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I am contemplating an SBR set up and I honestly have no clue where to start. I was wondering about the basics. What is the best barrel length to have a balance between length and accuracy? What companies are good to look at? I know my question is vague but I don't know where to start. Thanks for the help.
Well your going to get 32,957.2 "best" set ups. So I'll add mine, LMT 10.5" DI upper and don't look back......
Ill see if I can get a brief written before a mod tells you to do some searching, stop asking for handouts and closes the thread.
Several factors must be considered in order to determine the ideal barrel length for your probable application(s):
What will your targets' probable ranges be?
Will you attach a suppressor and if so, will it extend rearward past the flash hider and interfere with whatever Gas Block/Front Sight Block and/or foregrip you plan to utilize?
Are you okay with having to test different buffer/action spring combinations to determine which delivers the most reliable cycling?
Decent manufacturers/dealers to buy from are just about the same as any other AR on the market... Noveske, Daniel Defense, LMT, BCM, Troy, etc... You cant really go wrong with any of them, that said I do have to cast my vote for a plain jane BCM 11.5". Its length offers compatibility with most suppressor/foregrip combinations as well as respectable reliability with a variety of buffer setups, its price is perfectly reasonable and it does not make use of proprietary or untested materials or manufacturing techniques. My 0.02.
First off....forget about length affecting accuracy...it doesnt.
Velocity is what is affected.
Two, what is the purpose of the rifle and why would an SBR suit your needs over a 16"? I dont need the answer, thats for you to ask yourself.
"Because it is cool" should not be the deciding factor, people dont understand the commitment, not to mention money that goes into an SBR.
First, be sure that SBRs are legal in your state.
Are you looking to build this rifle, or buy it ready-to-go?
I've built two SBRs, both on 11.5 BCM barrels, with BCM BCGs and H2 buffers. I get 2443 fps from PMC Bronze (55gr .223). I chose 11.5 because, according to Paul at BCM, that length compared to 10.5 gives 40% more dwell time. Both rifles have run flawlessly from day one.
If you're preference is to buy one assembled, I'd look at a 12.5 or 10.5 Noveske. If you think you might run a suppressor, get a Noveske with switchblock.
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=176
My advice is this. If they are legal in your state, then get a Colt 6933. They are good to go from the box.
There are alot of things you need to know when building an SBR to make it run. Buffer type, springs, ammo, etc...
If you get a BCM upper 99.9% sure that it will run assuming that you have educated yourself of what it takes to make that happen.
1. BCM 11.5" upper receiver group (handguard or rail of your choice)
2. BCM BCG.
3. Vltor A5 kit with H4 buffer and green Springco spring.
4. Lower reciever and parts. (quality of your choice).
5. Stock (your choice).
If you follow the basis of the above I am fairly confident that your SBR will perform as it should.
I am contemplating an SBR set up and I honestly have no clue where to start. I was wondering about the basics. What is the best barrel length to have a balance between length and accuracy? What companies are good to look at? I know my question is vague but I don't know where to start. Thanks for the help.
My advice is this. If they are legal in your state, then get a Colt 6933. They are good to go from the box.
Saved me some typing.
Here is the progress I have made so far on my SBR:
1. Form NFA trust using an attorney ($199)
2. Purchased 2 virgin stripped lowers (PSA: 2@$99)
3. Mail one lower out for engraving ($86.46 & waiting for return)
4. Purchase Noveske 10.5" w/VIS & Switchblock ($1440 got it yesterday)
5. Purchase various lower parts
....Geissele SSA Trigger ($170)
....Six 30 round Magpul Mags ($85.20)
....Hogue rubber grip ($16.34)
....UAG tactical oversized trigger guard ($13.50)
....Accu wedge ($3.29)
....PSA LPK & Six-Position stock kit ($112.90)
....Magpul CTR stock ($106.00)
6. Complete & hold ATF form 1 (waiting to mail to be sure engraving is correct and that I don't F-UP the lower while building it out)
7. Build 2nd lower out as a pistol so I can use my upper while I wait on the ATF (~7 months)
After doing a ton of reading on the net, I selected Noveske because of reputation and high quality work. I selected the 10.5" with VIS & Switchblock because I plan to buy a suppressor some day. I wasn't concerned about the 10.5" because if Noveske is selling them, they likely work. :)
I went the build route on the lower because I like to tinker. I would never attempt to build the upper - too much math for me.
