Issue with trying to find the best of both worlds

[dh6205]

OK,

So i have some war money coming in 2 weeks and I've been banging my head against the wall trying to figure out what I want in my AR. Now I know that what I'm asking for is usually stupid to do, a general purpose battle rifle that also can double as a precision shooter.

I had a 14.5 mid length carbine before and I liked it but sold it off. Now I'm looking at specifically 2 options I've narrowed down to.

1:
Larue Predatar 5.56 16"
pws sm556 comp/supressor
troy front rear buis w/ tritium
larue sling mounts (swivel for moe stock etc)
acog army optic 4x32 green illum w/ mount
aimpoint micro t1 w/ mount
12 magpul pmag 30rd

2:
bcm 16"ss410 w/midwest ssg2 12"
psa lower complete w/ moe edition
bcm bcg mpi auto
bcm gunfighter mod 4
pws sm556 comp/supressor
geissele ssa trigger (or s2s.... anyone used this yet cause i'm interested)
larue sling mounts same as above
troy front rear buis w/tritium
acog army optic 4x32 green illum w/mount
aimpoint micro t1 w/mount
12 magpul pmag

have a surefire tan scout 600c i think thats the right one. as you can see most of the stuff is uniform to each option. i just can't get over which one will meet both my needs.

1: shot the larue obr and loved it except for the 10 moa rail system, but when we were doing extreme long range shooting on this weapon system we weren't banking our heads like shooting a longbow so i get it at least. so yes i definitely know that larue is an amazing manufacturer and i'm literally like 30 away from mark where i'm based. love the light rig of the predatar and love the fact it gets sub moa. but i haven't shot this rig and don't know how much it expands when heating up and to what level (2... 3... or more moa?). i figure it'll cool down quickly as being lw barrel but i just don't know. so weight and accuracy are awesome. also, i get military discount so when i priced out each they are comparable to within a couple hundred dollars which really is nothing.

2- i would love to build up and pick and choose which things i'd like on my own rig and that is a major plus for me on the bcm build. but i've never shot the ss410 barrel and i'm a little scared that my picks will not optimize the rifle to its full potential. i do like that it's 1/8 twist as well as the predatar if i'm not mistaken. it's middle of the road and allows me to go from light to heavier rouds without too much of an adjustment. had a 1/7 and liked it but want to try 1/8 now. also recognize this will be heavier, not really concerned unless this thing comes in at 11 lbs or something crazy. but what i want to know from anyone here is can i have from this bcm build a consistent 1.5 moa rifle or is that too much? i understand that i'll be buying or loading rounds to make it so but i'm just unable to find anyone within a 100 miles of me that either has either of these rigs or will let me shoot em so i can get a feel for what i want. oh the other plus is i think the ss410 essentially doubles the life of the barrel compared to the predatar.

so please any constructive criticism or advice would be immensely helpful as i'll be pulling the trigger on this project very soon and would like to know that i don't blow several thousand on something that i essentially like but didn't want. i know i'm asking for the best of both worlds but i would really like to have a very accurate recce type weapons system that i can run pretty hard and maintain tight groups.

i know both are great weapons and i've also looked at other like noveske, kac, centurion and others but i like these 2 specifically. very much like bcm's price and quality. their attention to detail is amazing and larue's is as well.

i know i'm new to this site but your experience helps me to become an informed buyer and also a better shooter. so thank you for the assistance.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

Out of the two options listed, I would go with the PredatAR. If you had listed the PredatOBR, I would personally take that over either of the options listed. It seems to be the factory option for what you want out of a rifle, and will come with factory support as well.

[Nightvisionary]

Discussing the choices you have listed at present is purely an academic exercise because neither are available from the manufacturer. BCM is not taking any further orders at this time and I have read on a Larue industry forum that they are at least 6 months behind.

[Cameron]

The BCM upper he is looking at (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BCM%2DURG%2DMID16%2DSS410%2DSS12G2&CartID=1) shows that it is in stock, and ready to ship...

Cameron

[dh6205]

The BCM upper he is looking at (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BCM%2DURG%2DMID16%2DSS410%2DSS12G2&CartID=1) shows that it is in stock, and ready to ship...

Cameron

Thank you. As I recall the parts I listed for the build were in stock and available tuo ship. As for larue I spoke with a rep last week and he told me 14 to 17 weeks which I somewhat assumed. he also suggested the predatobr which I'm considering but I think that is a terrible name though for marketing purposes.

[dh6205]

Out of the two options listed, I would go with the PredatAR. If you had listed the PredatOBR, I would personally take that over either of the options listed. It seems to be the factory option for what you want out of a rifle, and will come with factory support as well.

Yes I should have listed that option. Also the rep at larue suggested the same. Need to consider wait time now as a reality.

[hotbiggun42]

but I think that is a terrible name though for marketing purposes.

I do not follow what does this mean? I would buy the LaRue but either would be a great rifle. Dont forget Noveske in your decision.

[strambo]

I think "precision" is overrated esp. for a 5.56 carbine. I'd get a standard (non-stainless) barrel 16" mid-length either a DD or a BCM (or Noveske) for just one do-it-all carbine.


