View Full Version : IWB Holster Comfort
rather than trash the other thread I want to start a separate discussion.
for Kydex IWB, what do people find most comfortable - the two-piece riveted style (clamshell) with wide wings like Raven? or the single folded piece (taco-style) with a more narrow profile like the bladetech?
also, I'm looking for something that will let the gun sit lower than the current clamshells I own...
"Comfortable IWB holster" is kind of like "fun for the whole family" or "marital bliss"--we aspire to it, but it doesn't really exist.
A lot of comfort has to do with the holster's position, the type of belt you wear and how tight you wear it, how tight your pants are, how you're built, and how much time you spend sitting down vs. being on your feet. For me, a Milt Sparks Summer Special at 4:00 isn't bad. For AIWB, a BladeTech Nano isn't bad either, and the Fricke Archangel is probably the best. But none of them are as comfortable as a good OWB holster.
Okie John
Undershirt!
I wear a Cane & Derby PIC AIWB holster daily. Tried to wear it without an undershirt the other day... bad idea.
One thing to keep in mind, if one particular area of the holster is jabbing you, and it won't take away any safety or retention, you can radius that area a bit to see if it relieves any irritation.
"Comfortable IWB holster" is kind of like "fun for the whole family" or "marital bliss"--we aspire to it, but it doesn't really exist.
A lot of comfort has to do with the holster's position, the type of belt you wear and how tight you wear it, how tight your pants are, how you're built, and how much time you spend sitting down vs. being on your feet. For me, a Milt Sparks Summer Special at 4:00 isn't bad. For AIWB, a BladeTech Nano isn't bad either, and the Fricke Archangel is probably the best. But none of them are as comfortable as a good OWB holster.
Okie John
Exactly! I wear kydex daily, but OWB. I can't do IWB - it's just not for me. I have a friend who does wear the same Raven (G22 with a light) IWB daily, but I am miserable when I try it.
When I do wear IWB, it's a McDaniel II from Andrews Leather. Not only is the leather more comfortable for me, the McDaniel II has a locking swivel that allows the belt loop angle to be adjusted to fit the individual. It also only had the rear loop which provides just enough movement when sitting or standing that I can wear it for hours without issue (18hrs is my personal record - most of it sitting in a car).
Undershirt!
Yep. Boxers, too--going commando is a no-go with IWB. The holster will gnaw a hole in your leg.
Okie John
rather than trash the other thread I want to start a separate discussion.
for Kydex IWB, what do people find most comfortable - the two-piece riveted style (clamshell) with wide wings like Raven? or the single folded piece (taco-style) with a more narrow profile like the bladetech?
also, I'm looking for something that will let the gun sit lower than the current clamshells I own...
I've got FIST (clamshell) and Sidearmor and Bladetech folded IWB holsters.
The FIST IWB holsters I have are all model 1K but some straight drop which work well AIWB and some with different cant options. The two halfs on these are sewn together. From what I can tell they last 5-8 years before starting to crack (thin kydex) but they only cost about $45.
I find the FIST model 1K to be more comfortable, flatter and to you objective MUCH LOWER riding; which on me, it extremely helpful for excellent concealment under a wide range of garments.
F-Trooper05
06-08-12, 14:19
I can't do IWB with Kydex. I tried with my Raven and I lasted about 30 seconds. For me it's leather or nothing.
I run the PSS (personal security systems) IWB holster carrying my G19+WX150 quite comfortably. Having said that, I do use the PSS IWB wings which greatly improve comfort. They are unlike competitor's wings which I have tried (which are generally made out of the same kydex material as the holster), and are instead made out of a more "rubbery" material which is very strong but forms to your body very well.
All IWB's I've tried are awful as ****. I try to stick with pocket carry or owb.
I carry a G27 daily IWB using a RMHolsters Lowrider and it is the most comfortable holster I have used to date. Its also super simple to out in and off unlike many of the other popular designs on the market. Like others have mentioned wearing an undershirt helps a great deal.....and it will keep you cooler.
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Awesome1228
06-08-12, 15:41
This is the one I use, Galco Kingtuk. Leather so it conforms and feels better, with kydex to hold the gun in place. Works for me, anyway.
http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPG3.asp?ProductID=4272&GunID=151
packinaglock
06-08-12, 18:27
I carry a G27 daily IWB using a RMHolsters Lowrider and it is the most comfortable holster I have used to date. Its also super simple to out in and off unlike many of the other popular designs on the market. Like others have mentioned wearing an undershirt helps a great deal.....and it will keep you cooler.
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I agree, I have Lowriders for my kahr pm9, G26/27, G19/23, M&P 9c/.40c, oh and almost forgot my Keltec PT3AT.
The leather backed, kydex front hybrid is THE ONLY way to go for IWB (at least for me). The Cross breed Super Tuck, or Comp Tac Minotaur are two great examples. I wear a Glock 26 in a Super tuck all day, every day. I wear an undershirt, and I buy my pants two inches larger for comfort with IWB. I think the wider placement of the belt clips (or J hooks) hold the pistol more stable, and are much more comfortable on long days.
I do not actually tuck in my shirt over the holster, as to me, it looks like I have a lop sided body when I do. If I were slimmer, it might look more natural tucked in.
I run the PSS (personal security systems) IWB holster carrying my G19+WX150 quite comfortably. Having said that, I do use the PSS IWB wings which greatly improve comfort. They are unlike competitor's wings which I have tried (which are generally made out of the same kydex material as the holster), and are instead made out of a more "rubbery" material which is very strong but forms to your body very well.
Thanks dude. That material is cool, but a PITA to work with.
If anyone tries that IWB package, or any of our stuff, and it doesn't work out perfectly, I'll buy it back - and pay all shipping costs both ways, within 30 days of delivery. I'm pretty confident in that package.
http://img.tapatalk.com/aee8464b-a860-07cb.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/aee8464b-a88a-3460.jpg
Thanks dude. That material is cool, but a PITA to work with.
If anyone tries that IWB package, or any of our stuff, and it doesn't work out perfectly, I'll buy it back - and pay all shipping costs both ways, within 30 days of delivery. I'm pretty confident in that package.
Nice rig. Have any pictures of them being worn?
The leather backed, kydex front hybrid is THE ONLY way to go for IWB (at least for me). The Cross breed Super Tuck, or Comp Tac Minotaur are two great examples. I wear a Glock 26 in a Super tuck all day, every day. I wear an undershirt, and I buy my pants two inches larger for comfort with IWB. I think the wider placement of the belt clips (or J hooks) hold the pistol more stable, and are much more comfortable on long days.
I do not actually tuck in my shirt over the holster, as to me, it looks like I have a lop sided body when I do. If I were slimmer, it might look more natural tucked in.
While those are comfortable, I will tell you from experience (Supertuck) once the leather gets worn, those holsters have almost zero retention...not a good thing for obvious reasons.
Nice rig. Have any pictures of them being worn?
If I have time, I'll see if i can get some pics up. What exactly are you looking for in the pictures? The ride height and cant will be different for everyone depending on how the user adjusts it to their preference. For IWB I like a forward cant at about 4:30. For OWB neutral cant at 3:00.
If I have time, I'll see if i can get some pics up. What exactly are you looking for in the pictures? The ride height and cant will be different for everyone depending on how the user adjusts it to their preference. For IWB I like a forward cant at about 4:30. For OWB neutral cant at 3:00.
