Think about getting into Browning Hi Powers [Archive]

kaltesherz

06-13-12, 16:21

okie john

06-13-12, 16:39

Years ago I got a beautiful Mk II Hi Power, but couldn't shoot it worth a damn because of the trigger and in financial crunch sold it. Over the years I've regretted selling it, and now I'm considering giving the BHP another run, after probably spending too time on Mr. Camps website (RIP). This time I'm looking at picking up a Mk III, having some trigger work done, and getting a C&S no bite hammer installed. If it shoots well I'd probably throw on a pair of Novaks as well. While my Glock 19 carries well, it hasn't got a soul, and would like something else to carry now and again.

Think there's any way I can pull this off for less than a grand? Any other advice?

It depends on what you start with. NIB Mk IIIs start at $800 around here. I've seen beater Israeli Mk II and Mk III guns for $4-500 at Pinto's Gunshop in Renton. Gunsamerica and gunsinternational have inexpensive MkII and MkIII guns now and then, but by the time you add shipping and transfers, they're not such a great deal.

As for the hammer, I've found that people who get bit by a ring hammer don't get bit by a spur hammer and vice versa. A new hammer almost definitely requires trigger work, so that adds cost.

If the hammer doesn't bite your hand, then you can get a crisp 4-5# trigger by getting rid of the magazine safety and shooting the gun 1k rounds or so. The guns at Pinto's just need to have the mag safety removed--they've been shot enough already.

Did I answer your question?

Okie John

brickboy240

06-13-12, 17:00

I highly recommend the Cylinder & Slide hammer/sear/spring kits.

Turned my FN HP into a real tack driver.

-brickboy240

jmlshooter

06-13-12, 19:36

Souls are overrated.

yellowfin

06-13-12, 21:03

Question: has anyone ever made a compact size Hi Power? Would that be feasible or desirable?

gunnut284

06-13-12, 21:05

I've been down that road twice now and I still like the Hi Power but think that, like the 1911, it's time has past. The Glock (or other modern choices) are a better option for a defensive handgun. I still own Hi Powers and 1911s but don't carry them.
That said, under $1000 with sights, hammer and trigger work is unlikely unless you find a smoking deal on the base gun.

gunnut284

06-13-12, 21:06

Question: has anyone ever made a compact size Hi Power? Would that be feasible or desirable?

The Argentines made a Detective model that was like a Commander and there have been custom jobs.

kaltesherz

06-14-12, 01:11

Did I answer your question?

Okie John

Pretty much! I might have to check out Pinto's and see if I can find a Mk III that's still got plenty of life left. I read somewhere that the Israeli BHPs never had mag safetys, so problem solved. I'm a SA trigger snob, so more than likely I'd still get a trigger job and really hate spur hammers, hence the C&S replacement.

I'm sure my G19 would still be my primary CCW, I've just always had a soft spot for BHPs. My 1911 is just too pricey to feed and I need a 9mm SA fo my stable...er... I mean other than my HK P7.

I seem to remember C&S made a custom compact BHP called the Pathfinder years ago, but it was a whole lotta cheddar...

rathos

06-14-12, 03:46

CDNN still have them for $700 NIB for the Mark III. If you are going to send it off for new parts and to get fixed up getting a beater from Gunsamerica might be the way to go.

TJx

06-14-12, 06:33

Rather than quote several posts directly I'll just post info.

CDNN, unless they've got more HP's in very recently hasn't had any in for awhile.
The Israeli's I've seen all have mag safety's.
I paid $459.95 for a Mark III Israeli police gun made & assembled in '89 by FN in Herstal in pretty nice shape w/ a new park job.
I removed the mag safety, sanded sides of trigger with 1200 grit where it rubs frame and have a pretty nice trigger now (4.5 to 5lbs).
I have Tru-Glo night sights that fit in the existing dovetail on order from my LGS for $84 that includes installation.
You don't need to spend $1000 to get a Hi Power with a nice trigger and sights.
Coles is probably the best going for the Israeli's, gcolecoledist on GB.
The only caution is many are Mark II's and you can't always tell from the picture the generation.
Also, the Mark III's are not true Mark III's. They have Mark III dovetail sights but no firing pin block.

ruchik

06-14-12, 06:35

Question: has anyone ever made a compact size Hi Power? Would that be feasible or desirable?

