Glock 22 with Speer Golt Dot 155 grain 3 out of 4 jammed - carry load? [Archive]

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Devildawg2531

06-09-12, 21:32

Had something happen today that has never happened before. I was sighting in my gen 3 G22 as I had just put AmeriGlo Hackathorn night sights on it. I decided to shoot my carry load which is Speer Gold Dot 155 and 3 out of the 1st 4 rounds jammed. Up until now this gun has been 100% through a few thousand rounds. Having the gun, mag ammo combo that you were just carrying jam 3 out of 4 REALLY made me wonder. I changed the mag and went through 70 more rounds of the same Gold Dot and had no issues so I'm almost positive it's the mag.

So at this point I've marked the bad / questionable mag - my question is what do you do with bad Glock mags? Do you toss them, put in new mag springs, use them as a training mag, etc. I've never had a bad Glock mag and tossing it is a little painful as the pre ban Glock .40 15 rounders use to sell for $80 - $120 during the high cap ban.

I've got some photo's of the jam that I will try to get added.

JHC

06-09-12, 21:51

How many rounds on your recoil spring? A few thousand may be all their is the life in a .40 for the recoil spring. Can't say I know for sure but it wouldn't be shocking.

Training mag status for that magazine unless a new recoil spring shows the mag to be GTG.

ST911

06-09-12, 21:53

operator81

06-09-12, 21:53

Depends on the malfunction. The 155 grain Gold Dot is a pretty hot load, so if your magazine springs are weak that could be an issue. I'd start by putting in a new may spring and the most up to date follower. Maybe install a new recoil spring if you have around 5000 rounds on your current spring. Without knowing the malfunction, this is about all the advice I can offer at this point

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operator81

06-09-12, 21:56

ST911

06-09-12, 22:15

Installation of the most recent follower may be neither advisable, nor possible, depending on which magazine body he has.

Devildawg2531

06-09-12, 22:39

Devildawg2531

06-09-12, 22:46

"Jam" is a fairly meaningless term. Please describe your stoppage in more detail. Where are the empty cases or live cartridges when the stoppage is occurring?

Do you have a light attached? Which one?

How old are your magazines? Which follower? 10 or 11 coil magazine spring?

On one the empty case caught the slide and on the other 2 the empty ejected but the slide locked back on the next round - removing the magazine caused the slide to go forward.
Yes I have a Surefire X300 attached. I don't think that's the issue as it was fine after changing mags.
I don't know how old the bad magazine is as I have about 25 Glock .40 mags that I have bought from early 90's through now. I will check out the bad mag.

Devildawg2531

06-09-12, 22:51

Another thing: what led to you choosing the 155 grain load? Those are quite vicious. A 180 grain will be more pleasant to shoot and might be less prone to malfunctions if your recoil and magazine springs are getting weak.

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I've carried the Speer Gold Dot 155 for about 10 years as I've read good feedback. I'm a big guy 6'3 225 and honestly don't find any .40 load vicious. I shoot the same load in my G27. I don't normally do high volume with the Gold Dot as it is expensive; and normally shoot 180 grain in training.

Devildawg2531

06-09-12, 23:06

Here are the photo's of the jam.

Devildawg2531

06-09-12, 23:31

Here are photo's of the mag that had the issues.

Devildawg2531

06-11-12, 07:50

Here are photo's of the mag that had the issues.

Am I diagnosing this correctly that this is caused by a weak spring in this older gen 3 mag and the combination of using the hotter Speer Gold Dot 155 caused the failures? The normal training ammo is 180 grain which worked with this mag and the Gold Dot cycled the slide faster causing the 1 FTE and the slide to lock back on the mag on the other 2?

Is the recommended treatment for a bad mag spring to replace with factory or there better after market replacements available?

Thanks

packinaglock

06-11-12, 08:36

Another thing: what led to you choosing the 155 grain load? Those are quite vicious. A 180 grain will be more pleasant to shoot and might be less prone to malfunctions if your recoil and magazine springs are getting weak.

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I use 155g Gold Dots in my G27 & G23, didn't know about the "prone to malfunctions" issues though. I'll have to keep that in mind.

operator81

06-11-12, 19:53

Am I diagnosing this correctly that this is caused by a weak spring in this older gen 3 mag and the combination of using the hotter Speer Gold Dot 155 caused the failures? The normal training ammo is 180 grain which worked with this mag and the Gold Dot cycled the slide faster causing the 1 FTE and the slide to lock back on the mag on the other 2?

