Need a little help narrowing down my options

[hmbleservant]

I've been reading a lot before I started to bug you guys on this forum. I am new to the AR-15 platform and I'm trying to put together or buy a good rifle on budget for well under $2,000 total, but I'm not willing to sacrifice functionality. Reliablility is a priortity, then accuracy. I'm trying to get a solid 1-1.5 moa rifle (I'm a hunter also), but the rifle will be built for home defense/ woods carry. From the reading I've done the following brands seem to be good bets: Spikes, BCM, Daniel Defense.

Can yall give me a breif description of pro's/con's of the above brands with respect to accuracy/reliability/cost please. Is it better to peice together or buy complete for my budget's sake. Will I be sacrificing reliablity by piecing together parts myself? I'm chasing my tail on this. Are there other brands that I should consider for the price range I'm in? Do I need a fixed front sight (I know I need a free float hand gaurd, preferably something that I can replace one day with a slick rail other than quad-rail)?

Other accessories that I'm settling on so far that budget should include:

Aimpoint T-1 2 moa
good light (surefire g2 or x300 or Streamlight TLR-1)
BUIS rear/front

I know, I know I need to keep reading and I plan to for sure, but I got to admit this is a little overwhelming- a lot to take in for sure. If there is anyone out there that knows there stuff well and is willing to give me a few minutes of the their time over the phone I would really appreciate it. I have so many questions and I don't even know enough to know how to ask them!

[Amur]

Most will respond get a basic colt, bcm, DD fro 1-1.5k shoot the shiz out of it and then decide what else you need.

If you are focused on accuracy and hunting i can also suggest a larue predatAR which has a lightweight stainless barrel and would come in around 1700 with iron sights.

Do some research on "Chrome lined vs stainless" and decide if that is what you want or not. Its a great value.

IMHO the two best values out there right now are:
1) Rainier arms RUC
2) Larue PredatAR

But at the end of the day they are not that much different than a basic Colt 6920 or standard DD/BCM.

[badness]

http://m4carbine.net/search.php

[BCmJUnKie]

I've been reading a lot before I started to bug you guys on this forum. I am new to the AR-15 platform and I'm trying to put together or buy a good rifle on budget for well under $2,000 total, but I'm not willing to sacrifice functionality. Reliablility is a priortity, then accuracy. I'm trying to get a solid 1-1.5 moa rifle (I'm a hunter also), but the rifle will be built for home defense/ woods carry. From the reading I've done the following brands seem to be good bets: Spikes, BCM, Daniel Defense.

Can yall give me a breif description of pro's/con's of the above brands with respect to accuracy/reliability/cost please. Is it better to peice together or buy complete for my budget's sake. Will I be sacrificing reliablity by piecing together parts myself? I'm chasing my tail on this. Are there other brands that I should consider for the price range I'm in? Do I need a fixed front sight (I know I need a free float hand gaurd, preferably something that I can replace one day with a slick rail other than quad-rail)?

Other accessories that I'm settling on so far that budget should include:

Aimpoint T-1 2 moagood light (surefire g2 or x300 or Streamlight TLR-1)
BUIS rear/front

I know, I know I need to keep reading and I plan to for sure, but I got to admit this is a little overwhelming- a lot to take in for sure. If there is anyone out there that knows there stuff well and is willing to give me a few minutes of the their time over the phone I would really appreciate it. I have so many questions and I don't even know enough to know how to ask them!


I dont understand this part. Have you thought of an actual optic?? You mention hunting thats why I ask.
The T-1 is a good optic, I run them, They can be accurate but you gotta slow down. Especially if its really bright out and the setting is high.

You cover what you want the rifle to look like but what is its PURPOSE?

That is gonna be somewhat of the deciding factor for what parts go into it. Perhaps a complete rifle would be better suited for what youre after. Not only that but there are rifles out there that pretty much cover what you need

[Pistol Shooter]

You might appreciate this link to a LAV video re: setting up a basic Ar 15:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mKD-CmX4zQ

[Guns-up.50]

I'm trying to put together or buy a good rifle on budget for well under $2,000 total

(I know I need a free float hand gaurd, preferably something that I can replace one day with a slick rail other than quad-rail)?

