IMR 8208 or CFE 223 powder?

[mickeyjr308]

Planning on reloading 223 matches loads for service rifle matches to 500 meters. The rifles I will be using are as follows:
Colt Hbar 1/7 20" rifle
14.5" WOA midlength 1/7 rifle
Have on hand Hornady 75 gr bthp and Sierra 69gr smk bullets,LC brass, CCI-400/450 primers. Whch powder would you recommend?

Thanks In Advance,
MickeyJr308.

[308sako]

I have shot many loads with this powder and both the Hornady 75 BTHP's and the Sierra MK's. It can be the best powder for the heavies in the 5.56. Do not use CCI 400 primers, Either Tula's or Fed 205's work awesome.

[Stangman]

I'm curious as to why no CCI 400's?

[308sako]

The 400's lack a sufficiently robust cup to prevent primer piercing. The Tula's Feds, Winchesters all work better in 5.56 loads.

[Stangman]

Thanks for the heads up.

Ignorance is bliss I suppose. I've used CCI 400's for a couple years & not had a problem with 55 & 62 grain loads mainly with an approx 25gr charge of Varget & imr 4064. But, I researched it a bit after you said that & I'll be switching over. I'd rather avoid any issues I can.

[Low Drag]

I just started building loads with CFE 223. I also have used CCI 400 primers for many thousands of rounds without issue. In fact with 55 gr Hornady FMJ bullets and (I think) 25.5 gr of CFE 223 I got a clover leaf pattern with the 5th in the middle, all touching at 100 yds from a Noveske 16" stainless barrel and a 24X scope. My best 5 shot group yet.

I used LC brass trimmed to 1.70, the Noveske seems to like the brass long, if I trim shorter I see the groups open up a bit.

The reason I'm giving this powder a try is it has the performance range to handle 55 gr to 75 gr loads and get he velocity I want. Currently I use Accurate Arms 2520 for heavy bullets and 2230 for light bullets. They both meter well and give good results. But if I can get good results (meaning the velocity and accuracy I want) with 1 kind of powder I'm in. I could use a bit of simplicity in my life.

If you want that exact powder charge I'll go get it from my records.

Have fun with it.

[Boxerglocker]

I just started building loads with CFE 223. I also have used CCI 400 primers for many thousands of rounds without issue. In fact with 55 gr Hornady FMJ bullets and (I think) 25.5 gr of CFE 223 I got a clover leaf pattern with the 5th in the middle, all touching at 100 yds from a Noveske 16" stainless barrel and a 24X scope. My best 5 shot group yet.

I used LC brass trimmed to 1.70, the Noveske seems to like the brass long, if I trim shorter I see the groups open up a bit.

The reason I'm giving this powder a try is it has the performance range to handle 55 gr to 75 gr loads and get he velocity I want. Currently I use Accurate Arms 2520 for heavy bullets and 2230 for light bullets. They both meter well and give good results. But if I can get good results (meaning the velocity and accuracy I want) with 1 kind of powder I'm in. I could use a bit of simplicity in my life.

If you want that exact powder charge I'll go get it from my records.

Have fun with it.

The Max case length for the 223 is 1.760 inches. The trim to length is 1.750 inches... but you say your trimming to 1.70, is that right?:confused:

I'd appreciate you posting you actual powder charge. I always work up loads but nice to know where others are hitting their sweet spot.

[rjacobs]

8208 for the heavier stuff. Best I found. I tried R15, Tac, and I think one or two others and the 8208 was by far the best. There is a reason it has been around and so well regarded for so long.

I have some of the CFE223, but I have only loaded up some 55g plinking rounds with it. Its an ok powder I guess although I probably wont buy more. Its a little harder to find(for me) than H335 and I dont notice to much of a difference. Plus I dont clean my guns that often so I guess you could say I am not that worried about copper fouling.

[308sako]

I do not mean to say that they are a bad primer, they are not. They are not optimal for an AR. There is a reason the CCi 41's are made.

I welcome the use of CCi BR primers in many of my bolt rife loads.

[Low Drag]

The Max case length for the 223 is 1.760 inches. The trim to length is 1.750 inches... but you say your trimming to 1.70, is that right?:confused:

I'd appreciate you posting you actual powder charge. I always work up loads but nice to know where others are hitting their sweet spot.