Is the recommended treatment for a bad mag spring to replace with factory or there better after market replacements available?

Thanks

I think factory 11 coil spring would be fine.

operator81

06-11-12, 19:54

Installation of the most recent follower may be neither advisable, nor possible, depending on which magazine body he has.

Didn't know there was a difference between the preban and postban mags. Good to know.

MistWolf

06-12-12, 00:26

Try the mag again with the same ammo. It may be that you got used to the different recoil impulse and maybe "limp-wristed" the first few shots with the defense ammo

Devildawg2531

06-12-12, 08:57

Try the mag again with the same ammo. It may be that you got used to the different recoil impulse and maybe "limp-wristed" the first few shots with the defense ammo

I didn't limp wrist it. I've shot Glocks for 20 years and have shot a bunch of the Gold Dot 155 as its been my carry load for 10 years. I've never had it not go bang; also I was standing and using really good form as I was sighting in the AmeriGlo Hackathorn sights (which are great).
It was either a bad mag (I'm 99% sure this is it) or maybe induced by having the SureFire X300 on it but when I changed mags I kept the Surefire mounted and had no more issues.

Heavy Metal

06-12-12, 10:01

I would replace your recoil and mag springs. The round is nosediving in the mag.

M4Mike

06-12-12, 11:46

This is abit off topic, but what is the yellow stuff in the picture? Is that lube or a reflection. Just curious

Devildawg2531

06-12-12, 13:42

This is abit off topic, but what is the yellow stuff in the picture? Is that lube or a reflection. Just curious

I took these with my Blackberry inside the house and the pictures came out kind of wierd colored and speckled; there really isn't yellow. I lube these with Weaponshield and the Glock is lightly oiled but no yellow.

greyeyezz

06-12-12, 14:23

Last time the slide was dissembled/cleaned?

sjc3081

06-12-12, 14:59

I thought G22 plus a rail mounted light has a long history of malfunction issues.

BufordTJustice

06-12-12, 15:35

This is a known issue. Upgrade your magazine springs to Wolff XP magazine springs. Invest in a slightly uprated recoil spring. A 20lb spring with a stainless guide rod would work great. I have a buddy who had a 23 with the same issues. The above advice fixed them.

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BufordTJustice

06-12-12, 15:38

I would replace your recoil and mag springs. The round is nosediving in the mag.

My theory is that the slide velocity is to high. The mods I listed keep it from out running the round stack. The light seems to aggravate the issue by forcing the gun to remain more horizontal during the recoil stroke. My theory is that this increases the cyclic rate.

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Psalms144.1

06-13-12, 08:32

The problem of 3rd Gen G22s working spottily with mounted lights has been very well documented by now, and caused at least one major LE agency to revert back to G17s when Glock could not produce a consistent fix for the issue. The problem was widespread enough, in fact, that it led to the design changes that gave us the Gen4 pistols. The addition of the light makes the dust cover "stiffer," lessening resistance on the slide and therefore increasing slide velocity beyond the ability of the magazine spring to work properly. Compound this with the fact that Glock still uses the same recoil spring in 3rd Gen guns for 9mm and 40, plus you shooting high pressure (high slide velocity) loading, and you're in for trouble.

I have a good friend and long-time Firearms Instructor who went through this issue over the course of the last 6 months trying to get his 3rd Gen G23 to work with a mounted light. Changed recoil spring, changed mags, changed ejector, changed extractor, changed ammo, no luck. In the end, he dumped the 3rd Gen and got a Gen4.

Lucky for him, our agency was kind enough to donate the 2K+ rounds of ammo he wasted trying to diagnose and fix a design flaw that Glock won't acknowledge; so at least he's not out the cost of the ammo.

Deputy Dan

06-13-12, 09:06

Had the exact same issue with my Service issued 3rd Gen G23 with X300 in one of LAV's classes last year using Speer Lawman 155gr that I had a pile of... the recoil spring assembly probably had about 4000 rounds on it. Exact same stoppage. Went to a spare new G23 and had no issues.

I replaced the recoil spring assembly and put Wolff springs in the mags and the problem has not reoccurred...yet.