I have been wanting to go the SBR route for some time now (6 years??) and decided I should do something now before something bad happens with current gun/NFA laws.
I have 5 additional complete lowers I need uppers for. Maybe next year for those....
You'll dig that upper, I have the same one minus the VIS. I'd seriously consider an A5 system to go with that.
A5?? Tell me more!!
You'll dig that upper, I have the same one minus the VIS. I'd seriously consider an A5 system to go with that.
A5?? Tell me more!!
I run precisely what IG has posted here:
3. Vltor A5 kit with H4 buffer and green Springco spring.
Has been 100% reliable with this upper so far, mix of Federal XM193, Prvi M193, American Eagle .223, Tulammo, Wolf, MK318, PMC Bronze, maybe a few others. Very consistent and reliable buffer system, Sometimes its even hard to tell the difference between 5.56 and .223.
ETA: You can usually find the A5 receiver extension and A5H4 buffer sold separately from the kit. I know DSG and Operations Parts have the buffer and I believe BCM has the RE (off the top of my head). Pick up the spring from Brownells or directly from Sprinco. Add a castle nut and the end plate of your choice and you're ready to rock. It may cost a little more but I feel it is worth it!
I appreciate all the information given. I didn't mean to ask for a handout, but most of my time is spent in nursing school clinicals so I didn't have a ton of time to search. I guess I plan on using the rifle for a few classes when funds permit and home defense. I asked about length because I looked at several rifles and didn't know if I would be better suited for an SBR or a longer rifle. I am a new rifle shooter and honestly I really don't know the pros and cons to each platform. I don't mind tinkering, but this would be a new ball park for me.
I personaly would have got a Colt 6933. The colt is a factory sbr , so no additional markings on your receiver needed, great resale value. You could also suppress the colt, they work great with any cans, and would have saved you some money you could use for traning.
First, be sure that SBRs are legal in your state.
Are you looking to build this rifle, or buy it ready-to-go?
I've built two SBRs, both on 11.5 BCM barrels, with BCM BCGs and H2 buffers. I get 2443 fps from PMC Bronze (55gr .223). I chose 11.5 because, according to Paul at BCM, that length compared to 10.5 gives 40% more dwell time. Both rifles have run flawlessly from day one.
If you're preference is to buy one assembled, I'd look at a 12.5 or 10.5 Noveske. If you think you might run a suppressor, get a Noveske with switchblock.
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=176
If you buy one turn-key, no engraving, right?
If you buy one turn-key, no engraving, right?
Yes, if you buy an SBR from a licensed mfgr, their standard company rollmark will suffice since they are the maker, not you. The rifle will be held until your Form 4 clears and you get the stamp.
Yes, if you buy an SBR from a licensed mfgr, their standard company rollmark will suffice since they are the maker, not you. The rifle will be held until your Form 4 clears and you get the stamp.
The rifle will be held by my dealer, or mfr? I thought it transferred to my dealer just like a suppressor after state forms, and F3 cleared (I live in Louisiana, we have to have state and federal forms in this commie place)
The rifle will be held by my dealer, or mfr? I thought it transferred to my dealer just like a suppressor after state forms, and F3 cleared (I live in Louisiana, we have to have state and federal forms in this commie place)
I believe if you buy the complete rifle, your dealer holds it while your Form 4 clears. I know that if you own a complete Noveske non-SBR lower, you can buy a Noveske SBR upper, send them the lower, and they'll make it into a complete SBR and hold it for you until the Form 4 clears, then transfer it back directly to you. No engraving by you would be necessary in that circumstance.
