To Rail Or Not To Rail?

[D.S. Brown]

I own a DD XV EZ. It came with a EZ CAR 7 rail. Presently all of the rails are covered with black Magpul XTM rail panels, except for the left side, which has only two. My Surefire X300 occupies the other two spaces.

I have a BCM Mod 0 on lay-a-way at the range I work at part time doing handgun instruction. Almost out of reflex I bought the same rail system, and covered it with the same panels. Eventually I would like a Surefire X300 ultra for it, but I'm in no hurry.

Yesterday it occurred to me that I am not likely to mount anything else on these rails. The only other accessories I see for these guns are likely some optics in the future. Presently I would prefer to use money to put rounds down range, learn to use my iron sights, and get some additional quality training.

When it occurred to me that I won't mount anything else on these rails, and other than feeling good when I grip it, and subjectively looking "cool", I asked why do I have them? Couldn't I save some weight and go with some Magpul carbine handguards? I could still mount the lights easy enough.

Guys, I'm a soon to be 45 year old school teacher, that has some prior, (20+ years prior) army infantry training, and some time as a correctional officer with a sheriffs department in Mass, with a strong self defense oriented interest in firearms. I'm not likely to be running patrols in the Kandahar Valley, or kicking in doors with Dallas SWAT anytime soon. I just like having a couple of decent rifles for self defense and training purposes.

With all of that lead up, I guess I'm soliciting opinions from those of you more current, and in the know if there are any pros and/or cons I'm missing by having or not having these rail systems.

Thanks.

Best,

Dave

[Failure2Stop]

When it comes to rails, there are a few questions you need to ask yourself:

1: Do I need to freefloat or not?
This is not just a matter of increased precision potentail, but of a few different applications. If you plan on doing sling-tension supported positions with optics or barrel mounted iron sights, barricade shooting, shooting from bipods, or externally supported positions, having a floating handguard system will permit you to hit what you are pointing your gun at without having to suffer barrel flex/disturbed harmonics issues.

If you are mounting an aiming device to your HG (usually seen with IR lasers), it can be a good thing to have a barrel joined handguard as the laser will stay in alignment with the bore across different lateral forces far better than a free-float will.

2: Do I need rails?
The obvious reason for rails is to mount stuff to your handguard, but most earth-people rarely need to mount anything more than a light and vert grip, and in some instances, front sights and in even fewer instances, IR lasers. There are simple, effective ways to mount lights to standard handguards and the MagPul MOE HGs that don't require rails, as well as simple solutions to mount a light to the FSB, which require absolutely 0 modification of anything.

One nice thing about rails is the ability to use heat-shielding covers, which keep the handguard grippable far beyond most other configurations. Vertical grips also tend to work best on rails (unless using an MVG on a MOE HG), and are not at all a good idea on standard handguards.

3: Is weight a factor?
Shedding weight can be a good thing, but some of the lightweight solutions actually add weight if you need to attach rails for other devices. The old adage of "ounces equal pounds" definately has it's place, but unless you are walking around with the carbine it is of much less importance than some seem to believe.

4: What is your budget?

5: What are you willing to sacrifice to meet budget?

6: What work are you willing to do yourself? Some are incredibly easy to install, some require a full barrel pull. What can you do? Do you have to tools necessary to do the work? Can you use a Dremel with a decent degree of precision? Can you follow directions well?

[devinsdad]

With the advent of modular rail systems from a variety of manufacturers, I question the need for a 4-sided (quad) rail system outside the military anymore. Unless you are mounting lights, lasers, NVG's, scopes etc. all at once, you are gonna end up with a lot of unused space, weight and a need to buy rail covers. In the end, it's all gonna revolve around what you want to do though. Looks can and are a powerful motivator.

[baffle Stack]

Don't over think it. You have no plans to mount anything. Skip the rail. :)

[VIP3R 237]

That was one of the better explanations of to rail or not to rail that I've ever read. I need to show that to some of the mall ninja associates I work with.


When it comes to rails, there are a few questions you need to ask yourself:

1: Do I need to freefloat or not?
This is not just a matter of increased precision potentail, but of a few different applications. If you plan on doing sling-tension supported positions with optics or barrel mounted iron sights, barricade shooting, shooting from bipods, or externally supported positions, having a floating handguard system will permit you to hit what you are pointing your gun at without having to suffer barrel flex/disturbed harmonics issues.