From a precision standpoint: let's say a chrome barrel (with ammo it likes) will do 1.5 MOA (many will do better). That is 9" groups at 600 yards...way more mechanical accuracy potential than a typical shooter or any combat/SHTF situation would ever call for. If you want more precision than that, you need to specialize into purpose made precision rifle. Otherwise (my opinion), you pay too much in cost and/or weight and reduced barrel life for the slightly more precise 5.56 gun.

[dh6205]

I think "precision" is overrated esp. for a 5.56 carbine. I'd get a standard (non-stainless) barrel 16" mid-length either a DD or a BCM (or Noveske) for just one do-it-all carbine.


From a precision standpoint: let's say a chrome barrel (with ammo it likes) will do 1.5 MOA (many will do better). That is 9" groups at 600 yards...way more mechanical accuracy potential than a typical shooter or any combat/SHTF situation would ever call for. If you want more precision than that, you need to specialize into purpose made precision rifle. Otherwise (my opinion), you pay too much in cost and/or weight and reduced barrel life for the slightly more precise 5.56 gun.

Thats exactly what I'm looking for. I want a consistent 1 to 1.5 moa with more than 10k apparent barrel life. So i'm going back and forth on waiting for a larue or getting my own build now. I've been dealing with issue M4's with probably average 2 to 4 moa with some very well used weapons. So it's not like I am in need of a precision rifle. But I do want a quality ar thats a balance of an excellent shooter and long term durability. Im actually kinda pissed at myself for being this indecisive. I just don't want to invest into a project and find myself discontent with the results cause I don't want to then get it from my wife when i'm blowing more money. Ugh! I need to grill everyone in my unit to see who has a larue predatar so I can go check it out.

Thanks for the advice I appreciate it.

[killjoythedestroyer]

I was on the fence about barrels myself when I did my last build. I went ahead and shelled out for the chrome lined Noveske and it was worth every penny. I would say that the matched Noveske BCG would get the most out of the barrel as well as ammo choice ( obviously ). It is a hard barrel to beat for durability and accuracy. It can shoot better than me. Hope this helps, just my opinion.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

I think "precision" is overrated esp. for a 5.56 carbine. I'd get a standard (non-stainless) barrel 16" mid-length either a DD or a BCM (or Noveske) for just one do-it-all carbine.


From a precision standpoint: let's say a chrome barrel (with ammo it likes) will do 1.5 MOA (many will do better). That is 9" groups at 600 yards...way more mechanical accuracy potential than a typical shooter or any combat/SHTF situation would ever call for. If you want more precision than that, you need to specialize into purpose made precision rifle. Otherwise (my opinion), you pay too much in cost and/or weight and reduced barrel life for the slightly more precise 5.56 gun.


Im in the same boat as you brother. Ive never shot 1MOA at 500yds with my Aimpoint and 16" barrel, no matter how hard Ive tried. If I can hit a man sized target consistently at 300+ yds, then I feel my rifle is plenty accurate. Thats why my "recce" build includes a Centurion Hammer Forged barrel instead of a stainless. While I do understand the merits of the stainless, I value the barrel life of the Hammer Forged barrels. And that is the only thing that kept me from clicking "buy" on the PredatOBR.

[MistWolf]

If the Russians, the Finns and the North Vietnamese can successfully use a Mosin Nagant with a 2.5x optic as a sniper rifle, an AR carbine with a quality lightweight barrel and decent variable will be at least as effective. An HBar profile isn't needed. If you must demand a certain profile to help manage heat better, I'd go with a medium contour.

Pick a good barrel, the right optic and mount and your AR carbine will do anything you can reasonably demand of it. From what I've seen, the trade-offs between a CHF 4150 CMV barrel or stainless steel barrel will make little practical difference in this application

[dh6205]

I was on the fence about barrels myself when I did my last build. I went ahead and shelled out for the chrome lined Noveske and it was worth every penny. I would say that the matched Noveske BCG would get the most out of the barrel as well as ammo choice ( obviously ). It is a hard barrel to beat for durability and accuracy. It can shoot better than me. Hope this helps, just my opinion.

I looked at the noveske as well and I agree with your choich about bcg. imo which i have no serious data to back up but its usually worth keeping bcg and uppers as same manufacturer because they develop essentially in sync with the other.

[dh6205]

If the Russians, the Finns and the North Vietnamese can successfully use a Mosin Nagant with a 2.5x optic as a sniper rifle, an AR carbine with a quality lightweight barrel and decent variable will be at least as effective. An HBar profile isn't needed. If you must demand a certain profile to help manage heat better, I'd go with a medium contour.

Pick a good barrel, the right optic and mount and your AR carbine will do anything you can reasonably demand of it. From what I've seen, the trade-offs between a CHF 4150 CMV barrel or stainless steel barrel will make little practical difference in this application

Ya i agree. and i have a lot of russian friends who do collecet mosin's and svd's etc.

i was just wondering how to keep a balance between an avg 1/5 moa and lighter profiled weapon. im leaning more towards the build at this point as i can get my weapon up immediately as opposed to 14 + weeks.