I don't know anything about state forms. Not required here. In fact, I don't believe that state law here even requires that it be registered.
http://noveskerifleworks.com/impdf/sbr_program.pdf
/
The rifle will be held by my dealer, or mfr? I thought it transferred to my dealer just like a suppressor after state forms, and F3 cleared (I live in Louisiana, we have to have state and federal forms in this commie place)
Yeah, I didn't want the sbr sitting with the dealer for 6-7 months.... So I built mine as a pistol- as a means to an end when the paperwork clears, quick addition of stock and voila- SBR.
Yeah, I didn't want the sbr sitting with the dealer for 6-7 months.... So I built mine as a pistol- as a means to an end when the paperwork clears, quick addition of stock and voila- SBR.
I don't see why I can't buy a pistol lower and walk out with my upper and just use it as a pistol until my Form 4 clears, and then go pick up my "rifle" (lower) and flip the pistol lower (or keep it for later).
This is exactly what I am doing. You can use your short upper on a pistol lower until your paperwork comes back from the ATF.
Matter of fact, I just finished my lower tonight. I do have 2 lowers. One pistol and one for the SBR.
I don't see why I can't buy a pistol lower and walk out with my upper and just use it as a pistol until my Form 4 clears, and then go pick up my "rifle" (lower) and flip the pistol lower (or keep it for later).
This is exactly what I am doing. You can use your short upper on a pistol lower until your paperwork comes back from the ATF.
Matter of fact, I just finished my lower tonight. I do have 2 lowers. One pistol and one for the SBR.
You can't attach a vfg though, can you?
I have a virgin lower (lower #1) I have made into a pistol with the 10.5" upper. When the ATF paperwork comes back, I can attach the 10.5" upper to lower #2 (the registered SBR lower).
All this is in the ATF NFA FAQ list:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html
You can't attach a vfg though, can you?
The Colt seems to be a favorite in this discusion. How does it compare to a Daniel Defense MK18? Do these run just as well surpressed or un supressed?
I have been doing a bit of research and I was wondering what you all thought of a 14.5 inch barrel with a pinned flash suppressor and mid length gas system? I spoke to a class 3 dealer and he advised that I do this to cut down on the overall length of the weapon and skip the class 3 issues. Advice?
It depends on how short you want your SBR and whether the inconvenience of the longer barrel and permanently attaching a muzzle device is worth it to you compared to the inconvenience of getting a tax stamp for a receiver that will allow you to use any length barrel you might ever want. Wasn't worth it to me and the difference between my 11.5 inch barrel and my 16 inch barrel is huge for me.
It depends on how short you want your SBR and whether the inconvenience of the longer barrel and permanently attaching a muzzle device is worth it to you compared to the inconvenience of getting a tax stamp for a receiver that will allow you to use any length barrel you might ever want. Wasn't worth it to me and the difference between my 11.5 inch barrel and my 16 inch barrel is huge for me.
I think that the 14.5 inch with a permanently pinned flash hider may be enough just to cut down on the over all length. I will be using this for classes and range sessions and honestly I don't know enough to really reap the benefits of a SBR.
I would never SBR a 14.5". The real difference in my opinion is when you get down to 12.5" and below. Then the compactness and size come into their own. Especially when adding a suppressor.
If you don't want the NFA hassle and you are 100% percent sure that you want it a certain way then I say pin it. Otherwise stick with an SBR or 16".
I think that the 14.5 inch with a permanently pinned flash hider may be enough just to cut down on the over all length. I will be using this for classes and range sessions and honestly I don't know enough to really reap the benefits of a SBR.
I just don't feel the difference in handling between a 14.5 and a 16 inch barrel. OTOH, the difference between an 11.5 and a 14.5 or 16 is huge for me. The benefit is a nicer handling rifle. You don't have to have any special skills, training, or knowledge to appreciate the better handling.
If the overall length is 14.5" - might as well just do 16" and forget about the SBR/NFA stuff. No need to give the feds anymore tax dollars... they just piss it away anyway :-)
I chose 11.5 because, according to Paul at BCM, that length compared to 10.5 gives 40% more dwell time. Both rifles have run flawlessly from day one.
My first SBR was a 10.5" LMT factory gun, works great, we have two more of their uppers on M16's at our PD and they run great too.
