View Full Version : Mil-spec vs Non Mil-spec...the debate rages on
Couldn't help myself from posting this (I hope I didn't violate any board rules, just thought I share the humor). If I've broken any board rules simply delete this posting.
Some of you should get a kick out of ignorance and sheer stubbornness of some people that still swear their Non mil-spec AR is just as good as a Mil-spec rated AR.
It gets a little testy in some of the postings...and just plain illogical in others.....enjoy, but if you start laughing too hard take a break...I had to.
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=221106
I have not read it yet but survivalistboards.com has some of the most ignorant people on the internet all in one place, basically. They are always trying to argue that the AR15 is a shitty rifle and that commercial ones are better than mil-spec, and 5.56 is an inadequate round, etc, etc. I don't even want to read it because I get mad instead of laughing!
Eh, it isn't really a debate raging on it is just a continuation of people not understanding that there are three ways to compare quality and they each have a unique definition.
Just as good.
Equal in quality.
Suits my needs.
Until the difference is realized there won't be an end to the mil spec v. non-spec items, 9mm v. 45ACP, Ford v. Chevy, etc.
Define mil-spec.
Is a KAC SR15 lower with all it's ambi and QD doo-dads mil-spec?
Is a KAC SR15's proprietary gas mil-spec?
Is a KAC SR15's proprietary bolt mil-spec?
Is a LaRue billet lower mil-spec?
Is a Noveske Gen 2 lower mil-spec?
Is a Noveske stainless barrel mil-spec?
Define mil-spec.
Is a KAC SR15 lower with all it's ambi and QD doo-dads mil-spec?
Is a KAC SR15's proprietary gas mil-spec?
Is a KAC SR15's proprietary bolt mil-spec?
Is a LaRue billet lower mil-spec?
Is a Noveske Gen 2 lower mil-spec?
Is a Noveske stainless barrel mil-spec?
I don't think you're going to find people to look up specific individual parts like that, especially as they most likely haven't been submitted for testing, so will just say that if they can at minimum meet the standards for materials, hardnesses, weight, accuracy, performance under specified conditions, coatings/finishes, durability, quality and likely other parameters, then yes, they are milspec.
Milspecs are the minimum standards at which a component, part, device, whatever has at the very least be capable of to be considered as *serviceable. While the above items may not now or ever actually be in the .mil is questionable, but I'd hazard they can indeed meet the standards.
Now if there's a clause in the specs that say 'and must fit X platform without modification or alteration' then the wheels may fall off the cart, but otherwise. :shrug:
*'Servicable' in the sense of 'in the supply stream/inventory', not 'fits and looks like everything we have now'.
I just threw it out there because 'mil-spec' means a lot of different things to a lot of different people, so I tend to use that phrase with caution.
An unmodified Colt M4 is the true definition of mil-spec for some folks.
I usually tend to just exit a thread like that with so much stupidity as it's all wasted energy. I appreciate the folks trying to fight the ignorance battles, even if only to save a few lives, but it's not for me anymore. The comment from one of the main posters discussing the $700 DPMS vs. the $2K LWRC and that they were the 'same basic shape' and 'both shot bullets in a straight line' and that he 'didn't see twice the rifle' was when I started getting angry.
Snake_Pliskin
06-26-12, 14:21
Forgive me if this is stating the obvious.
One advantage in a Mil-Spec AR is (should be) interchangeability of parts. That standardization gives the hobby rifle builder the flexibility to select components from various manufactures and have some reasonable assurance that they will fit together.
Another would be the base design standards, backed by testing and modified over 50+ years of real world use, driving decisions made regarding material specs, tolerances, performance criteria, etc. that has resulted in the current Mil-Spec AR form.
Having said that, I think it's great that there are several savvy manufactures that have taken the above and found ways to tweak a damn good mouse trap into a better one.
Therefore, I believe the argument over which is better; Mil-Spec or Non-Mil-Spec is kind of pointless. It's apples and oranges and there's a market for both.
This is just again another example of people being emotionally tied to their purchases and not viewing it with an objective eye. This will be the case forever, and for most of those people, until they have their "Clockwork Orange" moment, they will continue to view things subjectively. All you can do is offer explanation, and anything beyond that simply makes you as annoying as they are.
This debate has been covered countless number of times, and the result is always the same. It's not worth it to engage those people, it just makes you look as silly as they do.
$700 DPMS vs. the $2K LWRC and that they were the 'same basic shape' and 'both shot bullets in a straight line' and that he 'didn't see twice the rifle'
Yeah, I hear ya.
That type is almost assuredly the same as the ones that swear up and down that the Fusion down at the Ford dealership is just as good as the Fusion running around a NASCAR track because not only do they look alike, they are both from the same manufacturer.
You know, retards.
LtNovakUSA
06-26-12, 15:49
Ive stopped even trying to figure out the logic. When I hear people at work talking about how nice their bushmaster with Wal Mart optic is, I just let them tell me how great it is. Its not even worth the argument, especially when you get the "oh your just an elitist" BS. This mentality is not specific to firearms either - as a guitar player too, i get to hear how my guitars are too expensive when X brand is just as good
When this topic comes up on Corvette forum I've been a member of a long time I ask them if they would buy their Corvette if Chevy said it had enough horsepower or when asked what kind of pistons the V-8 has Chevy said "metal." Then I remind them that their Corvette is a toy and they demand the specifications for it so why not demand the specs for something far more important. Then I get the "good enough" answer and they leave the debate.
People don't know what they don't know. And people who have no interest in learning annoy me.
Those people deserve their DPMS hobby guns.
First off thanks to all that took time to comment.
Whether a guy wants a LMT, Noveske or a Bushmaster is of little concern to me (I have my 2 ARs and I'm more than happy with them).
My biggest issue with the argument is when people are asked for advice on buying a nice AR and some jackwagon insist there is no difference between a Colt and a DPMS (Bushmaster and about 2 dozen other ARs out there).
I don't care if the guy wants to shoot a Bushmaster, just don't advise someone about an AR platform....swearing it's just as good as a Larue, BCM or Colt when it clearly has no place in a conversation relating to quality ARs. Then, when confronted on their ignorance will argue the point to no end....as several have done in the thread link I posted.
That kind of arrogance and ignorance is enough to make someone scream. :shout:
:bad:
I made it through the first two pages of that dribble and had to stop. ARFCOM must be filling up, I guess the mouth breathers need somewhere to go...
Ive stopped even trying to figure out the logic. When I hear people at work talking about how nice their bushmaster with Wal Mart optic is, I just let them tell me how great it is. Its not even worth the argument, especially when you get the "oh your just an elitist" BS. This mentality is not specific to firearms either - as a guitar player too, i get to hear how my guitars are too expensive when X brand is just as good
If the man buys a Bushmaster and is happy the way it performs for him, then he should have everyright to bragg about his rifle. People's needs and wants are all different. I like Colt. I know it is a quailty gun (also my first AR). That being said, I've owned different brands. Some were good, some not so good. I listen to people all the time tell me that their gun is good as any out there. I don't argue the point with people because frankly I don't care. It is their money and if they buy an DPMS and love, than the more power to them.
And the debate is dead. We don't really care what members of some other board want to debate or what makes them happy.
We have had the debate here enough times and there is no need to rehash it again.
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