Ambi Overdose

[muddywings]

No, sorry, not talking about popping an excessive amount Ambien (ie: Tiger Woods), I’m talking ambidextrous controls.

First off, thanks for the great site! It’s been a ton of help with my research for my first AR and my first build. As of now I’m in the design phase with only the lower/safety on backorder. I do have a few opinion questions I would like to throw out there for those more experienced and I’m still at the point where I can change my mind if someone can throw out a better idea.

Let me start off with the purpose of the build-as I’m sure someone will ask. As a prepper novice I’m going after the general, all around, good home defense/SHTF gun. When you have Apocalypse 2012, Zombie Apocalypse, Skynet, global financial collapse, rogue nations, global warming, oil scarcity, etc etc, I think it is good to have a trusty rifle by your side. Of course I’m sorta kidding. I mean, the 2012 Apocalypse is pure BS….but zombies…that’s some real shit dwag! Have you been watching the news lately???

Ok with that out of the way my build plan, and what this query is about, is based on the most fully ambi AR-15 I can design. The issue is my wife shoots southpaw and I’m a normal person. Actually, my wife is a righty but is left eyed dominate-so even more dorked up (let’s just keep that between ourselves here…right friends?).

The major portion of the build:
AXTS AX556 lower (w/ BADASS safety): https://axtsweapons.com the ambi option is obvious here
BCM 16” upper: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16-bfh-ss12g2.htm I like the lower profile front rails that are coming out, the price is right, the reputation is good etc.
PSA ultimate LPK: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/lower-parts/ultimate-lower-build-kit.html I figure with the core options, go for the gusto early vs upgrading down the road so I’m going for a high end SSA trigger now as my wife is a fan of the precision shooting. Even with hard sights I’m sure she’ll want to go as far as she can to plink.
Raptor Charging Handle: http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3172 Sucker looks bad ass and gives that Ambi option that I’m looking for.

The above I’m pretty happy with but again, feel free to change my mind (my wife does it to me all the time).

Minor items:

Next I’m looking at the SLAP http://www.ikickhippies.com/ vs. the Magpul ASAP but again, any additional thoughts I would appreciate it. The small loop on the ASAP just seems excess and well, the SLAP is SO much cheaper.
Magpul MBUS sites (I’ll probably end around here for the sighting system and start saving the pennies for an RDS-see below)
A handstop vs. a vert forgrip: http://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/product/weapon-control-mount/ as the wife isn’t a fan of the “gangsta grip” and I would like something where I can counter-pull a tad. I like the slim design, lightweight option of the handstop.

So with the core out the way-the query:

First, Slings-I would like a 1 point that can convert to a 2 point so I’m looking at the Magpul MS3: http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG503/51
I’ve read some reviews and saw some YouTube but if anybody else can give an opinion on it I would appreciate it. Without putting hands on it, does it work well with a lefty (I can’t imagine why it wouldn’t but thought I would ask)?

After much debate I think I’ll be saving for an Aimpoint PRO and then further down the line get a magnifier (for the fun of it) but will just go with some “iron” sights and focus on the fundamentals. I’ll probably go with the MBUS system vs. more traditional fixed sights since I’ll keep them for the long run once I get the Aimpoint.

Lastly, and to be honest I haven’t spent much time researching this as the Aimpoint is higher priority but as for lights, I’m a bit of a loss for an ambi light. I was figuring instead of something offset like what I see generally, something more similar to what I see for handguns where it is an under the barrel near the hand stop. Pro/Cons, Suggestions?

Major questions:
Any other ambi options out there?
Anything I should change on the plan?
Light options?
So there is the reason and the build plan. Comments from the gallery are appreciated and welcome.

[sapper36]

Not to be rude, but if I were to build a "end of the world" rifle I would want one with a massive amount of commonly found parts. All of the ambi stuff can be overcome with practice shooting a standard rifle. Buying a good (LMT,DD,BCM,Colt etc) rifle and using the money saved by skipping the "sexy" stuff on ammo and training will put you ahead in the long run.

[wtheesfeld]

Not to be rude, but if I were to build a "end of the world" rifle I would want one with a massive amount of commonly found parts. All of the ambi stuff can be overcome with practice shooting a standard rifle. Buying a good (LMT,DD,BCM,Colt etc) rifle and using the money saved by skipping the "sexy" stuff on ammo and training will put you ahead in the long run.

I second this. Shtf guns should be as bone stock as possible. Nothing you talked about adding will increase accuracy from a stock setup, so it will be the plinker your wife wants, too.

I'd go (of course) for the most reliable, stock model I could find (colt, etc). This way when the "zombies" are coming, if you break something on your rifle, a replacement part can easilly be found for it.

Spend all that extra money you were going to spent on weird parts on ammo. Lots of it. You can't kill "zombies" by throwing charging handles and flip up magpul sights at them.

[chadil1ac]

I second this. Shtf guns should be as bone stock as possible. Nothing you talked about adding will increase accuracy from a stock setup, so it will be the plinker your wife wants, too.

I'd go (of course) for the most reliable, stock model I could find (colt, etc). This way when the "zombies" are coming, if you break something on your rifle, a replacement part can easilly be found for it.

Spend all that extra money you were going to spent on weird parts on ammo. Lots of it. You can't kill "zombies" by throwing charging handles and flip up magpul sights at them.

