View Full Version : If You're Torn Between a 16" or 14.5"...
JBarbaresi
06-03-12, 22:12
I see the question being raised quite a bit, it was something I was tossed up between when purchasing my first mid-length. I didn't have much luck finding any good pictures comparing the 2 options, so thought I'd try to take a few while I still had them to compare side by side. I'll leave most of the opinions to all of you and just stick to the pictures, but will add that for me the extra 1.5" of bore is worth the extra 1" or so of OAL. YMMV.
http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt176/jbarbaresi/Guns/IMG_1026.jpg
http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt176/jbarbaresi/Guns/IMG_1027.jpg
http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt176/jbarbaresi/Guns/IMG_1029.jpg
If I didn't clear buildings or operate out of vehicles, I would be quite happy with a 20" musket.
Great pictures JBarbaresi. They really highlight for me how little I would gain from going with a pinned 14.5". Obviously there may be circumstances where that 1" might make the difference but for my needs it isn't worth it and these picture just validate that for me.
If I didn't clear buildings or operate out of vehicles, I would be quite happy with a 20" musket.
Agreed, my 20" KISS rifle is still my favorite just because of how well it balances.
If I didn't clear buildings or operate out of vehicles, I would be quite happy with a 20" musket.
This. You would be surprised how many more things get banged into, or hung up on, with that extra inch of length, when its used in LE. That inch feels like six, in tight spaces and vehicles.
After owning ARs from 10.5" to 18" I am seeing more and more that the 16" is the way to go. I think a 16" and a shorter SBR like 10.5" or 11.5" are really the only two lengths that make sense to me, and right now I have four 14.5" ARs...
18" - 16" - 14.5" - 14.5" - 14.5" - 14.5" - 11.5" - 10.5" - 10.5"
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7230/7258641110_0c8ede3682_b.jpg
Cameron
To each his own.
I've actually SBRd a lower for a 14.5 (so I dont have to deal with pinned crap, and so I can have any length muzzle attachments.) They're pretty handy. Not much velocity diff from the 16".
Just remember, the reason/benefit for a 14.5 is not JUST to have a legal-length rifle.
That said, I love 16's as well. I really want to build another 16 with Noveske's NST lw barrel.
I have 14.5" on a couple of rifles to correlate w/ the ACOG BDC.
However, you really do notice the 1.5" of difference when you're moving around tight buildings, or in vehicles.
abanks8245
06-03-12, 23:28
double post
abanks8245
06-03-12, 23:37
I have been deciding about a bcm 14.5 mid length and 16 inch, the biggest reason I am going 16 is flash hider/comp/brake options. I plan on getting a 7.62 suppressor and want to run it on everything including 5.56 ar's so to avoid the breaking the pin/weld. I can change my mount or flash hider at my convenience. But either way works ;)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7230/7258641110_0c8ede3682_b.jpg
Cameron[/QUOTE]
thinking of building one very similar to the one forth from right, with 16" BCM mid length with centurion 12" rail , good taste Cameron
Great photos, guys. Thank you.
DIRTMAN556
06-03-12, 23:48
You're awesome! I went with a 14.5" pinned.
m1a_scoutguy
06-03-12, 23:57
Outstanding pic's,,really shows the difference between the 2 !! Everyone has there reasons,,& all make sense,,whether your clearing buildings,,getting in & out of vehicles,,etc,,lots of reasons and different purposes for different length Bbls,,thats the beauty of the AR platform !!! I've had 16 inch,,18 inch,,but got rid of them all and now have 3, 14.5 Inch BBL. My main reason for having 14.5 inch bbls over 16 is I live in a crap state with stupid laws,,,so "any" bbl I have has to have a MB Perm attatched,(No FH),,,,"period" !!! :mad: I think about building a 18 inch DMR rifle someday & probably will,,but for now,,I love my 14.5 inch guns !!!! :D Thanks for the pic's !!!
Great Pics, thanks.
Really brings things into perspective.
This assumes that you don't have to use a longer device on the 16" barrel.
Your pics show a 1" device and a 1.5" device, so of course the difference at the end will be minimal.
