View Full Version : Help me pick my next gun!!!
k, it's time for me to get a new AR. I traded off the old one for another, and as soon as I have this sold off I'm going to buy something new. I'm looking at basically 3 options.
Option 1: Knight's SR-15 E3. http://grabagun.com/kac-sr-15-e3-223...ail-taupe.html
The only downside I see to this is price. Other than arguably Noveske barrels, nobody has any kind of an edge on KAC, and that I like. I also hear it's incredibly light.
Option 2: LaRue PredatAR. http://www.laruetactical.com/16%E2%8...l-predatar-556
Downsides are a lead time that sounds like it's right about 14 ish weeks right now. That's a long time... It also has a stainless steel LW barrel, which is great for weight, but not great for barrel life. LaRue has said expected barrel life is somewhere around 10k rounds. Obviously, that's more than I'll shoot this year, but probably not more than I'll shoot in the next 10 years. I'm sure the barrel would run fine after 10k, but I wouldn't expect the same .5 moa accuracy out of it.
Upsides are the pretty reasonable price, and you can't deny the thing is sexy..... LaRue makes great gear.
Option 3: 10.5 SBR. I don't know what exactly I'd get, probably something from BCM. I might consider going back to piston (my last rifle) since with such a short barrel weight won't be an issue, if I did that I'd probably go with a PWS upper and do my own lower.
Downsides to this are the moronically long wait times, and giving those homos at the BATFE all my personal info. I would probably also lose some accuracy at distance, although I rarely shoot ARs at serious distance.
Upsides are way more maneuverability, and even tax stamp included I would probably still spend less than I would going with the LaRue, and definitely spend less than going with the KAC.
Right now I'm tending to lean toward the KAC. I don't like the idea of being without a rifle for an SBR wait time, as well as giving up my favorite hunting rifle/caliber. An SBR is definitely in my future, but I'm sort of leaning toward SBR'ing the KAC lower later on? Can I do this? Has anybody shot theirs off a bench to see what it groups like? I imagine it's not as great as the LaRue, but I'm hoping it still groups pretty tight!
Thanks in advance for your advice and your experience!
I'd probably get a BCM 11.5" SBR instead of a 10.5 they have a write up on why they make the 11.5" instead.
Why_BCM_chose_the_11_5_SBR_over_the_10_5 (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_138/174764__Q__Why_BCM_chose_the_11_5_SBR_over_the_10_5_.html)
If money wasn't a concern, the KAC would be an easy choice. Otherwise, I would go with the BCM without any hard feelings in the least.
Actually, with the 14.5 middy BCM I've been using, I may very well choose that above all three options you've got listed.
If money wasn't a concern, the KAC would be an easy choice. Otherwise, I would go with the BCM without any hard feelings in the least.
Actually, with the 14.5 middy BCM I've been using, I may very well choose that above all three options you've got listed.
Money is a little bit of a concern, but I'd rather have something I'm 100% completely happy with than go cheaper.
Why would you pick the 14.5? And I hadn't thought about a 14.5, I didn't want to have to pin a muzzle device.
snakedoctor
06-15-12, 14:06
Mark LaRue stated that if you do exceed 10,000 rounds and want the barrel replaced they will do it for free.
CarbonCycles
06-15-12, 14:09
Mark LaRue stated that if you do exceed 10,000 rounds and want the barrel replaced they will do it for free.
Please source your information
snakedoctor
06-15-12, 17:01
AR15.COM
LaRue Tactical Industry Section
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_219/219593_Rebarreling_question_.html
2nd Post. I thought I remembered it said for free but it doesnt in the thread. However, I did talk to the LaRue Customer Service and they said when the time comes it would just be the price of shipping.
We have had numerous threads of this ilk, most of them posted by new members. I fail to see how we can help you. You already seem to be aware of the positive and negatives of your choices.
What if 50 people respond and the stats come out almost equal? What do you do then?
Money is a little bit of a concern, but I'd rather have something I'm 100% completely happy with than go cheaper.
Why would you pick the 14.5? And I hadn't thought about a 14.5, I didn't want to have to pin a muzzle device.
In that case, go with the 16".
We have had numerous threads of this ilk, most of them posted by new members. I fail to see how we can help you. You already seem to be aware of the positive and negatives of your choices.