Thanks. Seems like most photos only show the holster un-worn which doesn't tell me a lot, I like to get some idea about how they ride and conceal if possible.
While those are comfortable, I will tell you from experience (Supertuck) once the leather gets worn, those holsters have almost zero retention...not a good thing for obvious reasons.
This is my experience too. Never had an actual problem and never figured I'd ever need some super high speed superhero moves while I EDC'd, but it still bothered me as a problem. Is why I suffer full kydex IWB these days.
i've got a custom atomic dog (raven 2 piece style) that is quite comfortable. I basically sent brian a picture of my gun jammed in my waistband where i wanted it, and he made it happen. it's sweet.
that said as far as off the shelf stuff, i think the leather/kydex hybrid stuff is the way to go. I used to wear a p7 psp in one of those, and by god it was comfy. slim gun, leather on the body side.... I bet a PPS in a minotaur would be awesome.
polymorpheous
06-08-12, 23:44
I wear a Ready-Tac from SKD daily.
It's ok, but it can slip off my belt when I get out of my car, so I have to check it every time I get out.
I can take it on and off easily with out unholstering my CCW, which to me is a huge plus.
I had a Secret City K-25, but that thing was so uncomfortable to wear IWB.
The rear "wing" dug into my lower back at a 4:00 carry.
I have a Raven on the way in the next couple of days.
Got the shipping notice today.
That PSS looks promising, but I'd like to see a sweat guard on it.
EDIT: Nevermind, I see that they offer a sweat guard.
For Kydex IWB I would go with a Dale Fricke Archangel (Taco style), I carry a G17 daily (appendix) in one and love it. If I had to go leather, I would use a Sherrick Rangemaster Thinman. I am 6'2" and 220lbs, so your mileage may vary depending on your body shape and size...
im never really comfy carrying IWB. Im still trying to find a better IWB holster for my m&p shield.
i like kydex, but im not sure about it for IWB, leather is just so much more comfy. if i were carrying owb, it would be kydex...
William B.
06-09-12, 10:35
While those are comfortable, I will tell you from experience (Supertuck) once the leather gets worn, those holsters have almost zero retention...not a good thing for obvious reasons.
YMMV, but I was able to increase retention w/my Supertuck by wearing my belt tightly and, more recently, by using a blow-dryer to tighten the trigger guard area of the kydex. I mainly increased retention out of personal preference, though, and never noticed enough loss of retention before-hand to cause me any concern.
ETA: I have been regularly using the holster in question since Oct 2010.
"Comfortable IWB holster" is kind of like "fun for the whole family" or "marital bliss"--we aspire to it, but it doesn't really exist.
A lot of comfort has to do with the holster's position, the type of belt you wear and how tight you wear it, how tight your pants are, how you're built, and how much time you spend sitting down vs. being on your feet. For me, a Milt Sparks Summer Special at 4:00 isn't bad. For AIWB, a BladeTech Nano isn't bad either, and the Fricke Archangel is probably the best. But none of them are as comfortable as a good OWB holster.
Okie John
thanks but what does this have to do with my question - which TYPE of holster is more comfortable, 2-piece riveted or folded taco???
davidjinks
06-09-12, 12:01
I've been a Blade-Tech IWB user for the past 14 years. As a matter of fact I still have my original IWB holsters I bought from them. I have carried my Glock 17-19-31-32-22-23 in the same holsters without fail.
Comfort on the Blade-Tech:
It's more of a comfort to know I have my gun with me more than the holster is comfortable. It's a folded style piece of kydex that fits the shape of the gun. It doesn't spread the weight out and it usually puts pressure in very specific points.
With that being said, it keeps the weapon low, it retains the weapon securely (I don't perform acrobats while carrying) the draw is smooth and it conceals well.
If I were to do a 1-10 scale on comfort I'd give it a 4. For carry and conceal ability I'd give it a 9.
Best picture I have for the Blade-Tech
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k299/davidjinks/Guns/DSC00990.jpg
Recently I decided to stray from what I know. Enter in RCS...
Comfort on the RCS:
Very comfortable. To me it spreads the weight of the holster and gun out over a larger area of your hip. There are no pressure points to comment on because it has such a wide mounting area.
The down side is that the RCS holds the weapon very high. Something that I consider a negative for me and my applications. It also cants the weapon out and away from my hip. Which in turn makes the top rear of the gun poke under my shirt.
The RCS retains the weapon securely. And I do mean securely. For me, when I draw my gun I don't want my pants following the gun.
For the scale, I'd give it a 9 on comfort but a 5 on conceal ability.
Another holster I have used quite a bit has been the Milt Sparks VMII. Because it isn't kydex I won't comment too much other than 9's across the board.
I've got FIST (clamshell) and Sidearmor and Bladetech folded IWB holsters.
The FIST IWB holsters I have are all model 1K but some straight drop which work well AIWB and some with different cant options. The two halfs on these are sewn together. From what I can tell they last 5-8 years before starting to crack (thin kydex) but they only cost about $45.
I find the FIST model 1K to be more comfortable, flatter and to you objective MUCH LOWER riding; which on me, it extremely helpful for excellent concealment under a wide range of garments.
thank you for your reply. you are the first person to address the question.
for IWB, I started with leather (which I still like, btw), Galco, Allessi, and Andrews Custom leather...
my first Kydex IWB was Bladetech which followed this sheath-type pattern but it seemed to be slightly less comfortable than leather.
I recently got a Personal Security Systems "Compact Cut" for my M&P Shield and I like it a lot. comfort wise it's very nice as I find the width spreads the pressure over a larger area and reduces hotspots.
I also find I can wear this holster a little farther forward than the other type but I notice this type of holster seems to ride higher than the other type and suspect this might have as much to do with the comfort as the width...
Your question as to whether a taco style or riveted 2 piece IWB would be more comfortable is a very subjective question which is probably why most answers so far have mainly been feedback on holsters which different folks have tried.
Something else that should be mentioned is that fact that you should really carry an IWB daily for a few weeks to really get an idea of it comfort. I say that because you have to give your body a chance to adjust to having the holster/gun there. Once your body gets adjusted to it you will no longer notice it, but until then it will feel weird......sorts like wearing your watch on the wrong wrist or carrying your wallet in a different pocket.
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im never really comfy carrying IWB. Im still trying to find a better IWB holster for my m&p shield.
i like kydex, but im not sure about it for IWB, leather is just so much more comfy. if i were carrying owb, it would be kydex...
I just got a Personal Security Systems "Compact Cut" for my Shield and I like it very much. my only concern is it's ride height but I understand that is adjustable with the "wings" that Steve mentioned in his previous post.
Steve, maybe you'd like to weigh in on the topic of whether the 2-piece or taco-style holster is more comfortable. and I'd also like you to highlight the differences between the Compact Cut and Standard regarding comfort IWB... :)
Your question as to whether a taco style or riveted 2 piece IWB would be more comfortable is a very subjective question which is probably why most answers so far have mainly been feedback on holsters which different folks have tried.
Something else that should be mentioned is that fact that you should really carry an IWB daily for a few weeks to really get an idea of it comfort. I say that because you have to give your body a chance to adjust to having the holster/gun there. Once your body gets adjusted to it you will no longer notice it, but until then it will feel weird......sorts like wearing your watch on the wrong wrist or carrying your wallet in a different pocket.
