View Full Version : BCM or Stag's plus package?
Before I get eaten alive I wanna inform everyone I'm a civilian that shoots Maby twice a month. That being said I'm thinking about replacing my first AR. I'm a lefty and I know i don't need one but someone pointed me in the direction of the Stag plus package I hadn't heard of prior. My question is does any one have any experience good or bad about there 4150cmv 1/7 cl barrels and tool steal 158 and shot peened HP/mp bcg? This new AR is a want not a need and i know my midd tier AR i have now will suffice fine.
CarlosDJackal
06-07-12, 14:09
BCM all the way.
What are the details on your mid-tier rifle? If its money, go with the lefty package...IMO since its a "want" go for the no brass on nose route.
My 2nd AR was a Stag, this was about 5 years ago. For what its worth, I never had an issue with it once. It was over-gassed as hell and probably would have cycled cuts of rebar.
All of that "plus" package stuff with Stag is essentially standard with BCM and I'd take BCM's quality standards over Stag's any day.
Being a lefty, I guess the real question is whether you're also pondering going with a Stag left-handed upper. I'm a lefty too, but see no point in them (you're limited to proprietary BCGs, etc.)
Obviously, if you're going Stag lefty upper, then just get the full package from Stag to go with it.
BufordTJustice
06-07-12, 15:24
All of that "plus" package stuff with Stag is essentially standard with BCM and I'd take BCM's quality standards over Stag's any day.
Being a lefty, I guess the real question is whether you're also pondering going with a Stag left-handed upper. I'm a lefty too, but see no point in them (you're limited to proprietary BCGs, etc.)
Obviously, if you're going Stag lefty upper, then just get the full package from Stag to go with it.
+1
I have a bud who has a Stag with a '5.56 NATO' chamber. Problem is, the Clymer chamber gauge clearly indicates it is a .223 SAAMI chamber. FAIL.
The BCM would serve you better and hold its value better. If you want to sell your stag a year later, might as well cut the price almost in half if you're gonna sell it private party. The BCM will be worth a lot more....and with your firing schedule, it will last indefinitely if you apply minimal maintenance and avoid rust on the gun.
I don't have any problem with any righty AR's I've shot before as far as brass or powder in the face. Just imho looks tits having a lefty. yea that would suck with the chamber reading .223. I was pretty set on BCM. Just never new Stag made a "milspec" option so to say until it was brought to my attention. Thanks guys
No problem. Happy to help.
Lefty models might look cool in your eyes, but the tradeoff in my mind really isn't worth it.
You'll only be able to use Stag lefty BCGs, which are not as easy to find as other quality BCGs. Also, what happens if Stag gets absorbed by another company, stops making lefty parts, goes out of business, SHTF, etc?
Wouldn't it be easier to have a rifle you can throw any standard, replacement BCG in and be good to go?
Then there's whole BCM > Stag, but that's more than well-covered/known.
Just some stuff to think about. Good luck!
I care a lot more about "works" than "looks". There is a standard of quality that goes into a BCM product that no one needs to buy up to...it's already part of the deal. I shoot rifles lefty too and don't see any appeal at all to the custom left-handed uppers from Stag or anyone else. Ambi controls would be a whole 'nother story.
Cheapest stag with plus package: $1040 (and this has a 1/9 twist not 1/7)
Better equipped Brand new bcm: $1035
Similarly equipped Bcm blem lower + upper: $916.
You'd have to be retarded OR didn't search much here to pick the stag.
Ambi controls would be a whole 'nother story.
This.
Do what I did and add an ambi selector from BAD ($60 or so) and a nice ambi charging handle ($75-80 or so). Rainier has a really sweet one called the Raptor coming out any day now. BCM also has an ambi Gunfighter coming, too. For less than $150, you can have an excellent performing, highly reliable ambi setup that anyone can use.
Hi Grant (good name by the way). I am also a Civy and generally only shoot ONCE a month (so you got me beat).
With that out of the way, BCM is the best choice (and you would be supporting a business from your state)!
The reason why most lefty shooters like the idea of the Stag is because of either brass hitting them OR power in their face. Generally speaking, the guns that they have shot (when they experienced this) were over gassed pieces of chit. The other reason for this is because of how they are shooting. Fully extend the stock and get your nose away from the charging handle. This helps much.