What if 50 people respond and the stats come out almost equal? What do you do then?
So people can make me aware of information that I was previously unaware of, as well as share their experience. I wasn't aware that Mark LaRue offered barrel changes after 10,000 rounds at no charge, and that completely changes my perception of the PredatAR.
When it comes to the AR platform, I don't know everything so I come here to differ to the experts that do. If all people ever did was read and never post, there would be no forum to read. I'm sure that these people have some valuable insights that will help me make my decision based on my needs.
I am not hatin' on you. I am just pointing out that we have had numerous threads like this and in the end VERY RARELY do we ever hear that someone actually took everything into account, made the purchase and then came back to tell us.
I guess at the end of the day, I hope we hear back from you and that you explain to us how you reached your decision. That may then help others when they ask the same question.
So people can make me aware of information that I was previously unaware of, as well as share their experience. I wasn't aware that Mark LaRue offered barrel changes after 10,000 rounds at no charge, and that completely changes my perception of the PredatAR.
When it comes to the AR platform, I don't know everything so I come here to differ to the experts that do. If all people ever did was read and never post, there would be no forum to read. I'm sure that these people have some valuable insights that will help me make my decision based on my needs.
I wasn't aware that Mark LaRue offered barrel changes after 10,000 rounds at no charge, and that completely changes my perception of the PredatAR.
Big difference between barrel changes at no charge, and not getting billed for a barrel change. With one you get a free barrel, with the other, you are getting shop time after you buy a barrel. Either way, you are paying for it as there is no such thing as "free".
I might have missed where you said what you plan on doing with this AR. If its for part of a collection, go with whatever you like. If its for a particular purpose, its hard for us to make a guess without knowing what it is.
Big difference between barrel changes at no charge, and not getting billed for a barrel change. With one you get a free barrel, with the other, you are getting shop time after you buy a barrel. Either way, you are paying for it as there is no such thing as "free".
I might have missed where you said what you plan on doing with this AR. If its for part of a collection, go with whatever you like. If its for a particular purpose, its hard for us to make a guess without knowing what it is.
You are right, I should have clarified. I am finishing up a degree in criminal justice, and am looking at probably taking a job at a smaller LE agency in the next couple of years. There is a very good chance this will be a duty rifle. I also use my AR as my go to home defense gun, which is where the SBR is very attractive. I shoot fairly regularly, have taken a few carbine classes and look to take more. I will absolutely be hunting everything up to white tails with it, which is one reason the PredatAR was so attractive.
Basically, I was unhappy with my previous gun because it was piston, and not being an SBR or shooting suppressed much at all the only thing I gained from it was weight. I want a light, fighting rifle that is accurate enough to do some hunting with as well.
And IG- I'm trackin with ya ;) I wasn't meaning to seem pissy, I really never take into account the massive amount of moronic dreck you as a mod have to put up with on a day to day basis.
You are right, I should have clarified. I am finishing up a degree in criminal justice, and am looking at probably taking a job at a smaller LE agency in the next couple of years. There is a very good chance this will be a duty rifle. I also use my AR as my go to home defense gun, which is where the SBR is very attractive. I shoot fairly regularly, have taken a few carbine classes and look to take more. I will absolutely be hunting everything up to white tails with it, which is one reason the PredatAR was so attractive.
Basically, I was unhappy with my previous gun because it was piston, and not being an SBR or shooting suppressed much at all the only thing I gained from it was weight. I want a light, fighting rifle that is accurate enough to do some hunting with as well.
And IG- I'm trackin with ya ;) I wasn't meaning to seem pissy, I really never take into account the massive amount of moronic dreck you as a mod have to put up with on a day to day basis.
With the addition of hunting to your needs of a duty and HD rifle, I would suggest the 16" bbl options. Between the KAC and the LaRue, it is a toss up. With the KAC, you will get longevity and possibly a very slight advantage in reliability. With the LaRue you will get a slight advantage in accuracy. I would probably go with the KAC, as the advantage in accuracy would only be (potentially) relevant at distances exceeding acceptable hunting practices for .223.
As for LaRue replacing the bbl, I would venture to say their customer service is second to none. If you legitimately wear out the bbl, I would fully anticipate them to take care of you.
