View Full Version : NEW to m4carbine.net and have ?'s
SHAWNthePATRIOT
06-17-12, 10:54
first off, thanks to any responses i get. Im new to the forums and am in the process of looking and eventually purchasing my first AR. Im on a serious tight budget and been looking into a few models. The one im really interested in is the Smith and Wesson M&P 15A. I've read 100's of reviews. Heard more good than bad. Really the only bad i've read about was 1. no dust cover and 2. no forward assist. I've read the rifle is very reliable besides the 2 facts. I am interested in fun range time and of course SHTF situations. Any comment or advice would be much appreciated. The gun is perfect also for my price range and situation. THANKS
SHAWNthePATRIOT
polymorpheous
06-17-12, 10:57
What is your price range?
Can you afford the rifle, mags, and ammo?
What is the rifle's intended purpose?
Plinking, home defense. Can you trust your life and those of your love ones with a bargain AR?
Any questions you have can be quickly and easily answered by using the orange search button at the top right hand corner of your screen.
OP, please take a serious look HERE (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/default.asp?m=0).
If I could only just barely afford an AR, I would prioritize purchasing a handgun, securing my concealed carry permit, and obtaining as much training as possible supplemented with shooting local IDPA and USPSA matches to stay sharp.
Only then would I even consider an AR. If I just wanted a fun gun to shoot I'd go get a 10/22 that I could shoot for pennies, or an M&P15-22 if I was set on the form-factor of the AR.
The S&W is a good weapon and a good value. As a range/beginning weapon, you would be hard pressed to do better. I'm a firm believer of buying what you can afford, train on it, and then later sell it and move up. This will be a good time to see what parts/accessories work best for you so you don't waste good money on bad parts in the future. Best of luck
SHAWNthePATRIOT
06-17-12, 11:12
I own a glock 17 gen 4. It conceals good and have plenty of experience with handguns. I have experience shooting AR's and wanted one for years. I finally have some money saved that I plan on using to get my own. I could easily afford a rock river arms or bushmaster or dpms etc. But for range time fun and defense also SHTF situations. I've looked into the Smith and Wesson M&P 15A model. The ammo wont be a problem and maintaining the rifle wont be a problem. Im looking for comments or advice on the model itself.
THANKS
Welcome Shawn.
The model 15a from what I'm seeing seems to be about the same price as a colt. I would go w/ colt, imo, you know you are getting mil-spec and retains it's value. just my .02c
polymorpheous
06-17-12, 11:35
You can sit a complete BCM M4 pattern upper on a blemed BCM lower for easily under $1000.
No brainer.
I don't know which model the "15A" is but if it's over $600 or so then I wouldn't touch it. If you're referring to the S&W Sport which retails for around $600 then it's worth the money but still obviously not as good as higher end AR's out there. Hell, even for $600 you could get a Spikes or PSA that is still mil-spec and will actually have the forward assist and dust cover. Dust cover is very important if it's a serious use rifle; don't let anyone tell you otherwise. No I'm not taking my AR to Afghanistan to kick in doors but a dust cover is still a must, IMO.
Personally, I'd just get a complete BCM for about $950. See gandrtactical.com
I own a glock 17 gen 4. It conceals good and have plenty of experience with handguns. I have experience shooting AR's and wanted one for years. I finally have some money saved that I plan on using to get my own. I could easily afford a rock river arms or bushmaster or dpms etc. But for range time fun and defense also SHTF situations. I've looked into the Smith and Wesson M&P 15A model. The ammo wont be a problem and maintaining the rifle wont be a problem. Im looking for comments or advice on the model itself.
THANKS
I'd spend a bit more time researching ARs before making a purchase decision. You mention that you could easily afford RRA, Bushmaster or DPMS - three brands that are held in poor regard on this website. You've focused on Smith & Wesson - which is held in somewhat higher regard - but seem to be confusing the 15A with the Sport. These are different models, built to different specifications.
Invariably, the membership here is going to recommend a 'BCD' carbine - BCM, Colt or Daniel Defense. Though I have few issues with the S&W lineup, these three brands have earned a reputation here for fair pricing and build quality - using components built to military specifications. If you can afford any of the brands you listed, you can afford one of these rifles. The current prices on Colt rifles in particular (such as the 6920 or 6720) are among the best ever.
Good luck.
John_Burns
06-17-12, 14:27
I own a glock 17 gen 4. It conceals good and have plenty of experience with handguns. I have experience shooting AR's and wanted one for years. I finally have some money saved that I plan on using to get my own. I could easily afford a rock river arms or bushmaster or dpms etc. But for range time fun and defense also SHTF situations. I've looked into the Smith and Wesson M&P 15A model. The ammo wont be a problem and maintaining the rifle wont be a problem. Im looking for comments or advice on the model itself.
