View Full Version : Why doesn't it exist?
We all know the hassles we may encounter when perma pinning a muzzle device, but it makes me wonder why there isn't an option with a .750 diameter that would allow fsb/gas block removal.:confused:
vicious_cb
06-05-12, 20:31
You would still need to have a smaller diameter muzzle device pinned in order to remove the gas block.
IYAAYASwarrior
06-05-12, 20:31
Well one reason may be the fact that if it is easily remedied in Joe Schmoes garage, what is the need for professional Gun Smiths? Just my observation. Sometimes the small things like that drive the market for the above mentioned professionals.
thats what i said, the muzzle device would be the same diameter as the gas block
Well one reason may be the fact that if it is easily remedied in Joe Schmoes garage, what is the need for professional Gun Smiths? Just my observation. Sometimes the small things like that drive the market for the above mentioned professionals.
I dont need a professional to turn a wrench, weld or grind a weld.... i have access to basic tools
I have often wondered this myself.
Some devices cannot be made with a smaller OD due to limitations caused by that annoying physics thing or material limitations. For others it may be possible but typically components are the size and shape they are to satisfy form, fit, function. Changing one aspect can cause a cascade effect on other parts of the device or component with less than desirable results.
SomeOtherGuy
06-05-12, 21:20
The only useful device I know of that small is the Nordic Components "tactical compensator" which is 0.75" diameter. It's a pure brake, but it's small and it exists.
To my mind the better questions are:
1) After viewing the other thread on 14.5" with a pinned device vs. 16" with a removable device, who, without a legal SBR (individual or departmental), really feels that 1.5" benefits them enough to be worth the hassle?
2) If that market is out there, why doesn't some enterprising barrel maker provide a 16" barrel with an integrally machined device to avoid all this silly threading, installing, pinning, and welding?
The only useful device I know of that small is the Nordic Components "tactical compensator" which is 0.75" diameter. It's a pure brake, but it's small and it exists.
To my mind the better questions are:
1) After viewing the other thread on 14.5" with a pinned device vs. 16" with a removable device, who, without a legal SBR (individual or departmental), really feels that 1.5" benefits them enough to be worth the hassle?
2) If that market is out there, why doesn't some enterprising barrel maker provide a 16" barrel with an integrally machined device to avoid all this silly threading, installing, pinning, and welding?
I agree and I wouldn't buy another 14.5 if a 16 is available, but I recently received a used upper with a 14.5 and want to avoid the perm install drawbacks. I will have to look into that Nordic, looks like my only option for keeping it simple.
Huldra is selling this very feature.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2
The only useful device I know of that small is the Nordic Components "tactical compensator" which is 0.75" diameter. It's a pure brake, but it's small and it exists.
To my mind the better questions are:
1) After viewing the other thread on 14.5" with a pinned device vs. 16" with a removable device, who, without a legal SBR (individual or departmental), really feels that 1.5" benefits them enough to be worth the hassle?
2) If that market is out there, why doesn't some enterprising barrel maker provide a 16" barrel with an integrally machined device to avoid all this silly threading, installing, pinning, and welding?
To answer your question regarding your first point, those of us living in AWB states like NJ have to have something pinned to our threads no matter what length it is. :suicide:
So if my 16" needs to be pinned, why not go down to 14.5".
ETA: And I wish BC came out with something that had an OD of .750. I'd be all over it. I guess I'll just have to live with my BC1.0 and 1.5.
polymorpheous
06-06-12, 08:20
Well one reason may be the fact that if it is easily remedied in Joe Schmoes garage, what is the need for professional Gun Smiths? Just my observation. Sometimes the small things like that drive the market for the above mentioned professionals.
Wow!
:rolleyes:
Thank you Marty for injecting some intelligence into this thread.
To answer your question regarding your first point, those of us living in AWB states like NJ have to have something pinned to our threads no matter what length it is. :suicide:
So if my 16" needs to be pinned, why not go down to 14.5".
ETA: And I wish BC came out with something that had an OD of .750. I'd be all over it. I guess I'll just have to live with my BC1.0 and 1.5.
+1...
Sucks not being able to even remove your GB... but then again, I don't know if I will ever feel the need to...
The only reason I can think for this is to replace a rail with something different and not being able to remove the barrel nut from the barrel.