ETA: If you know the possible department(s) you will try to join, make sure you are aware of their rifle policies as this may play a role in your decision. It is not unheard of for a department to only allow certain brands (read: Bushmaster, etc). Even fewer departments will allow SBR's. Make sure your research includes the potential department policies.
Tough choice. As stated, I'd prefer a KAC in a gunfight and the 'tAR in the woods. In reality it's probably splitting hairs. Both could be very capable in either role.
Yet, I see only 1 solution. Get both. Seriously. I've got an AR for pretty much any and every situation. After many compromises and wasted cash, I've come to the conclusion that, as with anything, expecting a single solution to cover multiple roles/purposes means making a compromise of some kind.
Ya better jump quick on the 'tAR if that's your choice as Mr. LaRue thinks his rifles are worth 12% more, starting in July.
Hold up. A free 10,000 round barrel change? Please clarify further. I didn't read that in what i read on larue and I would jump on that, given classes and practice at regular intervals that you have stated. That's just a few years at your said schedule. Larue is top notch tits, from what I've heard and shot.
However, if your department allowed shorties, I would imagine it would be to your advantage to have one depending on department policies.
All good points, thanks much. One other thing I thought of, for you guys who own KAC rifles, do they cycle steel ammo ok? If I'm gonna pay 1800 bucks for a rifle, it damn well better run anything and everything!!!
Beat Trash
06-16-12, 08:53
All good points, thanks much. One other thing I thought of, for you guys who own KAC rifles, do they cycle steel ammo ok? If I'm gonna pay 1800 bucks for a rifle, it damn well better run anything and everything!!!
If I can afford to spend $1,800 dollars for a rifle, I can afford to feed it quality ammunition.
I don't own a KAC rifle, so I can't comment first hand. I would assume it should function with steel cased ammo. But one can not expect it to perform with steel cased ammunition that is of lesser quality.
If all you expect is for it to go "bang" then it's a good combination. If you want to utilize the accuracy potential of your KAC gun, then buy quality ammunition.
I have a few Colt 6920's in my safe. I've had them for a while. They do everything I need of a carbine. While the idea of the LaRue PredatAr intrigues me, I can't justify replacing one of my 6920's. Someday maybe...
If you intend to become a LEO, look at some of the agencies you may be interested in. Some agencies do not permit privately owned guns. Some do, but are specific as to type and/or brand. SBR's are going to be rare.
Many agencies will not authorize some high end guns only because they are unfamiliar to the individual who wrote the procedure. Not all LEO's are "Gun Guys". This includes firearm trainers. You'd be surprised....
You could find yourself at an agency that will not authorize a LaRue or a KAC, yet will authorize a Bushmaster. Only because the person who wrote the procedure had heard of Bushmaster.
Big difference between barrel changes at no charge, and not getting billed for a barrel change. With one you get a free barrel, with the other, you are getting shop time after you buy a barrel. Either way, you are paying for it as there is no such thing as "free".
.
All I saw was LaRue stating that the barrel could be replaced. I didn't see anything about money in that thread. Just that it was possible. Am I missing something?
All I saw was LaRue stating that the barrel could be replaced. I didn't see anything about money in that thread. Just that it was possible. Am I missing something?
Agreed. I don't see how that would be a good business decision. If he gives away free bbls he loses money. I also think it would be listed in the ads if the rifles came with lifetime bbls. If he was that generous I would suspect it would be replaced when the bbl is worn to a measurable standard - not, hey I hit 10,000 rounds! Please install a new bbl. I have a PredatAR and do not expect LaRue to give me anything free for it unless there is a warranty issue. I don't see me wearing out the bbl as a warranty issue. That is normal wear and tear.
FWIW, I've personally watched Pat McNamara shoot a sub MOA group using a LaRue stainless barreled rifle that had over 18,000 rounds through it.
To the OP: you really can't go wrong with any of the options you asked about. It really comes down to budget and personal preference. I agree with those who warned you about LE agency policies though. Most are woefully restrictive and many armorers and instructors will not even know what a PredatAR or KAC are. It's sad, but it's the world in which we live.
I plan on feeding this nicer ammo than the steel stuff, I just don't want to be limited if and when the shit hits the fan.
And depending on how the dept. regulations pan out, I can find a nice stripped lower to accommodate the idiots in the armory ;)
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