Other accessories that I'm settling on so far that budget should include:

Aimpoint T-1 2 moa
good light (surefire g2 or x300 or Streamlight TLR-1)
BUIS rear/front


I am not saying your wish is not possible but, your optic (T1) may cost you $500 used good sights $100+ and a sf(X300) may be more than you desired budget. I dont know what qualifies as well under. My advice is make your gun around its main purpose and fix your budget from there. (ie. if your purpose was a precision rifle your budget would only cover the optic, if its hunting you may adjust for that, or patrol hd same thing)
good luck to ya

[hmbleservant]

Thanks for the responses everyone. The primary purpose of this rifle will be fighting/defense. I want to have a rifle ready to fight with. I plan to train with it and become proficient with it as a weapon for potential use in protecting my family. It needs to be able to take the abuse of heavy use and possibly one day full auto fire. It needs to be utterly-reliable.

With that being said, like the most of you, I'm not made of money and I can only afford one rifle at a time. I would like this rifle to serve under a secondary philosephy-of-use also---hunting. Not a long range precision rifle, just deerstand hunting out to 150 yards or so. If the rifle is accurate enought for me to be able to take neck shots on 70 lb deer (i hunt in the hillcountry of TX) and headshots (brain) on feral hogs then that would open up a lot more shot opportunities for me and I would feel less hesitant to take it out and leave the big rifle at home. Also, I figured this platform will be good for bringing young ones into the world of hunting being that it shoots real soft and they won't have to struggle with locating game in the scope.

[Hmac]

Your T-1 with a magnifier ought to get you out to 150 yards without much trouble. I like Eotechs better for that use for the 1 MOA dot instead of the 2 MOA on the current T-1. I also prefer the Eotech magnifier and would go that route over the Aimpoint magnifier.

If you're new to the platform, I wouldn't try to build a rifle. Buy a Colt, DD, BCM, Noveske. Shoot it, take training courses (very important if it's a SD/HD rifle), find out what you like and don't like, then modify the rifle you have or build/buy a new one.

How are you going to convert it to full auto someday?

[hmbleservant]

I dont understand this part. Have you thought of an actual optic?? You mention hunting thats why I ask.
The T-1 is a good optic, I run them, They can be accurate but you gotta slow down. Especially if its really bright out and the setting is high.

You cover what you want the rifle to look like but what is its PURPOSE?

That is gonna be somewhat of the deciding factor for what parts go into it. Perhaps a complete rifle would be better suited for what youre after. Not only that but there are rifles out there that pretty much cover what you need

BCmJUnKie,

Thanks for you response. I'm not sure I understood exactly what you were saying in regards to my quote that you modified to bold some words, but I think you were pointing out that my optic (red dot) is a larger size (2moa) than my desired accuracy (1-1.5moa). If so, it's because I'm not willing to give up the advantage for my primary purpose of this rifle (fighting) in order to gain advantage for my secondary purpose (hunting). Also, even though the dot covering up your target can be hindering on small targets (smaller than 2moa) it doesn't neccessary hinder your accuracy potential on larger targets like deer where you can center the dot within a silhouette. Please forgive me if I misunderstood. I know you probably already now this.

[hmbleservant]

Your T-1 with a magnifier ought to get you out to 150 yards without much trouble. I like Eotechs better for that use for the 1 MOA dot instead of the 2 MOA on the current T-1. I also prefer the Eotech magnifier and would go that route over the Aimpoint magnifier.

If you're new to the platform, I wouldn't try to build a rifle. Buy a Colt, DD, BCM, Noveske. Shoot it, take training courses (very important if it's a SD/HD rifle), find out what you like and don't like, then modify the rifle you have or build/buy a new one.

How are you going to convert it to full auto someday?

Thanks for the response. At the risk of sounding really ignorant...I thought that being able to convert these upper-end rifles to full auto was one of the advantages of buying them....no?:confused:

[BCmJUnKie]

Sure thing buddy. Anytime.

And yes, thats what I was saying, wanting a 1moa rifle while using a 2moa dot....kinda defeats the purpose of wanting such small grouping.

I completely understand hunting and realize the shot plecement on a deer/elk is pretty big.

You first need to figure out this rifle and what you want it for, it comes down to specifics.

