My "jack of all trades" build

[SpyderMan2k4]

Last week I finished up my latest build. For my purposes, I wanted it to be more of a jack of all trades, master of none gun. Please note: This is NOT intended to be a lightweight build, but I did use a few components to cut back on weight.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/spyderman2k4/2012-06-15_13-44-13_955.jpg

Here's the specs:

Upper:
BCM 16" LW hammer forged middy with BCM BCG
Cut down FSB, cold blued, and painted with high temp BBQ flat black
Troy DOA rear sight
Troy Alpha 13" rail with built in front sight
Fenix TK11 R2 in a VLTOR QD offsent mount
Trijicon TR24G in a Trijicon/Bobro mount
Magpul RSA
Modified XTM rail covers and modified AFG2
Battle Comp 2.0
Gunfighter Mod 4 charging handle

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/spyderman2k4/2012-06-15_13-45-04_373.jpg

Lower:
S&W stripped, G&R LPK, Geissele SD-C, BAD ASS safety (used the crank and the hybrid levers, love them!)
MOE+ grip
VLTOR A5 extension tube/buffer/spring, Magpul STR stock
Magpul ASAP and MS3 sling
Magpul BAD lever

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/spyderman2k4/2012-06-15_13-44-46_234.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/spyderman2k4/2012-06-15_13-44-25_515.jpg

My last rifle (sold to fund this) was a 16" midlength with a govt. profile and a YHM rail. The weight wasn't bad- until I added the Accupoint. The sight/mount made it just a little too heavy for the long days, so I decided to go with a lighter weight barrel and rail.

I'm pretty happy with the STR. Sadly, it doesn't lock up as tight as the CTR, however I like having a good spot for batteries (if a gun has a light, it might as well carry extra batteries!). Plus, for an optic that requires a consistent cheek weld, it's far superior in that regard.

In terms of versatility (the object of this build), it's tough to beat a low power variable. Also the reason I like the ms3, versatility. For anyone that hasn't tried it, it's a lot more comfortable and better thought out than the ms2.

This is the third build I've used Troy TRX extremes/alpha rails. While they are lightweight and super low profile, they do tend to warm up pretty quick. I modified the XTM covers as well as the AFG to mount directly to the handguard (no rail sections necessary :D ) to give some heat protection, but still keep it lightweight and low profile.

I couldn't be happier- I put about 300 rounds through it a couple days ago. I can't say enough good things about the manufacturers of a lot of these parts. The Geissele trigger was very expensive... it's also by far the best trigger I've ever felt, and I KNOW it'll be 100% safe and reliable. The BAD ASS safety is also incredible. I've made several posts in the thread on it- couldn't be happier. Also, between the battle comp and A5 buffer system, it's incredibly soft shooting.

It wasn't cheap to put together, but it's definitely the nicest shooting/handling carbine I've put together thus far (7 between guns for myself and others).

[ALCOAR]

If only 5% of the threads in this sub forum were like the above I would at least read more often in it, if not post a little in it as this is an excellent thread beyond what someone may feel about your custom build.

Now about your build...anybody knocks that spec list and they must be sporting a safe full of shrubmasters.

Anytime I see a BAD-ASS and a SD model trigger on the same lower, I know instantly that the owner of the rifle is a serious, hard use end user....you just don't accidentally fall upon the uber combo of controls like that...well you don't have the ST but nobody is perfect anyways;)

[rob_s]

This is the third build I've used Troy TRX extremes/alpha rails. While they are lightweight and super low profile, they do tend to warm up pretty quick. I modified the XTM covers as well as the AFG to mount directly to the handguard (no rail sections necessary :D ) to give some heat protection, but still keep it lightweight and low profile.

Can you describe your process here? Possibly with pictures?

I have several of the same or similar handguard and it's a complaint of mine as well, as well as the fact that to do anything about it you have to bolt on rail sections (although Troy has released their squid plugs finally).

[Atg336]

Can you describe your process here? Possibly with pictures?

I have several of the same or similar handguard and it's a complaint of mine as well, as well as the fact that to do anything about it you have to bolt on rail sections (although Troy has released their squid plugs finally).

2nd this!
One of my main reasons why I'm staying arms distance from tubes.

[SpyderMan2k4]

Disclaimer: I realize this is a bit of work, but when there's no other options (at least not till Troy or Magpul steals my idea), ya gotta do what ya gotta do ;)

This is the second Alpha rail I've given the XTM treatment. I played around with different covers, but the XTM seems to be the best. It has the thickness needed, but also the size of them is perfect. You can mount one every other hole of the handguard and have them sit flush. If I were designing a dedicated cover for these handguards, I'd start with the XTM dimensions.

