View Full Version : Traditional weights vs kettelbells.
I think kettlebells can have their place, and I wil use them in my own program(s) at times, but you have some pushing them has the holy grail of exercise equipment. If I could only have one, I'd still take the standard O bar and some weights over kettlebells any day.
J Strength Cond Res. 2012 May;26(5):1199-202.
Effects of weightlifting vs. kettlebell training on vertical jump, strength, and body composition.
Otto WH 3rd, Coburn JW, Brown LE, Spiering BA.
Source
Exercise Physiology Laboratory and Center for Sport Performance, Department of Kinesiology, California State University, Fullerton, Fullerton, California, USA.
Abstract
Effects of weightlifting vs. kettlebell training on vertical jump, strength, and body composition. J Strength Cond Res 26(5): 1199-1202, 2012-The present study compared the effects of 6 weeks of weightlifting plus traditional heavy resistance training exercises vs. kettlebell training on strength, power, and anthropometric measures.
Thirty healthy men were randomly assigned to 1 of 2 groups: (a) weightlifting (n = 13; mean ± SD: age, 22.92 ± 1.98 years; body mass, 80.57 ± 12.99 kg; height, 174.56 ± 5.80 cm) or (b) kettlebell (n = 17; mean ± SD: age, 22.76 ± 1.86 years; body mass, 78.99 ± 10.68 kg; height, 176.79 ± 5.08 cm) and trained 2 times a week for 6 weeks. A linear periodization model was used for training; at weeks 1-3 volume was 3 × 6 (kettlebell swings or high pull), 4 × 4 (accelerated swings or power clean), and 4 × 6 (goblet squats or back squats), respectively, and the volume increased during weeks 4-6 to 4 × 6, 6 × 4, and 4 × 6, respectively.
Participants were assessed for height (in centimeters), body mass (in kilograms), and body composition (skinfolds). Strength was assessed by the back squat 1 repetition maximum (1RM), whereas power was assessed by the vertical jump and power clean 1RM.
The results of this study indicated that short-term weightlifting and kettlebell training were effective in increasing strength and power. However, the gain in strength using weightlifting movements was greater than that during kettlebell training. Neither method of training led to significant changes in any of the anthropometric measures.
In conclusion, 6 weeks of weightlifting induced significantly greater improvements in strength compared with kettlebell training. No between-group differences existed for the vertical jump or body composition.
I'm waiting for the kettlebell fad to fade away....
They have their place...a niche i would call it. It really boils down to what you're looking to achieve. But they are not the end all be all, as much as some people dont want to hear that.
I'm waiting for the kettlebell fad to fade away....
They have their place...a niche i would call it. It really boils down to what you're looking to achieve. But they are not the end all be all, as much as some people dont want to hear that.
Agreed. :dance3:
They have their place...a niche i would call it. It really boils down to what you're looking to achieve.
What would you say that niche is?
Crossfit.....
I could go into detail, but i've gotta go do some swings and windmills......
yossarian42
06-26-12, 21:49
Crossfit.....
I could go into detail, but i've gotta go do some swings and windmills......
Not sure if sarcastic but I love ending a workout with swings.
I don't understand that whenever a discussion about kettlebells comes up, it's always a competition between which is better, kb or db? How about theyre just different?
Obviously they are marketed to look like the best thing ever, because there is money to be made. And if you wanted to you could use nothing but kettlebells and be strong and fit. It all depends on what you want to achieve really.
I use some kettle bell stuff in my routines. Sometimes I'll do shoulder press with them, which I prefer to dumbbells for that exercise. But mainly swings/snatches at the end of a workout. I do love windmills with two kettlebells and I've built up my obliques pretty good by doing them.
However my main lifts still are and always will be compounds with barbells.
So while some people preach that they're the best, and others can't wait for the "fad" to pass, I say they're both wrong.
One exercise that I absolutely love is the Turkish get up. I no longer use kettlebells for this exercise (i outgrew the ones at my gym) but I probably wouldn't be doing them at all if it weren't for the popularity of kettlebells. Its my favorite next to the squat. Requires Full body power and balance, and when you start using a heavy weight it's a total wtf moment for anyone who's never seen one done before.
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They have their place...a niche i would call it. It really boils down to what you're looking to achieve. But they are not the end all be all, as much as some people dont want to hear that.
Nope, just another tool in the shed. The Crossfit crowd seems to be most attracted to them.
brickboy240
07-02-12, 17:31
I admit it...I like kettlebells. I have a 30-45 minute routine I do every morning. Turkish get ups, Russian twists, swings...even curl the things. I have noticed that they have built me up somewhat and can work you pretty hard.
I don't have the room for tons of weights in my house or the money, so I appreciate what all you can get out of these things, along with basic exercises like push ups, burpees and sit-ups.