Have you thought at all about keeping it simple?

When I say that I mean the stock plastic handguards, carry handle, irons.....go out and shoot it for a month or two and find out what style you have, what you like to do with it and how well you shoot.

If your rate of fire is a few shots in a couple minutes, and youre really not after speed, go with a optic like a 1-4x.

If you want to run drills and engage multiple paper targets, get something faster like a T1 or Eotech.

Only YOU know what you want, none of us can tell you

[hmbleservant]

If I do decide to buy a complete rifle from DD, BCM, or Colt. Should I get a Fixed front sight or a RECCE style (with a flip-up front site). I think I would like the RECCE style better, but I don't know as much as y'all. Wouldn't I have more flexiblility with the RECCE (replacing barrels, etc.)

Which of the two is more accurate?

[BCmJUnKie]

Both are extremely accurate, not to mention YOU will never be as accurate as any one of those rifles. Unless you plan on shooting from bench.

I use flip ups but I really like the fixed sights.

There ARE more moving parts though, which = more potential for problems

[BCmJUnKie]

I think honestly you should go with something like this and SHOOT the hell out of it.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Mid-16-AR15-Bravo-Company-s/142.htm

Or this

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M4-Carbine-AR15-Bravo-Company-lightweight-s/150.htm

[hmbleservant]

Sure thing buddy. Anytime.

And yes, thats what I was saying, wanting a 1moa rifle while using a 2moa dot....kinda defeats the purpose of wanting such small grouping.

I completely understand hunting and realize the shot plecement on a deer/elk is pretty big.

You first need to figure out this rifle and what you want it for, it comes down to specifics.

Have you thought at all about keeping it simple?

When I say that I mean the stock plastic handguards, carry handle, irons.....go out and shoot it for a month or two and find out what style you have, what you like to do with it and how well you shoot.

If your rate of fire is a few shots in a couple minutes, and youre really not after speed, go with a optic like a 1-4x.

If you want to run drills and engage multiple paper targets, get something faster like a T1 or Eotech.

Only YOU know what you want, none of us can tell you

Thanks for the responses everyone. The primary purpose of this rifle will be fighting/defense. I want to have a rifle ready to fight with. I plan to train with it and become proficient with it as a weapon for potential use in protecting my family. It needs to be able to take the abuse of heavy use and possibly one day full auto fire. It needs to be utterly-reliable.

With that being said, like the most of you, I'm not made of money and I can only afford one rifle at a time. I would like this rifle to serve under a secondary philosephy-of-use also---hunting. Not a long range precision rifle, just deerstand hunting out to 150 yards or so. If the rifle is accurate enought for me to be able to take neck shots on 70 lb deer (i hunt in the hillcountry of TX) and headshots (brain) on feral hogs then that would open up a lot more shot opportunities for me and I would feel less hesitant to take it out and leave the big rifle at home. Also, I figured this platform will be good for bringing young ones into the world of hunting being that it shoots real soft and they won't have to struggle with locating game in the scope.

____________

I posted the above earlier, but I'm still learning how to use the forum tools (quote, etc.)

[Hmac]

Thanks for the response. At the risk of sounding really ignorant...I thought that being able to convert these upper-end rifles to full auto was one of the advantages of buying them....no?:confused:

No. No full auto.

[hmbleservant]

I think honestly you should go with something like this and SHOOT the hell out of it.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Mid-16-AR15-Bravo-Company-s/142.htm

Or this

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M4-Carbine-AR15-Bravo-Company-lightweight-s/150.htm

Those are definetly on the list of the ones I'm looking at at this point. Let me ask you something thoug. I am also looking at something like this

http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/specification/bcm_recce_16.php

Are there any advantages/disadvantages to this over the two you listed (accuracy, reliablility, etc)

[hmbleservant]

No. No full auto.

So in order to have a full auto rifle, you have to buy it that way to begin with? Can you please explain...sorry.

[Hmac]

So in order to have a full auto rifle, you have to buy it that way to begin with? Can you please explain...sorry.

Google the Firearms Owners Protection Act, specifically look at the Hughes amendment. Citizens can't own a fully automatic weapon unless it was registered prior to May 19, 1986. You can try to buy one -- they're around -- but they're typically running around $12,000 - $22,000.