A lightweight barrel could be made that was .75 at the gas port with a threadless step cut at the muzzle. A threadless muzzle device, such as the the Battlecomp could be made with the OD just small enough for the gas block to be removed. The threadless portions could be smaller in diameter since they do not have to be threaded and cut so they are an interference fit and pressed on, drilled, pinned and welded.
The other option is to design a clamp style gas block/FSB that can be split to be removed and also pinned in place. The FSB could be designed so it's pinned at the top. Drive the pins out, remove the screws holding the lower clamp and it's out of the way for replacing handguards or other maintenance
Huldra is selling this very feature.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2
I just sent them an email about this, i hope they will sell that flash hider separate!
Heres a link to it
http://www.huldraarms.com/rifles/product_e83977a0cbcd/
Adams Arms sells their version of the Evo as well, but it has their own mb on it. It bet Huldra will sell one of their reduced radius ones since they must be installing them there.
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SomeOtherGuy
06-06-12, 15:36
Heres a link to it
http://www.huldraarms.com/rifles/product_e83977a0cbcd/
Very interesting - looks like an A2 on the slim-fast plan. I'm curious about effectiveness, but given that the M14 hider works decently with a similar ratio of hider diameter to bore diameter, hopefully it works OK.
Muddyboots
06-06-12, 19:06
Mist wolf, I follow your thinking. If you make a recessed channel or similar feature that can mate with the collar of a muzzle device and be clamped on with a screw, the barrel would no longer have any evil threads so it wouldn't be an issue anymore. I think if the AWB didn't sunset, we would have seen a lot of things like that. As it is, the AWB states don't pull hard enough on the market to warrant the production work. If I'm wrong we need to get a lot louder as a group.
Muddyboots
imho as far as I understand so far an alternative method removable gas block would for sure act as a catalyst for modifications for those who buy a base AR to learn with first. Many people are new to guns and may not know what rail or hand guard they would care for. It would for sure introduce them to spending just as minimal on modifications as someone in Arizona. :big_boss:
If no one patents it I will eventually.
SomeOtherGuy
06-06-12, 21:36
imho as far as I understand so far an alternative method removable gas block would for sure act as a catalyst for modifications for those who buy a base AR to learn with first. Many people are new to guns and may not know what rail or hand guard they would care for. It would for sure introduce them to spending just as minimal on modifications as someone in Arizona. :big_boss:
If no one patents it I will eventually.
YHM already makes several different two-piece gas blocks that can be installed despite a pinned muzzle device:
http://yhm.net/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6
The "specter" model is even small enough to fit under some (very large diameter) tubes and rails. The downside is higher cost and, well, it's two parts so it's probably weaker and less secure.
If I were stuck in a ban state I would be most inclined to get a crowned, unthreaded barrel and have the last inch machined to whatever I wanted and was legal, like Magnaporting, etc.
Dave-HuldraArms
06-06-12, 22:49
Adams Arms did create a wreduced radius flash hider, they use it on their 14.5" builds as do we on our 14.5" rifle. They nick named it the manimal flash hider as the machinist who made it has that nickname. I was initially interested in the diameter and how much material was present, machined, etc. In testing the product I've been impressed and it works like it should, of course the main benefit being you can remove the gas block.
I did some basic testing with a camera on manual exposure with this FH and a standard a2. In my unscientific testing the flash signature was similar in brightness and pretty comparable, different shape slightly best way to describe it. I was using a cheap point and shoot camera and the photos were pretty crappy in quality so once I have some nicer equipment I think I can get a more accurate result. I have a friend who is a photographer and we are planning a night shoot with both video and some high resolution stills to show the differences. Once we get some quality images I'll post a video or photos of the two locked on a manual exposure. I've also been looking to see if there is a reasonably priced option to do some slow motion video but I'm still looking into that.
Thanks, Dave
Dave-HuldraArms
06-06-12, 22:52
I just sent them an email about this, i hope they will sell that flash hider separate!
Sent you an email back this afternoon. Thanks for contacting us.
Dave
YHM already makes several different two-piece gas blocks that can be installed despite a pinned muzzle device:
http://yhm.net/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6
The "specter" model is even small enough to fit under some (very large diameter) tubes and rails. The downside is higher cost and, well, it's two parts so it's probably weaker and less secure.
If I were stuck in a ban state I would be most inclined to get a crowned, unthreaded barrel and have the last inch machined to whatever I wanted and was legal, like Magnaporting, etc.
Dangit!! well, I suppose there's room for a better design at the very least.
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