First, glue the XTM pieces together. I feel this makes them a little more rigid. Doesn't have to be some fancy epoxy, most high strength glues should do the trick. Just hit a couple little contact points (sorry for the glare).

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/spyderman2k4/CIMG1431.jpg

Next, I cut off the wings. They are no longer of use to us, and only get in the way. The first time I did this, I used a hacksaw. It was tough but I got it done (keep in mind, I did 15 for the first rail). The second time (for my carbine) I used a 4" angle grinder with cutting wheel. That was easier :D I also used a dremel to sand the bottom flat.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/spyderman2k4/CIMG1437.jpg

Here's the difference cutting off the wings makes. It allows the XTM panels to sit MUCH lower. In fact, it barely adds any size to the handguard. Also, because it sits lower to the handguard, it'll mount more solid.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/spyderman2k4/CIMG1440.jpg

Next, mark the centers. I didn't bother measuring, just give it a good eyeball.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/spyderman2k4/CIMG1445.jpg

The size of bit will be determine by the size of screws you use. The first gun I put these on I used 8-32 screws. Because I've used three of these handguards and only ever mounted one railed section, I've got a lot of the little mounting screws left over. That's what I used for mine, they are 10-32. That's probably the biggest size screw I'd use. Either way, trial and error will help you find the right size bit. Just start small and work your way up do you can JUST fit the screw through the hole. For this step, a hand drill is fine.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/spyderman2k4/CIMG1446.jpg

The countersink pretty much requires a drill press. Again, trial and error will help you find the right depth. If you don't have a drill press, a countersink isn't really that necessary. You just get a better fit and finish with one, but functionally, you could do without.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/spyderman2k4/CIMG1449.jpg

I will say, make sure you've got extra XTM panels. Once you get setup it's smooth sailing, but expect to sacrifice a couple when finding the right depth for the countersink, etc. Again, just go a little at a time... find the right depth and set it!

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/spyderman2k4/CIMG1467.jpg

Here's the screw sitting flush

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/spyderman2k4/CIMG1475.jpg

For the backing plate I settled on 1/2" x 1/8" aluminum (from Lowes or Home Depot). This keeps it light weight, but is still very solid and easy to work with, and allows you to mount the panels nicely. Here I am centerpunching the first hole. Home Depot sells tapping kits for pretty cheap, again, just pay attention to what thread you need.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/spyderman2k4/CIMG1522.jpg

Measure the spacing carefully. Placement of the holes on the backing plate is the most important step in the whole process. The best way to do it is do one hole at a time. Drill and tap your first hole, then mount it (with a panel) to the rail to hold it in place. Then measure and mark the next hole. Drill, tap, repeat. I've found (the hard way) doing them all at once, no matter how carefully you measure, increases the chance of some being off center. Once they are off, it's a total pain to mount the panels to. Hopefully that makes sense.

Here are my three backing plates, drilled and tapped. From here, hopefully you can figure it out ;)

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/spyderman2k4/CIMG1531.jpg

Be very careful how tight you mount them, especially if you used a countersink. If you tighten them with everything you've got, you'll probably break it. However, you should still be able to go beyond snug and still have it hold up fine. I've never had any problems with the durability of them or any coming loose. As expected, I'd recommend using a thread locker just to keep these solid.

Hopefully this was helpful, and hopefully someone else makes a ton of money off my methods and ideas :D

[SeriousStudent]

SpyderMan2k4, thank you very much for the time and effort you spent explaining the "how and why" of the modifications you did. It's very helpful.

[SpyderMan2k4]

SpyderMan2k4, thank you very much for the time and effort you spent explaining the "how and why" of the modifications you did. It's very helpful.

My pleasure. I know ive read a ton here thats been informative and helpful, so if im able to contribute anything its the least i can do

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

[Wiggity]

Awesome post, I really like the rifle. It seems to be the ultimate compromise.

[SteveL]

Awesome rifle. It reminds me ALOT of mine. I have the same complaint about the TRX-Extreme that you do. It gets effin' HOT. I have a Noveske NSR on order that's going to replace the TRX-E. By itself it'll be just as hot, but there's a heat shield and proprietary plastic pieces soon to be released for it that (I hope) should help with the heat.

[broylz]

very nice build and thanks for the info. i really like your build and am planning something similar.

my first is a stag 2 with a yhm customizable rifle tube and a millett dms. that will be my wifes rifle when i get mine going. :) wwill pretty well be the same but looking to get a bcm upper with a 14.5 lw and pinned bc or surefire. will use a CTR and VTAC alpha with a viper pst 1-4x

[intermission]

I love the setup you have. That trick with the xtm panels is pretty sweet, I might just have to copy you on that. I tried paracord wrapping, but the texture sucks once your hands start sweating, and it doesn't look as good. I'm all for function over form, but why choose one or the other when you can have both.