THANKS
I have had some recent experience with the M&P Sport, which is the model that does not have a dust cover or the forward assist.
The first one a friend bought and we added a Troy VTAC float tube, a CMMG 2 stage trigger, Magpul CTR and MAID grip, and a Leupold scope.
The gas port was right on size at .063 and the bore scope showed a really nice barrel with the throat right on center. I really liked the lower as it had an oversize trigger guard forged with the lower so that saves replacing it with an aftermarket trigger guard.
It also had the bolt and bolt carrier Melonited and the action really slicked up fast. The gas key was nicely staked.
It shot 55 gr American Eagle right at 1 MOA and some Privi with the 55gr VMAX shot well under an inch. It ate up a few boxes of steel WPA without a hitch.
He does not care about the dust cover or forward assist so is not planning to swap out the upper.
Based on how nice that gun was I actually bought one yesterday just for the melonited barrel. I am waiting on a couple of barrels to get here and my last 16 incher was keyholing bullets so figured I would pull the barrel and shoot it for a while to see if his was just a fluke. I did bore scope it before buying and it looked good but maybe not quite as good as the first one.
Mine also had a .063 gas port and a nice chamber, well staked gas key, the Melonited bolt, ect.
I pulled the barrel off the upper and installed it on a Vltor MUR upper with a Troy VTAC tube and replaced the A-2 with a Troy Claymore. The front sight was installed with taper pins and because the barrel is Nitrided the gas seat has the corrosion resistant finish under the front sight.
I checked the headspace and it would close on a 1.4666 NOGO if you gave the bolt a run at it (tight) but would not close on the 1.4696 field gage.
The lower I put it on has an A-5 extension with the standard buffer.
I shot 100 rounds through it yesterday doing some break in and 150rnds today. The barrel is as accurate as I can shoot with 55gr Nosler Ballistic Tips and shoots right around 1 MOA with American Eagle. Hope to work with it some more running various 75gr bullets.
So short answer is I think the gun represents a great value and a lot of the value is in the great barrels Smith and Wesson is using on these guns plus the Melonited bolt and carrier and the lower with the integral forged trigger guard. If a guy feel like he needs a dust cover and FA then add the cost on a replacement upper.
I figure I will use the upper for a dedicated 22 LR in the future and when my other barrels get here I will reassemble most of this gun and beat the crap out of the barrel with steel ammo and save my stainless barrels some wear and tear.
Retiredbroke
06-17-12, 16:29
OP, please take a serious look HERE (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/default.asp?m=0).
I am new to this forum as well but not new to AR's...take this advise and don't look back!
I'm a little confused. If you are on a serious tight budget, then how is it possible that ammunition and magazines aren't a problem?
Aside from that the toipc you are asking has been asked several times a month at least.
Your truly best options are; Colt, BCM, DD, LMT or Noveske.
first off, thanks to any responses i get. Im new to the forums and am in the process of looking and eventually purchasing my first AR. Im on a serious tight budget and been looking into a few models. The one im really interested in is the Smith and Wesson M&P 15A. I've read 100's of reviews. Heard more good than bad. Really the only bad i've read about was 1. no dust cover and 2. no forward assist. I've read the rifle is very reliable besides the 2 facts. I am interested in fun range time and of course SHTF situations. Any comment or advice would be much appreciated. The gun is perfect also for my price range and situation. THANKS
SHAWNthePATRIOT
Guns-up.50
06-17-12, 17:10
buy once, cry once save and get a good rifle they have all been listed several times..
Look around you could very well find your answer with out asking the question..
Welcome bro.
SHAWNthePATRIOT
06-17-12, 17:53
the smith and wesson sport and A differences are that the "A" model HAS the dust cover and forward assist. The sport doesnt. The colt at equal value as the "A" model doesnt have the forward assist or the dust cover...because ive also been looking in to the Colt as well. Ill do more research. THANKS to all responses and suggestions. and also, on the budget. The budget it self itsnt as tight as the budget i have set aside for the rifle. I have a certain amount of money aside for the rifle and extra for ammunition and extras.
SHAWNthePATRIOT
So now that we have that established. If you are setting aside xxx amount for purchase of a rifle, then you are going about it the wrong way. Wait a little longer and purchase a good AR. That means if it costs more then wait until you have the money.
