Interesting lessons learned

[themighty9mm]

Hi all. I dont post here much. Lurk often. Just thought I would share a interesting lesson I have learned along my travels for my perfect fighting rifle.
Big lesson learned.... Sometimes just because it looks cool, or seems valid. Untill actual long term personal use, its all a theory. And maybe a somewhat expensive one at that.

See, months back I had begun to look into "upgrades" for my rifle. I saw a members post and it had a picture in it. I think the post was called "LMT fun". At first glance I thought to myself my gawd, that one rifle seems to answer all my wants and had the IMO perfect look to it. I had shot my colt 6920 well over 1000 rounds. Did it to get a feel for it and find out what I think I need. I knew I wanted a rail. I knew I wanted a forgrip to give me a bit more leverage. I knew I wanted a fatter grip. I knew I diddnt want all the bulk of the carry handle, along with to free up rail space. But did not want to lose the adjustments or the strength of the A2 sight.

So after looking at options and being somewhat lost, then finding what I thought to be the perfect rifle for me. I began buying parts. Bought parts to match the guys rifle. Again, its what I thought I wanted. Bought the KAC RAS rail. Came with covers and a KAC forgrip. Bought a larue FUG after, clearly not enough use with the KAC version. Bought the Magpul MOE grip, and bought the LMT rear sight. Finished with a light and magpul XTM rail covers.

Well the theory is perfect, but the execution turned out to be poor, and in the end costly. Bear in mind with each new part I did take it to the range for a few houndred rounds to make sure I was happy. And initially I was... At least untill everything came together.

I found the RAS rail to be perfect for my uses. Easy user instal, solid. Not free float, but I'm also not shooting off a bench often. So that turned out well. The LMT rear sight, has been everything and more I hoped for. The moe grip turned out to be just as I hoped. Gave me a bit more girth and the texturing is nice aswell. The larue FUG. I like the idea alot. I bought it initiall as I wasnt sure exactly what length I wanted and thought the KAC version was to long. Though the QD feature would be a nifty adition aswell. I have used it for a bit now. And in the end found it to be to heavy for what it actually is. Also found the QD lever to be more in the way than anything else. Along with that, where I have my surefire m600c mounted there is simply not enough room and one of the other has to move. All of this is not a problem with the KAC version. The KAC version is lighter, just as easy to attatch, and truth be told not really much longer. Turned out to be more of a mental thing than anything. Also the larue was very expensive IMO. At least for what it actually is anyways. Guess its what I get when at the time I had more money than common sense. The surefire m600c. Has been brilliant. Maybe a bit much, at 200 lumens. But I am endlessly impressed by its size and weight to its performance. It is my most recent, and for now final addition untill I can afford an optic. The magpul XTM rail covers. Sure, IMO they look cool. But turns out they are difficult to put on. And once on, a near permanent fixture that will be alot of work and cursing to remove. I tried following magpuls intructions. Diddnt work for me. I had to use a multi tool can opener to pry them off. Now I have switched back to what was essentially free. The KAC panels, and KAC forgrip. In the end it turns out between my poor initial decision on forgrip and rail covers. I threw away about $140 I could have loaded nearly 1K rounds of ammunition with that money.

I know its very long post and it goes along the lines of the thread "go shoot the gun". I though I did myself. Unfortunatly not long term enough to make a good call. Maybe this will help the next guy save some money

[JR TACTICAL]

sound like you did not do too bad, I mean...If rail pannels and a VFG are all your not happy with I would consider that a win. You bought quality parts and sometimes you have to try out things to know what you like, just ask my wife, if I could have back all the money that I spent on things that I tried out, sold, and lost money on I would have enough to buy a rifle or 3:(

Its nothing that you could not trade or sell here on the EE and try to get some of your money back or try out something else.

At the end of the day, as you stated "go shoot the thing", take a class to further your training and have fun and be safe

[pira114]

That's not too bad really. Sometimes, even if you've done your homework and put the rounds downrange, you just have to try shit to see if it works for you.

Some things that work for most, don't work for me. I don't know till I know.

One thing we all learn eventually is that to have your "best" set up, it just ain't cheap. And there's always trial and error.

[Brahmzy]

Not sure if serious.

That's what this is all about. If it wasn't we'd all be shooting the same rifle - probably a 20" HBAR.

You HAVE to experiment. I HAD to try the AFG to find out I hated the thing. I had to try the new BCM grip even though I knew it was too skinny. I had to try XTM panels to find out they were too fat for my liking. And so on. I've built entire rifles that I've soon parted out for one reason or another, if I didn't like the way they handled.

LOL. Most of us probably have quite a bit lost in "experimentation."
Part of finding out what works for you.

Of course I wish I knew "back then" what I know now.

