View Full Version : Legalize semi auto for hunting in PA
Is there a serious effort to get semi auto legalized for hunting in PA? I've seen a couple of bills brought up nominally but nothing seems to be happening with them. Who can I work with to get it passed? I see that there's a Sunday hunting coalition which I'll also gladly support, but what about this? I just spent a year in California then 3 in New York and am hoping to enjoy freedom again. In a supposedly pro gun state shouldn't this be a no brainer?
SuperiorDG
06-04-12, 17:31
Get that only flintlock during muzzle loader season fixed too.
That one seems to be a sacred cow here for some reason. I have never been able to figure out the logic. States that are far more restrictive in many aspects allow semi auto but we don't. Every effort to introduce it seems to meet serious opposition.
I would love to see this come about too but I am not holding my breath.
Sounds like we need to get more vocal and more organized.
It is an uphill battle. Much of the opposition to semi autos for hunting comes from hunters and other gun owners so we are our own worst enemy in a sense.
I am not trying to discourage you but bear in mind that it is hard to get legislators to pay attention to a narrow and unpopular issue. You will not likely see a lot of support from large gun lobby groups as they are divided on the issue or don't want to spend precious political capital on that issue.
I agree with you, it really is silly but it just does not seem to be enough of an issue to get serious attention.
OK, so the first part of the task is to make it more popular with gun owners and hunters. That we can do because we do have established channels to make that happen.
Lone_Ranger
06-06-12, 08:42
It is an uphill battle. Much of the opposition to semi autos for hunting comes from hunters and other gun owners so we are our own worst enemy in a sense.
Indeed. I've never owned a revolver, and have only recently bought a bolt action rifle. I can say, every time I've gone to a public range, some knucklehead will come up to me and say, "what cha gonna do with that? Can't hunt with it." :rolleyes:
Heavy Metal
06-06-12, 10:58
Indeed. I've never owned a revolver, and have only recently bought a bolt action rifle. I can say, every time I've gone to a public range, some knucklehead will come up to me and say, "what cha gonna do with that? Can't hunt with it." :rolleyes:
"**** hunting! It's animal cruelity! I can go to the grocery store any day of the week!"
That usuallys shuts them up as they are too busy picking up the pieces of their sacred cow.
Indeed. I've never owned a revolver, and have only recently bought a bolt action rifle. I can say, every time I've gone to a public range, some knucklehead will come up to me and say, "what cha gonna do with that? Can't hunt with it." :rolleyes:
It is precisely that ignorance on their part which I want to do everything I possibly can to eradicate.
Indeed. I've never owned a revolver, and have only recently bought a bolt action rifle. I can say, every time I've gone to a public range, some knucklehead will come up to me and say, "what cha gonna do with that? Can't hunt with it." :rolleyes:
Just remember, that knucklehead is the guy/gal that you are going to need lobying their legislator for you to get something like this changed. Make nice with them and educate them on what a great ergonomic platform the AR is, some of the "hunting" calibers that the AR is available in and how many other states allow semi auto for hunting. Show them how you can have one lower several uppers for different applications, etc.
They probably have images of youtube commandos in the woods on the first day of buck season with an AK and a bandolier of mags looking to spray lead everywhere. We are the only ones who can change that.
The_War_Wagon
06-07-12, 08:49
It is an uphill battle. Much of the opposition to semi autos for hunting comes from hunters and other gun owners so we are our own worst enemy in a sense.
FUDD in PA is thicker than black strap molasses in winter. :rolleyes: It's as if hunters and other shooters come from different planets. You'll probably need a LOT of hunters over 50 to retire, move, or, transfer to that, 'great bolt action field in the sky,' before the current crop of folk accustomed to semi-auto rifles, can make any headway against it.
FUDD in PA is thicker than black strap molasses in winter. :rolleyes: Then we take Chesty Puller's attitude towards it: "So they've got us surrounded, good! Now we can fire in any direction, those bastards won't get away this time!"
FUDD in PA is thicker than black strap molasses in winter. :rolleyes: It's as if hunters and other shooters come from different planets. You'll probably need a LOT of hunters over 50 to retire, move, or, transfer to that, 'great bolt action field in the sky,' before the current crop of folk accustomed to semi-auto rifles, can make any headway against it.
Somebody has been to this dance before. :D
Lone_Ranger
06-07-12, 13:58
Just remember, that knucklehead is the guy/gal that you are going to need lobbying their legislator for you to get something like this changed. Make nice with them and educate them on what a great ergonomic platform the AR is, some of the "hunting" calibers that the AR is available in and how many other states allow semi auto for hunting. Show them how you can have one lower several uppers for different applications, etc.