If you are mounting an aiming device to your HG (usually seen with IR lasers), it can be a good thing to have a barrel joined handguard as the laser will stay in alignment with the bore across different lateral forces far better than a free-float will.

2: Do I need rails?
The obvious reason for rails is to mount stuff to your handguard, but most earth-people rarely need to mount anything more than a light and vert grip, and in some instances, front sights and in even fewer instances, IR lasers. There are simple, effective ways to mount lights to standard handguards and the MagPul MOE HGs that don't require rails, as well as simple solutions to mount a light to the FSB, which require absolutely 0 modification of anything.

One nice thing about rails is the ability to use heat-shielding covers, which keep the handguard grippable far beyond most other configurations. Vertical grips also tend to work best on rails (unless using an MVG on a MOE HG), and are not at all a good idea on standard handguards.

3: Is weight a factor?
Shedding weight can be a good thing, but some of the lightweight solutions actually add weight if you need to attach rails for other devices. The old adage of "ounces equal pounds" definately has it's place, but unless you are walking around with the carbine it is of much less importance than some seem to believe.

4: What is your budget?

5: What are you willing to sacrifice to meet budget?

6: What work are you willing to do yourself? Some are incredibly easy to install, some require a full barrel pull. What can you do? Do you have to tools necessary to do the work? Can you use a Dremel with a decent degree of precision? Can you follow directions well?

[Jaysop]

I think the only downsides to the modular rails are how slick some are. Rainy or sweaty I like having a solid grip on rail or stippled rail covers. Also some heat protection as well.

Also depends on what kin of grips you use. I prefer longer rails for my monkey arms.

[polymorpheous]

F2S nails it.

If you don't need a free float, the Magpul MOE is a great cost effective hand guard.
You can mount lights in various positions using various hardware.

If free floating is desired, the Troy TRX is pretty inexpensive.
Again you can mount your light in different positions with various hardware.

[D.S. Brown]

To all, thanks for the fast replies so far, especially F2S for that detailed explanation.

Just to be clear, because I didn't mention it earlier, the DD EZ CAR 7 isn't a free float.

O.k. one more question then in relation to the heat. Which will likely insulate/dissipate some of the heat more affectively, the DD EZ Car 7 with the Magpul XTM covers, or the Magpul handguard?

Anyway I think what I'll do is pick up a Magpul handguard, and mount it to one of the rifles, to include the light. See how it fits my hand, if it reduces weight, what the heat transfer from a hot barrel will be, and just compare it to the other rifle with the rail, based on the latter criteria. In the end I'm not married to "coolness" factor. That really is waaay down on my list vs. practicality which I think is much higher on that list.

Again thanks for taking the time to provide informed and professional answers/insights/opinions. Very much appreciated.

Best,

Dave

[3 AE]

If you've determined that you don't need to have a free float system, then there really isn't a need to go with anything else. You already have quality drop in rails on both of your quality carbines.

[Buck]

I am a real fan of the factory Colt M4 double heat shield hand guards. They are a great hand guard and handle the heat really well. If you are looking for function, they really are to beat.

They can often be had for $20 or so in the EE from someone who took them off their new 6920.

Just my .02

B

[Buckshot Barry]

D.S. Brown,

I agree with you completely on our needs for a good house rifle. I didn't want to trick out my LE6920 with un-necessary accessories. What I did want was a reliable light. Here is my setup, but 6 o'clock mounted lights don't get much respect on this forum.

http://www.mindspring.com/~buckshotbarry/cdp2.jpg

[KrampusArms]

F2S sir,
I agree with everything you stated except one thing. I think adding a VFG to a standard handguard is ok. With the add on rail sections I have a very solid mount with my grip.

Perhaps I'm missing something. Please school me on why a VFG on a standard handguard is not a good idea. With all respect to your professional advice.

[rob_s]

I'm not F2S but even I have seen people pull their plastic hand guards off putting too much pressure on a VFG mounted to it.

To the OP, if you're not free-floating and only going with a 7.0, stick with the plastic. Buck makes a good point about the stock Colt double-shield hand guards, but I still prefer the MOE for the built-in hand stop I can hook my weak hand booger-picker around to pull the gun in and index my grip the same way each time.

