View Full Version : Anyone loading 300BLK ?
Used to reload pistol calibers a few years ago but got rid of everything since I thought I could not justify the cost for time. Now I have a little more time and with the cost of the 300 black out I need to get going again.
Any special considerations to consider for this cartridge or rifle in general?
What is you recipe if you don't mind sharing and what have you been able to get your cost per round down to?
Thanks for the help.
I haven't physically started, although I have all the parts on the shelf to do it.
I highly recommend a semi-auto press. I use a Dillon 550B and currently load .44 magnum, .40 S&W, .50 Beowulf, .223, and now .300 AAC BLK. Once the primer system is set up for small or large, it's a quick change between calibers.
I'm going to reload the factory remington UMC 115gr loads after I shoot them, because they're aren't much more expensive than buying new brass.
For my first supersonic loads, going with Hornady V-max 115gr bullets with 'lil gun powder.
I'm loading 147gr pulled bullets for plinking ammo with H110 powder
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I'd say 98% of what I shoot out of my 300 blk is reloads! Supers/Subs and alot of cast bullets!:D
Is there a company making carbide dies for reloading 300BLK?
All I have is Dillon so it'd be cool to get 300BLK carbide Dillon dies too.
Is there a company making carbide dies for reloading 300BLK?
All I have is Dillon so it'd be cool to get 300BLK carbide Dillon dies too.
Not that I know of. Are you expecting to them to load better?
Blame any misspellings on Tapatalk
Stan_TheGunNut
08-11-12, 14:46
I load subsonic rounds for my 300 Whisper/300-221/300 Fireball/300 Blackout. They're very close to the same, with the 300 Blackout being standardized. While my carbine was assembled prior to the 300 Blackout coming out, I have shot subsonic Blackout rounds through it with no problems. I think the load is very similar.
My carbine has an adjustable gas block at the pistol position, 12 inch barrel 1/8 twist with H2 buffer. I have been loading a 220 grain SMK to ~1050 fps suppressed (average over 5 shots) with Alliant 2400 powder. The dies are Redding 300/221 though I think that 300 Blackout dies are available now. The brass was Winchester 223 that I cut down. Cycling has been 100% with my homebrew and with the subsonic 300 Blackout loads.
The Dillon can be used with the Redding dies and an AK powder funnel.
Since you still need to lube cases with carbide rifle dies, what is the benefit? I've heard they last longer but damn my dies have been around a looooong time.
Since you still need to lube cases with carbide rifle dies, what is the benefit? I've heard they last longer but damn my dies have been around a looooong time.
They cycle much smoother. I have .223 carbides... but I would be fine with regular steel dies.
I put a 300 blk upper together for a guy here Friday. I think he's handloading his ammo while he waits for his stamp to show up.
I hope to run his upper on one of my lowers soon.
Nightvisionary
08-16-12, 22:32
I just got my 300 BLK barrel in yesterday. I have found that the best bullets suitable for 300 Blk supersonic are sold out everywhere. Barnes TAC-TX black tips and Sierra 125 grain Pro-Hunter are unavailable with back order dates 3-5 months out. Doesn't leave a whole lot of options if you are looking for a bullet that offers deep penetration with good weight retention.
Im fully setup to load 300blk as well as convert .223/5.56 brass into 300blk.
Bought the trimmer setup for the 550b from Bradswarehouse.com to use with my Dillon RT1200.
Using Forster competition dies and a Lee FCD.
Just loaded my first rounds yesterday and shot them today. 150g FMJBT's from Hornady. Going to actually run 147g mil pulls, but the 150g will work for load development
Used H110, but I think I am going to switch to Lil-Gun since the H110 showed pressure signs pretty easily(blew some primers as well as lots of ejector swipe). 17g, 17.1, and 17.2 were ok then at .3, .4, .5, .6 and .7 I blew primers and had ejector swipe on almost every case. 17g gave me the best groups though. Most guys say Lil-Gun runs less pressure, but still good velocity.
as well as convert .223/5.56 brass into 300blk.
