View Full Version : Semi-autos versus revolvers
Unsure if I'm putting this in the right place...
I know the subject has been beaten to death, but is there any merit to choosing a quality double-action revolver (think S&W .357 with a 5" barrel) over a quality 9mm magazine-fed polymer handgun (S&W, Glock, HK, Walther, etc.) in the context of HD?
I'm asking because my father, stubborn bastard he is, insists us young whipper-snappers are crazy with our plastic pistols.
I see it like this:
Revolver:
+.357 has a lot of muzzle energy
+Mechanically, little can go wrong
+no safety aside from the trigger's weight in DA
?heavy trigger pull, unsure if this is a good thing
-low capacity
-slow reloading
-lights are impossible to mount, or at least a pain in the ass
-Heavy
-expensive (new)
Semi-auto:
+large capacity
+more affordable (new)
+quick reloads
+lightweight
+easy to mount a light
-more to fail
-less muzzle energy
Are modern magazine-fed handguns reliable enough to nullify the mythical status of DA revolvers? And are the current JHP loads in 9mm lethal enough to mitigate the storied stopping power of the .357?
Thanks.
rotorblade
06-03-12, 20:03
He is set in his ways. As long as he keeps his head cool and can put the bullet where he wants it everything will be fine.
Yes a 9mm semi auto Glock, HK, S&W M&P, and Walther would be better. But your not going to convince him.
Hell people round here still run a 1911 and trust their lives to them.
In the woods with the 300 Lb max Black bears around here he would be fine. If I were out in the woods with some heavy weight rounds loaded into a modern 357 magnum I would not feel under gunned at all. It has its place.
Drive 2 miles from here to my uncles old place in the Getto going through the hood, I take a min. of my 17 and 2 19 rd mags sometimes I have carried an AR just for shits and giggles.
BUT there will be the day when something makes him change his mind.
I Know a guy that was a hard core 1911 fan that got in a gunfight getting out of his truck to go into his mothers house one cold fall day. He goes through two 8 round mags at 3 guys trying to kill him. All 3 armed, all 3 fired at him, all 3 dead. Police got there and told him to put it down. He racked the slide on his last mag and the round in the chamber came out and the slide locked back. Yes the mag was empty yes he had one round left that was in the chamber, and no other mags on him or in the truck it. The following week he was cleared, ALL rounds fired struck home not all Gold Dots expanded. A few days later he shows up with a Glock 19 and a bunch of 15 rd mags. This was all during the ban I think he paid almost $100 per new mag. Said never again did he want to be holding a gun with one round in it and no reload.
In the context of HD unless he is expecting a gang home invasion he could do a lot worse than a .357 revolver. How many people does anyone personally know that has had to shoot someone in home defense? The .357 was stopping people for many years and still will. Many years ago as a young father and husband the only handgun I owned was a 3rd generation Colt SAA. I felt very safe and still would today if that was all I had for home defense.
Unsure if I'm putting this in the right place...
I know the subject has been beaten to death, but is there any merit to choosing a quality double-action revolver (think S&W .357 with a 5" barrel) over a quality 9mm magazine-fed polymer handgun (S&W, Glock, HK, Walther, etc.) in the context of HD?
I'm asking because my father, stubborn bastard he is, insists us young whipper-snappers are crazy with our plastic pistols.
I see it like this:
Revolver:
+.357 has a lot of muzzle energy
+Mechanically, little can go wrong
+no safety aside from the trigger's weight in DA
?heavy trigger pull, unsure if this is a good thing
-low capacity
-slow reloading
-lights are impossible to mount, or at least a pain in the ass
-Heavy
-expensive (new)
Semi-auto:
+large capacity
+more affordable (new)
+quick reloads
+lightweight
+easy to mount a light
-more to fail
-less muzzle energy
Are modern magazine-fed handguns reliable enough to nullify the mythical status of DA revolvers? And are the current JHP loads in 9mm lethal enough to mitigate the storied stopping power of the .357?
Thanks.
Yes there is merit in it. He's comfortable with a .357. If he shoots it well, cool. Also, is he young enough to still be able to rack a slide? Because many lose the hand strength to do this in their later years. In which case, .357 is probably the optimum choice.
Weapon mounted light is not a necessity. People used flashlights with handguns long before you could mount it on your gun and even Kyle Defoor has said that having a weapon mounted light and a hand held both is optimal, but if you have to make the choice, hand held is the better choice.
Understand that the average SD shooting is two rounds and done. The situation rotorblade mentioned is not normal for people who aren't military, LEO or drug dealers in Mexico. You're looking at it from a capacity point of view, but it doesn't matter if he doesn't trust the gun. Now, you can find a good metal semi auto if he'll go for that like a CZ or a Sig, but if he shoots the .357 well and he's not open to a different gun, I don't think that you're going to get him to switch. And as seb5 said, he could do a lot worse than .357. Just my opinion. YMMV.
Yes there is merit in it. He's comfortable with a .357. If he shoots it well, cool. Also, is he young enough to still be able to rack a slide? Because many lose the hand strength to do this in their later years. In which case, .357 is probably the optimum choice.
Well I have another concern entirely, in that the trigger pull is at least 9 lbs. and I know from anecdotal experience that he has no finger strength (fine motor strength, not hand strength in general) in the morning/immediately after being woken up.