I've tried. One day, one of these guys was admiring the S&W 5906, I had just bought. "Wow! Nice looking foreign gun, how much you spend for that?" I told him it was a Smith & Wesson, and his attitude changed a little. I let him shoot it, and he promptly stove-piped the first or second shot. I cleared the malfunction, and finished the rest of the magazine, without an issue. I told him, it was operator error, from a loose grip. He wasn't convinced. He walked away shaking his head, no doubt, with all of his beliefs confirmed. No doubt, wondering how stupid I must be, to spend so much, on an unreliable, foreign-looking gun, that you can't hunt with.
I saw him later that day, and he wanted to show me his 'practical' gun. It was a .44 Magnum, with a 10" barrel, and a SCOPE! He was very proud of the fact that he could hunt with it.
I've tried. One day, one of these guys was admiring the S&W 5906, I had just bought. "Wow! Nice looking foreign gun, how much you spend for that?" I told him it was a Smith & Wesson, and his attitude changed a little. I let him shoot it, and he promptly stove-piped the first or second shot. I cleared the malfunction, and finished the rest of the magazine, without an issue. I told him, it was operator error, from a loose grip. He wasn't convinced. He walked away shaking his head, no doubt, with all of his beliefs confirmed. No doubt, wondering how stupid I must be, to spend so much, on an unreliable, foreign-looking gun, that you can't hunt with.
I saw him later that day, and he wanted to show me his 'practical' gun. It was a .44 Magnum, with a 10" barrel, and a SCOPE! He was very proud of the fact that he could hunt with it.
See the Fudd comment above. No one said it would be easy, or fun.
I'm working on putting together a strategy package to make it fun and somewhat easier.
Lone_Ranger
06-07-12, 14:24
See the Fudd comment above. No one said it would be easy, or fun.
True. Very, true. :blink:
Being born and raised there I can tell you it's an even harder battle because you fighting traditions that have been around since the beginning of our great nation.
It's the mindset that needs to be changed. Good luck with that.
Being born and raised there I can tell you it's an even harder battle because you fighting traditions that have been around since the beginning of our great nation.Here's the thing about that: hunting is what the tradition is, and that is being out in nature and interacting with it, using fieldcraft and marksmanship. I seriously doubt that excluding a kind of rifle, in fact actively hating it, is as essential to it as people are led to believe. And interestingly enough, as you point out that the tradition of hunting in PA runs directly along the path of American history, it is clear to see at a glance that it has seen every phase in transition of firearm evolution thus far and is simply due to take the next step: from smoothbore to rifled barrel, from flintlock to percussion cap, from muzzleloader to metallic cartridge, then smokeless powder, bottlenecked cartridges, etc. The idea that PA can't adopt M14/M1A's, AR15's, Remington 7400's, Ruger 10/22's, Marlin 60's, etc. as perfectly accepted hunting rifles just the same as it's picked up everything before them is completely nonsense.
It's the mindset that needs to be changed. Good luck with that.Ideas change all the time. Did everyone have a cell phone back in 1994? Imagine asking people then if they would now. Had over half of people in the country flown in a plane in 1920? You'd probably have been laughed at for telling people you could call on the phone and get a ticket to fly from 30 minutes to an hour from where they live to anywhere on the globe with less than 15 minutes of talking and reciting a (credit card) number. Do you think that in 1920 (8 years prior to its discovery) most people knew or believed that you could cure dozens of deadly diseases which had previously wiped out hundreds of thousands of people at a time with use of an extract of a common mold? How about the idea that building a nuclear shelter in the late 1950's was a total waste of time? Just barely over 500 years ago, even suggesting that this continent that we're standing on right now even existed was a crazy idea until someone sailed over the Atlantic and back to prove it.
By comparison, the task of convincing a few people towards advancing the use of rifle designs forward from previous limits of the 1890's to that of the 1950's and 60's seems considerably easier.
You make a good point, and I agree with you. I will be interested to see how your effort to advance the issue takes shape.
SuperiorDG
06-08-12, 08:47
My x-wife's family is just north of Pittsburgh and I have hunted there often. Their idea of what the 2nd Amendment purpose in the Constitution is to keep the government from taking there hunting rifles. They could give a shit about all the "other guns" out there.