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I've been carrying big, heavy guns IWB in leather and Kydex for a few years. quite a few, actually, so I don't need recommendations how to do it.
but my Kydex experience has been mostly limited to the one-piece, folded "taco-style" of holster. my thread is only asking which type is more comfortable and any personal observations. but thanks for trying to help...
I've been carrying big, heavy guns IWB in leather and Kydex for a few years. quite a few, actually, so I don't need recommendations how to do it.
but my Kydex experience has been mostly limited to the one-piece, folded "taco-style" of holster. my thread is only asking which type is more comfortable and any personal observations. but thanks for trying to help...
I've been carrying either a 1911 or a full-size Beretta 92 with the thicker Brigadier slide in IWB rigs for about 10 years. I started out with a full-kydex Threat Solutions Consulting UCR (http://www.threatsolutions.com/IWBindex.html) rig, and found it fairly comfortable, but the smooth-backed kydex tended to slip around on my undershirt and the kydex belt clips tended to break within a few months (though Dave always replaced them). Now I use a Comp-Tac MTAC, and I'm pretty happy with it. I don't like the belt clips as well for comfort, but they are much more flexible and don't break. As an unexpected benefit, the leather backing tends to stay put better than the full kydex rig, and provides some additional comfort on long days. It has just enough give to provide some cushion.
Either way, I will never go back to 'taco-style' IWB rigs again. The wide pancake rigs just distribute the weight and bulk of the gun far better, which results (for me) in better concealment AND comfort.
I've been a Blade-Tech IWB user for the past 14 years. As a matter of fact I still have my original IWB holsters I bought from them. I have carried my Glock 17-19-31-32-22-23 in the same holsters without fail.
Comfort on the Blade-Tech:
It's more of a comfort to know I have my gun with me more than the holster is comfortable. It's a folded style piece of kydex that fits the shape of the gun. It doesn't spread the weight out and it usually puts pressure in very specific points.
With that being said, it keeps the weapon low, it retains the weapon securely (I don't perform acrobats while carrying) the draw is smooth and it conceals well.
If I were to do a 1-10 scale on comfort I'd give it a 4. For carry and conceal ability I'd give it a 9.
------------------------
Recently I decided to stray from what I know. Enter in RCS...
Comfort on the RCS:
Very comfortable. To me it spreads the weight of the holster and gun out over a larger area of your hip. There are no pressure points to comment on because it has such a wide mounting area.
The down side is that the RCS holds the weapon very high. Something that I consider a negative for me and my applications. It also cants the weapon out and away from my hip. Which in turn makes the top rear of the gun poke under my shirt.
The RCS retains the weapon securely. And I do mean securely. For me, when I draw my gun I don't want my pants following the gun.
For the scale, I'd give it a 9 on comfort but a 5 on conceal ability.
Another holster I have used quite a bit has been the Milt Sparks VMII. Because it isn't kydex I won't comment too much other than 9's across the board.
David, I agree on all points about the bladetech but I haven't had mine quite as long as you - I've only had mine for 12 years :p but it's still going strong...
and I agree on the VM2 - a P226 just disappears IWB with this holster and I can forget I'm wearing it for hours. but it's bulky and you need oversize pants. I actually prefer my Andrews Leather McDaniel II for wearing with normal size pants and a t-shirt or loose cover garment.
so now we have the two-piece riveted Kydex holsters, which I suppose was started by Raven Concealment, but now other players have entered the market (such as Personal Security Systems and others) and do quite well with their designs. and I take note that you have mentioned they seem to ride higher as well...
so maybe a better question would be what was the objective of this style/form/design change from the simple folded piece of Kydex with tension adjustment screws???
davidjinks
06-09-12, 14:13
My honest opinion on the design change:
An equal displacement of weight, better mounting styles, more options for rake/cant, more comfort oriented.
To me the new(er) holster designs are getting away from the old adage of being comforting as opposed to being comfortable.
Just my opinion...
David, I agree on all points about the bladetech but I haven't had mine quite as long as you - I've only had mine for 12 years :p but it's still going strong...
and I agree on the VM2 - a P226 just disappears IWB with this holster and I can forget I'm wearing it for hours. but it's bulky and you need oversize pants. I actually prefer my Andrews Leather McDaniel II for wearing with normal size pants and a t-shirt or loose cover garment.
so now we have the two-piece riveted Kydex holsters, which I suppose was started by Raven Concealment, but now other players have entered the market (such as Personal Security Systems and others) and do quite well with their designs. and I take note that you have mentioned they seem to ride higher as well...
so maybe a better question would be what was the objective of this style/form/design change from the simple folded piece of Kydex with tension adjustment screws???
Honestly, I think the game has changed. The leather pancake design was the go-to holster for deep concealment of fullsize guns for a long time. Now it's being made out of a better material.
The taco style has it's applications it's better at IMO. Appendix is one, overt dropped and offset Holsters are another.
But for concealment, you have two attachment points that sit more towards the "center" of the horizontal plane of the pistol. It's large and flattish, so when a belt threads and is tightened, it forces the gun into the body. This is true either IWB or OWB. The one group of people I hear complaints from are those who say "well, I don't like to wear my belt tight". Which is fine, but usually it's the belt itself that is the culprit I find.
You may hear the pancake design causes a "void" when IWB at the winged area near the eyelets. There is no getting around this. A taco style will also do this, because the pants and belt don't magically form around the pistol - they sort of blanket around it. So why not take advantage of that area?
The more you offset the belt attachment points, the lighter the pistol feels on your body. A good example is take a broomstick and hold it with just your pointer fingers, next to each other in the center. Now spread the fingers apart towards each end of the broomstick. The broomstick doesn't weigh any less, but it feels heavier when the fingers are closer together.
That's where the wings help. Plus they allow the user to adjust the cant. Want an extreme forward cant? Just adjust the IWB package. There are some who really prefer an extreme cant - which is understandable. The problem is, to build an extreme (20-25 degree) cant into the holster in it's base setting means that the holster by design will be very large. The more the gun is canted, the more space it takes up on the belt. So to even make this design work, you have to aggressively curve the edges to contour to the body. We've offered an extreme cant since Day 1, but it's honestly not a very good design. The better solution for someone who wants an extreme forward cant is to achieve it by adjusting external belt attachments.
That's where this new material we use on our Ultimate IWB Package comes into play and shines. If a user wants an extreme forward cant, or even a larger footprint, most makers will do this into the initial holster design. That means the extended size is two sheets of generally 0.080" kydex, for a total of 0.160". Kydex in itself is a stiffer material, so there is only a small amount of play.
The material we use is not kydex, and is much more rubbery, but stable enough to support any pistol and then some. It's about 0.05" thick, or about as thick as a piece of construction paper. And its considerably more durable than the Kydex solution, which is about 3x as thick and doesn't flex as much. This material will conform to your body, and actually remember that shape. It's thin profile feels almost non existent while IWB. So you have the advantage of further increasing the distance between attachment points on a pancake holster, without feeling like there's a cabinet full of Tupperware inside your pants.
And the material is durable. Really, a blade or extreme heat is the only thing that will hurt it. It's actually a pain in the ass to work with, since it's so tough to cut, polish, and form.