If the user has Surefire or AAC muzzle devices that are 1.5 or 2 inches long, and will be using that on each barrel for a suppressor mount, the difference between the two lengths will be more apparent.
With the same device, the 14.5" will be 1.5" shorter overall (duh), and to me that makes a noticeable difference in tight spaces. The pics above is comparing apples to oranges with any device other than a BC or A2.
hotbiggun42
06-04-12, 11:32
May only be an inch but it makes a huge difference in how the rifle feels, handles and looks. IMO
Unless you're in enclosed spaces (porta-shitter or tighter in terms of claustrophobia) a lighter contoured 16" will feel smaller and lighter than a heavier 14.5".
Going with a more vertical pistol grip and shortening up the stock is a far more efficient way of decreasing OAL, and I'm with Cameron in that 16" carbines will do everything I need them to, except when size is THE concern, in which case a 10.5" with a short can is the ticket.
I too have 4 14.X" carbines, and they're all pretty excellent to be honest, but I'm only happy with them because I like the configuration I chose (or Monty's C4 rail solved the problems I had with them).
hotbiggun42
06-04-12, 11:55
[QUOTE=TehLlama;1320910]"I'm with Cameron in that 16" carbines will do everything I need them to"
What will a 16" do better than a 14.5" in the same configuration? I don't understand Cameron's opinion of of the 16" to 10.5 and excluding 14.5" lengths. But I do love his collection of ARs
[QUOTE=TehLlama;1320910]"I'm with Cameron in that 16" carbines will do everything I need them to"
What will a 16" do better than a 14.5" in the same configuration?
Little bit more velocity, but not much. Some 16's will feel like better shooters, simply because of the slight increase in weight. A similarly configured/profiled 14.5 can have a slight snappier feel to it. Again, this is all about that extra weight at the tip of the barrel. In addition to velocity, this is why you sometimes see 18's on 3Gun rifles. More weight at the tip, during rapid fire usually equates to less overall movement and let's you get back to, or stay on target faster. Totally depends on the usage of the rifle.
You either need the velocity or you don't. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the velocity diff is approx. 140-160fps?
Ooops - looks like much less than that - barely a diff at all (closer to 70-90fps diff):
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f41/Mazer18/velocity.jpg
hotbiggun42
06-04-12, 12:09
[QUOTE=hotbiggun42;1320915]
Little bit more velocity, but not much. Some 16's will feel like better shooters, simply because of the slight increase in weight. A similarly configured/profiled 14.5 can have a slight snappier feel to it. Again, this is all about that extra weight at the tip of the barrel.
You either need the velocity or you don't. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the velocity diff is approx. 140-160fps?
Then 20" makes more sense than 16" if length is not an issue. I see the value of 16" in terms of keeping your rifle as short as possible and still being able to remove your muzzle device but that is the only benefit to a 16" over a 14.5" barrel. IMO
Great comparison, was wondering just how much difference there was before ordering my next upper.
arizonaranchman
06-04-12, 12:15
This. You would be surprised how many more things get banged into, or hung up on, with that extra inch of length, when its used in LE. That inch feels like six, in tight spaces and vehicles.
I agree, every little bit helps. My working gun is a 14.5" and it's noticeable in the tight confines of a car and gun rack.
[QUOTE=hotbiggun42;1320915]
Little bit more velocity, but not much. Some 16's will feel like better shooters, simply because of the slight increase in weight. A similarly configured/profiled 14.5 can have a slight snappier feel to it. Again, this is all about that extra weight at the tip of the barrel.
You either need the velocity or you don't. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the velocity diff is approx. 140-160fps?
I live in a ban state so any MB needs to be perm attached. I'm just wondering why given the choice that a 14.5" NFA upper is more desirable than something shorter like say an 11.5" upper? What role do you use your 14.5's in? TIA
hotbiggun42
06-04-12, 12:28
[QUOTE=Brahmzy;1320921]
I live in a ban state so any MB needs to be perm attached. I'm just wondering why given the choice that a 14.5" NFA upper is more desirable than something shorter like say an 11.5" upper? What role do you use your 14.5's in? TIA
I live in Washington State no NFA here also. If it were an option I would have a 11.5" upper over a 14.5". My 14.5" carbines are used for HD and fun.