Cylinder and Slide can make you a custom compact BHP. They cut about half an inch off the slide and frame; the magazines are also cut correspondingly short. They call it the Pathfinder; just be aware that the conversion is insanely expensive.

yellowfin

06-14-12, 07:56

The Argentines made a Detective model that was like a Commander and there have been custom jobs.
Wow, you're right, and they look SWEET!

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8164/7308576296_c59d3191f0.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h252/gp35fn/P1030010.jpg

http://gastatic.com/UserImages/5495/999730949/wm_3989416.jpg

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z407/Jeremy_Ortiz/HiPower-1.jpg

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh78/sub-moa/CustomP35s08-22-11012.jpg

The downside is of course that this adds to my ever growing list of firearms I want to purchase--HIGHLY disruptive to my savings and investment plans, but oh well.

brickboy240

06-14-12, 11:28

I have an Israeli military contract Hi-Power that I have modded out and just love it.

Removed the mag safety, put in a Cylinder & Slide hammer/sear/spring kit, changed all other springs, C&S extended safety, added Speigel cocobolo grips and a flat black teflon finish.

The thing give me one ragged hole groups at 15yds or so. It eats everything I throw in it. Honestly...I cannot recall this pistol ever jamming on anything.

The trigger is VERY 1911-ish. Better than any other double stack 9mm I have even owned or shot.

I love the way the Hi-Power feels...slim and points very well. It does not SEEM like a full size all steel pistol and feels livlier than most other "service" sized autos.

Many don't care for the Hi-Power but I really like it as a range and plinking pistol.

- brickboy240

Barry in IN

06-14-12, 11:40

I carry a HiPower most of the time, simply because it fits my hand better than any other handgun, and the slim slide carries well IWB. I also prefer SA autos. Soul has little to do with it. It doesn't hurt though.

A friend bought a "surplus" HiPower from AIM Surplus a little while back. I don't recall the price now, but it wasn't bad and would have got you what you wanted for under a grand.

Trigger pulls seem to vary a lot on them. I had always heard that they were terrible, but when I bought my first one I didn't understand what the fuss was over. It had a pretty good trigger. My second one was terrible, and I saw what they meant. I've had several since, but those first two had the best and worst triggers with the rest falling somewhere in between.
The best thing I could suggest there is to look at several and try the triggers. Buy the one with the best trigger, especially if you can live with it. You may have to pay more for it, but you will pay even more for a good trigger.

Someone said every Israeli HP they've seen had the mag disconnect in place. My experience is the opposite. I do think a lot of what are called "Israeli" HiPowers may not be. And who knows who did what to the gun in the past.
If it matters to you at all, IDPA recently put out a rules clarification saying they weren't going to enforce the mag disconnect removal as a safety deactivation anymore.

It's the absolute truth that different people get bit differently by them. I cringe when I see people in forums advise people to get a ring hammer right away. They may be setting them up to get the worst bite. You have to shoot it first to see what bites you.

In my opinion, HiPowers are "almost there". They have a great grip shape, fair capacity, a slim frame and slide...but need a little to push them into being really good. I think it's worth doing what is needed, because while I can get sights, extended safety, and maybe trigger work on a HiPower, I can't change the grip or narrow the slide on other guns.

