View Full Version : Army camo--FAIL!
Doc Safari
06-26-12, 10:07
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2164686/How-U-S-Army-spent-5BILLION-failed-pixel-camouflage--wanted-look-cooler-Marines.html
Even as a civilian, I always had my doubts about that so-called "universal" green-grey digital camo.
Looks like I'm not the only one. ;)
RogerinTPA
06-26-12, 11:09
No major news really. It took them 9 years to figure that out?:rolleyes: It has been known by anyone with common sense, from day one of the camo trials back in the day, that it was a complete abortion. I've said for many years that those who implemented this BS should be thrown in jail. I bet this camo cost more lives and GSWs than anything else. It did absolutely nothing to protect our Soldiers, unless they were fighting in a gravel quarry or parking lot.
Mauser KAR98K
06-26-12, 12:25
No major news really. It took them 9 years to figure that out?:rolleyes: It has been known by anyone with common sense, from day one of the camo trials back in the day, that it was a complete abortion. I've said for many years that those who implemented this BS should be thrown in jail. I bet this camo cost more lives and GSWs than anything else. It did absolutely nothing to protect our Soldiers, unless they were fighting in a gravel quarry or parking lot.
Or in a grey furniture store.
I had a friend wear those while playing airsoft. Lite him up several times due to the fact it was easily seen. So much for camouflage. :secret::suicide:
VooDoo6Actual
06-26-12, 12:34
No major news really. It took them 9 years to figure that out?:rolleyes: It has been known by anyone with common sense, from day one of the camo trials back in the day, that it was a complete abortion. I've said for many years that those who implemented this BS should be thrown in jail. I bet this camo cost more lives and GSWs than anything else. It did absolutely nothing to protect our Soldiers, unless they were fighting in a gravel quarry or parking lot.
Not that I disagree,
Roger at this rate w/ everyone in jail who's going to run the planet ?
LMAO !
He is! :jester:
But seriously, I'm glad to hear they are finally admitting these don't work.
Ohh they have known but they'd rather not admit to a mistake than spend money on fixing it. Hopefully this time they don't do it again. They should pick atacs for region specific and multicam for everything inbetween..
The Army UCP does work. It was tested in an interior urban environment and came through with flying colors. It was the boots that jeopardized their lives! :sarcastic:
http://www.AllMilitary.com/board/postgallery.php?pid=48036&filename=camo.jpg
Another problem was uncovered by the GAO whose study determined that to supply each soldier with the matching UCP couch will cost at least $10 billion. Senior Army officials are seriously considering the purchase since their study suggests that it would be easier for the Army to change the environment to fit the uniform instead of the long standing practice of blending in with the environment.
Preliminary tests are scheduled to add the UCP to Army tanks, artillery, firearms, APCs, helicopters, Humvees, messhalls, latrines, and even toilet paper. No official word from the Secretary of the Army if UCP will be applied to feminine hygiene products. Female soldiers have expressed concern about not having equal application of UCP to both sexes. That is all, carry on.
ForTehNguyen
06-26-12, 18:40
I like my multicam. ATACS looks pretty good too
RogerinTPA
06-26-12, 19:24
You have a point HOP.
But just once I'd like to see someone publicly excoriated and shit canned for Effing things up...pipe dream I know. :shout:
Not that I disagree,
Roger at this rate w/ everyone in jail who's going to run the planet ?
LMAO !
Not that I disagree,
Roger at this rate w/ everyone in jail who's going to run the planet ?
LMAO !
Gee, that would be a shame.
GeorgiaBoy
06-26-12, 22:53
http://domhyde.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/army-mil-47631-2009-08-12-020812.jpg?w=281&h=300
"Yeah we spotted you about a half mile ago."
That picture always makes me roll... :lol:
crusader377
06-26-12, 23:43
The other sad thing is that the Army entered the war with good uniforms. I thought that the DCU that I had in Afghanistan in 2002 and Iraq in 2003 was a great uniform that blended well in both environments and it was comfortable to wear. Although not used in the Middle East, the standard summer weight BDU was a good uniform as well. I think it had a little too much black but it still worked well in most wooded environments.