[karlglen101]

Hi all. I dont post here much. Lurk often. Just thought I would share a interesting lesson I have learned along my travels for my perfect fighting rifle.
Big lesson learned.... Sometimes just because it looks cool, or seems valid. Untill actual long term personal use, its all a theory. And maybe a somewhat expensive one at that.
See, months back I had begun to look into "upgrades" for my rifle. I saw a members post and it had a picture in it. I think the post was called "LMT fun". At first glance I thought to myself my gawd, that one rifle seems to answer all my wants and had the IMO perfect look to it. I had shot my colt 6920 well over 1000 rounds. Did it to get a feel for it and find out what I think I need. I knew I wanted a rail. I knew I wanted a forgrip to give me a bit more leverage. I knew I wanted a fatter grip. I knew I diddnt want all the bulk of the carry handle, along with to free up rail space. But did not want to lose the adjustments or the strength of the A2 sight.
So after looking at options and being somewhat lost, then finding what I thought to be the perfect rifle for me. I began buying parts. Bought parts to match the guys rifle. Again, its what I thought I wanted. Bought the KAC RAS rail. Came with covers and a KAC forgrip. Bought a larue FUG after, clearly not enough use with the KAC version. Bought the Magpul MOE grip, and bought the LMT rear sight. Finished with a light and magpul XTM rail covers.
Well the theory is perfect, but the execution turned out to be poor, and in the end costly. Bear in mind with each new part I did take it to the range for a few houndred rounds to make sure I was happy. And initially I was... At least untill everything came together. I found the RAS rail to be perfect for my uses. Easy user instal, solid. Not free float, but I'm also not shooting off a bench often. So that turned out well. The LMT rear sight, has been everything and more I hoped for. The moe grip turned out to be just as I hoped. Gave me a bit more girth and the texturing is nice aswell. The larue FUG. I like the idea alot. I bought it initiall as I wasnt sure exactly what length I wanted and thought the KAC version was to long. Though the QD feature would be a nifty adition aswell. I have used it for a bit now. And in the end found it to be to heavy for what it actually is. Also found the QD lever to be more in the way than anything else. Along with that, where I have my surefire m600c mounted there is simply not enough room and one of the other has to move. All of this is not a problem with the KAC version. The KAC version is lighter, just as easy to attatch, and truth be told not really much longer. Turned out t be more of a mental thing than anything. Also the larue was very expensive. Guess its what I get when at the time I had more money than common sense. The surefire m600c. Has been brilliant. Maybe a bit much, at 200 lumens. But I am endlessly impressed by its size and weight to its performance. And my most recent and for now final addition untill I can afford an optic. The magpul XTM rail covers. Sure IMO they look cool. But turns out they are difficult to put on. And once on a near permanent fixture that will be alot of work and cursing to remove. I tried following magpuls intructions. Diddnt work for me. I had to use a multi tool can opener to pry them off. Now I have switched back to what was essentially free. The KAC panels, and KAC forgrip. In the end it turns out between my poor initial decision on forgrip and rail covers. I threw away about $140 I could have loaded nearly 1K rounds of ammunition with that money.
I know its very long post and it goes along the lines of the thread "go shoot the gun". I though I did myself. Unfortunatly not long term enough to make a good call. Maybe this will help the next guy save some money

Sell your excess stuff off. I'm newer here, but didn't see a WTS board. AR15.com has an exchange forum, stuff flies off the shelf quickly there. Lesson learned!
Fortunately for me, my lesson was a bit cheaper. I bought Magpul XT rail panels for my DDM4-V7 and found out they add too much girth for a slick tube top.

[TucsonFX4]

Sell your excess stuff off. I'm newer here, but didn't see a WTS board. AR15.com has an exchange forum, stuff flies off the shelf quickly there. Lesson learned!
Fortunately for me, my lesson was a bit cheaper. I bought Magpul XT rail panels for my DDM4-V7 and found out they add too much girth for a slick tube top.

There is a large EE (equipment exchange) section near the bottom of the forum listings. Stuff for sale, trade, or to buy.

To the OP, I agree with what the others have been saying. It is impossible to build a "perfect" rifle without extensive experience with various options. If you have a buddy that is willing to let you borrow items so you don't have to buy them, then you are lucky. Otherwise, everyone else has to do what you did, buy items to find out what works for you.

[dwhitehorne]

This is why we all have a box of parts somewhere in the house. Some of us have the AR box, the AK box, a holster box, the shotgun stuff and much more. Wait until you decide you don't need a quad rail to hold a flash light. Then the fun really begins. :D David

[Noodles]

Again, its what I thought I wanted.

x1000!

If you really want a bad move, build a gun entirely based on the coolest looking sample from a 'picture thread', it'll be heavy and expensive no doubt.

I was lucky on my first build, made all my money back, but yea, wrong barrel, lpk, rail, grip, stock, buffer, trigger, brake, sights. I basically kept the two forgings and mags. Lesson learned.

You only got out so easy because you (correctly) bought and used the colt before buying all the parts you thought you wanted.

Good job on the resulting gun, and learning from your mistakes.

[evotistic]

I've recently made this discovery with the VLTOR CASV. Its a great rail, but after just under 1000 rounds, I doesn't fit my shooting style and now Im going a different route. Of course, it is another experiment!