C4IGrant

06-14-12, 11:43

John Holbrook

06-14-12, 11:54

I bought this nice Israeli HP at a gun show and sent it down the John Norell and had him refinish it with his Moly Resin finish. I just got it back and I have Meprolite Night Sights on order..-----[:D]

http://www.fototime.com/%7B11E4BB72-6D62-4674-A9ED-BB0B2BF1EF62%7D/origpict/Israeli%25202.JPG

http://www.fototime.com/%7B306DE580-A568-4E94-87B0-BE2762E0E4ED%7D/origpict/Israeli%25201.JPG

Here you can see how the MK II slide was slotted for the MK III sights.

http://www.fototime.com/%7B0B2BEACC-6F01-44B5-A39B-AEB16E85A165%7D/origpict/Israeli%25203.JPG

Here is a shot of the frame, and it is forged.. I shot it before I sent it for refinish and it proved to reliable and accurate. A typical HP!!! I got the night sights today and have installed them... I am looking forward to sighting it in.... I left off the right ambi-safety cause I dont like them...

Also, it has no import marks.

http://www.fototime.com/%7B3991B08B-353E-4211-AE29-E440F5D5873C%7D/origpict/Israelt%25204.JPG

http://www.fototime.com/%7BA9682C31-B6A7-422A-914C-3FD0CB425C2A%7D/origpict/Israeli%25205.JPG

Here it is with night sights and FEG safety..

http://www.fototime.com/%7BFC8E1B7C-94F8-436E-841E-3C290BDD8BF0%7D/origpict/Israeli%252011.JPG

And my current stable of HPs, which is subject to increase at anytime!!!!--:D

http://www.fototime.com/%7B4ED39D39-D4BC-41E2-BD65-37A3FC12829B%7D/origpict/HP%2520Trio%25201.JPG

Quinn

06-14-12, 13:08

were any made with rails?

Steve S.

06-14-12, 13:47

Big fan of the gun (just a cool weapon).

Here is a pic of my ultra rare Alloy framed, Novak Custom.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Grant's%20weapons/HIPOWER_Side1.jpg

NAZI marked HP.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/GR%201911/FN_HP_Full.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/GR%201911/FN_HP_Nazi_Stamp.jpg

C4

Wow. That's way cool. Where in the Hell did you find that, Grant? I wasn't even aware the Nazis used BHPs. Makes sense though, they did have some fine weapons and FNH being right there and all.

C4IGrant

06-14-12, 13:55

Wow. That's way cool. Where in the Hell did you find that, Grant? I wasn't even aware the Nazis used BHPs. Makes sense though, they did have some fine weapons and FNH being right there and all.

Got it from Mr. Hackathorn. Was a bring back by a Soldier that killed a Nazi officer.

C4

Here are some more pics for you.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/GR%201911/FN_HP_Full1.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/GR%201911/FN_HP_Nazi_Stamp1.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/GR%201911/FN_HP_Slide_RM.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/GR%201911/Nazi_Holster.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/GR%201911/Nazi_Holster_RM.jpg

Univibe

06-14-12, 13:56

Dude. The Hi-Power is one of only two handguns I'd count on to save my bacon in urban survival. The other being the 1911. Pack one if you wish to avoid being the guest of honor at a gang initiation.

okie john

06-14-12, 14:26

I wasn't even aware the Nazis used BHPs. Makes sense though, they did have some fine weapons and FNH being right there and all.

Once the Germans overran Poland, they had access to the 9mm ViS (Radom), and they issued them. Same thing with Hi-Powers once they overran Belgium. I think the Fallschirmsjaegers and the SS got most of them.

Okie John

vaglocker

06-14-12, 14:29

Dude. The Hi-Power is one of only two handguns I'd count on to save my bacon in urban survival. The other being the 1911. Pack one if you wish to avoid being the guest of honor at a gang initiation.

I'm usually pretty good at detecting sarcasm, but I truly can't tell if your serious about this or not.

C4IGrant

06-14-12, 15:58

Icopy1

06-14-12, 16:45

I've owned an MKIII and an MKII over the years. Both were 100% reliable and fit my hand like a glove. The triggers were decent enough and they carried very well on the belt. My only grip is that the ambi-safety would swipe off way too easily while carrying.