How does that process work, Big Daddio?
How does that process work, Big Daddio?
Lets see if this works
OK, here goes on the brass conversion process. I will post some reviews of the tools used as well as how I went about setting it up. Hopefully it makes sense. I was thinking of posting up a video, but there honestly a few online that are basically the same thing I am doing so maybe I will grab a link to one of those.
Brad's Warehouse modified 550b tool head and trimming/forming die. These are made by Whidden Gun Works. The tool head is not simply a cut down Dillon tool head, but a CNC machined brand new tool head. I had to shave some material off of one side because it would not slide into my press. You can see the little step up right at the hole the locator pin drops into. I didnt have to take all that material off, but a bit to get it to slide in. The other side needed no work, the back needed no work, just that one part. A little work with a file had things working a lot better. I guess this is better than if it was way under sized and loose in the press. The trimming/sizing die is pretty nice too. This tool head is also milled on the bottom to allow your lock ring to go there since there isnt room on the top. I had to try 3 or 4 lock rings before I found one that was small enough to work. You have to take the tool head out of the press to snug it down because there was no way to turn it with the tool head in the press. This and the little filing I had to do on the tool head where the two things that made me want to pull my hair out, but once I figured those two issues out everything else went well. I am not sure if my lock ring was a factory dillon ring, a Lee ring, Hornady, or RCBS, I dont know. It was a standard with no set screws or anything like that, fairly small OD. I will try to shoot a picture and get it up here.
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/9567/imag0516y.jpg
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/1849/imag0517ea.jpg
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/274/imag0518e.jpg
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/6442/imag0526c.jpg
http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/8979/imag0519e.jpg
First step in the process is to set head spacing. To do this you simply run the forming/trim die down until you are at spec. You need to have a case gauge for this. I didnt take pictures of any of the brass I used for this because I ended up trimming it for use so I didnt actually waste any brass except for the 2 or 3 where I set the shoulder slightly low. I think I used 5 or 6 pieces of brass to get it just right and then after running 10 pieces through I actually ran the die down just slightly lower. I used a piece of new factory loaded ammo as well as a piece of once fired brass from my gun to setup head spacing. I think I set it up kind of in between, but at the point I was at I was trying to get it within maybe a couple thousands so pretty dang close. Factory non-fired dropped slightly deeper into the gauge and the once fired was slightly higher. If I find I have issues with it running in my gun I will probably crank down the die just ever so slightly more, but I am pretty happy with where I am at. I also have not run this brass through a full length die with an expander ball. That may sharpen everything up just slightly more and get me even closer to being perfect.
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3339/imag0520o.jpg
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3703/imag0521d.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8375/imag0527e.jpg
Factory non fired round in the case gauge
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/492/imag0532q.jpg
I believe this is where I ended up. I cant find the picture of the once fired in the case gauge, but it was basically level with the top of the gauge. The factory was level with the bottom, and I was in between.
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/5286/imag0533y.jpg
But, like I said, once I started running a few cases through I dropped the die down slightly more, but I dont know if I took any pictures of them in the case gauge, but it looked way closer to factory non fired than the first 10 or so I did(I ran them back through).
So after I had that setup I got the trimmer set. 1.368 is max and it was recommended to trim to 1.358. I got pretty damn close and called it good. I was getting 1.358-1.359.
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2479/imag0530r.jpg
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3762/imag0529n.jpg
This was what I ended up with. From left to right: 1 of the 1st 10 I did. Factory non-fired. Final setup(after 10 I cranked the die down a little more). Factory once fired.
