View Full Version : Remington 870 vs. Mossburg 500
sonrider657
01-15-08, 20:53
How does the Mossburg 500 compare with the Remington 870?
Jay Cunningham
01-15-08, 20:59
IMHO the Mossy cannot touch the 870.
Robb Jensen
01-15-08, 21:09
The only advantage I find in the 500/590 is for a left handed person. Other than that the 870 kicks it's ass in every way.
HighSpeedDreams
01-15-08, 21:10
I loved my Mossberg.....never a single problem with it. I use an 870 for work and I am quite fond of that as well. I'm partial to the 870 because its a 14" where as my 500 had an 18".
As I said, never a problem with my 500 but I could never get used to the idea of having a plastic safety and a plastic trigger group.
Ask M24SHOOTER about his gorgeous Mossberg 930 autoloader that mimics the FN SLP shotgun at half the cost.
HSD
The 870 is the pump shotgun that everything else tries to measure up to.
I've had both Mossbergs and Remingtons over the years. The last 590 I had decided to start failing to extract during a 3 gun match.
After that, I stuck to Remingtons and haven't had any issues since.
870.... If your wrong handed they also make (made) one that is backwards just for you...
Buck
The Mossberg has a nice safety and action release in terms of location. That said, an 870 Police or Wingmaster is substantially smoother cycling (read reliable) and more durable. I'll take the 870 every time.
Both the 500 and 870 are great shotguns. Anyone that says different doesn't know.
David Thomas
01-16-08, 18:05
The only mossberg 500 I have ever owned broke with very light use. I have never had any of my 870's break, regardless of vintage or model or round count. Also, I have never witnessed anybody’s 870 break.
I have seen 870's fail due to people putting them back together wrong after cleaning, but the gun cannot be blamed for that.
At the end of its life, the action on my 500 quit locking, i.e. at the shot the action would open without any help or influence from the shooter.
There simply is no need to settle for a mossberg nor is there any justification for doing so. The mossberg 500 is not an acceptable substitute for a shotgun, and I would never recommend one to anyone.
Jay Cunningham
01-16-08, 18:11
Both the 500 and 870 are great shotguns. Anyone that says different doesn't know.
Bold statement, fella.
Bold statement, fella.
Not really. I have used both extensively and I think they're both great shotguns for the money. I prefer Mossbergs but would go back to an 870 again.
i let a friend shoot my mossberg and the chamber came open during recoil, however i blame that on experience, he pulled the forgrip back when firing i believe cuz i've never had that problem
olds442tyguy
01-16-08, 20:45
I'd take a Mossberg over a low grade 870, but I think the 870PM is by far superior. Hell, low grade 870's even come with Mossberg made cast barrels.
That said, if I were ever to buy another pump shotgun it'd be a Benelli Supernova Tactical. Those things are loaded unbelievably for what they cost, and I can't recall seeing any bad reviews on the Nova series.
GastonG-NoVa
01-16-08, 21:18
We issue 870s, but I have had some mossys over the years. On any of our duty guns, we have had no problems. The range guns with a thousands of rounds on them need a repair every once in a while.
Over all, if I could choose any shotgun to carry around I would pick the 870 hands down. That includes any Benellis, 1100s, 11-87s, FNs, or anything else you can think of.
I spent some time training with LAPD, and they were carrying Ithacas at the time. I really thought they were pretty cool as well.
Not really. I have used both extensively and I think they're both great shotguns for the money. I prefer Mossbergs but would go back to an 870 again.
I'd take back what I said, but its unnecessary because I dont know anything ;)
Both the 500 and 870 are great shotguns. Anyone that says different doesn't know.
I've got a bunch of Mossbergs running around.
I'd prefer to have 870Ps.
Educate me.
870 has a steel receiver. 500 series have alum alloy receivers.
Alum receiver = more felt recoil, and more easily damaged during hard use/abuse.
I've seen a lot of high-mileage, abused 870s (my agency has about 60 of them), and the mil units I was in always had a some ancient 870s. Despite the abuse and neglect, the only thing I've EVER seen break is the ejector popping loose on two 870s.
Some of the 590s I saw in MIL service had problems with the shell catch springs not being strong enough. The aft-most shell in the magazine would slip the shell catch during recoil and fall to the deck.
I've owned two 870s (a P and a Marine Magnum), one 590, an 1187P, a SX2, and a Benelli M2 Tactical.