As to why I think the pancake is superior to the taco? The wider distance between attachment points and the forcing of the pistol into the body. You may hear that "it takes up too much belt real estate" (this was about the only complaint I read on our IWB package), but what else is someone looking for deep concealment going to be running on their strong side hip? Not mags, probably not knives or lights - considering they are carrying IWB. So that's a pretty open area. Plus, the actual soft loop attachment points together use only about 1.5" of actual belt real estate. So if there was a need to clip a knife or light on the strong side, just clip it over the area the holster is beneath the pants.
The idea is to make the holster seem like a natural extension of oneself. Basically increase the waist line by an inch or two without any other noticeable difference. The pancake style by design contours to the body, making it seem like it's part of it, when hidden under clothing. The taco style seems more like an extrusion, and tends to sag the belt/ pants more in the area it sits.
The best compliment I've received was a customer who got an early edition of our IWB package. He typically carries a fullsize gun with fullsize weapon light OWB. He put the IWB package on, tucked his shirt in over it, and went out to dinner with his wife for their anniversary. At one point, his wife thanked him for leaving his gun at home and dressing in a nice buttoned up tucked in collared shirt. He was of course wearing the fullsize gun with WML tucked under the shirt. The original story is on a thread on here under Tactical Gear, but that definitely brought a smile to my face.
If there's anything else specifically you want to talk about - just let me know. I'll be around the internet today on my phone, due to some down time throughout the day. I love talking Holsters, and everyone around me is sick of hearing about them.
The compact cut and standard cut for reference, since its been mentioned....
http://img.tapatalk.com/aefce9db-c378-1991.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/aefce9db-c3cc-9b36.jpg
Cant adjusted via IWB Package for reverse cant.
http://img.tapatalk.com/aefce9db-c457-83ac.jpg
Standard position....
http://img.tapatalk.com/aefce9db-c4ed-1ef2.jpg
I'll get some of us wearing the gear in different positions. Spot me a couple hours.
*My Internet and PC will be down for a few days, so my apologies on the low resolution pics and not blurring the company website. Mods - if it's a problem, just delete.
My honest opinion on the design change:
An equal displacement of weight, better mounting styles, more options for rake/cant, more comfort oriented.
To me the new(er) holster designs are getting away from the old adage of being comforting as opposed to being comfortable.
Just my opinion...
This is a perfect short version of what I typed. Nicely put, sir.
CaptainDooley
06-09-12, 20:57
Figured I'd chime in here (especially since some of my pics of my PSS are in use).
I wear kydex IWB every day for 16+ hours a day. I've done that for two or three years now, but only since March with Steve's new hardware. Until this new setup, I didn't really like it, but I didn't have a better option to carry an M&P FS9 (with TLR-1), so I suffered through it.
With Steve's new attachments, I don't even know the pistol is there most days. It's light, it stays in place, and it doesn't poke/prod me like my other setups did. It's a big rig, but the material he uses flexes and bends and fits my shape because of that. Seriously, if you've tried IWB kydex and it didn't work, but you want to try again - buy from Steve and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
A couple of other tips I've found:
1. Undershirts are a huge plus for IWB in general. I wore undershirts long before I carried because I sweat like a mofo (especially here in Texas), and it kept my shirts from being soaked and nasty before lunch. But, now that I IWB, it keeps my well stippled grip from digging into me (and my holster before I switched what I carry).
2. You may need a different belt than what you used OWB. I used a Wilderness tactical belt forever OWB and loved it - but I ended up nearly having to cut myself in half to get it to work when I was IWB. I swapped out to a biothane belt (webbing with a rubber-like substance over it) by Galco. Maxpedition also makes one and as of last week so does someone else (saw it on SSD). By belt is actually loose enough to hook my thumbs through most of the time and it holds the gun up great - the combo of it and Steve's new getup works great.
Anywho, that's my story. Here's all the pics of my setup - sorry, none of me wearing it - I get enough weird looks from the missus as it is...
http://kevindooley.net/images/New%20Holster/01.jpg
http://kevindooley.net/images/New%20Holster/02.jpg
http://kevindooley.net/images/New%20Holster/03.jpg
http://kevindooley.net/images/New%20Holster/04.jpg
http://kevindooley.net/images/New%20Holster/05.jpg
http://kevindooley.net/images/New%20Holster/06.jpg
http://kevindooley.net/images/New%20Holster/07.jpg
i don't think either style would be more comfortable...
that said i also don't think either is something you can't get used to.
i can only speak from the experience of having used a taco style kydex for appendix iwb. it was desperately uncomfortable at first. now it's so bearable i sleep in it frequently...
Honestly, I think the game has changed. The leather pancake design was the go-to holster for deep concealment of fullsize guns for a long time. Now it's being made out of a better material.
The taco style has it's applications it's better at IMO. Appendix is one, overt dropped and offset Holsters are another.
But for concealment, you have two attachment points that sit more towards the "center" of the horizontal plane of the pistol. It's large and flattish, so when a belt threads and is tightened, it forces the gun into the body. This is true either IWB or OWB. The one group of people I hear complaints from are those who say "well, I don't like to wear my belt tight". Which is fine, but usually it's the belt itself that is the culprit I find.
You may hear the pancake design causes a "void" when IWB at the winged area near the eyelets. There is no getting around this. A taco style will also do this, because the pants and belt don't magically form around the pistol - they sort of blanket around it. So why not take advantage of that area?
The more you offset the belt attachment points, the lighter the pistol feels on your body. A good example is take a broomstick and hold it with just your pointer fingers, next to each other in the center. Now spread the fingers apart towards each end of the broomstick. The broomstick doesn't weigh any less, but it feels heavier when the fingers are closer together.
That's where the wings help. Plus they allow the user to adjust the cant. Want an extreme forward cant? Just adjust the IWB package. There are some who really prefer an extreme cant - which is understandable. The problem is, to build an extreme (20-25 degree) cant into the holster in it's base setting means that the holster by design will be very large. The more the gun is canted, the more space it takes up on the belt. So to even make this design work, you have to aggressively curve the edges to contour to the body. We've offered an extreme cant since Day 1, but it's honestly not a very good design. The better solution for someone who wants an extreme forward cant is to achieve it by adjusting external belt attachments.
That's where this new material we use on our Ultimate IWB Package comes into play and shines. If a user wants an extreme forward cant, or even a larger footprint, most makers will do this into the initial holster design. That means the extended size is two sheets of generally 0.080" kydex, for a total of 0.160". Kydex in itself is a stiffer material, so there is only a small amount of play.
The material we use is not kydex, and is much more rubbery, but stable enough to support any pistol and then some. It's about 0.05" thick, or about as thick as a piece of construction paper. And its considerably more durable than the Kydex solution, which is about 3x as thick and doesn't flex as much. This material will conform to your body, and actually remember that shape. It's thin profile feels almost non existent while IWB. So you have the advantage of further increasing the distance between attachment points on a pancake holster, without feeling like there's a cabinet full of Tupperware inside your pants.
And the material is durable. Really, a blade or extreme heat is the only thing that will hurt it. It's actually a pain in the ass to work with, since it's so tough to cut, polish, and form.