[SpyderMan2k4]

I really like the look and feel of the xtms in general, so it works out that they work well for this. I agree that function takes precedence over form, but no reason to give up form if you dont have to:D

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

[SpyderMan2k4]

If only 5% of the threads in this sub forum were like the above I would at least read more often in it, if not post a little in it as this is an excellent thread beyond what someone may feel about your custom build.

Now about your build...anybody knocks that spec list and they must be sporting a safe full of shrubmasters.

Anytime I see a BAD-ASS and a SD model trigger on the same lower, I know instantly that the owner of the rifle is a serious, hard use end user....you just don't accidentally fall upon the uber combo of controls like that...well you don't have the ST but nobody is perfect anyways;)

If i didnt already have the lower i would have gotten a short throw. Any/all future builds will incorporate the 45/90. While i havent felt one personally, its not hard to see how much nicer it is.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

[Dr.Watson]

I had the same setup- 13" battle rail and the AFG, how do you like it? I had a hard time getting a solid grip on it without gloves on when I started running it hard. I wound up going to 2 handstops one just forward of the tension screws and the other by where the AFG used to be.

[SpyderMan2k4]

I had the same setup- 13" battle rail and the AFG, how do you like it? I had a hard time getting a solid grip on it without gloves on when I started running it hard. I wound up going to 2 handstops one just forward of the tension screws and the other by where the AFG used to be.

I love the afg. For me, it forces my hand up high (as it is supposed to), to the point where my thumb rests along the top rail. Part of my palm and the drumstick of my thumb ride along the side of the handguard, which is why the xtm panels there are so beneficial to me even with the afg.

For what its worth on my last build i had a tangodown vfg. I liked it but was unnecessary for my grip style (no need for a full size grip when using it mostly as a handstop). I liked the storage for batteries, but between the pg and stock ive got that covered. I figured (and seems true so far) the afg is the best for mounting directly to the handguard (in the spirit of saving ounces where i could, as well as keeping it low profile, i didnt want to attach a rail to the handguard just to put the afg on the rail). For me, it seems to be the best setup.

I can see how the afg could be harder for some to use based on their specific hand placement and shooting style, but i think thats more related to the afg in general opposed to how the afg works in conjunction with the trx/alpha rails. The afg works for me, but theres a reason theres still a hundred different grips on the market- something for everyone
Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

[TehLlama]

The direct attach XTM and AFG are very, very nice, and I too am starting to really like the roughly 8lb rifle including the TR24T as a tool for most any job - very nice.

I think it might be possible to come up with a somehow nicer setup, but only by spending a lot more money and even more time. Very well done.

[jaxman7]

Nice build and ingenuity man. Thanks for the time you put into explaining the XTM mod! Enjoy the rifle.

-Jax

[SpyderMan2k4]

Thanks for the compliments and kind words. Hopefully the ideas and info can be helpful to others in their projects and builds.

[davidjinks]

OP

I didn't see it mentioned in the thread...

You have a SD-C trigger but those pins don't look like standard Geissle pins. All of my SD-C pins are dimpled.

Solid build and great walk through about the XTM panels.

[Ellis]

Nice rifle and post. Love the ingenious magpul mounting. I have an evolution rail and afg so i think im going to have to give that a try.

[m4fun]

Spyderman,

Great post and thanks for stepping up to the plate even going the extra mile showing how you have the XTM manuals installed. Was checking out if it was an option with my Mega upper/rail and no dice - preset screw holes not lined up with the Magpul gods...

[zombie killer]

Love it! Thanks for taking the to
explain everything.

[wellnerde]

Your build is awesome. You are giving me the itch to modify my gun now and add a Battlecomp, A5 extension tube, and STR stock.

How is the center of gravity balance with your setup and the STR stock? How do you like the STR stock?

[SpyderMan2k4]

OP

I didn't see it mentioned in the thread...

You have a SD-C trigger but those pins don't look like standard Geissle pins. All of my SD-C pins are dimpled.

Solid build and great walk through about the XTM panels.

That's interesting about the pins. I definitely used the ones that came with the trigger, so I really don't have any idea :confused:



Your build is awesome. You are giving me the itch to modify my gun now and add a Battlecomp, A5 extension tube, and STR stock.

How is the center of gravity balance with your setup and the STR stock? How do you like the STR stock?

