Geissele Automatic's new SMR MK1 m4 rail....13" & 15"

[ALCOAR]

Hi gents,

I wanted to go ahead and start this thread due to the fact that these rails are expected to be going hot any day now, and while the buzz surrounding them is certainly palpable....actual info, specs, availability, etc. on them is almost non exisitant thus far. Another thing to note is this first rail I got today I'm sure is now in the category of prototype as it doesn't have the product name on it, nor does it have the built in QD cups. So at any rate, over the next few weeks, you can expect a three part review of these rails from my end, but I wanted to let some of you whom I knew were chomping at the bit for info to get a little more understanding.

Part 1: First look....Geissele's new SMR MK1 m4 rail

This will be the portion I'm posting tonight, and while I hate to direct you guys to a youtube video which I only like to use in my threads as supplemental resources, this almost 10min. long video in full 1080p true HD I believe really depicts the impeccable machine work and top coat finishing on these rails, and more importantly it will serve as a visual guide as to some of the unique things about this rail rather than just trying to verbally type it out.

Part 2: Complete install tutorial via both pictorial instructions in this thread, as well as an install video on youtube. I will be including lots of advice directly from Bill G in this part as well. Lastly I will give overviews of the rifle or rifles I will be building directly around at least one of these rails if not two.

Part 3: Final field and range evaluations and tests....I will be using these rails for light precision builds, and one of these rifles might just have three GA in house core components in it, and the third potential GA component is a pretty darn big deal in my book when it comes to launching MK262 at distances beyond 600-700yds. If this component comes in, there will be copious amounts of factory ammo evals, associated velocity data with them, and LR shooting results.


PART 1: First look

Youtube video....

First look....Geissele's new SMR MK1 m4 rail (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=s9dPISUjTjw#!)

ETA...see better thread for info on these rails:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1521091#post1521091

[ALCOAR]

Part 2: Install tutorial/build overviews

Before getting started....tips on installation from the man himself, Mr. Geissele:

"Here are quickie installation instructions:



*Remove existing hand guard, flash hider, gas block and stock barrel nut.

*Grease receiver threads with good quality grease or anti seize. Make sure the FACE of the barrel extension is greased where the Geissele bbl nut will tighten down onto

*Install Geissele bbl nut. Use supplied combo pin wrench and torque to 50 ft-lb

*Install low profile gas block and proper gas tube. (no indexing of the barrel nut is needed)

*Slide SMR onto barrel nut. Be careful. There is only .001” of clearance and the rail must be aligned to have the center of the barrel in the center of the rail before slipping it on the bbl nut. I put my fingers at the top of the rail near the muzzle and eyeball alignment to the barrel, then wiggle the rail back and forth until it starts. NO FORCING.

*Once the rail is on the two clamp bolts are installed. Note they only tighten halfway into the threads before getting stiff. There are screw locking inserts that the threads go into and the bolts must be cranked down the rest of the way. Do not tighten fully.

*Now the rail must be indexed to the receiver rail. Take a scope mount and bridge the receiver and rail. Semi tighten the scope mount to bring the SMR into rotational alignment with the receiver rail. (I don’t recommend using a level to align the two components)

*Tighten the two clamp bolts to 10 ft lbs with a 3/8” 12 point socket. Note the cross in the center of the bolt head is designed to use the lug of the weapon bolt to loosen or tighten the clamp bolt in the field.

*Screw the two small nylon tipped setscrews against the receiver. This makes the whole set up bombproof for anti rotation.

*Installation is complete



It is not recommended to loctite the screws that hold the accessory rails on, however if this is a semi-permanent install of the accessory rail, purple #222 loctite can be used (no blue or red) "

Bill also pointed out.....

" One thing. Those torque values are for guidance. People have been tightening bbl nuts without a torque wrench since 1960. Same with the clamp bolts. Torque values are for those who are not used to tightening bolts. "

[ALCOAR]

Part 3: The final report....evaluations from the field and range

[jonconsiglio]

I like the attention to detail like the contours on the accessory rails and at the front of the top rail. Looks very nice so far.

I'd like to see/hear more about the mount and how robust it is compared to some others like the DD bolt-up, for example.

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

looking forward to pics of assembled weapon. There are no pics on his site, or info on pricing no length details either.

[Littlelebowski]

I have no idea if this is a paid advertisement or what.

[vicious_cb]

Nice review and video. Do you work as a mime by any chance? :D

Do you have the weight of handguard + barrel nut?

Also where do the anti-rotational screws go in?

[Fire]

Great pics.

Could we get some specs like diameters and weight?

[forFREEDOM]

Beautiful, Trident! Excellent review.

[Vgex2]

Suweeet.

[ALCOAR]

Thanks guys, but as lebowski so eloquently eluded to, at this point this thread doesn't serve much more than to simply inform the M4C community that the new GA rails are finally ready.