We were hunting deer and in camp really early, a bear wandered in. He woke right up but couldn't summon the strength to pull the trigger at all in DA, he needed both hands to bring the hammer back and by then I had my 10mm Glock out to fire a warning shot, so it was moot.
Not harm, no foul because I was there, but I worry that if he woke up to a burglar, he'd be incapable of taking the shot.
He has a Glock but looks at it as a competition and range gun, when I think it would serve him better if he'd give it an opportunity to prove itself.
I guess I can't change him, at least he isn't that far up the road if something happens.
Well I have another concern entirely, in that the trigger pull is at least 9 lbs. and I know from anecdotal experience that he has no finger strength (fine motor strength, not hand strength in general) in the morning/immediately after being woken up.
We were hunting deer and in camp really early, a bear wandered in. He woke right up but couldn't summon the strength to pull the trigger at all in DA, he needed both hands to bring the hammer back and by then I had my 10mm Glock out to fire a warning shot, so it was moot.
Not harm, no foul because I was there, but I worry that if he woke up to a burglar, he'd be incapable of taking the shot.
He has a Glock but looks at it as a competition and range gun, when I think it would serve him better if he'd give it an opportunity to prove itself.
I guess I can't change him, at least he isn't that far up the road if something happens.
I see. Well, then he's not opposed to a Glock, just prefers the .357 for SD. I understand your concern better now and it's valid. My stance of the .357 is a good choice for an SD gun goes with you can fire it on demand. If you can't, then it's a horrible choice. I would think the bear incident would have at least made him give some thought to changing guns. Can he fire the Glock anytime on demand? If so, would he go for a Glock in .357 sig? Kind of the compromise. You want him to have the Glock and he wants a .357. Assuming it's the terminal performance of the round he's after and not the revolver itself, it might be a good thing to approach with him. Does that make sense?
It's kind of like putting a bolt action against a semi automatic rifle. They both do things more efficiently than eachother, but both have their very valid strong points in all regards.
Something else to consider. If his hand strength is weak enough that he can't cycle the slide or has trouble cycling the slide, would his grip be weak enough to not allow the slide cycle properly during operation? ie. limp wristing? I know my Dad has this problem. Just something to think about.
.357 mag is loud as hell, bad for hallways and inside the house
I've got a father who is a big gun for wheel guns and when it comes to semi autos prefers my 1911 over everything else I own. Now, he grew up around wheel guns, it competent with them, and runs them well. More to the point he is comfortable with them, more so then if I put a glock, or my H&K in his hand. If he effective with it, and he is happy with it and he practices with it then I would let him go with it, get him some speed loaders and some good loads for it. People get set in their ways, and have guns they are use to, for one reason or the other, right or wrong, they have guns they trust over the newer designs and there are certainly worse guns then a .357 to choose for a self defense situation.
From a mechanical point of view, the revolver has only two advantages over the modern self loading pistol-
1) Requires less hand strength to open and close the cylinder than to rack the slide
2) If fired from the inside of a pocket, the action of the revolver is less likely to get fouled by the cloth
The first problem can be overcome somewhat by learning to rack the slide with one handed methods. In the second case, firing from inside the pocket should be a very rare occurrence.
If it were me and my father, I would buy him a polymer framed handgun as a present and say nothing more than "I love you" when I gave it to him for Father's Day
I just shoot pistols better, but I have a couple revolvers around.
I just shoot pistols better, but I have a couple revolvers around.
Say what?
Straight Shooter
06-05-12, 16:13
I carry a 3" SP101 with full house 125gr. .357's and a couple of either speedstrip reloads, or a couple of Comp2 speedloaders.
I NEVER feel undergunned.
Also carry my M9 or Glock 21 too.
Ditto.
The .357 is an awesome defense round.
Revolvers can be the right choice but the trick is training and understanding what you're working with. For most people though, the semi-auto is going to be the better choice.
From a mechanical point of view, the revolver has only two advantages over the modern self loading pistol-
1) Requires less hand strength to open and close the cylinder than to rack the slide
2) If fired from the inside of a pocket, the action of the revolver is less likely to get fouled by the cloth
The first problem can be overcome somewhat by learning to rack the slide with one handed methods. In the second case, firing from inside the pocket should be a very rare occurrence.
If it were me and my father, I would buy him a polymer framed handgun as a present and say nothing more than "I love you" when I gave it to him for Father's Day
Revolvers also have a distinct advantage when it comes to contact shots. That's part of the reason my primary is an auto and my BUG is a j-frame.
Lost River
06-11-12, 09:31
Instead of a frontal attack of trying to change his mind through debate, I would suggest a different approach that would be of benefit to you both.
Take him shooting.
Make it a point to shoot as much as you can with him. More than you already are now. Use both revolvers and semi autos. Aside from just working on marksmanship, throw in some manipulation drills, reload drills, etc.
Have him join you at a local IPSC or IDPA match, even if only to watch.
Let him draw his own conclusions. Stimulating this critical thinking in observation and tactile learning, he may change his viewpoint. Then again maybe he won't. The bonus is that you get to spend quality time with your dad.
BTW, this is what is called the Socratic method of learning.
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