[themighty9mm]

Yea, I know. It really isnt all that much of a loss. But last night doing the quick math in my head. I relized that would have been just under 1K of ammunition. I have plenty, but cant really have enough. I have done similar with handguns aswell. Change out, springs, grips, sights only to go back to bare bones stock and sit of the part untill I find some sort of use for em. It was just that in the AR's case money lost on individual parts is considerably more, it seems.

[MistWolf]

Please edit your original post and break it up into pargraphs. Not as bad as some "Walls of Text" but it made my old eyes swim :)

You learned a very important lesson- Ya won't know how something works until you use it shooting. My rule of thumb is, if it feels awkward in my hands, it will probably be feel awkward while shooting. Before buying a geegaw or doodad for any of my firearms, I weigh the cost of it proving to be useless and how much I'll lose on resale. Learning what works and what does not, can be as important as what you'll learn shooting an additional 1K of ammo.

My experience has been, the simpler and more streamlined the rifle, handgun or shotgun it is, the better it works and the more enjoyable to shoot

[themighty9mm]

Please edit your original post and break it up into pargraphs. Not as bad as some "Walls of Text" but it made my old eyes swim :)

You learned a very important lesson- Ya won't know how something works until you use it shooting. My rule of thumb is, if it feels awkward in my hands, it will probably be feel awkward while shooting. Before buying a geegaw or doodad for any of my firearms, I weigh the cost of it proving to be useless and how much I'll lose on resale. Learning what works and what does not, can be as important as what you'll learn shooting an additional 1K of ammo.

My experience has been, the simpler and more streamlined the rifle, handgun or shotgun it is, the better it works and the more enjoyable to shoot

Sorry about that, hope its a bit better now.

[Split66]

I think what you've gone through is very common. I went through an experimentation phase with an S&W gun, railed up, eothang etc etc.( what did Grant say about a lipstick pig?) and then kicked the whole thing to the curb landed with a basic Colt. And I'm happier than ever with my setup. It just makes sense to me, its light and effective and most importantly has killed my want to "upgrade" or "experiment".

Truth be told the crooked path cost us a few $100 but the knowledge you and I can pass on is priceless. My buddy is buying his 1st AR ( a DDM4V7) and I flat out told him, dont **** around and buy one of the best. I learned the hard way so you dont have to.

[evotistic]

Truth be told the crooked path cost us a few $100 but the knowledge you and I can pass on is priceless. My buddy is buying his 1st AR ( a DDM4V7) and I flat out told him, dont **** around and buy one of the best. I learned the hard way so you dont have to.

I am going through the same thing. I am trying to convince my friend to go with a DD over a cheaper RRA with the "tactical" package. Some people just have their minds made up, and although we can try to pass on some knowledge, they may have to make their own mistakes and spend their own money.

[one]

I'm right there with you guy.

Things I thought would be great that just didn't work out for me.

Magpul AFG
Magpul BAD levers

Various rail panels...This has really been more of an evolution for me, KAC to XTM's, to whatever was next. Now I'm down to basic ladder covers and they are what provides the best physical feedback for me based on how I grip my forend.

Foregrips. Started with the KAC, went to Tango down full size, Then TD shorty grip, then Larue FUG (short config.). The shorty's will still work for me but the KAC handstop has come up in my progression now. I've had it for a while, went back and forth on it and finally found the learning curve I needed with it.

Optics have been a progression. Eotechs and Aimpoints both full size have had their place on my guns. Now my #1 use optic is the T1 micro.

Lights...It's always been Surefire. Started out very first light on a KAC RIS was a 6P with shock isolated bezel. After that I kicked up to the Millenium series lights, including a 900 verticle grip. Left all that behind in the dust and am now running their compact scout, mini scout, and X300 as examples on guns.

Seeing the pattern here with all this? In the end as time, knowledge, experience, and technology advanced I did my best to do so too. Compact and light will go a long way for most people. And without sacrificing performance. In fact enhancing it.

You didn't do anything "wrong". In fact you're learning from it and working towards the best decisions. And that's exactly what M4carbine is all about.

Those guys that run out and buy plastic rails, cheap guns, crap optics and bitch in the same breath as it fails them while criticizing you or me for buying quality and "paying those prices" ---Those are the guys doing it wrong.

[KrampusArms]

After a year of owning my rifle, I wanted to upgrade to a rail. I researched a good amount, looking at price, weight, etc. I settled on a decent drop in by MI. It was totally righteous the first few days, handling it here & there. I could place my light, and vert grip anywhere I wanted. It had built in QD sling mounts. It was the cats meow.

But after awhile, and shouldering the rifle for long durations, it started to bother me. It wasnt as comfortable. It was FAT & bulky. While only 7.5 ounces if I remember correctly, it made the rifle feel unwieldy. Another thing that dawned on me was that I did not have much realestate to hold on to the thing, no matter where I placed my accessories. Slowly my distaste started to evolve, and I ended up hating it. I removed it, & slapped my old plastic guards on and......... Ahhhhhhhh. It was like slipping into a warm bath.

So that was $150.00 down the hole. I ended up selling it on the EE for a drastically cheaper price.

Don't feel too bad OP.