[Leonidas24]

So in order to have a full auto rifle, you have to buy it that way to begin with? Can you please explain...sorry.

Be prepared to lay down some heavy duty coin to buy full auto. Right around the $10-15 thousand range. NFA law dictates that only machine guns manufactured prior to 1986 are available for legal purchase by us lowly civilians.

ETA: HMAC beat me to the punch.

[BCmJUnKie]

Those are definetly on the list of the ones I'm looking at at this point. Let me ask you something thoug. I am also looking at something like this

http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/specification/bcm_recce_16.php

Are there any advantages/disadvantages to this over the two you listed (accuracy, reliablility, etc)

Its the same thing, there is no difference except the rail and grip.

If you shoot it, you will figure out what you want LATER, other than getting something you dont need.

[hmbleservant]

Google the Firearms Owners Protection Act, specifically look at the Hughes amendment. Citizens can't own a fully automatic weapon unless it was registered prior to May 19, 1986. You can try to buy one -- they're around -- but they're typically running around $12,000 - $22,000.

Ok, but my understanding is that you can legally own a full auto. It would be considered a class 3 weapon and it would have to be properly registered and you would have to quallify (jump through the hoops) same as a suppressor or a short barrelled rifle.

My question is can you physically/mechanically convert these AR-15 platforms back into fully automatic if you ever wanted to get it registered as a fully auto? Is there a legal route to doing this.

I don't mean to sound like I know what I'm talking about because I can assure you I don't, but there is something missing from your explaination...or I'm just not understanding?:confused:

Thanks for tollerating my ignorance!

[polymorpheous]

Short answer is no.
You can not take a semi auto manufactured after 1986 and convert it to full auto.
You can, however, purchase a registered drop in auto sear ,(RDIAS), for the price of a Hyundai.

[Hmac]

Ok, but my understanding is that you can legally own a full auto. It would be considered a class 3 weapon and it would have to be properly registered and you would have to quallify (jump through the hoops) same as a suppressor or a short barrelled rifle.

My question is can you physically/mechanically convert these AR-15 platforms back into fully automatic if you ever wanted to get it registered as a fully auto? Is there a legal route to doing this.

I don't mean to sound like I know what I'm talking about because I can assure you I don't, but there is something missing from your explaination...or I'm just not understanding?:confused:

Thanks for tollerating my ignorance!

You CAN own a full auto, as long as it was made before May 19, 1986 and providing that they're not illegal in the state where you live. Then, it would indeed be considered a class 3 weapon and it would have to be properly registered and you would have to quallify (jump through the hoops) same as a suppressor or a short barrelled rifle. You cannot own a fully automatic firearms that was made/registered AFTER May 19, 1986.

It is mechanically possible to retrofit some AR-15's to be fully auto by buying a registered and transferable drop-in auto-sear (will also be pre-1986). They're currently running about $12,000 if you can find one.

Bottom line, it is simply illegal (against Federal law) for you to own a fully automatic firearm made after May 19, 1986. The exceptions would be if you had a Class III FFL with SOT (in which case you could acquire fully automatic firearms for "demonstration" purposes). The other would be for you to be a member of a state of federal law enforcement agency and have THEM buy you one. Of course, it would belong to the agency, not you.

Note that, additionally, civilian ownership of ANY fully automatic firearms is illegal in some states. So before you begin trying to acquire the antique parts necessary to convert your new rifle, better make sure that your state hasn't ruled machine guns illegal. They're illegal for individuals to own in DE, DC, HI, NY, WA, so if you live in one of those states, there is NO way for you to own a full-auto firearm. If you live in CA, IL, IO, KS, MI, NJ, RI, SC, you can own a full auto ONLY if you are a Class 3 (FFL/SOT) dealer.

I wouldn't buy an AR-15 with any thought whatsoever of ever making it full-auto....that will just never happen. I think you can take that criterion out of your decision matrix.



/

[Nightvisionary]

I think honestly you should go with something like this and SHOOT the hell out of it.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Mid-16-AR15-Bravo-Company-s/142.htm

Or this

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M4-Carbine-AR15-Bravo-Company-lightweight-s/150.htm

Apparently you haven't heard. Bravo Company isn't taking orders. Neither of those rifles you listed are available for the OP to purchase.