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/3391/imag0536t.jpg
Trimming this much brass off causes lots of shavings and long slivers. The way the milled tool head is and how short everything becomes you cant use the blue ring vacuum attachment that comes with the Dillon RT1200. There simply isn't the height required. The recommendation was to modify a vacuum cleaner nozzle attachment to basically surround the die and cutter. So out came the dremel to a nozzle I found in the garage(I hope I dont need that nozzle later) and this is what I came up with after trimming and measuring and trimming some more. The only issue is its open on the right side so you have to kinda have your thumb ride on it to deflect brass shavings back into the vacuum. I will figure out something to put in there at a later date, but for now, my thumb works fine.
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9867/imag0537y.jpg
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/1058/imag0538v.jpg
Are you annealing your necks at all?
Are you annealing your necks at all?
nope. I read a lot on 300blktalk about it and I cant really find anybody that is doing it and the guys that are doing it arent really seeing much difference. I dont care about case life(one argument for annealing) since I have so much .223 that I can convert. Crimping has shown to be more beneficial than annealing in the neck tension category. Lots of guys were not crimping and their ES and MV numbers were way out of whack. With a good crimp from a Lee FCD, their numbers came down dramatically.
.300 black accuracy seems to be very case prep dependent. I plan to run all my brass through the trimmer and full length size it every single time before I load it. Consistency in this regard seems to reward. That and finding a load that works well in your gun.
Lots of guys were not crimping and their ES and MV numbers were way out of whack. With a good crimp from a Lee FCD, their numbers came down dramatically.
I agree with that for .223 too!
Yeah.. I don't anneal .223 brass for that very reason... I have tons of it.
Maryland_Shooter
08-20-12, 08:51
nope. I read a lot on 300blktalk about it and I cant really find anybody that is doing it and the guys that are doing it arent really seeing much difference. I dont care about case life(one argument for annealing) since I have so much .223 that I can convert. Crimping has shown to be more beneficial than annealing in the neck tension category. Lots of guys were not crimping and their ES and MV numbers were way out of whack. With a good crimp from a Lee FCD, their numbers came down dramatically.
.300 black accuracy seems to be very case prep dependent. I plan to run all my brass through the trimmer and full length size it every single time before I load it. Consistency in this regard seems to reward. That and finding a load that works well in your gun.
I have to disagree. IMHO, and as you noted, case prep is really important and after I started using annealed brass and crimping, my ES and SD went from obscene to pretty good. I posted the results at 300 BLK Talk
Lil'Gun Loading Data Only (http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=80394)
I can post the thread over here if you like, but I have been really working hard on this round and am publishing all the numbers.
Yeah. The reason I'd think you'd want to anneal is that you're work hardening the brass by reforming it from another cartridge.
You want the case head hard, but not the neck. I've never done this though... so.... :confused:
Maryland_Shooter
08-20-12, 09:23
Yeah. The reason I'd think you'd want to anneal is that you're work hardening the brass by reforming it from another cartridge.
You want the case head hard, but not the neck. I've never done this though... so.... :confused:
I am buying brass from a good guy that anneals, sent him 4K cases of .223 . . . cheaper than buying the annealer and I have close to zero faith in my ability to properly anneal with a torch and pan of water.
I am buying brass from a good guy that anneals, sent him 4K cases of .223 . . . cheaper than buying the annealer and I have close to zero faith in my ability to properly anneal with a torch and pan of water.
Yeah... Annealing is a whole other world. You don't need the water. I hand anneal .308 and Magnum Rifle brass all the time.
With .223/5.56 brass... I've not had neck tension issues... But .308 really made a difference in bullet seating consistency... even after 1 or 2 firings.
I anneal big bore rifle brass every firing.
Maryland_Shooter
08-20-12, 09:33
Thanks - that's good to know.
Raven Armament
08-26-12, 09:32
The problem with using the Dillon trimmer to trim from .223 to .300 BLK is you are using it outside the operating parameters and void the warranty on the trimmer. Too much load on the trimmer. For this reason I use a cutoff saw to cut a large portion of the brass first, then run it in the trimmer to minimize wear on the trimmer motor.