Still own the Benelli (3 gun shotgun when the Nordic mag extension is added) and the 870P (LE).
toddackerman
01-19-08, 13:22
I've owned and shot a lot of full power loads through both.
I prefer the 870.
More after market options, I like the safety location better, and I think they are a bit more rugged.
...low grade 870's even come with Mossberg made cast barrels.
Wow. I have not heard that before.
Where'd you come by this information?
Iraq Ninja
01-19-08, 15:38
Anyone try the 870 with the Knoxx stock on it?
I have an 870 w/ Knoxx stock on it, and it does work well. I like it, but I'm not sure if it actually decreases felt recoil by as much as they advertise. I remember feeling a difference from shooting with the wooden stock and then changing to the Knoxx. But then I didn't use it for a while and took it to a shotgun course, damn thing still hurts your shoulder. But it looks cool.:D
Well this Fella has to say the same. Both are excellent shotguns.
And in my opinion it comes down to which you prefer, the mossberg in my case. And that is only due to the location of the safety and breach release.
I've got a bunch of Mossbergs running around.
I'd prefer to have 870Ps.
Educate me.
How would you like to be educated?
Would you like me to say how durable my Mossbergs have been? How I've never had a failure with either of the two I currently own (one of which is 20 years old)? Or would you like me to tell you that the 870 is so much better? :confused:
I prefer the location of the controls on the Mossy. For me the Mossy also swings onto target better. For me the balance is better.
I love my 870, when shooting both I think the 870 feels so much better.
I like the Mossberg safety when using a standard stock. It becomes difficult to use when you go with a pistol grip/stock (not just a pistol grip).
Over all, I prefer (and own) a 870. :D
As a newb here I freely admitted I know almost nothing about ARs and am leaning a lot from you guys. Thank you.
But shotguns, now that is something I know a little more about. The Remington vs Mossberg great debate will go on forever, just like Chevy vs Ford. Over in the Tactical section of Shotgun World where I have mainly posted so far, this debate comes up very couple of weeks and most of the time most of the posters who favor one or the other have only owned and shot one or the other. Brand loyalty, plain and simple.
I own and shoot a 20" Mossberg M590A1 (yes, the one with the heavy-walled barrel), an 18" Remington 870 and an 18" Winchester 1300 and like all three. IMO they all work just fine and do what they are supposed to, albeit with some differences in operation, mainly the location of the safety and slide release.
Yes, the action of an 870P (not Express) is smoother out of the box, but they all smooth out the more you use them. BTW, there is very little difference between the Express and 870P. They use the same receiver and action but the 870P is built with a handful of "stronger" parts that you can retrofit to an Express if you want to. And the 870P is built in a "special" area and some parts are more polished. They also get inspected more, too. And they are finished differently. That's about it. But you do get a huge price difference.
YMMV, but I prefer the location of the safety and slide release on the Mossberg as I find them easier to operate. And, I find the 590 easier to reload under stress as the shell lifter isn't in the way when the bolt is closed on a round in the chamber. Just my opinion and worth what you paid for it.
870...America's Pump. I'm a lefty and I choose reliability over placement of controls any day + you can flip the safety button around if it really means that much.
870...America's Pump. I'm a lefty and I choose reliability over placement of controls any day + you can flip the safety button around if it really means that much.
I am a righty and I still like the Mossy safety better. Are you saying a Mossberg is unreliable? I certainly have not found that to be the case with my M590A1.
I am a righty and I still like the Mossy safety better. Are you saying a Mossberg is unreliable? I certainly have not found that to be the case with my M590A1.
No, I actually like the Mossy safety placement...but that alone wouldn't make me switch. I do however think that less 870's have turned out to be lemons. Our armory (USMC) had a pile of mossy pumps that wouldn't take the same abuse as our M870's and M1014's.
As I said, never a problem with my 500 but I could never get used to the idea of having a plastic safety and a plastic trigger group.
You can replace both very easily, or just trade it for an M590A1. :)
The plastic trigger guard doesn't bother me, but the plastic safety does and they are known to break. I would replace it. There are several good options.
YMMV, but I prefer the location of the safety and slide release on the Mossberg as I find them easier to operate. And, I find the 590 easier to reload under stress as the shell lifter isn't in the way when the bolt is closed on a round in the chamber. Just my opinion and worth what you paid for it.
These are the two main reasons I have a 590A1 as well. I would not throw out an 870 but I did choose which one to purchase.
Buckaroo
Our armory (USMC) had a pile of mossy pumps that wouldn't take the same abuse as our M870's and M1014's.