I would go 20" if i wanted to go with a longer rifle in fact that may be my next project. I really enjoy plinking with a 20" AR.
I am not trying to argue with you guys over this I just enjoy a good conversation and I love ARs!
Thanks for having me on your site! Lots of great info here.
BufordTJustice
06-04-12, 12:38
I'm a huge fan of the 14.5" middy...even with a perm'd MD because of two words:
Dwell time (or lack thereof).
Controllability and Dwell time is a good point, although I've never shot a 14.5 midlength.
They tend to look pretty cool IMHO.
If I went 14.5 I would perhaps SBR it, but I don't have much against pin & weld as long as my muzzle device is good and capable of a suppressor. I like options.
16" is currently all I've got going for the fact 14.5's weren't widely available before the past couple years. -- not from what I saw.
JBarbaresi that Centurion railed upper is awesome lookin'.
JBarbaresi
06-04-12, 13:41
JBarbaresi that Centurion railed upper is awesome lookin'.
thanks, here's the whole thing.
http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt176/jbarbaresi/Guns/IMG_1116.jpg
http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt176/jbarbaresi/Guns/IMG_1117.jpg
like i said in the OP, my intention was not to start another barrel length war. this thread was directed towards those who are trying to decide between a 14.5" with pinned extended muzzle device and a 16" with standard muzzle device.
obviously if you add a 2" device to each barrel they will still retain a 1.5" difference in OAL. obviously if OAL is not a great concern it doesn't matter whether you go 16" or 20". i have been in the army for over 10 years so understand that 1" of OAL may make a difference in confined places or vehicles, however for the majority of shooters out there it doesn't make sense to SBR a 14.5" barrel and therefore are tossed up between these two options. ideally a 10.5" or 12.5" is better for close quarters than a 14.5" or 16", that wasn't the point of this thread.
there are a lot of good points being made, but some are way off topic for this thread. this was just a picture comparison, whoever is in the market for one or the other will ultimately have to decide whether the extra 1" of OAL savings is worth the negatives associated with the pinned MD. if the 14.5" works for you and you are sure that it's in the configuration you want, potentially permanently, go for it. there's absolutely nothing wrong with a 14.5" barrel, our standard issue M4's are 14.5" (albeit carbine length) so that is not what I'm trying to imply.
TangoSauce
06-04-12, 20:31
I really like the feel of my 14.5'' middy over my 16'' middy. The 14.5'' has a BattleComp 1.5 and the 16'' a KAC 3T, so I'm not sure if it's fully apples to apples...nonetheless the 14.5'' is very nice imo.
I prefer the 14.?'s over the 16" and they outnumber the longer muskets in my current configurations. I do like the 16" for my scoped precision type carbines. Even if I had only one it would be a 14.5. That extra inch does matter if you use them regularly exiting vehicles and clearing structures. The other thing that the picture can't convey is the balance factor.
I have both and prefer the 14.5" as well. The difference (which I measure at about 1.25") may not sound like much but as others have said it really does make a difference in terms of balance and when moving in tight spaces. Pinning a flash hider is worth it to me as long as you have experience with various muzzle devices, rails, etc. and are sure what parts you want... and as long as you choose a flash hider that does not have a ridge that will trap a lot of fouling between it and the end of the barrel.
Retiredbroke
06-04-12, 22:46
May only be an inch but it makes a huge difference in how the rifle feels, handles and looks. IMO
+1 My 16's don't get out much since I picked up a couple 14.5's
JBarbaresi
06-05-12, 10:03
let me play devil's advocate since i don't have a clear cut preference one way or another.
when comparing apples to apples and the only difference being the length of barrel and muzzle device, yes the 14.5" might "balance" better when transitioning from target to target because of that 2oz or so weight savings up front. however IMO the length and design of the rail, barrel profile, and stock all play much more of a role in the balance of the rifle than an extra inch off the front. going from a MOE stock to a much heavier Emod stock on that 14.5 BCM upper actually balanced the rifle better and made it feel lighter and less front heavy, even though the over all weight was more.
so if you're set on what kind of rail and stock you want, going with a 14.5 might be the best option for you. i can say that my 16" centurion upper with the FSB and mid cutout rail balances and feels better than the 14.5 BCM with DD 12.0 Lite does, but the centurion has a lighter/shorter rail and a LW profile barrel. it also feels "right" with an Imod stock instead of the Emod which allows even more overall weight savings. this is not a light weight build, so the goal was not to save every ounce possible, but matching the right parts to your build does make a huge difference in the way the rifle feels. "feel" is also a very subjective thing and personal preference.
