View Full Version : Does SBR Negate 922r Compliance?
Wanted to make (SBR) a short plinker (SBR & thread the barrel for my suppressor) out of a Baretta CX4. I am very familiar with the NFA process as I have multiple SBR's, SBS's, Suppressors, and even one DD. What I don't know is if you register an imported weapon as an SBR, does that wipe out the need to be 922r compliant (not many US made parts for the CX4 that would qualify as 922r replacments)? I have a call in to Tony Rumor @ Tromix as he SBS's Saiga's on a regular basis and would probably know for sure but have not gotten a response back yet.
Don't say to call BATFE as I "do not" want to open a can of worms with them. Every time I have contacted their tech branch I have gotten conflicting answers.
Just wondered if anyone had the answer,
MadDog
ATF has released conflicting opinions on this. I believe their last opion was that 922r still needed to be followed even with SBRs. A cursory Google search should bring up the most recent opinion.
ATF has released conflicting opinions on this. I believe their last opion was that 922r still needed to be followed even with SBRs....
This is the last I heard as well. The thing with these conflicting opinions is those letters are specific and only technically binding to whom the letter is addressed. I don't know why they can't get their shit straight, but the fact is there isn't anything in the law that answers this question. Next week another letter could surface reversing the reversal...
Play it safe, CYA.
Looks like I will probably just move on to the next project.
MadDog :mad:
NFA weapons are not importable as sporting.
922
"(r) It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported
parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to
any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section
925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or
readily adaptable to sporting purposes..."
There are some 922r US made parts available for the CX4.
Nobody said anything about "importable NFA weapons". The question is if you register an "imported" rifle as an SBR (apply for SBR status on a form1, pay your tax, & after getting your stamped form1 back you cut the barrel down), does 922r still apply? Imported Saiga 12's are turned into NFA weapons (SBS) all the time by Tromix and others. Many of the parts they use for their conversions are made in the USA. Is that so they can comply with 922r or because they are building them up with superior parts?
MadDog
Nobody said anything about "importable NFA weapons". The question is if you register an "imported" rifle as an SBR (apply for SBR status on a form1, pay your tax, & after getting your stamped form1 back you cut the barrel down), does 922r still apply? Imported Saiga 12's are turned into NFA weapons (SBS) all the time by Tromix and others. Many of the parts they use for their conversions are made in the USA. Is that so they can comply with 922r or because they are building them up with superior parts?
MadDog
AK type conversions use US made parts for compliance of 922R. Short of a USPALM grip or perhaps a better muzzle device, I can't think of one of the listed parts that is made in the US that's "better" than it's original counterpart.
That being said, we're not talking AKs here. Honestly, I'm not familiar with the Beretta beyond the fact that it is a pistol caliber carbine. Does it have a threaded barrel now? If not, when you cut it will it be threaded or just recrowned? If you're not threading, and ALL you're doing is shortening the barrels length, I can't see how this would be a legal problem.
*I'm not a lawyer, no legal advice is being offered here.
Nobody said anything about "importable NFA weapons". The question is if you register an "imported" rifle as an SBR (apply for SBR status on a form1, pay your tax, & after getting your stamped form1 back you cut the barrel down), does 922r still apply? Imported Saiga 12's are turned into NFA weapons (SBS) all the time by Tromix and others. Many of the parts they use for their conversions are made in the USA. Is that so they can comply with 922r or because they are building them up with superior parts?
MadDog
What Todd K. is telling you is the SBR is manufactured in the United States by you. As the manufacturer you must put the city and state in which you manufactured the SBR on the gun. You cannot import an SBR because an SBR is not considered by ATF to be a sporting firearm and 922 only applies to firearms that can can imported (sporting).
I believe Todd fully understood and answered the original question.
... The thing with these conflicting opinions is those letters are specific and only technically binding to whom the letter is addressed. ...
And the decision only applies to the person the letter is addressed to until ATF sends another letter informing them it has changed its mind.
What Todd K. is telling you is the SBR is manufactured in the United States by you. As the manufacturer you must put the city and state in which you manufactured the SBR on the gun. You cannot import an SBR because an SBR is not considered by ATF to be a sporting firearm and 922 only applies to firearms that can can imported (sporting).
I believe Todd fully understood and answered the original question.
And the decision only applies to the person the letter is addressed to until ATF sends another letter informing them it has changed its mind.
AZ Doug:
Todd K. did not answer my question. I am fully aware of the NFA process as I mentioned in the OP that I already have numerous SBR's and SBS's (all USA made hosts) that I manufactured on Form1's. I am not interested in or asking about "importing an SBR".
My question is "If you take an imported gun like the CX4 (made outside the US but purchased right here in the US from US dealer) and SBR it on a Form1 (cut barrel down to < 16" and thread for suppressor), do you still need to be 922r compliant or does the new NFA status superceed 922r regulations"?
MadDog
do you still need to be 922r compliant or does the new NFA status superceed 922r regulations"?
MadDog
It still needs to be 922r compliant.
The SBR rule to get around 922r compliance was eliminated in 2009 by a decree from the ATF.
Scottryan:
Thanks, that was the info I was looking for. Since there are not a lot of US made parts to make the CX4 compliant.......it's on to the next project.
MadDog
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/922r_NFA_July_2009.jpg
It's all in my first post.
NFA weapons are not importable as sporting.
922
"(r) It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported
parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to
any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section
925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or
readily adaptable to sporting purposes..."
Anyone know how many 922(r) violation prosecutions have taken place in the US?
As far as the ATF letter posted above, there's a notable error in Mr. Spencer's decree. More than 10 (eg "11") is not the same as "less than 10" (eg "9"). The law states:
Sec. 178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.
(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.
(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:
(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the provisions of Sec. 178.151; or
(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.
(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:
(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates
Anyone know how many 922(r) violation prosecutions have taken place in the US?
The more important question is how many 922(r) violation prosecutions have taken place in the US where this was the ONLY charge. My understanding is the 922(r) violation is usually an additional charge. I'm not going to push my luck, but I would be interested to know this as well.
Eurodriver
06-21-12, 16:53
The more important question is how many 922(r) violation prosecutions have taken place in the US where this was the ONLY charge. My understanding is the 922(r) violation is usually an additional charge. I'm not going to push my luck, but I would be interested to know this as well.
How would anyone know? Talk about a useless law.
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