View Full Version : Could Del-ton be catching up?
Technical data looks pretty good.
https://www.del-ton.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=EXTREME316
MSRP of $989 - should be around $750-$850
Looks better than other rifles in that price range
Barrel:
•Hammer Forged CMV Chrome Lined
•HPT/MPI Tested
•M4 Feed Ramps
•16" Length
•1x7 Twist
•Manganese Phosphated
•Phosphated under Front Sight Base
•Taper Pins on F-Marked Front Sight Base
•Threaded Muzzle - A2 Flash Hider
•M4 Profile
Chamber:
•5.56 X 45 mm
Bolt And Carrier:
•Phosphated 8620 Steel Carrier Assembly
•Carpenter 158 Bolt HPT/MPI Tested
•Heat Treated and Plated
•Mil-Spec
•Chrome Lined Carrier Interior
•Carrier Key - chrome lined, attached with Grade 8 Screws
•Properly Staked & Sealed Gas Key
Handguards:
•M4 Carbine Length
•Aluminum Delta Ring
•Double Heat Shield
Upper Receiver:
•Forged 7075 T6 Aluminum
•Flat Top with M4 Feed Ramps
•Hard Coat Anodized
•Mil-Spec
•Ejection Port Cover and Round Forward Assist
•Right Hand Ejection
•Bore's surface is coated with dry film lube, over the anodized surface
Rear Sight:
•Troy DOA Folding Rear Sight
•200 & 600 Meter Apertures
Lower Receiver:
•Forged 7075 T6 Aluminum
•Hard Coat Anodized
•Mil-Spec
•Aluminum Triggerguard
•Semi-Auto
•Aluminum Mag Catch Button
•H-Buffer
Buttstock:
•M4 Stock
•Reinforced Fiber
•Mil-Spec Buffer Tube
Weight:
•6.4 lbs Empty
Length:
•35.58" Fully Extended
•32.25" Collapsed
Accessories:
•Hard Case
•1 x 30rd Magazine
•Gun Lock
Looks pretty good, as long as they're building those parts with care.
It's called getting a clue. Good for them.
Next up? Consistency.
I'd still never buy one. Just because it looks good on paper... that means nothing... I'm more concerned about consistency, quality control, customer service, preventative testing, and did I mention quality control?
It's funny how one of their specs is a "properly staked gas key" -- is this implying that their other guns do not have a properly staked gas key? It's pretty clear they are just doing the "me too" thing. I wouldn't touch a Del-Ton with a 10 foot pole.
It's funny how all the crappy commercial brands are jumping on the mil-spec bandwagon but yet all the fans and commercial supporters insist that mil-spec is not any better. In fact, a lot of guys (Nutnfancy comes to mind) claim that a commercial rifle from Bushmaster, RRA, Del-Ton, etc actually exceeds mil-spec. Yeah.... funny....
I'd still never buy one. Just because it looks good on paper... that means nothing... I'm more concerned about consistency, quality control, customer service, preventative testing, and did I mention quality control?
It's funny how one of their specs is a "properly staked gas key" -- is this implying that their other guns do not have a properly staked gas key? It's pretty clear they are just doing the "me too" thing. I wouldn't touch a Del-Ton with a 10 foot pole.
It's funny how all the crappy commercial brands are jumping on the mil-spec bandwagon but yet all the fans and commercial supporters insist that mil-spec is not any better. In fact, a lot of guys (Nutnfancy comes to mind) claim that a commercial rifle from Bushmaster, RRA, Del-Ton, etc actually exceeds mil-spec. Yeah.... funny....
Yup. Del Ton's marketing dept. must have discovered Rob's chart. :D Whether it's a bandwagon jump or a company/brand philosophical change will remain to be seen.
A decent rifle that is not Colt, DD, Noveske, or BCM? Impossible!!!!
What is this debauchery?
:D
All we ask are for the specs. Would you buy a sports car if they just said it has enough horse power?
I'd still never buy one. Just because it looks good on paper... that means nothing... I'm more concerned about consistency, quality control, customer service, preventative testing, and did I mention quality control?
It's funny how one of their specs is a "properly staked gas key" -- is this implying that their other guns do not have a properly staked gas key? It's pretty clear they are just doing the "me too" thing. I wouldn't touch a Del-Ton with a 10 foot pole.