As far as annealing goes, yea it probably would help a little, but for me this round isnt going to be a "can I put 10 rounds through the same hole" type of round. Is it capable of it, probably(even though that one guy on 300blktalk says otherwise) with the right gun, right ammo, right shooter, etc... Im shooting a 9" upper and(eventually) through a can. If I am 2-3 MOA at 100 yards its doing what I want it to do. I have other rifles if precision is the name of the game.
I might try annealing some case necks, but like you guys, I am not an annealing expert(never done it before) so I may actually do more harm than good.
The problem with using the Dillon trimmer to trim from .223 to .300 BLK is you are using it outside the operating parameters and void the warranty on the trimmer. Too much load on the trimmer. For this reason I use a cutoff saw to cut a large portion of the brass first, then run it in the trimmer to minimize wear on the trimmer motor.
My motor is out of warranty(at least the published 1 year warranty) and i understand it comes with how I am doing the brass. I heard reports of anywhere from 10k-40k rounds before the motors went out(bearing in the bottom seizes from what I understand Dillon saying). I run about 50 cases through mine and then take it off to cool while I run that brass through a Forster full length sizing die and then chamfer and debur it. Ive done about 350 or so cases through it over the course of about an 8 hour day. I figure as long as I make it through 1500 or so pieces of brass I will have broken even on a motor and the trim die and custom tool head since Brads Warehouse charges $334 for 1500 pieces of brass and others are fairly similar. I have $108 into the trim die and tool head and $230 into my motor.
If I was doing this for guys and running thousands and thousands of rounds through I would probably cut off the neck of the 5.56 cases before processing them, but for now ill just continue to jam em home into the trimmer head. Im fairly careful to not let the motor slow down to much and to keep an even amount of slow, steady, light pressure on the handle as I run it up into the die. I can tell by the sound if I am trying to go to fast or what not.
I might try annealing some case necks, but like you guys, I am not an annealing expert(never done it before) so I may actually do more harm than good.
It might be worth it for you if you want to get max case life. You'll prevent case neck splits. But if that's not an issue, I'd skip it.
Maryland_Shooter
08-27-12, 06:51
I have been getting much more consistent results using annealed brass. Others have reported the same results.
I have been getting much more consistent results using annealed brass. Others have reported the same results.
results meaning neck tension? or accuracy? or both?
Maryland_Shooter
08-27-12, 07:43
Meaning my ES and SD were really obscene without a crimp and annealed brass. When I added a crimp with the Lee FCD, it improved and when I use annealed brass, it improved.
Some data below, but all using Lil'Gun
http://marylandshooter.com/Reloading/300BLK/data.jpg
More Data Here (http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=80394)
Cool. Yeah... the Lee FCD is used on our .223 loads and they're amazing with no Annealing.
It might be worth it for you if you want to get max case life. You'll prevent case neck splits. But if that's not an issue, I'd skip it.
I have a basically unlimited supply of .223 brass like I said so I am not to worried about it. My SOT has used non-annealed brass for sub sonics(which is probably 90% of what I will be loading) 10-12 times with no case neck splits.
I have been getting much more consistent results using annealed brass. Others have reported the same results.
I am not arguing that it probably does give better results, but for me and what I am going to be doing with this round(having fun with it through a can) I dont think, again to me, its worth the effort. But like I also said, I might play around with it and see what its all about since I have never annealed anything.
I dont think, again to me, its worth the effort. But like I also said, I might play around with it and see what its all about since I have never annealed anything.
If you ever get to where you want to mess with it. Give a shout. I do mine by hand with a basic torch on the top of my Washing machine.
Be careful of what videos are out there on youtube, etc. There's a lot of bad annealing info... There's guys getting the brass glowing red hot... that's too much.
If you ever get to where you want to mess with it. Give a shout. I do mine by hand with a basic torch on the top of my Washing machine.
Be careful of what videos are out there on youtube, etc. There's a lot of bad annealing info... There's guys getting the brass glowing red hot... that's too much.
Mark, I'd love more info on how you do it. I have a batch of brass that's prepped for loading but not annealed.