Do not skimp out and purchase the S&W. Get one of the brands that has been recommended already.
the smith and wesson sport and A differences are that the "A" model HAS the dust cover and forward assist. The sport doesnt. The colt at equal value as the "A" model doesnt have the forward assist or the dust cover...because ive also been looking in to the Colt as well. Ill do more research. THANKS to all responses and suggestions. and also, on the budget. The budget it self itsnt as tight as the budget i have set aside for the rifle. I have a certain amount of money aside for the rifle and extra for ammunition and extras.
SHAWNthePATRIOT
Lol as much as you tell yourself you are on a budget, that just goes flying out the window. You will find new ways to spend money on your rifle. ( ask me how I know)
Dont mess around, start with the best possible rifle and you wont feel the need to constantly upgrade stuff.
Grand58742
06-17-12, 18:41
The S&W is a good weapon and a good value. As a range/beginning weapon, you would be hard pressed to do better. I'm a firm believer of buying what you can afford, train on it, and then later sell it and move up. This will be a good time to see what parts/accessories work best for you so you don't waste good money on bad parts in the future. Best of luck
I'm a firm believer in the "buy once, cry once" like another poster said. I bought a (now known as) a second rate commercial spec rifle back in 2006 before I knew about all the technical specs that went into an AR. I wish I had the resources of this website back then in knowing what the "best" was to buy or even better features to look for.
At the OP, you seem fixated on the S&W...I'm sure it's perfectly fine for a range plinker, but you are looking at the rifle being multi-tasked as a SHTF, range, protect the ones I love carbine. Frankly, the resources of this board have suggested you look at Colt, BCM or Daniel Defense. I'm not fanboy of Colt, but the price is right on them right now as well as the blemished lowers from BCM. One could build a damn fine rifle from the BCM upper and lower right now.
If on a budget means you have to skimp a little on the ammo budget to get a better quality rifle, you should do so. If the choice comes down to adding in an extra $200-400 right now to get a better rifle or adding in an extra case of ammo or nicer optic, I would go with the former. Buy once, cry once and learn to shoot with irons and cheap steel cased ammo first before moving into the optic and higher end ammo.
I tend not to get involved in these "what should I buy" threads as typically the OP is stuck on a particular brand and no matter how much or many threads are posted, they end up looking more for justification on a rifle they already bought as opposed to taking the opinions of the masses to heart. Again, I wish I had the resources of this site some years ago as I just spent $500 upgrading one of the carbines I own and will probably spend more in the near future to complete the upgrade.
Again, I'm no Colt fan, but they do offer a great value for the features you get and at a good price. Same with BCM. I'd also suggest DD, but they are pretty pricey right now. Those "Big Three" are the most reputed right now and will do you just fine.
Your money, your choice.
the smith and wesson sport and A differences are that the "A" model HAS the dust cover and forward assist. The sport doesnt. The colt at equal value as the "A" model doesnt have the forward assist or the dust cover...because ive also been looking in to the Colt as well. Ill do more research. THANKS to all responses and suggestions. and also, on the budget. The budget it self itsnt as tight as the budget i have set aside for the rifle. I have a certain amount of money aside for the rifle and extra for ammunition and extras.
SHAWNthePATRIOT
There are Colt's without the dustcover and forward assist? Which model is this? I have not seen a Colt without those 2 things. Can you provide me a link?
Justin
I dont get this budget stuff, do people not have a continuous income? If you save x dollars per month, save for more months. Skip the steaks and movies. I ate eggs and frozen vegetables for 4 months or so to buy my handgun. How bad you do want it and how good do you want to get? You cant even budget that since people learn at different rates.
Save up till you have enough to buy a good gun. Then save up to buy ammo, mags, and soft-gear.
I'm also going to suggest a handgun first if you dont have one since chances are a pistol and ccw will save yourself more than a rifle. Also, handguns are harder to shoot well and take more time/money.
Welcome to the forum, man. Dont take it personal, but I see similar questions all the time and just do not understand it. You have x number of dollars per year, y goes towards bills. Food and entertainment can be skimmed down to <$100/month per person.
Beat Trash
06-18-12, 09:38
There are Colt's without the dustcover and forward assist? Which model is this? I have not seen a Colt without those 2 things. Can you provide me a link?
Justin
There is a reason Colt does not make bargain rifles without dust covers.
Colt guns are made to the same standards as the guns made for the DOD contract. This is easy for them as they actually possess the TDP explaining how this is to be done.
Just because a gun has the same silhouette as a properly built AR15, doesn't mean it's built to the same category.
The S&W Sport is a good rifle, for what it is. If I had to chose between a Century Arms WASAR AK and a M&P Sport, I'd go with the Sport. Both are about the same price in my market area.