It's funny how all the crappy commercial brands are jumping on the mil-spec bandwagon but yet all the fans and commercial supporters insist that mil-spec is not any better. In fact, a lot of guys (Nutnfancy comes to mind) claim that a commercial rifle from Bushmaster, RRA, Del-Ton, etc actually exceeds mil-spec. Yeah.... funny....
Well, there are always going to be those that will never feel that the BM, RRA, Del-Ton, DPMS, etc of the world will ever be "quality" firearms because of their past, even if they do make steps to try and improve their "qualilty", which it looks like Del-ton is attempting to do.
All we ask are for the specs. Would you buy a sports car if they just said it has enough horse power?
The specs are right above you
Tomahawk_Ghost
07-02-12, 14:50
Yup. Del Ton's marketing dept. must have discovered Rob's chart.
Dude you about made me spill my coffee.
I wish them success as an American manufacturer. Competition is good in the it fosters innovation and will create a better products.
I remember back in the day if you couldn't afford a Colt at least get a Bushmaster. Things are so much better now.
The more quality AR manufactures out there the better.
SomeOtherGuy
07-02-12, 15:42
I'd still never buy one. Just because it looks good on paper... that means nothing... I'm more concerned about consistency, quality control, customer service, preventative testing, and did I mention quality control?
Bingo. It's great that more companies are going "as good as" on paper, but my personal experience with three of those companies showed me they were not, in all ways, equal to the quality of my DD / BCM uppers. Consistency and quality control are chief among these - they cost money and they don't provide much boasting, but they are essential.
Separately, one of the older "as good as" brands had some serious allegations made against it that they simply weren't doing the things that they claimed. I never saw any resolution of those allegations either way, but that company's overall reputation has not transitioned into the top tier realm, probably for a reason. I am not claiming that DTI is failing in any of the things they claim to do, just noting that there is more to being top tier than simply scrawling out a list of specs that conform to the more widely quoted portions of the M4 TDP.
Now we just need a big enough sample size to decide if they really are "as good." Great to see them putting out an (apparently) quality product!! The more the merrier!
The specs are good. I agree that Robs chart has done a lot for the platform when it comes to manufactures. There are fewer cutting so many corners and are trying to put out a better product.
My only concern is while they may HPT/MPT the bolt, chamber, etc; is it done for each and every one, or is it done via batch testing?
If it is batch, I am still not going to buy one. However, if it is every single one, then I see nothing wrong with it.
I'd still never buy one. Just because it looks good on paper... that means nothing... I'm more concerned about consistency, quality control, customer service, preventative testing, and did I mention quality control?
It's funny how one of their specs is a "properly staked gas key" -- is this implying that their other guns do not have a properly staked gas key? It's pretty clear they are just doing the "me too" thing. I wouldn't touch a Del-Ton with a 10 foot pole.
It's funny how all the crappy commercial brands are jumping on the mil-spec bandwagon but yet all the fans and commercial supporters insist that mil-spec is not any better. In fact, a lot of guys (Nutnfancy comes to mind) claim that a commercial rifle from Bushmaster, RRA, Del-Ton, etc actually exceeds mil-spec. Yeah.... funny....
I don't remember him ever saying that those brands are better than mil-spec. One of the companies that i did hear him say that about is jp-enterprises.
hey if Delton can figure things out good for them. I do as many have stated, worry about the consistency of their products. One of my good friend's builds many delton kits for people and he says two identical rifle kits can be complete opposites as far as qc.
In fact, a lot of guys (Nutnfancy comes to mind) claim that a commercial rifle from Bushmaster, RRA, Del-Ton, etc actually exceeds mil-spec. Yeah.... funny....
Yeah when he mentioned that in his rra fetish video i stopped listening to him.
matthewdanger
07-02-12, 17:15
It is interesting how one man's "Extreme Duty" is another man's base line spec...
everyusernametaken
07-02-12, 17:27
is it done for each and every one, or is it done via batch testing?
If it is batch, I am still not going to buy one. However, if it is every single one, then I see nothing wrong with it.
I agree with this. They would probably specify if it was done for every unit.
SpyderMan2k4
07-02-12, 17:42
Im impressed that they are paying attention. I dont think its going to turn around their reputation immediately, but the proper steps seem to be taken to possibly compete with top tier guns. Thats never a bad thing
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HackerF15E
07-02-12, 17:43
DTI could sell badge-engineered Colt's rifles and internet forum posters would still call it a POS based on the name alone and without ever actually evaluating the product for real.