As to why I think the pancake is superior to the taco? The wider distance between attachment points and the forcing of the pistol into the body. You may hear that "it takes up too much belt real estate" (this was about the only complaint I read on our IWB package), but what else is someone looking for deep concealment going to be running on their strong side hip? Not mags, probably not knives or lights - considering they are carrying IWB. So that's a pretty open area. Plus, the actual soft loop attachment points together use only about 1.5" of actual belt real estate. So if there was a need to clip a knife or light on the strong side, just clip it over the area the holster is beneath the pants.
The idea is to make the holster seem like a natural extension of oneself. Basically increase the waist line by an inch or two without any other noticeable difference. The pancake style by design contours to the body, making it seem like it's part of it, when hidden under clothing. The taco style seems more like an extrusion, and tends to sag the belt/ pants more in the area it sits.
The best compliment I've received was a customer who got an early edition of our IWB package. He typically carries a fullsize gun with fullsize weapon light OWB. He put the IWB package on, tucked his shirt in over it, and went out to dinner with his wife for their anniversary. At one point, his wife thanked him for leaving his gun at home and dressing in a nice buttoned up tucked in collared shirt. He was of course wearing the fullsize gun with WML tucked under the shirt. The original story is on a thread on here under Tactical Gear, but that definitely brought a smile to my face.
If there's anything else specifically you want to talk about - just let me know. I'll be around the internet today on my phone, due to some down time throughout the day. I love talking Holsters, and everyone around me is sick of hearing about them.
The compact cut and standard cut for reference, since its been mentioned....
http://img.tapatalk.com/aefce9db-c378-1991.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/aefce9db-c3cc-9b36.jpg
Steve, thanks for joining this discussion. ;) Your points, and others', help shed some light on the pancake vs. taco style, applications they are better at, their comfort, and utility. it all makes sense to me now. but just to confirm - you feel the Kydex pancake is better suited/more comfortable to IWB while the single piece, folded "taco-style" may be better in certain applications OWB.
and I'm confused which one you are talking about in this case - "But for concealment, you have two attachment points that sit more towards the "center" of the horizontal plane of the pistol... "
my experience with the taco style has been that it rides lower compared to the two-piece kydex pancake. I see that that can be adjusted in the kydex pancake by use of "wings" and I like that concept - adjustability, which the two-piece pancake has over the taco-style, is a plus in my book, as is spreading the contact surface over a larger area to avoid hotspots. I am now a believer and convert to the concept. :)
and thanks for addressing the Compact vs. Full Cut in your holsters. as you know, I have the Compact Cut version of your holster for the M&P Shield and I like it lots. it's so comfortable I forget I have it on.
however, being my first holster of this style I wonder why ALL holsters of this type are not made in the Compact Cut rather than the standard cut?..
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that this works with the Shield because this is a small gun but these holsters ride higher above the belt and a bigger gun needs more "footprint" and support below the belt, correct? otherwise, why wouldn't this be your standard cut?
I recognize the "wings" add height and cant adjustability so expect an order for a set of these if they can be added to the Shield holster...
Steve, thanks for joining this discussion. ;) Your points, and others', help shed some light on the pancake vs. taco style, applications they are better at, their comfort, and utility. it all makes sense to me now. but just to confirm - you feel the Kydex pancake is better suited/more comfortable to IWB while the single piece, folded "taco-style" may be better in certain applications OWB.
and I'm confused which one you are talking about in this case - "But for concealment, you have two attachment points that sit more towards the "center" of the horizontal plane of the pistol... "
my experience with the taco style has been that it rides lower compared to the two-piece kydex pancake. I see that that can be adjusted in the kydex pancake by use of "wings" and I like that concept - adjustability, which the two-piece pancake has over the taco-style, is a plus in my book, as is spreading the contact surface over a larger area to avoid hotspots. I am now a believer and convert to the concept. :)
and thanks for addressing the Compact vs. Full Cut in your holsters. as you know, I have the Compact Cut version of your holster for the M&P Shield and I like it lots. it's so comfortable I forget I have it on.
however, being my first holster of this style I wonder why ALL holsters of this type are not made in the Compact Cut rather than the standard cut?..
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that this works with the Shield because this is a small gun but these holsters ride higher above the belt and a bigger gun needs more "footprint" and support below the belt, correct? otherwise, why wouldn't this be your standard cut?
I recognize the "wings" add height and cant adjustability so expect an order for a set of these if they can be added to the Shield holster...
Yep, I'm referring to Taco designs having a closer center of attachment points. If you look at our Holsters pictured above, the attachment points have 5" - 8" between them (depending on belt attachments used). If you look at the Taco design pictured in this thread, the attachment points are probably about an inch apart.
The taco style is also ideal, in my opinion, for appendix IWB as well. It's less material, and when made a specific way fits perfect into that area between the crotch and the thigh.
Yes, a taco (depending on how its made) can naturally ride lower. When you offset the kydex on the trigger guard side, if you go too low you prevent a full firing grip - because kydex is in the way. It's the reason you see this area notched out on neutral cant pancake Holsters. Otherwise a neutral cant holster would need to ride incredibly high to clear room for a firing grip.
Remember though, for IWB you are limited in how low you can drop a holster before the belt line interferes with a full firing grip. So for IWB I consider it a wash between the two. OWB however, something like a Safariland will be able to sit much lower. Simply because there's no offset kydex on the trigger guard side to prevent a grip on the pistol.
As to why not making the Compact Cut on everything - you nailed it. The kydex helps stabilize the platform. Same reason it's a good idea to keep a little bit of "dead space" Kydex beneath the muzzle on guns like the G19, G26, M&Pc, etc. It helps tuck in and stabilize the grip heavy gun.
So we reserve the Compact Cut for lower capacity, lightweight pistols (Kahrs, Keltec, Shield, etc). Since they aren't high capacity, grip heavy guns, they don't need that material beneath the muzzle to stabilize the rig. The idea for that cut is OWB, high riding. Basically hide it under a standard t-shirt.
You do lose belt attachment capability with the Compact Cut, since it lacks the 4th eyelet on each side. So for the Shield IWB, I'd recommend the standard cut. If running the Compact Cut IWB, then I strongly recommend the wings over attaching Soft Loops direct. It becomes too easy for the holster to flop out, since it lacks the material to stabilize it. The wings and vertical towers attached to the soft loops help with this a bit, but the standard cut is ideal.
If you plan on running the Shield IWB primarily, it's no problem to swap your Holsters out. Just shoot me an email. We can always swap back as well.
The Shield is in a very grey area, as far as size and role. But in short, if you buy from us - I recommend the following...
OWB - for minimal footprint, get the Compact Cut. Easier to hide in a t-shirt.
IWB - I recommend the Standard Cut. More attachment capabilities and more stabilization.
In my opinion, the Shield works well OWB, but truly shines IWB. It's so thin, it's hard to get it to pull as close to the body while OWB as it should, because any holster maker will be limited by the belt loops. For IWB though, the thin width is really taken advantage of. That gun truly disappears.