They ought to stop dicking around with more trials and officially issue MC to everyone, not just OEF Troops.
Coyote Vests and Pads, MC clothing and pouches. Done deal.
FWIW, I do think ATACS FG is the shit-diggity
Moose-Knuckle
06-27-12, 03:17
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/acucouch.jpg
CarlosDJackal
06-27-12, 14:17
No major news really. It took them 9 years to figure that out?:rolleyes:
I first heard about this camo's shortcomings from Airsofters about 5-years ago. Evidently it stands out to someone who is wearing one of those yellow-tinted glasses in a woodland environment.
It's pretty sad that these wannabes know its issues long before our government. :eek:
I got my hands on some british desert bdus and I really like them...I also live in s. texas, from holding them and just looking at them i wasn't real impressed but after taking them outside I was impressed at how well they blended down here.
They ought to stop dicking around with more trials and officially issue MC to everyone, not just OEF Troops.
Coyote Vests and Pads, MC clothing and pouches. Done deal.
FWIW, I do think ATACS FG is the shit-diggity
best thing ive heard all day.
multicam should have been the standard like 6 years ago......
why spend a bunch of money (millions) on a new camo pattern when scientists and soldiers alike all agree multicam is amazing.
best thing ive heard all day.
multicam should have been the standard like 6 years ago......
why spend a bunch of money (millions) on a new camo pattern when scientists and soldiers alike all agree multicam is amazing.
Agreed. Also MC works well just about everywhere. Especially when its "broken in" and a little faded.
a little sanity?
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2012/06/28/army-to-recommend-multicam-for-entire-force.html?comp=7000023317828&rank=1&utm_source=June+30+BTW&utm_campaign=BTW+June+30&utm_medium=email
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Sometimes me thinks the troops would be better off if you just handed out a Cabelas catalog and photos of the environment they'll be fighting in to the NCOs, give them a charge card, and call it a day!
Most hunting camo is designed first to look good to the person buying it, not to be the most effective. Just like all the different camo the branches have developed.
I think this is a good time for the DOD to lay the smack down on all the branches for wasting money on branch specific vanity "camo".
RogerinTPA
06-30-12, 21:21
Agreed. It's hard to believe that back in the day, all the branches of the military wore BDUs, and no one said a thing. Now it's all a fashion statement, where the original intent is lost in all the BS.
Most hunting camo is designed first to look good to the person buying it, not to be the most effective. Just like all the different camo the branches have developed.
I think this is a good time for the DOD to lay the smack down on all the branches for wasting money on branch specific vanity "camo".
Sometimes me thinks the troops would be better off if you just handed out a Cabelas catalog and photos of the environment they'll be fighting in to the NCOs, give them a charge card, and call it a day!
I realize you're probably joking, but if you want to know why that's a bad idea:
Google "Near Infrared" and NIR compliance. You'd be glowing bright white under NOD's with RMP (Redneck Militia Pattern) uniforms out of Cabelas.
Hunting / Redneck Militia camouflage sucks in the regular visible spectrum anyway.
Agreed. It's hard to believe that back in the day, all the branches of the military wore BDUs, and no one said a thing. Now it's all a fashion statement, where the original intent is lost in all the BS.
"Back in the day" when I came on active duty we (USMC) wore jungle ERDL camo, as did army Rangers and SOF (woodlad ERDL). Some army units wore green "jungles". Regular army, air force, and navy SeaBees wore "dungarees". This "we all wore BDU's was actually a very short time in history and those BDU's sucked. This one uniform for all is some supply puke's dream come true but nowhere near a tactical reality.
I had a friend wear those while playing airsoft. Lite him up several times due to the fact it was easily seen. So much for camouflage. :secret::suicide:
At large games, I would roll with a well organized group of guys - when they all wore ACU and I wore my Marpat, we were ineffective unless we were going structure to structure. Next game in Multicam, we ran the 250 player field as a single squad. That was the most conclusive demonstration I ever saw.
What remains to be see is how long it'll take the AF to decide that their Liger Stripe pattern was an utter mistake.