Tzook

06-14-12, 16:53

Hi Powers are wonderful!!!!! I inherited a nice old 50's or 60's something shooter, and I carried it for a bit. It won't carry as well for you as the G19, but damn they feel good in the hand.

Steve S.

06-14-12, 16:55

Got it from Mr. Hackathorn. Was a bring back by a Soldier that killed a Nazi officer.

C4

Here are some more pics for you.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/GR%201911/FN_HP_Full1.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/GR%201911/FN_HP_Nazi_Stamp1.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/GR%201911/FN_HP_Slide_RM.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/GR%201911/Nazi_Holster.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/GR%201911/Nazi_Holster_RM.jpg

That really is one of the coolest things I've seen on here in a long time. I can't believe you got the leather with it. The backstory is what really seals the deal.

What's the old saying?

"The French fight for glory, the English fight for land, and the Americans fight for souvenirs."

It's too bad war trophies are such a PITA to bring back these days...

Steve S.

06-14-12, 16:58

Once the Germans overran Poland, they had access to the 9mm ViS (Radom), and they issued them. Same thing with Hi-Powers once they overran Belgium. I think the Fallschirmsjaegers and the SS got most of them.

Okie John

Thanks for that. I'm admittedly not well versed on WW1 & 2. Sounds like some good Sunday afternoon research / reading on the Fallschirmsjaegers.

okie john

06-14-12, 17:25

Thanks for that. I'm admittedly not well versed on WW1 & 2. Sounds like some good Sunday afternoon research / reading on the Fallschirmsjaegers.

No problem. But take your time--the Fallschirmsjaegers deserve far more than an afternoon.

Okie John

Awesome1228

06-14-12, 17:30

Thanks for that. I'm admittedly not well versed on WW1 & 2. Sounds like some good Sunday afternoon research / reading on the Fallschirmsjaegers.

And this is the problem. Sunday afternoon turns into Sunday evening, which becomes midnight...next thing you know you are spending hours a day researching and reading, and you've gotta buy another bookcase for all that reading material. I know, I've been there. More than once. Fascinating stuff, and well worth the time spent.

Univibe

06-14-12, 18:56

I'm usually pretty good at detecting sarcasm, but I truly can't tell if your serious about this or not.

When it comes to Hi-Powers and 1911, Univibe is always serious.

Barry in IN

06-15-12, 13:41

were any made with rails?

I seem to remember Cylinder & Slide was working on a screw-on rail similar to the Dawson for 1911s, but I don't recall if it ever went into production. Or if I imagined it.

I think there would be a lot more interest in the HiPower if someone were to make them and give them a few changes like a slight beavertail, Novaks or Heinies, thin grips, and an enlarged safety lever from the factory. Sort of like a Springfield HiPower Limited. None except for the beavertail would require any extensive change, and enough factories around the world have made them that someone would surely jump at the chance to make some like that for them.
Might as well wish for a stainless or alloy frame option (both have been done by different places). Oooh, a Scandium HiPower...

I'd think someone like SA could do this and sell them for a lot less than Browning sells theirs without the changes. A HiPower like that for SA Limited 1911 money should sell. Charles Daly made a half attempt at this a few years ago, and there were people buying them that I'd never expected to buy a CD anything.

kaltesherz

06-15-12, 14:46

Well, thanks to Okiejohn I picked one up yesterday :D

Here she is, Mk III Israeli BHP. All matching, parked, and a little beat up but not too bad. Small amount of pitting on front left side of the side, and a bad dink to the front sight, but nothing I can't fix. Trigger is HEAVY, but clean. Already ordered a new set of grips, replacement front sight, and the hammer / sear combo from C&S.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u64/kaltesherz/003-8.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u64/kaltesherz/004.jpg

Tried to remove the Mag safety as shown in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdApLdz8EGA
but no dice- sucker doesn't want to budge. Is there another way that doesn't involve removing the trigger?