I will never say I shoot as much as deployed military. Thank you for your service.
Generally, what happened to the Mossys, FTE due to worn/broken extractors? And was there some general round count where unreliability set in? And were they 500s or 590s?
As a newb here I freely admitted I know almost nothing about ARs and am leaning a lot from you guys. Thank you.
Welcome to M4C.
But shotguns, now that is something I know a little more about. The Remington vs Mossberg great debate will go on forever, just like Chevy vs Ford.
An oft-posted analogy, but usually oversimplified. There are a number of differences between a chevy and ford pickup. To what extent they manifest and the impact it has on how the job is done will vary.
The fleet manager at a place I work, using hundreds of pickups, has strong opinions here, and a large book of maintenance and performance records to back it up.
Food for thought.
this debate comes up very couple of weeks and most of the time most of the posters who favor one or the other have only owned and shot one or the other. Brand loyalty, plain and simple.
You shouldn't extend this viewpoint to the bulk of members here. In the bubblegum world, that might hold true.
I own and shoot a 20" Mossberg M590A1 (yes, the one with the heavy-walled barrel), an 18" Remington 870 and an 18" Winchester 1300 and like all three. IMO they all work just fine and do what they are supposed to, albeit with some differences in operation, mainly the location of the safety and slide release.
Excellent, enjoy your shotguns and shoot well.
I have yet to see a Winchester 1300 make it through a class, serious duty regimen, or reasonable service life without issue.
BTW, there is very little difference between the Express and 870P....That's about it. But you do get a huge price difference.
See the summary document published by Remington itself on the differences in the P-variant. It's more than you post, and more than you think.
I will never say I shoot as much as deployed military. Thank you for your service.
Generally, what happened to the Mossys, FTE due to worn/broken extractors? And was there some general round count where unreliability set in? And were they 500s or 590s?
Pretty sure they were 500's, yes lots of FTE's- our armorors got sick of tinkering with them and when we got the new M1014's...we really didn't touch any of the pump guns all that much.
Not sure about the round counts either; I shoot 'em till they go down, then I trade 'em in for one that runs(issue weapons).
You shouldn't extend this viewpoint to the bulk of members here.
I didn't think I did. I thought I referred to the other group. Sorry if you were offended.
In the bubblegum world, that might hold true.
Please don't talk down to me because I am not active military. I did my time in the infantry, I just did it in a different time and place.
I have yet to see a Winchester 1300 make it through a class, serious duty regimen, or reasonable service life without issue.
What does that say about the FN TPS? It is the same SG, just different clothes.
See the summary document published by Remington itself on the differences in the P-variant. It's more than you post, and more than you think.
Well sure it is more than I posted, otherwise I would have had to post the whole thing. But I think my summary was pretty much on. There is no part in or on an 870P that you can't put in or on an Express, and for a whole lot less money. Gosh, I am alrady starting to sound like an AR builder.
Yes, there are differences to fit and finish, but I think I already said that. Here is the document so that others might see it as well: http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/articles/870ExpvsPol6-30-05.pdf BTW, several items on this list are no longer valid in all instances.
For example, Remmy dropped the J-lock safety from the Express so it now has a regular safety. But most shooters I know changed it out anyway with a Wilson or a Vang, just as I would change out the safety on an 870P to a Wilson or a Vang.
Also the Express 6+1 with factory extension has the same "ball dentent" system the 870P does. And it now ships with front and rear sling swivel studs as well, just like the 870P, not that this is a big deal.
As for not being able to add an magazine extension to the Express because of the "dimples" in the mag tube, most folks figured out the easy workaround on that a long time ago. But, I wouldn't want to add an extension anyway - I would simply buy the Express model that already had it as it is much less expensive that way.
Pretty sure they were 500's, yes lots of FTE
Yep, 500s. I have never owned or even shot a 500. All my comments were about 590s.
I didn't think I did. I thought I referred to the other group. Sorry if you were offended.
You're right, I misread your post. Sorry about that.
Please don't talk down to me because I am not active military. I did my time in the infantry, I just did it in a different time and place.
I'm not talking down to you, just an observation on other venues where a lower common denominator of discourse is more likely, and valuation based on ownership, validation, and brand loyalty have greater voice.
What does that say about the FN TPS? It is the same SG, just different clothes.
Insufficient experience with the TPS, so I'll defer to those with more.
I'm comfortable with my observations of the 1300, and stand by them, though.