I will answer all the questions above very soon, and will try my best to get any future ones answered as quickly as possible. Ultimately receiving this rail was a total surprise, and I'm not going to build with used parts around these brand new rails so I had to order MURs, another barrel, and a few other things in order to get these built up.

[Stickman]

Ultimately receiving this rail was a total surprise


How did the rail fairy know where you live? :D

[Beat Trash]

How did the rail fairy know where you live? :D

And just when I stopped believing in fairies....

[Cameron]

I have no idea if this is a paid advertisement or what.

I'm pretty sure that m4carbine.net is actually a great big paid advertisement, and that's OK, that's how we get most of our info.

Cameron

[krisjon]

When it's quality information and quality products, I have no issue with someone putting it out there.

There's a big difference between shilling crap and letting people know what's new and exciting from a very respected, supportive industry vet and member of our community. Bill Geissele more than fits that bill.

[forFREEDOM]

Bill builds great stuff hands down. Most of it stemmed from doing things for the Dept of Defense. This rail is a product of their HK416 rail request for Special Forces. I believe that's free marketing right there. Proven pays for itself.

[EzGoingKev]

I like the rail design and as it is made by Geissele I am sure it is top quality but do not care for the little set screws used for anti-rotation.

[Littlelebowski]

I'm pretty sure that m4carbine.net is actually a great big paid advertisement, and that's OK, that's how we get most of our info.

Cameron

Yup, I just like disclosure. I have no doubt that this is quality kit.

[Freedoooom]

For review pictures, I suggest you not blow out the highlights and make a matte rail look glossy.

[SW-Shooter]

Nice review and video. Do you work as a mime by any chance? :D

Do you have the weight of handguard + barrel nut?

Also where do the anti-rotational screws go in?

I didn't get that at first because I hadn't seen the video. Once I watched the vid it made sense and I got a laugh out of it. I pictured him with face paint and all.:ph34r:

[Nightvisionary]

For review pictures, I suggest you not blow out the highlights and make a matte rail look glossy.

I agree. I have noticed all of Tridents gun pics have a glossy look. At first I thought it was just the finish on a couple of his rifles but MOE grips aren't glossy.;)

[Littlelebowski]

I thought it was armor all or something like that and I think it looks good but probably not good for a detailed review.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[justin_247]

I don't mean to be a troll, but...

I can understand why a rail like this is much needed on the HK416, but what does system bring to ARs that others do not? The Troy/VTAC Alpha, KAC URX III, DD MFR, and Noveske NSR do everything this will do, and then some.

[Freedoooom]

I don't mean to be a troll, but...

I can understand why a rail like this is much needed on the HK416, but what does system bring to ARs that others do not? The Troy/VTAC Alpha, KAC URX III, DD MFR, and Noveske NSR do everything this will do, and then some.

Its a natural evolution for Geissele to build an AR rail. They really have no more room for improvement in triggers.

Mostly though its probably the HK416 version was well received and probably got pestered if a AR version would come out.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

I don't mean to be a troll, but...

I can understand why a rail like this is much needed on the HK416, but what does system bring to ARs that others do not? The Troy/VTAC Alpha, KAC URX III, DD MFR, and Noveske NSR do everything this will do, and then some.

Trident, good job on the review. Im with Justin here though. With so many foreends just like this one on the market, Id like to know *why* I should buy, what it will do for me, and in what ways does it blow away the already stiff competetion.

[a0cake]

I'm curious, what else do you guys want rails to do? I'm not being confrontational, I just don't get it. You grab onto it and mount shit on it. This rail is just another quality option that carries out the same mundane task. When you're comparing quality rails, it really just comes down to feel and other subjective features. What other major / new features do you really want?


What I'd really like to see (in an ideal world), is an industry wide, standardized upper receiver that allows direct attachment of rails. Kind of like the Larue receivers, but with a rock solid QD point of attachment. That's the next real step. Using the barrel nut point of attachment works, and is obviously the only solution with standard upper receivers, but a direct attachment to the upper allows the barrel to free-float in the truest sense of the word, further reducing the effects of harmonics. It also completely erases the worry of rotation.

Here's a picture of the Larue system, just as an example of what I'm talking about. I'd like to see it made QD, although that's not so important. If VLTOR, for example, came out with a receiver like this and companies started making rails to work with it, then I'd be pretty happy.

Until then, this new Geissele rail, and the many others like it, do all I could ask for with the current system.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/ss12/huge/P1090142.jpg

[sagmill]

Trident, good job on the review. Im with Justin here though. With so many foreends just like this one on the market, Id like to know *why* I should buy, what it will do for me, and in what ways does it blow away the already stiff competetion.