The S&W M&P15A would be my first choice of guns if I were not choosing from the what some here would call tier 1 guns (Colt, BCM, DD). It's a great recreational gun that could be pressed into hard usage service.
But if choosing between the M&P Sport and the M&P15A, go with the 15A.
Do a search for pricing on a Colt 6920 or a 6720. The current real world pricing difference between the S&W and the Colt can be less than $100. For a gun that could be a lifetime investment, buy quality and buy once.
With the limited price difference, I just can't buy into the concept of buying a "starter gun" with the intent of upgrading down the road. Buy a gun with sufficient quality that you can grow into the gun, not out grow the gun.
So now that we have that established. If you are setting aside xxx amount for purchase of a rifle, then you are going about it the wrong way. Wait a little longer and purchase a good AR. That means if it costs more then wait until you have the money.
Do not skimp out and purchase the S&W. Get one of the brands that has been recommended already.
This is great advice ^^. With the M&P15A being around $900, it is DEFINITELY worth it to spend a tiny bit extra and get a Colt, BCM, or DD for around that price.
It will be well worth the extra $100, and you won't regret it in the long run.
Phillygunguy
06-18-12, 11:49
The only sw AR i would get is the m&p 15 vtac which i own but I have it as a back up to my back up a used Colt 6721which is my back up to my 6920 :p but in all seriousness for your first AR get a Colt or BCM LMT id go with Colt because
Im biased and its proven reliability, and its a better deal
If you are looking to be told "Go ahead and get the S&W" arfcom is always willing...
There is a reason Colt does not make bargain rifles without dust covers.
Colt guns are made to the same standards as the guns made for the DOD contract. This is easy for them as they actually possess the TDP explaining how this is to be done.
Just because a gun has the same silhouette as a properly built AR15, doesn't mean it's built to the same category.
The S&W Sport is a good rifle, for what it is. If I had to chose between a Century Arms WASAR AK and a M&P Sport, I'd go with the Sport. Both are about the same price in my market area.
The S&W M&P15A would be my first choice of guns if I were not choosing from the what some here would call tier 1 guns (Colt, BCM, DD). It's a great recreational gun that could be pressed into hard usage service.
But if choosing between the M&P Sport and the M&P15A, go with the 15A.
Do a search for pricing on a Colt 6920 or a 6720. The current real world pricing difference between the S&W and the Colt can be less than $100. For a gun that could be a lifetime investment, buy quality and buy once.
With the limited price difference, I just can't buy into the concept of buying a "starter gun" with the intent of upgrading down the road. Buy a gun with sufficient quality that you can grow into the gun, not out grow the gun.
I can't tell you how valuable this advice right here is. Drop a few bucks from the rest of the budget and add it to the AR budget. Dont worry about extras until you have a quality rifle. The next things on your list should be a few mags, some ammo and maybe some kind of light and a sling if you want one..... every thing else can wait.
I'm also going to suggest a handgun first if you dont have one since chances are a pistol and ccw will save yourself more than a rifle. Also, handguns are harder to shoot well and take more time/money.
What the hell kind of handgun are you shooting that is more expenisive than an AR, including ammo?
What the hell kind of handgun are you shooting that is more expenisive than an AR, including ammo?
a wilson 1911 could do it.
$2K gun
$50 mags
45acp ammo is almost double 223
Failure2Stop
06-18-12, 16:02
What the hell kind of handgun are you shooting that is more expenisive than an AR, including ammo?
I agree that getting the pistol to a high level of proficiency requires a greater investment than does the carbine.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
a wilson 1911 could do it.
$2K gun
$50 mags
45acp ammo is almost double 223
Since when did Wilsons cost $2K?? My last Wilson was $3,200! I think a bare bones CQB starts at $2,999 now.
Pistol Shooter
06-18-12, 16:12
This is great advice ^^. With the M&P15A being around $900, it is DEFINITELY worth it to spend a tiny bit extra and get a Colt, BCM, or DD for around that price.
It will be well worth the extra $100, and you won't regret it in the long run.
Great advice.
My local gunshop sells the Colt 6920 for $1072.00 FWIW. NIB, in stock and ready to ship. ;)
Since when did Wilsons cost $2K?? My last Wilson was $3,200! I think a bare bones CQB starts at $2,999 now.
used? :cool::p
As an S&W owner (2 M&P 15TS along with a Larue PredatAR in 5.56 and one in .308) they are nice rifles (not as nice as the Larues, but still nice), are they a Colt or D.D, NO. But a person could do much worse than an M&P 15 and waste a lot more money. Stick around and use the search to find out more about the S&W rifles along with other options.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.