My second SBR was a factory BCM 11.5" gun and we have a few of their uppers at work too, they also run great. I would go the BCM 11.5" route again if I were to do it over again because of Paul's advice listed above. I believe his statement goes on to say if he had to pick a gun to go to war with it would be the 11.5" bbl. The 6933 is also an outstanding gun, also at 11.5" If I buy another factory SBR it will be a 6933.
tango-papa
07-04-12, 15:24
My advice is this. If they are legal in your state, then get a Colt 6933. They are good to go from the box.
There are alot of things you need to know when building an SBR to make it run. Buffer type, springs, ammo, etc...
If you get a BCM upper 99.9% sure that it will run assuming that you have educated yourself of what it takes to make that happen.
1. BCM 11.5" upper receiver group (handguard or rail of your choice)
2. BCM BCG.
3. Vltor A5 kit with H4 buffer and green Springco spring.
4. Lower reciever and parts. (quality of your choice).
5. Stock (your choice).
If you follow the basis of the above I am fairly confident that your SBR will perform as it should.
Thanks for this.
I've been mulling over the decision to go with one or the other and think I'll just go Colt.
I'll be getting a pair as the gun(s) will be used as my duty rifle.
The Colt's will be set-up identically and will eventually have a suppressor.
Current (issued) duty rifle is a Bushmaster w/ 14.5" bbl (pinned) & EOTech.
If you were doing the same, would you go with the Vltor A5 kit on the Colt's?
Any suggestions for sourcing the Colt's?
Regards,
tp
Saved me some typing.
I will never get a gun with a fixed front site post again. Get a 6945.
My advice is this. If they are legal in your state, then get a Colt 6933. They are good to go from the box.
There are alot of things you need to know when building an SBR to make it run. Buffer type, springs, ammo, etc...
If you get a BCM upper 99.9% sure that it will run assuming that you have educated yourself of what it takes to make that happen.
1. BCM 11.5" upper receiver group (handguard or rail of your choice)
2. BCM BCG.
3. Vltor A5 kit with H4 buffer and green Springco spring.
4. Lower reciever and parts. (quality of your choice).
5. Stock (your choice).
If you follow the basis of the above I am fairly confident that your SBR will perform as it should.
Can't go wrong with this OP...I'm in the 11.5-12.5" camp as well, actually right in the middle at 12" and couldn't be happier with my 'foot long' :big_boss:
I'd humbly suggest a Centurion rail and G&R Tacticals LPK.
On my SBR, I also am a fan of Battle Arms' ambi safety and Vltor's emod. The emod, while heavier in comparison to stocks like the Magpul MOE or CTR, has a great cheekweld and balances a 11.5-12.5" SBR out nicely.
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/July%201%20Range/IMG_2120222.jpg
My advice is this. If they are legal in your state, then get a Colt 6933. They are good to go from the box.
There are alot of things you need to know when building an SBR to make it run. Buffer type, springs, ammo, etc...
If you get a BCM upper 99.9% sure that it will run assuming that you have educated yourself of what it takes to make that happen.
1. BCM 11.5" upper receiver group (handguard or rail of your choice)
2. BCM BCG.
3. Vltor A5 kit with H4 buffer and green Springco spring.
4. Lower reciever and parts. (quality of your choice).
5. Stock (your choice).
If you follow the basis of the above I am fairly confident that your SBR will perform as it should.
Gunz has built me several with recipe. All run perfect. No malf's, just run and gunz:D
I know that if you own a complete Noveske non-SBR lower, you can buy a Noveske SBR upper, send them the lower, and they'll make it into a complete SBR and hold it for you until the Form 4 clears,
http://noveskerifleworks.com/impdf/sbr_program.pdf
/
I thought they nix'ed that program awhile ago. The info is gone from the Noveske site. I would do this is a heart beat if they still offered it.
I thought they nix'ed that program awhile ago. The info is gone from the Noveske site. I would do this is a heart beat if they still offered it.
Apparently it disappeared shortly after I posted. Try calling and asking about it. You can get the straight scoop.
I thought they nix'ed that program awhile ago. The info is gone from the Noveske site. I would do this is a heart beat if they still offered it.
Never knew that existed. Neat idea
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