added high capacity.
4) Walther P-38 combined service caliber with double action.
5) S&W 59 combined service caliber, high capacity and double action.
I think the OP nailed it. The others are reaching.
1911, HP, P38, G17 is a good list--well done!
SW-Shooter
06-02-12, 20:10
This. Glock was not even born when men were storming beaches and going into harms way in nasty places all over the globe with 1911 and like the shark, it's design changes very little over all that time for a reason... One can debate design differences, but influence in the 20th century on handgun design, etc? The others are a distant second.
Neither was the internet, but we all agree it is likely in the top 5 of most important inventions this century. My nod goes to the Glock 17, clearly evolutionized/revolutionized the handgun industry. JMB merely built a better mousetrap for the time.
I also think MilitaryArms nailed it with those top four handgun designs but I would stretch it to five and add the Luger as it was the first reliable and relatively compact semiauto handgun. And mainly because it gave us the 9mm Luger cartridge.
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-02-12, 21:43
I agree. Add the Luger and you are done.
Gary1911A1
06-03-12, 10:08
I can see a case made for choosing the Walther PP over the P38, but overall as real service pistols are concerned I agree 100% with your four choices.
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