Blame any misspellings on Tapatalk
The thing that concerns me is how short the 300 brass is. When I do a piece of 308 brass, I can just hold it in my hand with a Nomex glove on.
I spin the brass in the flame with my fingers. A 308 case head gets a little warm... but a 300, being so short, might get a bit hotter. some guys use deep well sockets to hold their brass in the flame.
Each caliber is different for flame time. Thin necks anneal faster, ect. You want to get the brass to where it's just starting to get a low glow when you're in a dark room. They make this stuff called tempilac... but I neither trust it or use it.
Flame time will depend on your fuel and your torch. I have a weird torch that has me running my necks longer than some guys report.
I'm going to tumble and run a few pieces of 300 tonight. I'll see if I can get a pic or two up.
Maryland_Shooter
08-27-12, 09:38
Why don't you trust tempilac?
For someone starting from scratch, they need something as a guide.
Why don't you trust tempilac?
For someone starting from scratch, they need something as a guide.
I've read a ton on the topic over on accurateshooter.com... There's been guys who cook the brass til the tempilac runs and they're getting too much heat.
If you practice on scrap brass, you'll get to where you know when you're getting the right flame time. I use the dark room method until I know how many seconds a kind/caliber of brass needs.
Here's some 300 brass I deprimed, SS media tumbled, and annealed last night.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/trixiebud/300blk.jpg
Maryland_Shooter
08-28-12, 15:28
Looks very nice. I am all set to receive 2,250 pieces of 300 BLK brass annealed on Wednesday. I asked for them 1.365 so I can trim with the Giraud to 1.360 and have a really nice edge.
So - how do you know they are annealed properly?
So - how do you know they are annealed properly?
Experience... and I don't say that to sound arrogant.
I've just learned by doing it a lot. You can see the color change... and you can tell by doing it in a dark room. When you just get them to where they start to get a slight glow, you've got it.
Then you flip on the lights and see the color.
My final confirmation is seating the bullets. You can feel it in the press.... consistent force to seat the bullet. On 308 I'd get some really stiff bullets every to often.... it's just a feel thing with the bullet seating.
xdm40Rajuy
08-28-12, 15:49
So how often do you anneal?
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Maryland_Shooter
08-28-12, 20:46
Experience... and I don't say that to sound arrogant.
I've just learned by doing it a lot. You can see the color change... and you can tell by doing it in a dark room. When you just get them to where they start to get a slight glow, you've got it.
Then you flip on the lights and see the color.
My final confirmation is seating the bullets. You can feel it in the press.... consistent force to seat the bullet. On 308 I'd get some really stiff bullets every to often.... it's just a feel thing with the bullet seating.
Sorry if I sound like an ass, but without some objective way to measure any change that annealing may bring, it's not really convincing.
I'll stick with templac or the Giraud annealer.
So how often do you anneal?
Every time I load.
Sorry if I sound like an ass, but without some objective way to measure any change that annealing may bring, it's not really convincing.
I'll stick with templac or the Giraud annealer.
No problem. But the thing about the Giraud is you still have to set your own flame time.... and it's unique to the brass you're running. The Giraud is just less labor intensive and slightly more consistent.
Cool for sure.... but not worth the money for me. (I do run the Giraud trimmer)
You can use the vice grip method to test the spring back on the brass. I've never had to. You know when you've got it.... and you can see the zinc flow when you ruin a case.
Maryland_Shooter
08-29-12, 12:46
Every time I load.
No problem. But the thing about the Giraud is you still have to set your own flame time.... and it's unique to the brass you're running. The Giraud is just less labor intensive and slightly more consistent.
Cool for sure.... but not worth the money for me. (I do run the Giraud trimmer)
You can use the vice grip method to test the spring back on the brass. I've never had to. You know when you've got it.... and you can see the zinc flow when you ruin a case.
I have near 3.5K cases of annealed 300 BLK, so I may just experiment some. Thanks for the tips.
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