[rackham1]

I still prefer the MOE for the built-in hand stop I can hook my weak hand booger-picker around to pull the gun in and index my grip the same way each time.

Hear, hear. Like this about the MOE for the same reason. It, plus IWC qd sling attach point, plus IWC side light mount, and I'm all set for (relatively) little money.

[HKBanger]

I moved away from the MOE hand guards mainly because they didn't stay in place that well on my BCM -- they would jerk up/down and that drives me crazy. Also, forget about using any vertical grip other than the Magpul VG specifically designed for the hand guards.

At the very least you could get the Troy Alpha rail which is way better at mounting things, lighter than the MOE, and is free floating.

[Failure2Stop]

F2S sir,
I agree with everything you stated except one thing. I think adding a VFG to a standard handguard is ok. With the add on rail sections I have a very solid mount with my grip.

Perhaps I'm missing something. Please school me on why a VFG on a standard handguard is not a good idea. With all respect to your professional advice.

The utility of a VFG as a hand stop/reference point is only about 25% of their overall application.

Shooting from support, single handed from support, break and rake, and muzzle thumps all benefit from use of a VFG, and all can exert a tremendous amount of force on the VFG mount, force that the plastic HG is not designed to handle.

Even in it's pure role as a place to put your hand, someone using a chicken-choker grip can apply enough force/leverage to tear the VFG off, especially if they are also putting lateral force on the VFG.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Todd00000]

When it comes to rails, there are a few questions you need to ask yourself:

1: Do I need to freefloat or not?
This is not just a matter of increased precision potentail, but of a few different applications. If you plan on doing sling-tension supported positions with optics or barrel mounted iron sights, barricade shooting, shooting from bipods, or externally supported positions, having a floating handguard system will permit you to hit what you are pointing your gun at without having to suffer barrel flex/disturbed harmonics issues.

If you are mounting an aiming device to your HG (usually seen with IR lasers), it can be a good thing to have a barrel joined handguard as the laser will stay in alignment with the bore across different lateral forces far better than a free-float will.

2: Do I need rails?
The obvious reason for rails is to mount stuff to your handguard, but most earth-people rarely need to mount anything more than a light and vert grip, and in some instances, front sights and in even fewer instances, IR lasers. There are simple, effective ways to mount lights to standard handguards and the MagPul MOE HGs that don't require rails, as well as simple solutions to mount a light to the FSB, which require absolutely 0 modification of anything.

One nice thing about rails is the ability to use heat-shielding covers, which keep the handguard grippable far beyond most other configurations. Vertical grips also tend to work best on rails (unless using an MVG on a MOE HG), and are not at all a good idea on standard handguards.

3: Is weight a factor?
Shedding weight can be a good thing, but some of the lightweight solutions actually add weight if you need to attach rails for other devices. The old adage of "ounces equal pounds" definately has it's place, but unless you are walking around with the carbine it is of much less importance than some seem to believe.

4: What is your budget?

5: What are you willing to sacrifice to meet budget?

6: What work are you willing to do yourself? Some are incredibly easy to install, some require a full barrel pull. What can you do? Do you have to tools necessary to do the work? Can you use a Dremel with a decent degree of precision? Can you follow directions well?

I'm just going to quote this from now on, just like Larry's post piston and DI.

[KrampusArms]

F2S & Rob S

Understood. I only use the VFG as a hand stop, but I never thought of this option as being so weak. I can imagine the handguard popping out from the delta ring now.

[Jellybean]

Well, for the OP's posts, here's the way I see it.

Like previously mentioned, if you don't feel you need a free-float system, what's wrong with the rails on there now?

I'm gathering that you're looking at this from a purely weight saving point of view?
The question is, are the Magpul handguards going to provide that for you, but only at the cost of decreased utility? Like some posters have also previously mentioned, the Magpul HGs are great for a super- KISS idea, but maybe not so great as far as heat or mounting a vert grip, or (imo) sling. And they may not save you as much weight as you think....
But you've already hit on the best idea, to try one of the Magpul HGs out first.

Imho, it all really depends on your vision for the rifle- which can pretty much be broken down to either single purpose/KISS, or general purpose. I wanted a general purpose rifle that could fit any role I could possibly ever dream up for it, so I got one with a FF rail.
Could I currently do without the rail? Yup. But I've got it if I want it.