C4
I have a ambi selector now. haven't seen a charging handle that "looks" to be a true left handle. does the Rainer one operate exactly like a righty cept on the lefty side? And yes Grant i agree lol.
I have a ambi selector now. haven't seen a charging handle that "looks" to be a true left handle. does the Rainer one operate exactly like a righty cept on the lefty side? And yes Grant i agree lol.
Yes. But it's also a symmetrical handle design. Pretty sweet.
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/04/12/rainier-arms-raptor-charging-handle-by-axts/
All the quality in the world ain't gonna be worth squat if you get popped in the grape with a hunk of brass every time you pull the trigger. The "plus" package is gonna put you on par with every Colt, Bcm...etc. out there. Add to that the fact that you perceive that it'll be more ergonomic to you and the question is a moot point. If you are gonna be more comfortable with a left side firing rifle, than thats what you should get. Don't get talked into a brand over the functionality of a rifle that will suit you better.
I'm southpaw. The only time I had brass in the face was with an SP-1 (no shell deflector) that still shoots straight to this day. There's plenty of advantages to running right handed uppers that go further than parts commonality-- and I've never had gas to the face (probably proper gas port sizing in the quality rifles). Moreover you should wear safety glasses and enjoy the smell of gun powder anyway.
You shouldn't find any problems running a more reliable right handed AR. It's just a way better investment to go a little further than mid-tier when it comes to these types of firearms. I just don't like what I've seen of Stag's performance but I don't doubt they have good rifles floating around.
Whatever you decide on I hope it runs great for you and that you enjoy it.
Doc Safari
06-07-12, 17:29
BCM.
If you have any doubts, watch this YouTube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_4CskJJxvY
All the quality in the world ain't gonna be worth squat if you get popped in the grape with a hunk of brass every time you pull the trigger. The "plus" package is gonna put you on par with every Colt, Bcm...etc. out there. Add to that the fact that you perceive that it'll be more ergonomic to you and the question is a moot point. If you are gonna be more comfortable with a left side firing rifle, than thats what you should get. Don't get talked into a brand over the functionality of a rifle that will suit you better.
Most everything you said is incorrect. I shoot a lot of off hand (most advanced carbine schools require it). To date I have NEVER been hit by brass or had a face full of powder/gas (and I shoot suppressed).
There are only two holders of the TDP. STAG isn't one of them. So no, they are not equal to Colt.
Most lefties THINK they need ambi controls in order to shoot well. This is not true. What they need is proper training.
One of the best AR shooters I know is Vickers. He is a lefty and does NOT have AMBI anything on his gun. Clue!
C4
Stag plus. No 1/9 with the upgrades.
- 4150 CMV barrel steel chrome lined
- 1/7 Twist rifling
- Individually MP & HP tested and marked Bolt & Barrel
- M-16 Bolt Carrier
- Heavy (H) buffer assembly
- One extra 30rd USGI Magazine (two total)*
Other than the proprietary parts it's in spec. BCM is the tits though with your gas system options and set up.
Most everything you said is incorrect. I shoot a lot of off hand (most advanced carbine schools require it). To date I have NEVER been hit by brass or had a face full of powder/gas (and I shoot suppressed).
There are only two holders of the TDP. STAG isn't one of them. So no, they are not equal to Colt.
Most lefties THINK they need ambi controls in order to shoot well. This is not true. What they need is proper training.
One of the best AR shooters I know is Vickers. He is a lefty and does NOT have AMBI anything on his gun. Clue!
C4
Yup. It's my opinion that the AR in it's standard configuration is more suited for lefties than right handed folks with the acception that the mag release is only on the right side. That's easily remedied with a drop in part-- and not entirely important either.
As I stated before, brass to the face only happens with AR's that lack a brass deflector like the SP-1's.
Stag plus. No 1/9 with the upgrades.
- 4150 CMV barrel steel chrome lined
- 1/7 Twist rifling
- Individually MP & HP tested and marked Bolt & Barrel
- M-16 Bolt Carrier
- Heavy (H) buffer assembly
- One extra 30rd USGI Magazine (two total)*
Other than the proprietary parts it's in spec. BCM is the tits though with your gas system options and set up.
What about the stag makes you recommend it over the less expensive BCM?