Should get some rounds downrange tomorrow and see how she shoots. Also anyone know the best place to pick up either surplus or Mec Gar mags?
Thanks everybody!

okie john

06-15-12, 14:52

Well, thanks to Okiejohn I picked one up yesterday :D

Nice piece--got some character. Did you get it at Pinto's?

Removing the trigger is the only way I know to remove the magazine safety. You should probably know how to do it anyway...

Learn to recognize a BHP mag, then keep an eye on the "Miscellaneous Magazines" bin in gun stores and pawnshops. There's usually 1-2 in there for cheap if you know what to look for.

Okie John

Pistol Shooter

06-15-12, 16:46

Congratulations kaltesherz, the BHP is a superb handgun by any measure.

I bought my first one in 1975, a T Series NIB which was and is amazingly accurate even with the small combat sights. :)

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo220/cashbailey_photos/DSCN0895.jpg

samuse

06-16-12, 00:28

I used to be a Hi-Power guy. As in I didn't carry or shoot anything other than a Hi-Power for a long time. I was a Stephen Camp disciple.

GREAT GUNS.

Weight eventually won out and I stuck with a Glock 19.

If you can shoot a Glock, you can shoot a Hi-Power. The trigger is the same, but you can't feel the reset on a Hi-Power.

If you're a trigger-slapper, do your trigger stuff, it doesn't really matter...

Urban_Redneck

06-16-12, 05:09

Gary1911A1

06-16-12, 10:25

I seem to remember Cylinder & Slide was working on a screw-on rail similar to the Dawson for 1911s, but I don't recall if it ever went into production. Or if I imagined it.

I think there would be a lot more interest in the HiPower if someone were to make them and give them a few changes like a slight beavertail, Novaks or Heinies, thin grips, and an enlarged safety lever from the factory. Sort of like a Springfield HiPower Limited. None except for the beavertail would require any extensive change, and enough factories around the world have made them that someone would surely jump at the chance to make some like that for them.
Might as well wish for a stainless or alloy frame option (both have been done by different places). Oooh, a Scandium HiPower...

I'd think someone like SA could do this and sell them for a lot less than Browning sells theirs without the changes. A HiPower like that for SA Limited 1911 money should sell. Charles Daly made a half attempt at this a few years ago, and there were people buying them that I'd never expected to buy a CD anything.

I know what you mean. The closest improved Hi-Power type I can think of with some of the improvements you mentioned is the CZ75 SA.

m4brian

06-16-12, 15:19

To me, if you polish the hammer rear, and dehorn the existing receiver tang, do a little trigger work, you have a perfect steel nine.

Lost River

06-18-12, 09:27

Like a Jim Garthwaite custom :D

http://garthwaite.com/assets/images/_DSC4763-gallery.jpg

CZ could build them under the Dan Wesson banner.

I think I need a smoke and a nap.. :D

tpd223

06-18-12, 09:45

Ref Germans using the HP, going with the "pics or it didn't happen" rule I surfed around for a copy of a pic that I have seen a number of times in various WWII books in the past.

Good copy here, guys on a smake break obviously carrying a HP;

http://www.dieselpunks.org/profiles/blogs/battle-of-the-bulge

I have seen other pics with German troops carrying High Powers, can't seem to find one though. One I recall had a troop marching to the Battle of the Bulge, he had a STG44 and a HP along with his obviously paratrooper knife clipped to the front of his smock, I recall thinking dude was particularly well armed for the time.

Note in one pic on the linked page ref the Battle of the Bulge the German trooper is carrying what is obviously an M1 carbine. I have both read and been told that the Germans would grab gear that they liked better than their own and use it, with little to no interference from the officers. Germans on the Russian front commonly carried captured PPSH41s and the like, as another example.

Beat Trash

06-18-12, 10:02

The Germans definitely used HI-Powers. They believed in issuing handguns to a larger portion of their army than We did/do. They also needed handguns to arm various entities tasked with overseeing and controlling the various occupying countries.

The German military snapped up handguns from every source they could. I"ve seen .32 acp Beretta pistols with Nazi markings.