The reason to choose a 16" over a 14.X" isn't MV by any stretch of the imagination, it simply is the ability to get access to the gas block and barrel nut (and obviously swap muzzle device) as needed to keep that particular carbine relevant.
In states where a permanent device is required, this argument disappears, and a 14.X" barrel with something like a BattleComp is THE way to go, period. In non-NFA states where you want the shortest reasonable rifle for HD/Vehicle use, then I'd say it's worth the added cost and limitations.
As mentioned earlier, handguards like the Centurion C4 (and cutout/FSP versions of those rails) make the pinned barrels far more relevant for updating, and are absolutely worth considering.
In any other case, the MV and weight differences are typically a wash, and decisions elsewhere have more to do with how the carbine handles anyway.
RogerinTPA
06-05-12, 15:16
I have a 14.5 LW DD with a permed 1.5 Battle Comp. Although I enjoy shooting it, outside of a LEO or Military application, a 16" barrel seems to be a better all around, practical, do most things gun. If I were to go down the SBR path, it would be a 12.5' gun.
hotbiggun42
06-05-12, 15:21
I have a 14.5 LW DD with a permed 1.5 Battle Comp. Although I enjoy shooting it, outside of a LEO or Military application, a 16" barrel seems to be a better all around, practical, do most things gun. If I were to go down the SBR path, it would be a 12.5' gun.
What makes a 16" barrel better all around? Why is 16" more practical?
JBecker 72
06-05-12, 15:32
I gotta get one of those Centurion middy cut out rails one of these days. Very nice!
I went with a 16" middy simply because I didn't like the idea of a permanently attached muzzle device and I am only using the rifle at the range so the shorter length isn't needed. When I move back to VA I plan on building an 11.5" SBR to fill the short rifle role.
What makes a 16" barrel better all around? Why is 16" more practical?
The permanently attached muzzle device is the only significant limitation. You're stuck with that particular muzzle device, barrel nut, and gas block/FSB unless you want to destroy the MD, and then install a new one.
TangoSauce
06-05-12, 16:16
The permanently attached muzzle device is the only significant limitation. You're stuck with that particular muzzle device, barrel nut, and gas block/FSB unless you want to destroy the MD, and then install a new one.
I've had Rainer remove my BC 1.5 before with no issues. I believe they drilled it out then re-filled. I realize this may not always be the outcome and several smith's advertise that the MD will be destroyed as part of the process. But yeah, it's a bitch and costs money. I'm to the point that I know what kit I'm happy with which helps.
Or... F1 a lower for $200 and you can do whatever the heck you want with whatever length you want. F1 once, cry once.
After owning ARs from 10.5" to 18" I am seeing more and more that the 16" is the way to go. I think a 16" and a shorter SBR like 10.5" or 11.5" are really the only two lengths that make sense to me, and right now I have four 14.5" ARs...
Cameron
Agreed. Losing that extra 1.5" ain't worth the hassle. If I need short, I need short and that means 12" or less and that of course means a real SBR.
RogerinTPA
06-05-12, 16:49
What makes a 16" barrel better all around? Why is 16" more practical?
Agree with TehLlama. I'll add more muzzle velocity, more choices in muzzle devices & barrel lengths, if one chose to reconfigure it. If I was restricted to only one AR for the rest of my life, the best all around AR for me would be one of my 16" middys, followed closely by my 14.5 inch perm'd middy. Having said that, I wouldn't have an issue with one of my 16" 6920s either.;)
people in these more "free" states should realize that not everyone can fill out a form 1 and get an sbr. Sometimes 14.5 is as short as they can get. If you're going to be using it indoors then going as short as you can without breaking the law, you bet they're going to do it.
A 16" is the better choice. Though it probably won't matter in the real picture.
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