Not a recommendation only factual data. He could do worse if the Left Handed functionality/novelty/look whatever is king to him.
If he really wants my recommendation buy a Colt 6720 or 6920 and work around the righty/ lefty thing.
If he wants a midlength gas system buy BCM or Daniel Defense.
Good luck Grantftw and let us know which way you go!
Bedford Forrest
06-08-12, 18:10
A good friend of mine bought the Stag lefty, it's been back to Stag twice. He still wants to stay with the lefty set up but is looking at a new barrel and a couple of other replacements already.
OP,
All brand favoritism aside, you just can't go wrong with a BCM. I instruct, assist and participate in a lot of classes and see a lot of different ARs both personally owned and agency issued and have witnessed a lot of range days and training days that were cut short or ruined due to weapon malfunctions and issues. I cannot recall a single one being a BCM.
It's also been my experience that a large number of the more experienced contributors to this site have no fears about condemning less than stellar products. So when one continues to get recommended like BCM's rifles, you can feel confident that your money will be well spent.
I researched online, tested them at the range and tried every brand under the sun and can't find anything that I would take over my mid 16 mod 2.
One of the best purchases of my career.
Just my two cents.
Hmm BCM quality > stag quality + less $ = better choice!
Most everything you said is incorrect. I shoot a lot of off hand (most advanced carbine schools require it). To date I have NEVER been hit by brass or had a face full of powder/gas (and I shoot suppressed).
There are only two holders of the TDP. STAG isn't one of them. So no, they are not equal to Colt.
Most lefties THINK they need ambi controls in order to shoot well. This is not true. What they need is proper training.
One of the best AR shooters I know is Vickers. He is a lefty and does NOT have AMBI anything on his gun. Clue!
C4
Good info grant, I was as guilty as any satan handed to think I needed an ambi gun. But after some training and practice im almost convinced eugene stoner was a lefty and designed the platform as such :D
I will not however give up my bad-ass though, its pretty amazing.
polymorpheous
06-09-12, 00:04
The members with the 2011/2012 join dates recommending the Stag over a Bravo Company carbine.
:rolleyes:
OP, get the BCM.
You will not regret your purchase.
flip a coin.
no issues w/ my stag 6.8 or 5.56 they both run like a boss.
ffhounddog
06-09-12, 10:32
I have seen a lot of Stag M4s in classes and they do run. My brother has a Stag and for what he does it works. It was what they could get at the time and my brother got it from the local Academy Sporting Goods. Now you can get better than stag with the BCM or LMT upper and there are some Colt uppers for sale as well. I would rather have a BLC sandwitch than a Stag sandwitch.
Thanks again guys. I ended up purchasing a bcm complete upper and also ordered a revolver too cause money is limited.:-)
polymorpheous
06-09-12, 22:44
What revolver did you get?
Southpaw here.
The BCM "righty" is more convenient and better quality. It Will hold better value just to help give you that warm and fuzzy feeling in case that is a concern.
But I honestly like shooting non lefty AR's. With my face being on the right side of the gun, it's a super quick glance down with right eye to see a failure or recognize the bolt held open after last shots from magazine. I can shoot nose to charge handle and never had anything hit my face. It is a little gassy when using a suppressor, but it smells good and is not terrible.
I like making a quick grab for mag with my right hand and pressing mag release with right thumb. It came natural to support the gun by the grip with my left when doing this.
All in all, other than an ambi safety selector, I see no need whatsoever for a lefty AR-15.
Now a bolt gun is a different story.
I hear ya there. I have a savage left handed bolt action that i love to death.
bluecanary
06-10-12, 19:30
+1
I have a bud who has a Stag with a '5.56 NATO' chamber. Problem is, the Clymer chamber gauge clearly indicates it is a .223 SAAMI chamber. FAIL..
I have been fighting with my Stag since I got it. Not very happy with their CS. lots of buyers remorse. Can you please elaborate about this "Clymer" thing?
Oh, btw....BCM before Stag.
BufordTJustice
06-10-12, 20:17
I have been fighting with my Stag since I got it. Not very happy with their CS. lots of buyers remorse. Can you please elaborate about this "Clymer" thing?
Oh, btw....BCM before Stag.
Clymer is a manufacturer of chamber go and no-go gauges.
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