At large games, I would roll with a well organized group of guys - when they all wore ACU and I wore my Marpat, we were ineffective unless we were going structure to structure. Next game in Multicam, we ran the 250 player field as a single squad. That was the most conclusive demonstration I ever saw.
What remains to be see is how long it'll take the AF to decide that their Liger Stripe pattern was an utter mistake.
They aren't trying to hide from anyone with it so maybe they don't care.
RogerinTPA
07-02-12, 14:14
I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest here. I am aware of the ERDL's during my time in the Army. I even wore them at some point, along with OG107s. I was even bouncing back and forth between all 3. I couldn't tell you what the Corp wore across that time period or any other service or when they finally phased them out and went to BDUs. Nor did I, or at this current moment, care. Your reference as to the BDUs being standardized across the services was "a very small time frame" seems to be "several years" by my account. My statement was a generalized observation, from my perspective only, and in no way was meant to be a "minute by minute" blow by blow, correct historical account... I still stand by my original statement.;)
"Back in the day" when I came on active duty we (USMC) wore jungle ERDL camo, as did army Rangers and SOF (woodlad ERDL). Some army units wore green "jungles". Regular army, air force, and navy SeaBees wore "dungarees". This "we all wore BDU's was actually a very short time in history and those BDU's sucked. This one uniform for all is some supply puke's dream come true but nowhere near a tactical reality.
A short period for BDUs: I wore BDUs in the AF from 1988 - 2008ish. Prior to that it was fatigues.
Bdus and dcus are acceptable for a majority of the troops. The signal battalion on our fob in the sandbox did 3 on 3 off with 6 hour shifts in their PTs.
Belmont31R
07-03-12, 22:20
Bdus and dcus are acceptable for a majority of the troops. The signal battalion on our fob in the sandbox did 3 on 3 off with 6 hour shifts in their PTs.
When was this?
I was signal and our shortest delpoyment was 12 months. First was 15 months (first I didn't do 15mos but my unit did. I was a replacement fresh out of AIT).
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-03-12, 23:30
I realize you're probably joking, but if you want to know why that's a bad idea:
Google "Near Infrared" and NIR compliance. You'd be glowing bright white under NOD's with RMP (Redneck Militia Pattern) uniforms out of Cabelas.
Hunting / Redneck Militia camouflage sucks in the regular visible spectrum anyway.
I think you can blame Invista, which I think was spun off of DuPont, as much for the camo snafu as anything. They came out with their IR compliant new Cordura fabric, but the colors suck.
http://specops.pl/pdf/cordura_ir.pdf
Nylon fabric is great for coloring with dyes, but organic dyes absorb in the visible for color and are actually IR transparent, that is why the fabric looks dark in daylight and with nIR goggles it 'glows'. The googles are seeing the reflective nylon fabric underneath. This transparency is what allows some night vision to 'see thru' clothes. I've actually made business cards that have a black coating that blocks visible, but allows nIR thru. You have a black business card that can only be read, and read prefectly clearly, with nIR imaging equipement. Kind of fun for the right crowds.
It's interesting to look at the CARC coatings products and the personal gear stuff. When you want to paint something you pretty much go to see one group of guys and all their stuff is consistent across the board. I asked about all the personal gear and all you can get is general directions toward Natick and it seems there is no grand wizard keeping everything together on all the gear projects. Add in all the other services and it kept my color matching lab busy.
At large games, I would roll with a well organized group of guys - when they all wore ACU and I wore my Marpat, we were ineffective unless we were going structure to structure. Next game in Multicam, we ran the 250 player field as a single squad. That was the most conclusive demonstration I ever saw.
What remains to be see is how long it'll take the AF to decide that their Liger Stripe pattern was an utter mistake.
It's all dependent on where they go in theater, but AF is wearing MC too.
When was this?
I was signal and our shortest delpoyment was 12 months. First was 15 months (first I didn't do 15mos but my unit did. I was a replacement fresh out of AIT).
2004. They probably did a 12 month deployment. The 3 on, 3 off was duty days. It might have been 8 hour shift, not 6.
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