[polymorpheous]

Apparently you haven't heard. Bravo Company isn't taking orders. Neither of those rifles you listed are available for the OP to purchase.

You can order both a complete lower and complete upper from G&R and put the 2 halves together.
G&R does have these items in stock.

[rob_s]

Start here
http://clydearmory.com/colt-ar6720.html

add this
http://www.laruetactical.com/aimpoint-micro-h-1-2moam4-mount-combo

get one of these (the first one, for $40)
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=23992/Product/AR-15-M4-COMBAT-OPERATIONS-SLING

Get 11 of these
http://www.44mag.com/product/nhmtg_magazine_magpul_follower/nhmtg

and get 1k rounds of this
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/federal-xm193f-brown-box-5-56mm-55gr-fmj.html

get two of these
http://www.skdtac.com/Ready-Tactical-AR15-Mag-Pouch-p/rdt.110.htm

then find a way to sign up for this (second one down, Carbine 1)
http://www.guntactics.com/Rifle.htm


Stop obsessing over minutiae and get busy shooting. You are suffering from analysis paralysis, which is common for the first-time buyer that thinks he's going to get it right on his first try. You're not. Anyone that tells you they did is a liar or hasn't shot enough yet. Whatever loss you wind up taking on selling off parts from the above that you don't like will be money well spent for the lessons learned and knowledge gained.

[Hmac]

Rob has some good advice. It is highly unlikely that, being unfamiliar with the AR15, you will choose the perfect rifle first time, and frankly I think it's pointless to even try. You will be able to re-sell a Colt 6720 with a pretty minimal loss.

Bear in mind that in addition to the rifle, you'll be spending around $1000 in magazines, optics, sling, light, and other miscellaneous stuff like a case, cleaning equipment etc. And that doesn't take into account the $350 for your first 1000 rounds of ammo and the $300-$500 you'll pay for a comprehensive level 1 training course (plus the 300-500 rounds of ammo that most such courses require). You've specified that your rifle will be primarily for fighting, home defense, self defense. That pretty much moves such a training course way up on your priorities list.

I'm not sure that I agree with the T-1/H-1 recommendation - you might find a 30mm tube easier to manage and you will certainly find an Aimpoint PRO to be cheaper. Compared to the H-1 plus mount, about $200 cheaper.

Analysis/paralysis. I like that. An apt description of the AR15 buying process.

/

[Clem]

Start here
http://clydearmory.com/colt-ar6720.html

add this
http://www.laruetactical.com/aimpoint-micro-h-1-2moam4-mount-combo

get one of these (the first one, for $40)
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=23992/Product/AR-15-M4-COMBAT-OPERATIONS-SLING

Get 11 of these
http://www.44mag.com/product/nhmtg_magazine_magpul_follower/nhmtg

and get 1k rounds of this
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/federal-xm193f-brown-box-5-56mm-55gr-fmj.html

get two of these
http://www.skdtac.com/Ready-Tactical-AR15-Mag-Pouch-p/rdt.110.htm

then find a way to sign up for this (second one down, Carbine 1)
http://www.guntactics.com/Rifle.htm


Stop obsessing over minutiae and get busy shooting. You are suffering from analysis paralysis, which is common for the first-time buyer that thinks he's going to get it right on his first try. You're not. Anyone that tells you they did is a liar or hasn't shot enough yet. Whatever loss you wind up taking on selling off parts from the above that you don't like will be money well spent for the lessons learned and knowledge gained.

I agree with Rob on all his points, except where to get your Colt 6720
DSG has them cheaper.
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/COAR6720.aspx

And the H-1 is slightly cheaper if you order from Grant, unless you want all that swag that Larue gives you.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=APH1LTMICRO

[C4IGrant]

Apparently you haven't heard. Bravo Company isn't taking orders. Neither of those rifles you listed are available for the OP to purchase.

We have SOME BCM rifles in stock right now for those interested.