If you want it to ride lower IWB, the IWB Package will do that, but so will a pair of kydex overclips. By design, they allow about 1/2" lower ride height over soft loops. They are also Tuckable without the need of offset wings. You lose the wide range of adjustment though. This configuration is how I carry my Shield IWB***...
http://img.tapatalk.com/aefcfef9-fbb3-89db.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/aefcfef9-fbcb-0da5.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/aefcfef9-fbde-4d0f.jpg
I always use this employee as an example because he wears a 30" pant size. If he can hide something, than I know it works. As an aside, his EDC is a G21 OWB with 2 mags OWB. But this is the Shield in a standard cut OWB. Shows how it tucks the pistol up into the body nicely so as not to print. My apologies for the crappy pic, but it's the only one I have on me.
http://img.tapatalk.com/aefcfef9-fc86-bafd.jpg
***The pictured IWB Overhooks are by custom request only. We have an Enhanced version on the webstore. This version will eventually break, and are considered an expendable item (like magazines). Therefore, it went against our Lifetime warranty. However, I still greatly prefer the original IWB Overhooks, as do many others, so we will make them by request. Just know they do not carry a Lifetime warranty.
Yep, I'm referring to Taco designs having a closer center of attachment points. If you look at our Holsters pictured above, the attachment points have 5" - 8" between them (depending on belt attachments used). If you look at the Taco design pictured in this thread, the attachment points are probably about an inch apart.
The taco style is also ideal, in my opinion, for appendix IWB as well. It's less material, and when made a specific way fits perfect into that area between the crotch and the thigh.
Yes, a taco (depending on how its made) can naturally ride lower. When you offset the kydex on the trigger guard side, if you go too low you prevent a full firing grip - because kydex is in the way. It's the reason you see this area notched out on neutral cant pancake Holsters. Otherwise a neutral cant holster would need to ride incredibly high to clear room for a firing grip.
Remember though, for IWB you are limited in how low you can drop a holster before the belt line interferes with a full firing grip. So for IWB I consider it a wash between the two. OWB however, something like a Safariland will be able to sit much lower. Simply because there's no offset kydex on the trigger guard side to prevent a grip on the pistol.
As to why not making the Compact Cut on everything - you nailed it. The kydex helps stabilize the platform. Same reason it's a good idea to keep a little bit of "dead space" Kydex beneath the muzzle on guns like the G19, G26, M&Pc, etc. It helps tuck in and stabilize the grip heavy gun.
So we reserve the Compact Cut for lower capacity, lightweight pistols (Kahrs, Keltec, Shield, etc). Since they aren't high capacity, grip heavy guns, they don't need that material beneath the muzzle to stabilize the rig. The idea for that cut is OWB, high riding. Basically hide it under a standard t-shirt.
You do lose belt attachment capability with the Compact Cut, since it lacks the 4th eyelet on each side. So for the Shield IWB, I'd recommend the standard cut. If running the Compact Cut IWB, then I strongly recommend the wings over attaching Soft Loops direct. It becomes too easy for the holster to flop out, since it lacks the material to stabilize it. The wings and vertical towers attached to the soft loops help with this a bit, but the standard cut is ideal.
If you plan on running the Shield IWB primarily, it's no problem to swap your Holsters out. Just shoot me an email. We can always swap back as well.
The Shield is in a very grey area, as far as size and role. But in short, if you buy from us - I recommend the following...
OWB - for minimal footprint, get the Compact Cut. Easier to hide in a t-shirt.
IWB - I recommend the Standard Cut. More attachment capabilities and more stabilization.
In my opinion, the Shield works well OWB, but truly shines IWB. It's so thin, it's hard to get it to pull as close to the body while OWB as it should, because any holster maker will be limited by the belt loops. For IWB though, the thin width is really taken advantage of. That gun truly disappears.
If you want it to ride lower IWB, the IWB Package will do that, but so will a pair of kydex overclips. By design, they allow about 1/2" lower ride height over soft loops. They are also Tuckable without the need of offset wings. You lose the wide range of adjustment though.
wow, two things are immediately apparent to me - you really put a lot of thought and analysis into your holster designs rather than some of the newer "press and rivet" makers who appear to basically copy existing products.
and two, you care enough about your products and customers to spend a lot of time to make sure they have answers to their questions.
and maybe three - you are willing to discuss strengths of other products that you don't make - that speaks volumes about your confidence and credibility right there...
to answer your question, I do wear my Compact Cut Shield holster IWB. I switched the Kydex OWB loops from my holster to the mag carrier and use the leather mag carrier loops on my holster like the common rubber ones. it is very secure on my 1.5" Wilderness belt but I'm still looking to see if there is a better solution. maybe your "wings" would be the answer...
without having the Standard Cut here to compare, I can't see how much better it might be than this one but I can say that for my use, this works as I expect and need it to.
thank you for coming here and taking the time to explain all this. you've answered my questions and shown me that there actually is a difference between makers. with your attention to detail, great prices, much shorter lead times, and outstanding customer service I personally see no reason to look anywhere else for my future holsters. good luck...
thanks but what does this have to do with my question - which TYPE of holster is more comfortable, 2-piece riveted or folded taco???
I have examples of each style that work well and examples of each that are unwearable except as instruments of torture. Comfort depends on how the holster is executed, your body type, how you dress, and a lot of other things. For example, the Fricke Archangel is fast as all get-out, it conceals well, and it's secure. But it gnaws holes in my body if I don't wear a T-shirt and briefs, so it's a cool-weather item for me. In hot weather, I wear a BladeTech Nano.
An expensive holster from a good maker will probably be more comfortable than a cheap no-name rig, but from there it's personal preference. It will also last longer and you can recover more of your purchase price if you don't like it. The unfortunate truth is that most serious pistol shooters end up with a box of holsters that they've tried and rejected for whatever reason.
Sorry I can't be more helpful.
Okie John
rather than trash the other thread I want to start a separate discussion.
for Kydex IWB, what do people find most comfortable - the two-piece riveted style (clamshell) with wide wings like Raven? or the single folded piece (taco-style) with a more narrow profile like the bladetech?
also, I'm looking for something that will let the gun sit lower than the current clamshells I own...
My input and recommendation for a surprisingly comfortable IWB holster:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=100072&highlight=garret
wow, two things are immediately apparent to me - you really put a lot of thought and analysis into your holster designs rather than some of the newer "press and rivet" makers who appear to basically copy existing products.
and two, you care enough about your products and customers to spend a lot of time to make sure they have answers to their questions.
and maybe three - you are willing to discuss strengths of other products that you don't make - that speaks volumes about your confidence and credibility right there...
to answer your question, I do wear my Compact Cut Shield holster IWB. I switched the Kydex OWB loops from my holster to the mag carrier and use the leather mag carrier loops on my holster like the common rubber ones. it is very secure on my 1.5" Wilderness belt but I'm still looking to see if there is a better solution. maybe your "wings" would be the answer...
without having the Standard Cut here to compare, I can't see how much better it might be than this one but I can say that for my use, this works as I expect and need it to.
thank you for coming here and taking the time to explain all this. you've answered my questions and shown me that there actually is a difference between makers. with your attention to detail, great prices, much shorter lead times, and outstanding customer service I personally see no reason to look anywhere else for my future holsters. good luck...
There's a big difference in makers, and I'm coming to learn that more and more. It's just most don't realize it, much like 95% of gun owners won't realize the difference between a Bushmaster and a Colt. I use to think out stuff was the shit when we put our webstore up a couple years ago. But really, I'm embarrassed by a lot of the early stuff (if you have something that looks and functions like crap, I'll update it free of charge).
The thing is, I would never call out another maker, no matter how bad the quality. Even if they claim it to be the best thing ever. Sometimes I will talk about weird claims some makers make, but never really to any company directly.