I also ride my mt bike quite often...in this heat and humidity...THAT is quite a workout! LOL
Hey..I admit I am no fitness guru...just a middle aged guy that does not want a beer gut and wants to remain fit and able to do whatever kind of work I want around the house and ranch. Not looking to run a marathon, body-build or do a triathlon - just keep somewhat fit.
The kettlebells are NOT some sort of miracle device but yes, another tool. Just happens to be a tool I use and like. I also like the fact that (to me) kettlebells are something new and different in the workout arena and the difference keeps me interested and working out and not bored as I got with traditional weights.
Hey....better than doing nothing at all...right?
- brickboy240
As far as tools, go, I think kettlebells are the most versatile. I put a 24kg one in my rucksack and deployed with it to Afghanistan. 80% of my workouts there were just with the KB...at one point I was in the middle of nowhere for 3 weeks...just a cot, sleeping bag, some MRE's and my KB.
For the fitness qualities I needed as a soldier wearing gear, operating dismounted in the mountains, it was ideal. I developed phenomenal anaerobic conditioning, great strength-endurance and good enough limit strength. I could hang with the lead Afghan soldiers dismounted (with more gear than them), in my mid-30s, I smoked the active duty 10th MTN soldiers also.
However, it is just a tool. A round ball of iron with a handle. It is knowledge and how you employ it (in accordance with your particular needs) that matters. You can do great things with a tool called a dumb bell also (2 round weights with a handle in between), or a barbell (iron plates with a long handle in between) or just bodyweight.
I focus on my goals and the fitness qualities I need to support them (types of strength and cardio, energy systems), then from what I have available to me, pick the best tools for a given workout.
If I'm working on upping my limit strength, no better tool than a heavy barbell and compound lifts. For anearobic conditioning, HIIT via whatever method floats your boat. Mass: dumbells, barbells, some KBs ok, but not primary.
My "home gym" is just a collection of KBs, a medicine ball, stability ball, a barbell, pull up bar and lots of plates. (and my bodyweight of course, I do lots of BW only work, great for travel)
VooDoo6Actual
07-14-12, 15:13
In conclusion, 6 weeks of weightlifting induced significantly greater improvements in strength compared with kettlebell training. No between-group differences existed for the vertical jump or body composition.
Gee ya think Will ?
Interestingly I trained recently with who I consider a skilled & fit Operator Sonny (Saulius) Puzikas. While he is not a heavily massed guy per se, he was surprisingly strong. NOT bone breaking raw strength like some are. Particularly notable was his tendon/joint/cartilage strength was impressive & well beyond par. He attributed that to Kettlebell training.
I easily had more power (from the free weights etc.) which he underestimated imo, which was fine by me.
Gee ya think Will ?
Interestingly I trained recently with who I consider a skilled & fit Operator Sonny (Saulius) Puzikas. While he is not a heavily massed guy per se, he was surprisingly strong. NOT bone breaking raw strength like some are. Particularly notable was his tendon/joint/cartilage strength was impressive & well beyond par. He attributed that to Kettlebell training.
I easily had more power (from the free weights etc.) which he underestimated imo, which was fine by me.
It's all good and about tools in the tool box and KBs a useful tool when matched to the goals. The only time advocates of KBs get my back up is when they claim, like others of the cult-like ilk, it's the one and only way to train and superior to (fill in blank) and thus everyone should use KBs and nothing else.
As far as tools, go, I think kettlebells are the most versatile. I put a 24kg one in my rucksack and deployed with it to Afghanistan. 80% of my workouts there were just with the KB...at one point I was in the middle of nowhere for 3 weeks...just a cot, sleeping bag, some MRE's and my KB.
For the fitness qualities I needed as a soldier wearing gear, operating dismounted in the mountains, it was ideal. I developed phenomenal anaerobic conditioning, great strength-endurance and good enough limit strength. I could hang with the lead Afghan soldiers dismounted (with more gear than them), in my mid-30s, I smoked the active duty 10th MTN soldiers also.
However, it is just a tool. A round ball of iron with a handle. It is knowledge and how you employ it (in accordance with your particular needs) that matters. You can do great things with a tool called a dumb bell also (2 round weights with a handle in between), or a barbell (iron plates with a long handle in between) or just bodyweight.
I focus on my goals and the fitness qualities I need to support them (types of strength and cardio, energy systems), then from what I have available to me, pick the best tools for a given workout.
If I'm working on upping my limit strength, no better tool than a heavy barbell and compound lifts. For anearobic conditioning, HIIT via whatever method floats your boat. Mass: dumbells, barbells, some KBs ok, but not primary.
My "home gym" is just a collection of KBs, a medicine ball, stability ball, a barbell, pull up bar and lots of plates. (and my bodyweight of course, I do lots of BW only work, great for travel)
All good points, and I can't disagree with any of it. I will say personally, if I could only have one tool that I knew I had to carry with me, I'd take a TRX suspension trainer over lugging 24kg of KB around, but that's me. :cool:
Considering the room and especially weight, a TRX, a sandbag (empty 'till reaching location and filling of course) from Sandbag Fitness Systems, would make for a very well rounded workout if space/weight/mobility were a major factor.