C4

[Amur]

Start here
http://clydearmory.com/colt-ar6720.html

add this
http://www.laruetactical.com/aimpoint-micro-h-1-2moam4-mount-combo

get one of these (the first one, for $40)
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=23992/Product/AR-15-M4-COMBAT-OPERATIONS-SLING

Get 11 of these
http://www.44mag.com/product/nhmtg_magazine_magpul_follower/nhmtg

and get 1k rounds of this
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/federal-xm193f-brown-box-5-56mm-55gr-fmj.html

get two of these
http://www.skdtac.com/Ready-Tactical-AR15-Mag-Pouch-p/rdt.110.htm

then find a way to sign up for this (second one down, Carbine 1)
http://www.guntactics.com/Rifle.htm


Stop obsessing over minutiae and get busy shooting. You are suffering from analysis paralysis, which is common for the first-time buyer that thinks he's going to get it right on his first try. You're not. Anyone that tells you they did is a liar or hasn't shot enough yet. Whatever loss you wind up taking on selling off parts from the above that you don't like will be money well spent for the lessons learned and knowledge gained.

WOW.....someone should just sticky this.(or some form of this list) It is the correct answer to this question which gets asks 3 times a week.

OP, do yourself a favor and do this and after you have taken the class post again.

[polymorpheous]

More often than not Rob's advice goes unheard.

[Tzook]

So in order to have a full auto rifle, you have to buy it that way to begin with? Can you please explain...sorry.

If you want full auto, think about stretching your 2k budget to 20k

[rob_s]

I agree with Rob on all his points, except where to get your Colt 6720
DSG has them cheaper.
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/COAR6720.aspx


That's a great price. Had I not just bought an iPad that cost me that much I might buy one just to have in the safe in a box.

[BCmJUnKie]

Stop obsessing over minutiae and get busy shooting. You are suffering from analysis paralysis, which is common for the first-time buyer that thinks he's going to get it right on his first try. You're not. Anyone that tells you they did is a liar or hasn't shot enough yet. .

I can vouch for this and I can pretty much guarantee it wont happen the first time.

I just wrote up a thread last week, its about the changes my rifle went through and how I wasnt sure what I was after.

Not to mention it took a year and LOTS of ammo.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1332298#post1332298

[Steel]

I would listen to Rob. I have a BCM RECCE 16 and it's not the lightest AR in the world. I am a big guy so it works for me. Still my arms fell like I have been in the gym after prolonged range time. I have decided to buy a carbine and set it up to be a light weight rifle and see how that works out.


This is my BCM RECCE 16.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/Steel85/IMAG0151.jpg

[hmbleservant]

Hey everyone, first of all, I want to thank all of you for your help, not just in this thread, but also for this forum and all you do for us newb's-this forum is a great resource.

I bought an AR-15 today and I wanted to share my experience. I made up my mind that I was going to go with a 16", mid-length gas system setup with a lightweight barrel. I narrowed it down to BCM and Daniel Defense. I searched for the BCM and couldn't find them anywhere. I emailed BCM and they responded promptly that they are behind and suggested that I try RSR group. I contacted RSR, but they didn't have any lightweight barreled rifles, so I began searching for the one a I really wanted all along, the DDM4V7LW.

https://danieldefense.com/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v7-lw.html

After hours of searching online. I couldn't find this anywhere either so I called up Daniel Defense direct to get some #'s for their dealers and one of the #'s they gave me was Texas Tactical. I gave them a call and spoke with Joe and Jenn (hope that's the right spelling). They were great to talk to and very helpful. They had 2 in stock (1 box, 1 display). They had a VERY good price on these compared to everywhere else (1,249.95!!!). Jenn said that this is a temporary price due to inventory issues. They were only about 40 minutes from me so I made the drive and bought the last boxed rifle they had in stock. I spoke with them for a while and I have to say that they were very helpful and likable. It was nice to deal with this small gun shop and I think I will be doing more business with them in the future.

By the way, I thought it was cool that half their wall was occupied by BCM and Daniel Defense along with a nice spread of Noveske among others. After walking around their store I noticed that they had most of the equipment that this forum advises as the best and little to no waste with unadvised offerings. I could tell by the experience that these two new their stuff. They are still a small shop and offering small prices, but with big personality and I felt that they really deserved to be praised a little, so thanks for bearing with me!

http://www.texastacticalgear.com/

[Caeser25]

The ammo will make more of a difference than barrel/optic for the effective range when used for hunting for the .223/5.56 variety.