I'm starting to realize that kydex work is like anything else. For example, most anyone can build an AR, but IraqGunz talks about some stuff I have no idea about even though I have functional builds. Anyone can draw a person, but an artist will do a much better job. I read somewhere that a person needs 10,000 hours of doing something to consider themselves proficient at it, and i absolutely agree.
About a year ago I took a step back and focused on the product more than the business side, and it's paying off. We may only have 400 or so Facebook likes, but our quality and amount of product heading out the door is higher than some companies with thousands of fans. I was recently told by a high speed cool dude that we are the best kept secret in firearm accessories, and that was a huge compliment.
Another unique thing we do, and is probably responsible for our smaller footprint in the community, is offer dealer pricing, and even rebranding. I've taken a hard look at the companies I admire and how they do things. I am a fan of the platform, but I am getting more picky about what impresses me.
For example, Raven Concealment took an innovative idea and revolutionized concealed carry kydex. But more so, they have grown by leaps and bounds and still maintained a perfect level of quality. That's quite the feat. You're only as good as you're weakest link. And training people to a high level of quality is a huuuuge obstacle.
Milt Sparks is a good example of how it can be smart to turn down business. Sometimes it's better to not swamp yourself in sales if you can't keep up.
Safariland is still unmatched on their simple, yet effective, duty Holsters. Nothing shiny or fancy, just plain works. Anyone who works with Kydex should give a nod to Safariland.
I think G-Code took the idea of Safariland a bit further, and make excellent products. I really like their removable cowl holster, that allows the holster to be configured to accept a weapon light.
Although I'm not the biggest fan of this design, and they aren't the inventors of it, Crossbreed did a great job of getting quality concealment Holsters on gunshop shelves. Again, no easy feat.
I still think BladeTech has some great designs at very affordable prices. The Glock Combat gear is the best bang for your buck as well, IMHO. Great cost effective design.
When you get into the smaller custom kydex, or even leather, shops - quality is all over the place. The features that matter are hard to spot without actually handling the holster - which makes it tougher on consumers. In the kydex pancake market, I still think Raven sets the standard for proper materials used, smooth draw, fit and finish. I like to think we do a great job in all categories, but I'm not going to throw down the gauntlet with the other small shops (at least not yet - get your weight up now, suckas! Haha). Although I don't agree with some of their practices, I think Cane and Derby make a very nice holster. They have a high level of fit and finish from what I've seen. I also like that they have a lot of product support (belt attachments, different mag carrier designs, etc) - since these things become important to customers down the road.
Honestly, in just the kydex pancake market, there are tons of options. Every week a new company pops up. It's definitely good for consumers. Just take the time to research what you are looking for in a kydex holster - lest you get turned off by the medium by a poor example of it.
There's a lot of great companies I didn't list, and it would be hard to list them all. I'm sure I don't know a 1/4 of the existing companies. If you have a holster that is formed properly, has silky smooth edges (rough / sharp edges are a quick way to mess up leather car seats), a smooth draw, a dependable attachment system, durable hardware, and good product support - then you chose a good company. If you got a holster that is uncomfortable, poorly finished, or is too tight / too loose to be useable - than take the maker at their word and ask for a replacement or refund. I say this because I honestly believe this design is perfect for concealed carry when done properly.
As far as copying a design - the game has changed. I think if makers objectively look at all things, the kydex pancake design is a very strong option for concealed carry. But there's a difference between taking the concept and putting your own spin on it versus trying to build a perfect clone or selling it as a counterfeit - name and all. A good example - when Troy released their TRX Extreme rail, it revolutionized free float handguards. So you had other companies giving their version of it. Though they are all the same concept, they look and function differently. If a company made an exact replica of the TRX, then I can see a problem there. But instead, companies are branching out with their version of a great concept. Which is great for the consumer.
I'll end my brainstorm and exit the thread. Took a half day and just had a couple micro brews over dinner, so I'm getting way too chatty. Haha.
I think it's a good idea for readers to post their IWB carry rig, and detail why they prefer it.
Cheers.
I think it's a good idea for readers to post their IWB carry rig, and detail why they prefer it.
Well in honor of Steve's most-excellent post, my every day IWB carry rig is none other than a PSS holster for a G19, carried at 4-4:30 with soft loops. Awesome and perfect for me because: retention is excellent... I can switch between IWB and OWB relatively easily if needed... the design lets me adjust cant/height accordingly, since I carry IWB at 4:30 but OWB at 3:00... the flatter shapes fits my body perfectly in either of those positions... and I have 100% trust in Steve and PSS based on their willingness to help me with a delivery issue that wasn't even their fault.
Only gripe is the soft loops which I've discovered don't quite align with my pants loops, so the tension on my belt wants to pull the pants loops out. Easy fix... I'll switch out for another one of Steve's attachment options soon.
ra2bach, sorry for not answering your question earlier. Thought the slightly off topic feedback had value, but now realize you wanted a direct and specific answer. For me, I'll only IWB with the pancake type kydex. I admit my only taco-style experience is a mag carrier, but for many of the reasons others have posted, I have no interest in even trying the taco-style over a PSS or RCS (of which I have both). They're just too effective for me to even bother.
mkmckinley
07-02-12, 21:06
I've tried a lot of holsters and the Bladetech Nano is the one I've settled on. IT really does seem like a user preference thing but the Nano is stable enough to allow a consistent draw while allowing me to shift it to where I want it if I'm sitting in the car or something. I tried a Crossbread and while it was very well made it didn't feel comfortable while sitting. I have a nice Kramer horsehide that's a little too bulky. The Nano doesn't add almost any bulk.
For an example of how deep you can conceal a service pistol, the picture below is titled "spot the Glock 30 on the off duty Customs Agent".
http://img.tapatalk.com/63795c32-b868-df88.jpg
**I took this pic without his permission (to get a natural stance), but later got his permission to use it.
For an example of how deep you can conceal a service pistol, the picture below is titled "spot the Glock 30 on the off duty Customs Agent".
http://img.tapatalk.com/63795c32-b868-df88.jpg
**I took this pic without his permission (to get a natural stance), but later got his permission to use it.
Personally, I'd consider a G30 more of a BUG than a service pistol. But your point is the same even with full frame weapons. With the right holster and attire the gun can be invisible. And no, I can't tell where he is carrying in the photo. :)
SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS
07-04-12, 08:35
Personally, I'd consider a G30 more of a BUG than a service pistol. But your point is the same even with full frame weapons. With the right holster and attire the gun can be invisible. And no, I can't tell where he is carrying in the photo. :)
I would hazard a guess and say it's being carried just to the right of his centerline in the small of the back area. You can see a belt clip attached to his belt and trousers with nothing visible outside the shirt and a dark outline underneath the shirt in that area. I avoid wearing white shirts, especially thin ones, during non jacket weather for fear someone would see my off duty piece, no matter what size gun I'm carrying.
rather than trash the other thread I want to start a separate discussion.
for Kydex IWB, what do people find most comfortable - the two-piece riveted style (clamshell) with wide wings like Raven? or the single folded piece (taco-style) with a more narrow profile like the bladetech?
also, I'm looking for something that will let the gun sit lower than the current clamshells I own...
I regularly use a standard cut Raven Phantom worn at 3:00 to carry a Glock 19 IWB using the older kydex clips, which are now discontinued, on a 1.75" Galco leather belt. I wear a thin cotton t-shirt between the holster and my body.