Ergonomics: it feels perfect in the hand.

Rock solid lock up: 2.25" length of bearing surface on the bbl nut that the rail centers on and grips. A stock barrel nut has a much shorter gripping surface to support the cantilever loads of a 15" rail

Ease of installation: no indexing of the barrel but needed, ability to get a true torque when tightening the barrel nut

Modularity: broad flexibility where accessory rails can be mounted

Ease of mounting accy rails: two screws and your done, no loose nuts to fool with to try and get lined up. Shear lugs on accy rails take any side loading, not bolts

Mission flexibility: switch rails with different set ups or lengths in just a minute or so.

Backed by the Geissele Above Ground Warranty: as long as I am above ground I will take care of you.

Thanks Trident for posting all this. Fellas, please understand Geissele has no customer service, marketing, IT or sales dept. Trident is helping me get the word out on this new endeavor for us.

[ALCOAR]

It's truly my pleasure brother, and we'd rather see you guys keep making great products instead of answering phones, or making pretty marketing brochures.

In regards to disclosure....

1. Geissele Automatics has never once hinted at the fact that I should post material in regards to their products on M4C...or any other forum for that matter.

Let me stress this....I received the rail from GA to test out, not market their product, so by extension the only reason this thread exists is because I thought some in the M4C community might want to learn about these new rails as information becomes available. This thread will at least help myself keep it organized and up to date.

2. I've never in the past, nor do I currently work for GA....or receive compensation for the opinion I hold and sometimes express in regards to GA and their products. Plain and simple...we're great friends and nothing more.

SPECS:

Naked rail measurements....

W: 1.7565"
H: 2.2640"

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06435.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06436-1-1.jpg

Non-naked (acc. railed) rail measurements....

W: 2.3005"
H: 2.5270"

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06441.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06442.jpg

ID: 1.3125"

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06452-1.jpg

OAL: 13"

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06445-1.jpg

Weight: (will be confirming these both on my own with different scales, as well as when GA sends me their weights.)

Weight naked (no acc. rail panels): 1.21lbs

Weight with three acc. rail panels: 1.34lbs

ETA:

Until GA gets all their distributors up and running....these rails will be sold initially only through Geissele Automatics.

[Freedoooom]

Geissele tell you if these will fit say the Adams Arms piston kit?

[dhena81]

Trident is the weight you listed without the barrel nut?

[ALCOAR]

I'm not sure in regards to the piston kits, but I'll see about finding out for you.

dhena81....apologies for not specifying that, both weights listed above include the weight of the barrel nut/cross bolts. So those are...once confirmed...the final weight totals as installed on a rifle.

[Sticks]

It's been a while, but I don't wonder if Geissele picked up the NGA rail since they went under?

Looks like what Mike Pannone was talking about when I was attending his course in March.

[ALCOAR]

This is the package that I really hoped for, but didn't know if/when it would be coming til I received it this morning.

Today I received the SMR Mk1 15" model, along with no doubts one of the nicest match AR barrels I've ever put eyes on....and I'm understating that last part.

Comparative look b/t the 13" and 15" SMR MK1 rails......

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06485-1.jpg

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06496-1.jpg

Then here is a mystery barrel....

** this barrel is just really something else....I tried to capture the enormous quality on this barrel, but I really don't even think my pics do it justice. Currently I don't have much more to add on this uber premium GA barrel, but count on me trying to get all the info I can on them asap.

The only specs I have at this time are as follows...

"18” SPR profile, cut for the OPS inc suppressor but with an intermediate length gas system. Its in-between rifle and mid length. 1-7 twist, SS, Wylde chamber."

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06502-1.jpg

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06548-1.jpg

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06536.jpg

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06526-1.jpg

Finally how about a straight money shot!!!

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06556-1.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06569-1.jpg

The 15" SMR is going with this new GA uber match 18" SPR barrel....end game here is a long range hitter with copious amounts of precision.

The 13" SMR is going with a Daniel Defense 14.5" CHF LW I ordered from RainerArms...end game here is patrol type ranges, with LW and speed being stressed. And yes for those who know me...your eyes don't fool you, I'm rolling with skinny jeans on this rifle:D

Hopefully one will be done before this time next week....leaning towards the one that will get me on torso sized steel @ 800yds the fastest.

[Warg]

Trident-

When possible, any additional information you can provide on the barrel would be helpful such as:

type of SS
type of rifling
source(s) for blank(s)
tolerance for bore concentricity/unformity (+/- x")
stress relief ?
lapping?
air gauging?
diameter of gas port

Thank you.

[buddyhoohaw]

FDE anodized Colt 6920 with Geissele MKII rail

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y198/buddyhoohaw/6920/FDE-6920-06.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y198/buddyhoohaw/6920/FDE-6920-05.jpg

Cheers