If they are selling better quality rifles, that is awesome...but it will take a long time to change their image with the AR enthusiast public.
lethal dose
07-02-12, 18:06
Time will tell. PSA looks good on paper, too but have had some issues. Regardless, I won't buy one.
My brother in law has a Del-Ton...not sure what model it is. It's a non chrome lined bore and chamber. But the bolt was marked HP/MPI...Guys it may have been, but it's just not the same quality as BCM, or Colt. It's just not. The finish isn't the of the same quality. The F'n Firing Pin seemed like it was made of ground magnesium... it was cheesy. It may have met mil spec...but barely. And I really doubt it was every bolt but rather batch tested.
I just wouldn't put it on par with Colt, BCM, LMT, DD, LWRC, Etc. Honestly, I wouldn't put Del-ton on par with Bushmaster, Stag, Doublestar, or any other fly by night carbine maker.
HackerF15E
07-02-12, 18:55
Time will tell. PSA looks good on paper, too but have had some issues.
Have they actually had performance, reliability, or quality issues with PSA rifles?
Or are you just referring to the customer service snafus?
It is interesting how one man's "Extreme Duty" is another man's base line spec...
Alot of truth to this, do you trust the mfgs who meet the specs day in and day out with all of their products or do you go for the one who only does it on occassion... Kinda like the Stag arms plus package.
Interesting. Previously they were cutting corners and yet some people were happy. Now they are changing their formula and trying to compete with the other names that have proven themselves.
I could care less what is on paper. They are going to have to produce quality and people will then have to judge for themselves.
Making a hundred good carbines is one thing, putting out thousands of carbines that perform over years is something else.
Interesting. Previously they were cutting corners and yet some people were happy. Now they are changing their formula and trying to compete with the other names that have proven themselves.
I could care less what is on paper. They are going to have to produce quality and people will then have to judge for themselves.
Making a hundred good carbines is one thing, putting out thousands of carbines that perform over years is something else.
hopefully this is a turn for the better for del-ton, maybe they got some new management that realized profit margins arent everything.
hey, competition is lovely.
vicious_cb
07-02-12, 19:46
Why would I buy a the new "high quality" delton carbine when I can get a BCM or DD for the same price and have been putting out a good carbine for years now?
Magic_Salad0892
07-02-12, 19:53
My brother in law has a Del-Ton...not sure what model it is. It's a non chrome lined bore and chamber. But the bolt was marked HP/MPI...Guys it may have been, but it's just not the same quality as BCM, or Colt. It's just not. The finish isn't the of the same quality. The F'n Firing Pin seemed like it was made of ground magnesium... it was cheesy. It may have met mil spec...but barely. And I really doubt it was every bolt but rather batch tested.
I just wouldn't put it on par with Colt, BCM, LMT, DD, LWRC, Etc. Honestly, I wouldn't put Del-ton on par with Bushmaster, Stag, Doublestar, or any other fly by night carbine maker.
You shouldn't include LWRCi because they do not build milspec rifles.
SomeOtherGuy
07-02-12, 20:14
Have they actually had performance, reliability, or quality issues with PSA rifles?
Or are you just referring to the customer service snafus?
Yes, actual quality issues. I've had THREE:
1) Spare bolt claiming to meet all milspecs - had a nicely park'd burr on a lug. It went back with no hassles, replaced with one with no apparent defects, they paid shipping both ways.
2) Complete "premium" BCG - with improperly machined cam pin track, which caused failures in the rifle that were fixed instantly by a BCM bcg. I had a HUGE runaround with them trying to get them to fix this. It ultimately got fixed due to their rep on m4c, but that was after nearly two months of hassle, and I had paid shipping the first return only to get the even-more-defective bcg back unfixed. You can look up my thread if you want.
3) Complete 20" rifle upper - they built it with an M4 handguard cap, which is (barely) functional but definitely not the norm. I read of others getting them the same way and have not bothered to ask for a replacement, since it does seem to work, although it is wrong.
YMMV. I've spent a decent bit of money with three "as good as" companies (two of which were the hottest new thing at the time, the third an established company that made something claiming to be milspec, different from their standard consumer grade) and have learned the hard way to buy from the companies that actually set the standard (Colt, DD, BCM, LMT).
Failure2Stop
07-02-12, 20:22
Yawn.
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