I also own, but no longer use, Blade Tech IWBs and a Comp-tac CTAC.
I find the Raven to be more comfortable than the Blade Tech. I think the reasons are threefold. One reason is that the surface of the Raven that is toward my body is shaped to fit my body. Such is not the case with the Blade Tech. Also I think that the Blade Tech being thicker means that as I tighten my belt I'm pushing a relatively thick object into my side. The Raven being thinner allows the belt to be tightened without as much digging into my side as with the Blade Tech. The third reason is that the Raven is more stable than the Blade Tech because of the Raven's wide wings. It doesn't move around as much so there's less friction and less potential for bunching or pinching compared to the Blade Tech.
Personally, I'd consider a G30 more of a BUG than a service pistol. But your point is the same even with full frame weapons. With the right holster and attire the gun can be invisible. And no, I can't tell where he is carrying in the photo. :)
That is true. I quickly worded it, but wanted it to be clear that it was a service caliber double stack autoloader. Should have just said that.
SpyderMan2k4
07-04-12, 22:36
I have a raven that i only use for owb. I tried iwb but it just doesnt work for me. For iwb ive gor a crossbreed that i love. Comfort of leather, speed and rigidity of kydex
Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
I regularly use a standard cut Raven Phantom worn at 3:00 to carry a Glock 19 IWB using the older kydex clips, which are now discontinued, on a 1.75" Galco leather belt. I wear a thin cotton t-shirt between the holster and my body.
I also own, but no longer use, Blade Tech IWBs and a Comp-tac CTAC.
I find the Raven to be more comfortable than the Blade Tech. I think the reasons are threefold. One reason is that the surface of the Raven that is toward my body is shaped to fit my body. Such is not the case with the Blade Tech. Also I think that the Blade Tech being thicker means that as I tighten my belt I'm pushing a relatively thick object into my side. The Raven being thinner allows the belt to be tightened without as much digging into my side as with the Blade Tech. The third reason is that the Raven is more stable than the Blade Tech because of the Raven's wide wings. It doesn't move around as much so there's less friction and less potential for bunching or pinching compared to the Blade Tech.
great post. this is the type of response I was looking for...
I have a raven that i only use for owb. I tried iwb but it just doesnt work for me. For iwb ive gor a crossbreed that i love. Comfort of leather, speed and rigidity of kydex
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can you explain why the Raven doesn't work for IWB a little more in depth?
SpyderMan2k4
07-05-12, 12:41
can you explain why the Raven doesn't work for IWB a little more in depth?
Sorry, i should have been more clear. It technically will work, but ive had a hard time finding a configuration that wasnt uncomfortable (i realize carrying a gun isnt supposed to be comfortable, but it shouldnt be bad either.) When adjusting the height to where i prefer it, the length of it caused me problems and jabbed my hip and leg. Im sure it works great for some people and they dont mind it, and i love it for owb, however FOR ME there are better iwb alternatives.
Note: the guns i carry iwb dont have weaponlights, thus have many more holster options. If i were going to carry iwb with a light, id find a way to make the raven more comfortable to use, because there arent a ton of other good options out there (unless companies started producing more. I havent holster shopped for about a year and a half)
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I know that, in my case, Raven and similar designs (Atomic Dog, currently PSS) simply don't have enough curvature in them to NOT become a kydex teeter-totter over my hip. No matter what, if I put one of those IWB and cinch down a belt to appropriate tightness, there's gaps at the fore and aft and I get what feels like a minor hip-pointer ( http://www.google.com/search?q=hip-pointer&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=y9r1T7PuE-bi0QHdwZ3lBg&ved=0CFsQsAQ&biw=1680&bih=867) where the center of the holster rests against my body in about 10min. I can chalk it up to having birthin'-hips; the holster design is not to blame.
I've tried wing-type arrangements, but the basic shape of the hoster itself prevents that from being effective.
I've considered attempting to reshape the holster, but am honestly leery of doing that on the basis of being unwilling to risk trashing an otherwise damned good OWB holster that I use for that specific purpose.
I also see sending something like that back to be futile, given that me showing up at the shop for a fitting is about as likely to happen as me geting kicked to death by a mule; how can something like that be reworked, or a new one customized, if I'm not there? Again, not a blot on the holster-makers; trying to fit EVERYbody is logistically unsupportable.
My solution was the Comp-Tac Minotaur hybrid, which worked out great, though it sacrificed a measure of retention....which is to say that there was no tactile snap to reholstering, not that I ever had problems with the gun working its way out...and the possibility of WML unless it's winter (no-kidding cover-garment) or I'm overt (classes), which is when I just go OWB.
Comfort on the RCS:
Very comfortable. To me it spreads the weight of the holster and gun out over a larger area of your hip. There are no pressure points to comment on because it has such a wide mounting area.
The down side is that the RCS holds the weapon very high. Something that I consider a negative for me and my applications. It also cants the weapon out and away from my hip. Which in turn makes the top rear of the gun poke under my shirt.
The RCS retains the weapon securely. And I do mean securely. For me, when I draw my gun I don't want my pants following the gun.
For the scale, I'd give it a 9 on comfort but a 5 on conceal ability.
Have you tried any of our belt loop options that allow you to control the ride height? We do not recommend mounting the holster so low that a firing grip cannot be established, but we have number of options that gives the user flexibility in controlling the ride height and cant of their holster.
RCS pioneered the offset/tuckable wings for our style of Kydex holsters. Ours are made of a flexible material (not Kydex) that is extremely durable, but still forms around the body. The struts on ours are now made of the same material as our OWB loops, which is extremely durable and includes raised tabs on the area where the soft loop mounts. This stops the loop from "spinning" once it is tightened down.
Another feature ours has to further increase the adjustment options is that the wing itself can be flipped over to slightly adjust the ride height settings. Rather than just having three or four holes on one piece to adjust, you get the same here but also the option of flipping the wing to provide another three or four settings that are different than the first.
This provides 6-8 adjustments per side and can create 36-64 different combinations of ride height and cant. I haven't found anybody yet who can't find one of the 36 combos to work for them. :D
Here are our new struts:
http://www.ravenconcealment.com/image/cache/data/TuckableSoftLoops-500x500.jpg
And the complete IWB Offset/Tuckable Soft Loop package (note, the struts in this picture are outdated):
http://www.ravenconcealment.com/accessories/iwb-modular-accessories/iwb-eclipse-modular-accessories-iwb-offset-wings
http://www.ravenconcealment.com/image/cache/data/IWBOffsetWings-500x500-500x500.jpg
tvfreakarms
07-09-12, 03:42
I just found this holster. It seems just like a Serpa. And from what i read about serpas, i'm not sure if this version is any better.
I'm looking for a holster for my xdm 5.25 and glock 19 g4 to carry at a gun range.
But what are you thoughts? Does anyone know or owns one?
It seems they don't make it for lefties!
As for the safariland ALS seems also similar to the serpas. At least they make them for left handed shooters.
Uncle Mikes Reflex Holsters (http://www.uncle-mikes.com/products/reflex_holsters.html)
Safariland 6377 (http://www.opticsplanet.com/safariland-6377-als-belt-holster-stx-tac-black-left-hand-6377-283-132.html)
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