With that said, the Hi Power would have been my first choice if I were fighting on the German side. If I were British or Canadian, than a Canadian made Hi Power would be what I would be staying up at nights trying to figure out how to procure.

I have a Hi Power that was my first 9mm. I bought it in 1989. Back when one either carried a 6 shot revolver or a 7 shot 1911, you didn't feel the need to bother carrying a reload with your 13 shot Hi Power.

Yes we now know better...

While the Hi Power is a great gun, mine is retired. As a tool, it does nothing for me that my Gen3 Glock 19 hasn't done better since 1999.

tpd223

06-18-12, 14:34

Due to being on occupation in every country they invaded the Germans had a great need to have pistols.
Hard to go out at night "off-duty" with your Mauser rifle and relax, but not at all wise to go out unarmed in a place where you stand out and everyone hates you.

Not advocating mind you, just observing.

JonInWA

06-19-12, 08:23

I've had 3 Hi-Powers-all of them in .40 caliber. Yeah, it's an addiction. My current one is a FN Mk III, with the only change being grips-for me, the Hi-Power is a bit too slim, and I use a set of Hogue fingergroove rubber grips to bulk it out just a bit to properly position my trigger finger. While Novak sights are certain effective and sexy, there's really no need to feel compelled to go to them, in my opinion-the OEM sights are actually quite good in their own right.

Surprisingly, my OEM triggerpull is actually quite good-a tad heavy, but smooth with a very crisp break-I've left good enough alone there, too.

I don't have any hammer bite issues with the OEM hammer-but be aware that its edges are a bit sharp, which may present some wear issues with concealment clothing, and to your hand on drawing/holstering.

It's a great gun, but I'm far more likely to carry one of my Glocks.

Best, Jon

jhs1969

06-19-12, 14:57

I have also been thinking about getting another Hi Power and having some mods done to it. One thing I can't figure out though is if the no-bite hammer mods will cure the bite for me or if I'll have to have the tang welded and extended. I've seen some of you comment that you have had no problems with hammer bite on the Hi Powers. I truly do not understand how you get away from it, they eat me up. The only gun that hurt me worse was the old style PPK's, with the PPK I had a bloody mess from the hammer bite and two cuts from each side of the slide:cray:

A stock 1911 eats the web of my hand up, the Hi Power is even worse. Even a Glock will bring blood within 50 rds or so from slide abrasion, again the PPK was the worse I've ever had. I'm not a pacticularly large guy nor have large meaty hands but I ride as high as I possibly can on an autoloader. Any thoughts on this one?

exiledtoIA

06-19-12, 15:12

Grant, you have some of the neatest toys.

Big fan of the gun (just a cool weapon).

Here is a pic of my ultra rare Alloy framed, Novak Custom.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Grant's%20weapons/HIPOWER_Side1.jpg

NAZI marked HP.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/GR%201911/FN_HP_Full.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/GR%201911/FN_HP_Nazi_Stamp.jpg

C4

okie john

06-19-12, 15:28

I've seen some of you comment that you have had no problems with hammer bite on the Hi Powers. I truly do not understand how you get away from it, they eat me up.

Hard to say. The Hi Power has two types of hammers, ring and spur. Generally, one type will bite a specific shooter but the other won't. I love the way a ring hammer looks on a BHP, but it bites me, while the spur hammer doesn't.

Try to find a BHP with the hammer type opposite to your previous one. If you grab it in your normal grip and slowly push the slide to the rear, you may be able to predict whether you'll have that problem.

If that doesn't work, you may be in for some welding.

Okie John

brickboy240

06-20-12, 09:55

My FN Hi-Power came with the spur hammer and I switched it to the rowel hammer because that is what came in the Cylinder & Slide kit.

I have never been bitten by either hammer and I have owned this pistol since 1996. Thousands of rounds through the thing, too. No bites.

I have never had a 1911, Glock or any auto bite my hand.

Seriously, it is a totally foreign thing to me.

- brickboy240