Honestly, there were two major inspirations for using the parts I did. The first, I built a lightweight rifle for my wife (which was inspired by many other threads and lightweight builds- that led to the LW barrel, chopped FSB, and Troy handguard). The second inspiration was a post I came across (I believe when reading about battle comps), I saw someone say something along the lines of "a Geissele trigger, Battle Comp, and A5 system would be one of the nicest shooting guns out there." That post was followed by a lot of positive responses. That caused me to research each part extensively, and here I am. Moral of the story is, getting the itch for building the best firearms possible is quite contagious at this forum :D


The center of gravity is pretty much perfect... or at least as good as I'm gonna get it! With or without a magazine, it seems to balance between the pivot pin and the rear edge of the handguard. A huge improvement over my last setup, with was very front heavy. So as for saving weight and moving the center of gravity more toward the center, it's mission accomplished.

As for the STR- As stated, initially the battery storage was actually a big part of the reason for the purchase, and the nice cheekweld was a bonus. Upon receiving it I was a little unsure about it. I've been spoiled with several CTR stocks and they lock up as tight as you can imagine. While it makes no difference for function, I personally like the feel of as solid of a gun as I can get. The STR has a little bit of play (very very slight back and forth, and a little more side to side). After reading a number of reviews, I came to find it's quite common (which was actually a let down- I was hoping if it was just me I could exchange for a new one that locked up really tight- oh well). It's still tighter than stocks without a locking lever.

After having used it a bit over the last couple weeks (both dry and live), I love it. The battery storage is practically an afterthought (though it's still a nice feature), and I don't notice any play during actual use. The reason I love it is the cheekweld. It definitely is nicer than CTRs (what I have the most experience with) and similar shaped stocks. It's not really an issue with red dots, but with the 1-4, even on 1 I have to have a pretty consistent cheek weld. It's not that it was hard to get with the CTR, but the STR is just more natural.

I hope this helps.

[fallenromeo]

Thanks for explaining about the XTM panels. I will have to try that for my Alpha rail.

[SpyderMan2k4]

I recently got a PM asking me to explain a little better how I attached the AFG, so I figured I'd just post it in here for all to see. I have to apologize because all I have is my finished product. It would be much easier to explain and to understand if I had step by step photos, but I will do my best to explain. (Sorry for the crappy gritty pictures)

First I cut the wings off just like I did on the rail covers so it can sit much tighter. Next, I drilled 2 holes to mount it to the long back plate that came with the rail.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/spyderman2k4/image_zps4e4e77e8.jpg (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/spyderman2k4/media/image_zps4e4e77e8.jpg.html)

I put the first (front) hole in the center of the front part that locks together. The back hole goes wherever the backing plate dictates.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/spyderman2k4/image_zpsa83fa941.jpg (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/spyderman2k4/media/image_zpsa83fa941.jpg.html)

Drill both from the rail side. Be careful with the second hole and don't drill too deep (you don't want to hit the angled part if you can avoid it). I can't remember what diameter of bit I used (maybe I posted earlier in the thread? Whatever will just allow the threaded portion of the 10/32 screw).

You will then need to use a MUCH smaller bit to drill a hole in the angled portion, whatever bit size will allow your allen wrench to pass through.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/spyderman2k4/image_zpsf0341eb2.jpg (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/spyderman2k4/media/image_zpsf0341eb2.jpg.html)

Now for the most tedious part. Take the halves apart. Because there is no way to countersink the back hole with a bit, the only way I've come up with is to dremel out enough from each half for the head of the screw to sit down into. Because your hand doesn't come in contact with it, it doesn't need to be completely flush, but it does need to sit in a little bit so you have enough threads exposed for mounting. Make sure you are happy with how it fits, because after the next step there's no going back. This is also a good time to be sure whether you want to have the bump or have the flat part installed, because you won't be able to change it.

Because there's a lot of drilling into thinner areas, I basically fill everything with JB weld and make it one solid piece, and eventually add JB weld to the rail side to reinforce everything. The tricky part is once it is one solid piece, there is no way to get the back screw in, so we need to make sure it is in place BEFORE we JB weld it all together.

While the two halves are apart, place the screw in the back hole, then put the halves together (don't forget to put in the bump or the flat insert). If you are happy with how it fits, JB weld it all together, just avoid the holes (especially the back hole where the screw is. Add some JB weld around the holes on the rail side for reinforcement.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/spyderman2k4/image_zps0d34010d.jpg (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/spyderman2k4/media/image_zps0d34010d.jpg.html)

Once it sets, countersink the front hole (again, a drill press is highly recommended. I'm not even sure if it can be done decently with just a hand drill). Just go a little at a time until the head of the screw sits flush. If you go to deep you'll really weaken it and potentially ruin it.

Note: The screw that goes through the whole grip that sits into rail slots will get in the way. To keep it clean looking, I cut the head off the screw and JB welded it into place, along with the nut on the other side.

And the finished product

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/spyderman2k4/image_zps03206265.jpg (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/spyderman2k4/media/image_zps03206265.jpg.html)

If any of it wasn't clear or anyone has any questions, just let me know!