As an aside, a personal opinion about the Magpul handguards- They are awesome. I helped a relative put together a rifle, and we used the midlength MOE guards on a BCM upper. Honestly, I didn't think much of the handguards, even handling them before. But once we got them actually on the rifle, I must say my opinion has completely changed- they feel great, they're a lot harder material than they appear, and they locked up super tight so they don't wiggle around like the regular factory handguards.

[DIRTMAN556]

You already have 'em just keep them.

I was also considering ditching the DD Omega X rails that I have on my rig. Just a one-way range-plinker here with a touch of HD/SHTF. Definitely looks better with the rails. Tried out the MOE handguards, which are great. But ended up keeping my rails.

[D.S. Brown]

Thanks for all of the input.

I went ahead and installed an MOE carbine handguard on my BCM. It felt okay, but the huge gap between the end of the handguard and the delta ring bothered me. Checked out a Colt 6920 we have in the shop with the same set up, same gap that I saw. Checked out a Sig M400 at another shop, as well as an LWRC mid length, both with MOE handguards, both with that gap at the end. I guess with my limited sampling of four rifles that I would see this on other rifles so equipped.

So a few things came up:

1.) I don't like how I perceive the delta ring not firmly seating all the way around the base of the handguard. I know the handguard is on there, but it seemed TO ME a little flimsy and wasn't inspiring solid confidence.

2.) I didn't like the slight bit of movement side to side with the MOE handguard.

3.) Though slightly heavier and wider I like the solid lock up of the rail on my Daniel Defense XV EZ. Ergo the additional EZ CAR rail I took off the BCM a few days ago is going back on today.

I don't intend for this to be a criticism of the MOE handguard. I know it is a top quality piece of equipment, used by serious professionals the world over. What I am saying is that FOR ME I'm willing to take the trade off in a little extra weight and width for what I perceive is a more solid lock up on my carbines with the EZ CAR rail.

Anyway I'm sure many of you were waiting breathlessly for this crucial update:p Seriously though thanks for your expertise and input. Always appreciated.

Best,

Dave

[Quentin]

Are you sure you got the MOE on properly? Mine fit very tight on a BCM and Daniel Defense, very little movement. The BCM has a triangular end cap and the DD circular, yet the MOEs are rock solid.

[polymorpheous]

Run the gun before making an assesment that it is too flimsy.
That is how they fit.
They are uglier as all get out, but they are very functional.

[DIRTMAN556]

That's the same conclusion I came to. Really like the MOE hand guards. But lacks the solidness of a rail. That alone is worth the extra cash in my eyes. Much like you I wanted to save some $$$ and like th MOE but kept the DD Omega Rail. Glad I'm not the only one.

[cashooter]

Bottom line, at the end of the day, its about what you like on your rifle. If you like the rail more, and are willing to accept the tradeoffs, more power to you. Enjoy!

[MOA]

Vote for troy alpha. Got one and love it. Light weight too.

[Nightvisionary]

D.S. Brown,

I agree with you completely on our needs for a good house rifle. I didn't want to trick out my LE6920 with un-necessary accessories. What I did want was a reliable light. Here is my setup, but 6 o'clock mounted lights don't get much respect on this forum.

http://www.mindspring.com/~buckshotbarry/cdp2.jpg

I have a similar light set up but I use the Midwest Industries front sight post mount with the light at 9'oclock.

I am going to get rid of it and go with a free float because it's affecting my barrel harmonics resulting in degraded accuracy.

From the bench my carbine gets around 2 MOA without the flashlight attached. Accuracy goes to 4 MOA as soon as I attach a light.

I will likely purchase another Samson/Rainier Arms Evolution FF rail. I was considering the newer MI Gen 2 SS series or the Daniel defense Modular Float but both use proprietary barrel nuts and tools. Daniel Defense is top notch but the detachable Picatinny rails stick out like donkey ears on the modular float.

The Evolution has held up very well on my 20 inch. One thing that sets it apart from most other rails is it does not attach directly to the barrel nut. Instead it has a stainless steel heat sink/ locking piece that helps absorb heat and slows down thermal conduction to the rail and your hand. It also includes the quick detach sling mount which Daniel Defense does not include with their higher priced rail.