But I think my summary was pretty much on.
We'll agree to disagree.
Onward and upward.
I'm comfortable with my observations of the 1300, and stand by them, though.
I haven't run my 1300 hard enough to know, which is why I asked. Good to know your thoughts - thanks!
condition 1
01-24-08, 18:13
IMHO the Mossy cannot touch the 870.
YUP !!! not even close, IMHO...
How would you like to be educated?
Would you like me to say how durable my Mossbergs have been? How I've never had a failure with either of the two I currently own (one of which is 20 years old)? Or would you like me to tell you that the 870 is so much better? :confused:
Durability is not a trait I observed in Mossberg's shotguns, at least not compared to a Remington.
My boat kept 14" barreled Mossy shotguns for topside watches and reaction force and we had to shoot a familiarization course every off-crew (3-4 times a year). Only one of the weapons could consistently make it through a range day. Mind you, none of these weapons was more than 5-6 years old and were only fired for the fam. course. 15 shells per person for 50 people spread over 8 guns. They would be cleaned promptly after each range day. While in port they would be cleaned once a week and rotated so they'd wear evenly. I really wouldn't count how they were treated as abuse, yet when range day came 7 of the weapons would go down AT LEAST once. I was thoroughly underwhelmed.
When our local PD got Benellis they sold off their 870s. These guns were carried and shot and abused to a far greater degree than the Mossys on my boat for decades, yet the shop that sold them never had one come back in to the shop for service. The one I own has had zero problems and I've shot the dogshit out of it.
If your experience has been different I encourage you to continue using Mossbergs, but the Rem. v. Moss argument has always reminded me of Colt v. Bushmaster. IOW, one has the goods and the other is "as good as."
.......The one I own (870) has had zero problems and I've shot the dogshit out of it......
Definite +1.
......There is no part in or on an 870P that you can't put in or on an Express, and for a whole lot less money.......
That's kinda what I ended up doing. See https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=10031
That's kinda what I ended up doing. See https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=10031
Nice set up, blackscot. The 870P options include both and 18" and 20" IC smoothbore barrels with rifle sights. I have been looking for a used 18 incher for years (just the barrel, not the whole SG). I'll see the 20" barrels fairly frequently, but not the 18". I may end up doing what you did with the 20", but I'd really like the 18".
Nice set up, blackscot. The 870P options include both and 18" and 20" IC smoothbore barrels with rifle sights. I have been looking for a used 18 incher for years (just the barrel, not the whole SG). I'll see the 20" barrels fairly frequently, but not the 18". I may end up doing what you did with the 20", but I'd really like the 18".
Thanks. :)
The one thing I liked better with the 18-inch was the balance. Just felt more snappy mounting the gun. If I were to now buy a P model new, I'd go with an 18-inch rifle-sighted IC barrel. I'm not a big guy, so the extra couple inches on my current set-up feels a little front heavy to me. May be no-issue for others though.
Durability is not a trait I observed in Mossberg's shotguns, at least not compared to a Remington.
My boat kept 14" barreled Mossy shotguns for topside watches and reaction force and we had to shoot a familiarization course every off-crew (3-4 times a year). Only one of the weapons could consistently make it through a range day. Mind you, none of these weapons was more than 5-6 years old and were only fired for the fam. course. 15 shells per person for 50 people spread over 8 guns. They would be cleaned promptly after each range day. While in port they would be cleaned once a week and rotated so they'd wear evenly. I really wouldn't count how they were treated as abuse, yet when range day came 7 of the weapons would go down AT LEAST once. I was thoroughly underwhelmed.
When our local PD got Benellis they sold off their 870s. These guns were carried and shot and abused to a far greater degree than the Mossys on my boat for decades, yet the shop that sold them never had one come back in to the shop for service. The one I own has had zero problems and I've shot the dogshit out of it.
If your experience has been different I encourage you to continue using Mossbergs, but the Rem. v. Moss argument has always reminded me of Colt v. Bushmaster. IOW, one has the goods and the other is "as good as."
I've had great success wit my two Mossbergs and I'm quite happy with them. If I had any trouble like you've experienced, I'd probably go back to an 870. Until then, I'll keep kepping on with the Mossbergs.
I've owned and used both. I decided to keep the Remington.
My beef with the Mossberg stems from the safety. It is ergonomic, and is an equal opportunity control for southpaws and normal folk.