I never meant to imply that it couldn't be done. Just that it's an uphill battle. My family is rooted in PA and spread around several counties.....most of them that I talk to at the reunions have no use for semi's for hunting. Even cousins and nephews/nieces who have spent time in the sand. They all seem to be quite content with the bolt actions.
You make a good point, and I agree with you. I will be interested to see how your effort to advance the issue takes shape.
Thanks. As I'm working on this, doing a point by point list and writing out concepts for flyers, ads for publications, hunter education snippets, etc., I have to ask: Does anyone here know of prior efforts that have sought to get this problem solved in a methodical, systematic, well thought out manner? I.e. did the previous people who tried have a real plan in the same sense you would run a business, teach a school course, run a political campaign, or cure a disease? This is very much like all of those things.
Example, curing a contagious disease, which shares much in common with the belief in a bad idea, in this case the idea against using semi autos for hunting:
A. Identify and understand the disease itself: symptoms, life cycle (how long it takes to run its course), etc.
B. Identify who or what, where and when the disease is acquired (age, location, occupation, daily activities of them)
C. Identify the specific pathogen--fungus, virus, bacteria, chemical, etc.--and study it, learn how it behaves
D. Identify the vector which transmits the disease
E. Figure out a way or better yet many ways to minimize the transmission of the disease, e.g. reduce the numbers of the vector (mosquitoes for malaria, for example)
F. Inquire as to known remedies, successful and not, for the disease itself and others similar to it
G. Quarantine/isolate the infected ones to contain the existing cases of the disease and treat them
H. Develop habit adaptations for the populations susceptible to the disease to adopt in order to minimize and prevent further future incidence of the disease.
shootist1970
06-27-12, 22:20
I've approached PA game wardens and asked if our state was ever going to join the rest of the country in the 21st century?
I always get the same stupid canned reply "Use of semi autos will only result in irresponsible shotting and more wounded game!!!" To which i give my canned reply "Prove it!! Other states limit semi's to 3 to 5 round mags, quiker followups would mean less wounded game gets away while Elmer fudd works the bolt!!! Besides how many wounded animals get away because Mortimer is too damn lazy to track it?"
My M1A is begging for a good hunt!!
shootist1970
06-27-12, 22:28
SuperiorDG, I feel your pain, i can usually take or leave hunting.
I had a guy try that with me at the range "Why do you need one of those? I think those should be banned!!!"
My reply "Hey S#!% H#@& , we're all in the fight together, if you don't help me keep my guns from being taken, then don't get all A$$ Chapped if i don't show up to help you keep yours or you see me laugh at you when you walk up to turn in ol' betsy!!!"
My x-wife's family is just north of Pittsburgh and I have hunted there often. Their idea of what the 2nd Amendment purpose in the Constitution is to keep the government from taking there hunting rifles. They could give a shit about all the "other guns" out there.
It is slowly changing. There are more black rifles than ever in Pittsburgh.
There are a lot of Fudds in PA. I don't understand the rationale of not being able to hunt with an AR, SKS or semi-auto hunting rifle. We have to remember that PA is a northeast/mid-atlantic state with all the baggage that comes from liberal attitudes in and surrounding the state. PA is one of the only states in the region that has decent CCW laws, where you can carry in a big city with a permit. Still sucks though.
I hunt both NY. and PA. I also use the public ranges in PA. even with their silly 10 or 5 round restrictions. I haven't really had the same experience as the other posters. I usually hear how others wished they could hunt with semi-auto's and how they might get an AR if they could at least hunt coyote's with them. Yea you do have the ones who think semi-auto's are "less accurate" than their bolt guns, while shooting 2" groups at a whopping 100 yards. I honestly don't think FUDDS, as a whole, give a shit what the other guy uses. Wait what exactly is a FUDD? are we talking Elmer or Old dude?
It would be great; unfortunately I can't see them changing the law.
BLUF: The average fudd deer hunter lacks firearms discipline.
Most check their sight in the Sunday after Thanksgiving. They never practice, fire the first shot and then resort to the 2nd, 3rd, and then 4th shot while the animal is on the run.
Have you guys ever been out on opening day and listened to the shots around you? I mean holy cow.
I can't imagine them with an AR or M1A changing out magazines to bag their button buck. I love when you hear guys complain about not seeing any big bucks, but talk about the spike they got. Way too much of "if it's brown it's down" attitude.
I'd love to be able to get set up with my SPR in the spring to shoot groundhogs.
Pennsylvania Game Commission = http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz181/TeryxMudder/Elmer_Fudd__Gun_Contwol_by_AngryDogDesigns.png
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