Heh, I had a HMMWV :)...but yeah, a TRX (or a section of thick rope) and an empty sandbag which can be filled on site would be great as well.
It's amazing what can be done with just imagination and whatever happens to be lying around. It kills me how most people think they need a commercial gym with high-tech equipment to get "in shape".
HOPLOETHOS,
When I was a security contractor in Iraq, I was issued an AK-47. So I ordered a DVD all about the AK-47 by Sonny P. I was really impressed by him and used a lot of that material in training myself to use that ergonomic nightmare of a carbine in an efficient manner. I really respect it as a fighting firearm now and felt well-armed with it (after mounting a reflex sight).
Heh, I had a HMMWV :)...but yeah, a TRX (or a section of thick rope) and an empty sandbag which can be filled on site would be great as well.
Any old sand bag can make for a workout, but I highly recommend the purpose built sandbags which allow for many additional challenges, movement patterns, etc, and due to having inserts, you can quickly increase/decrease the weight. See:
Ultimate Sandbag (http://www.mcssl.com/app/?af=1422505)
A TRX, a sandbag or two, a KB or two, and you're GTG.
It's amazing what can be done with just imagination and whatever happens to be lying around. It kills me how most people think they need a commercial gym with high-tech equipment to get "in shape".
Agreed. 2008 I had to get a 12 man team ready for a competition, and we had zero budget, so everything used was made, borrowed, or double secret borrowed. Sandbags from Home Depot, tires, phone poles, chains, car pushing, sledge, etc = effective functional workouts that did the trick. 2009, had a small budget and got various companies to donate some stuff, and yes, even more effective with the dedicated purpose built stuff (eg, Prowler sled, purpose built and bags, etc) but "I can't get into shape without access to a gym full of high tech toys, wa wa wa" is total bullshit.
VooDoo6Actual
07-14-12, 18:36
HOPLOETHOS,
When I was a security contractor in Iraq, I was issued an AK-47. So I ordered a DVD all about the AK-47 by Sonny P. I was really impressed by him and used a lot of that material in training myself to use that ergonomic nightmare of a carbine in an efficient manner. I really respect it as a fighting firearm now and felt well-armed with it (after mounting a reflex sight).
Solid copy Strambo.
Did some contracting myself in Trashcanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, Uzbekistan, Ukraine, GOA, Africa & "other" garden spots. Used a few AK's / PKM's there myself.
I have have pretty thick skin & a good filter. I have heard many people say things about Russians, Spetz, Sonny etc. Some true some complete Bravo Sierra.
Bottom line he knows what he speaks. IMO, it's not always the right tool as he thinks & I don't always agree w/ his tactics but, he's coming from a different country, different ROI & mindset . Mostly because he has trained his way & conditioned that way for so long. I enjoyed his knowledge & just kept quiet & let him do his thing. He has some great transition drills & sling trade craft w/ an AK no doubt. Many people would benefit greatly from his knowledge and skillets/tradecraft of Soviet/Communist/AK's & weapon systems he has imo etc. He did remind me how out of condition I had become which was a good thing as it motivated me to get back into the groove.
Holding my position for three minutes on my knuckles and then doing those slow count pushups after holding position for 3 minutes jacked me up pretty good. The pebbles/rock ground into my metacarpals was not exactly what I call "comfy" either. Took 1.5 weeks for that to heal. I liked the improvised shooting positions and drills he teaches very much.
I'm just now jumping back into resistance training, running & interval training again after an 8 month layoff. I had a Olecranon Bursitus (Abscess, Swollen Elbow, ruptured bursa sack, no infection) that took 14 weeks to heal w/o corticosteroids etc. I was self-aspirating some weeks as much as 9-12 CC's of synovial fluid. Craziest shit I ever saw. Feels good to be back at the weights again.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e225/teehee321/534220_10150919894847819_848353559_n.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e225/teehee321/179587_10150919875137819_800266758_n.jpg
Glad you are on the mend brother, I'm on a getting back in shape cycle also...just due to busy-ness and laziness though! (Every day I spend in the civilian world...I get weaker. Every day the Taliban squats in the bush, he gets stronger) ;)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e225/teehee321/179587_10150919875137819_800266758_n.jpg
This either an improvised shooting position to create an unstable shooting platform, or Russian tradition that says "I have killed you both and will now take a dump on you" :eek:
brickboy240
07-17-12, 13:14
I am buying one of those TRX suspension trainers.
That and my kettlebells and mt bike ought to be plenty of exercise equipment to keep me busy.
Hell, many guys my age (mid 40s) do little or no exercise at all...I have got to be getting a leg up on most of them! LOL
This either an improvised shooting position to create an unstable shooting platform, or Russian tradition that says "I have killed you both and will now take a dump on you" :eek:
I thought it was to teach you to withstand cigarette ash.
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