The continous issue I've had is that with hard use, the ball bearing that locks the safety in place, comes loose and starts to breed flies in the ointment. The early warning sign is when the safety becomes stiff to engage or disengage. What usually follows is that the safety button will float. You will not have a tactile sense of whether it is fully on or off.
Had this happen to me in 2 classes with Louis Awerbuck. Gun went on safe when I needed it off and I missed an opportunity to take the shot. Mind you, this was with my thumb riding the button. It had floated just enough to disable the trigger.:mad:
Same thing happened to at least one other Mossberg shooter in each class.
The Remington has never caused such problems. Sure I wish the carrier release lever was located like the Mossbergs, and it would help if the shell lifter and loading gate were gentler on the hands, but if the puppy runs dry and stuff still needs immediate shooting, I'm transitioning to my pistol.
YMMV.
I like the Mossberg, grew up with them. The control's are great because in Norfolk we used to do alot of strong/weak side only shooting and the 590's we had always beat the guys running with our 870's. Now I haven't put elenty billion rounds down range with ethier. :D ;)
Don Robison
02-05-08, 23:09
After 30 years of running 500's exclusively, two added 590's the last 2 years with no problems. I added my first 870 to the stable today. A Wingmaster built Apr 1956. Some folks would probably have a cow, but I bought it for an SBS build. It's in 85-90% condition, real wood, not that stuff they pass off as wood these days. She's a beauty, but IMO will be a stunner with a 14" barrel a new parkerized finish, trijicon bead and a reversed safety(I'm a lefty)
After 30 years of running 500's exclusively, two added 590's the last 2 years with no problems. I added my first 870 to the stable today. A Wingmaster built Apr 1956. Some folks would probably have a cow, but I bought it for an SBS build. It's in 85-90% condition, real wood, not that stuff they pass off as wood these days. She's a beauty, but IMO will be a stunner with a 14" barrel a new parkerized finish, trijicon bead and a reversed safety(I'm a lefty)
You may want save that old 870 and buy a left-hand 870 sportsman... They sell in the $200 range… That would be a great base gun for your project and would be very unique with the ejection port on the lest side and the reversed safety...
Just a thought…
Buck
......A Wingmaster built Apr 1956. Some folks would probably have a cow, but I bought it for an SBS build. It's in 85-90% condition, real wood, not that stuff they pass off as wood these days. She's a beauty, but IMO will be a stunner with a 14" barrel a new parkerized finish, trijicon bead and a reversed safety(I'm a lefty)
Oh the horror ! ! ! :( :( :(
Another +1 for the 870. I had an older Mossy with the adjustable choke on the end of barrel. Much happier with 870.
Don Robison
02-23-08, 22:22
You may want save that old 870 and buy a left-hand 870 sportsman... They sell in the $200 range… That would be a great base gun for your project and would be very unique with the ejection port on the lest side and the reversed safety...
Just a thought…
Buck
Oh the horror ! ! !
Don't worry guys, the more I thought about it, the less I could bring myself to do it. I did buy a 20" barrel for it though and gave it to the wife.
Anyone try the 870 with the Knoxx stock on it?
i have the knox spec-ops stock. looks kinda wierd compared to a m4 stock that it is trying to emulate. the recoil is just a tad lighter than the wood stock i had originaly, but after about a case of bird shot and some clay shooting, my shoulder really apreiciates that little difference!
I'd have to say i love my mossy. it's the first shotgun i've owned and have had it for a good ten years now. i'm probably 4500 rounds in to it, with 1100 of those coming in the last year(walmart had a good sale). i'm sure that's not alot for most of you on here, with what i've read so far. but i've never had a problem with it, and enjoy shooting it. and the wife flat rapes every time we go shooting, lol! i think for the price and function it is a great scatter gun. and with it's primary role being an intimidator for some common sense challenged turd who wants what i got it does the job in great fashion. That being said, if anybody on here lives in wyoming or close to, and wants to build a case for their 870 i'd love to shoot with them. I've shot one (870) before at a range but 10 rounds is hardly enough to build an opinion on the weapon. With the guns i've seen on here they sure are some cool and convincing tools should somebody need persuasion.
I have had a M-500 with a slug barrel since the late 70's, I have a 870, 1100 and a 1187. I am left handed and have left hand safeties in the Rem rt hand guns. The reloading and clearing go faster that way. I keep going back to my Mossy - maybe because it fits good or the safety is easy or it's just an old friend. They all do the job. They all have had issues and I would trust my life to all of them but I favor the Mossberg. It feels good. Go with what works for you.
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