My bad, I trim to 1.760. I will have to dig out the actual charge but it's near the max. Let me know if you want it.

[Low Drag]

I got that data:

55 gr Hornady 27.5 gr CFE 223: 2981 avg

75 gr Hornady 24.5 gr CFE 223 is where I'm settling for accuracy but have not checked velocity yet.

Both are from a VTAC/Noveske 16" Stainless

[mickeyjr308]

Thank You All for the great information.
I have loaded up a bunch of rounds using CFE 223 & IMR 8208.
Will post a range report follow up, once tested.

Thanks,
MickeyJr308

[Pappabear]

The best primers we found were Wolf. Yes Wolf. We tested our loads with CCI and all the usual suspects, Wolf printed the best groups by a large margin.

[mickeyjr308]

Finally got a chance to take out the 2 ar15 rifles and had the following results with Imr 8208; Shot at 100 meters.

14.5 WOA Midlength barrel ar15
75gr Hornady Match Bullet
Imr 8208
cci-br4 primers
LC08 Case
Velocity 2500fps
1 Inch 5 shot group

20" Colt Delta Hbar rifle
75gr Hornady
Imr 8208
cci-br4
LC08 case
Velocity 2700fps SD 15.26
1 inch 5 shot group

I recommend you establish your own worked up reloading data as per published reloading manual recommendations and procedures.

[jstone]

Was this your first round of load development? If it is you should see even better results with some fine tuning. The 8208 was a good choice it has not been around for all that long, but in just a short couple years it has shown to be.clearly one of the best.

[jstone]

Less than 3 years is hardly a long time. Well regarded yes.


[QUOTE=rjacobs;1335445]8208 for the heavier stuff. Best I found. I tried R15, Tac, and I think one or two others and the 8208 was by far the best. There is a reason it has been around and so well regarded for so long.

[rjacobs]

Was this your first round of load development? If it is you should see even better results with some fine tuning. The 8208 was a good choice it has not been around for all that long, but in just a short couple years it has shown to be.clearly one of the best.


Less than 3 years is hardly a long time. Well regarded yes.


[QUOTE=rjacobs;1335445]8208 for the heavier stuff. Best I found. I tried R15, Tac, and I think one or two others and the 8208 was by far the best. There is a reason it has been around and so well regarded for so long.

8208 has been around for YEARS. The current 8208 XBR is supposed to be a remake of the old T32/8208 which has been around since I believe WWII.

[jstone]

According to imr the old mil spec 8208 is not the same as the xbr they are different powders and treated as such.

8208 has not been around since roughly the 70's.

The thread was about imr8208xbr which has not been around for ever it is different. They both may have overlapping uses but not the same and has not been around for ages.

[markm]

Thanks for the heads up.

Ignorance is bliss I suppose. I've used CCI 400's for a couple years & not had a problem with 55 & 62 grain loads mainly with an approx 25gr charge of Varget & imr 4064. But, I researched it a bit after you said that & I'll be switching over. I'd rather avoid any issues I can.

If your ammo isn't too hot, It's not an issue. We've run a bunch of the 400s too with no piercing.

Paying any extra to get so called "mis spec" primers is silly.

[mickeyjr308]

Hi Jstone,

Yes it was my first round of reloads for the 8208 powder, the results look very promising, I will do some more fine tuning and will post the results. Tried some WC845 surplus powder with the 69 gr smk and the top load produced 2600 fps & 1 inch 5 shot group.


Was this your first round of load development? If it is you should see even better results with some fine tuning. The 8208 was a good choice it has not been around for all that long, but in just a short couple years it has shown to be.clearly one of the best.

[jstone]

If your ammo isn't too hot, It's not an issue. We've run a bunch of the 400s too with no piercing.

Paying any extra to get so called "mis spec" primers is silly.

Like markm said 400's will work. They do flow around the firing pin at lighter loads than the 450's or 41's, but they should work fine if your loads are in the book range for 223. Some of the hotter 556 loads may pierce them. Most people say that they do not work in forums, but my experience has shown they have logged more hours on the keyboard than there press.