I have to disagree. A standard CH will work on a build if his ambi one breaks and it's better than nothing in a pinch. You don't need a "stock" rifle to be able to put parts onto it. Most things that are going to break will be able to be replaced easily still...Or even if his ambi mag release break, just put in a normal one. He doesn't have to replace it with the same part. It will work in a pinch as well.

I like the build you have laid out so far. For a good ambi flashlight, put an X300 on the top of the rail out at the end. Then put a FIXED DD front sight on it. No need for Magpul Flips. The DD isn't too expensive either. Worth it IMO and might as well put a fixed DD or Troy rear too. If you do lower 1/3 cowitness on the Aimpoint they will not be in the way, I promise.

There are more ways to go ambi such as a mag release and what not but I don't know much about them as I am a righty.

I will add that most lefties I know just train with a standard rifle and make it work for them. Then, if you get stuck with another rifle, it's not that much different.

[NoveskeFan]

You have an impressive list of parts, and sounds like a sweet build. As a first build or first AR, listen to above and get a stock BCM or Colt. You can train with it and add parts as you find you need them. You can add a Magpul BAD lever and ambi mag release down the road. But again, for your stated purpose, keep it simple.

[rainbow5ive]

I have had the Magpul ASAP in the past, and it's a well-designed and well made part. Having said that, the moving loop on it did cause me to swap it out for the SLAP. I didn't do it because of "uber-tactical sound signature reduction"; i just don't like excess noise to the point that i don't ever carry change in my pocket.

The SLAP is a little rougher made and it helps to hit some of the square edges with a needle file just to round them out. Otherwise it's light, and does everything i need it to do.

[Guns-up.50]

I have to disagree. A standard CH will work on a build if his ambi one breaks and it's better than nothing in a pinch. You don't need a "stock" rifle to be able to put parts onto it. Most things that are going to break will be able to be replaced easily still...Or even if his ambi mag release break, just put in a normal one. He doesn't have to replace it with the same part. It will work in a pinch as well.

I like the build you have laid out so far. For a good ambi flashlight, put an X300 on the top of the rail out at the end. Then put a FIXED DD front sight on it. No need for Magpul Flips. The DD isn't too expensive either. Worth it IMO and might as well put a fixed DD or Troy rear too. If you do lower 1/3 cowitness on the Aimpoint they will not be in the way, I promise.

There are more ways to go ambi such as a mag release and what not but I don't know much about them as I am a righty.

I will add that most lefties I know just train with a standard rifle and make it work for them. Then, if you get stuck with another rifle, it's not that much different.

Chad I must agree with you,

Op I have said it before and I'll say it again as a lefty, ambi parts seems more of a market searching for a buyer rather than a buyer searching for a market.
+1 on the DD sights(steel, fixed and about 120 for the set.)Troy close 2nd$$
+1 X-300 best light for carbine "ambi"
There is little to no extra effort to work the gun as a lefty. As far a VFGs I had a tango down stubby for a hot sec, I liked it just wasn't my thing, I would recommend this, not to long but enough to use a reference point. As far a "gangster grip" I'm not sure what you really mean?

[Moose-Knuckle]

First post, welcome aboard. Now sit at the feet of the master and prepare to be schooled.

Larry Vickers (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=106805) on ambidextrous controls for the AR.

[justin_247]

For any theoretical SHTF situation, you should train for what can be commonly found.

Larry Vickers shoots left-handed, and the standard AR works great for him.

Instead of getting all this crazy stuff, get an AR from a respected brand and then spend that extra money on ammo or training.

[chadil1ac]

Chad I must agree with you,

Op I have said it before and I'll say it again as a lefty, ambi parts seems more of a market searching for a buyer rather than a buyer searching for a market.
+1 on the DD sights(steel, fixed and about 120 for the set.)Troy close 2nd$$
+1 X-300 best light for carbine "ambi"
There is little to no extra effort to work the gun as a lefty. As far a VFGs I had a tango down stubby for a hot sec, I liked it just wasn't my thing, I would recommend this, not to long but enough to use a reference point. As far a "gangster grip" I'm not sure what you really mean?

Exactly. And when I say the lefties I know that shoot an AR, I basically just meant you...haha.

[GrumpyM4]

I bought a Knights SR15E3 complete lower at the end of last year......

By Febuary of this year I had sold it with less then 100 rounds through it.

I reached ambi-overload real quick and went to a Noveske FFL Gen 2 lower and am much happier.

I also train for caveman simple (to use an over-used phrase) weapons manipulation and all the extra crap was just too much.

[TehLlama]

An X300 in front of a DD Fixed Front is phenomenal, and also happens to be great for ambi use. I use it for the former, the latter is just nice.
I have those carbines with KAC IWS lowers, but the only ambi parts I have a use for are the selector (again, the BADev solutionis a slightly nicer selector in general AND comes with the nice hybrid ambi side), and as long as your kit doesn't induce random mag releases, the NORGON ambi catch works quite well. Still...

I too have drifted from my beloved IWS lowers - put them on my wife's rifle, which she loves, and now I just run Noveske Gen2FFL's myself. Standard G&R LPK's, and GSSA triggers, since the KAC NM spoiled me on quality units.

It does take only a minimal amount of effort to work the controls southpaw, and since I also run 1911's in a very close to JMB format, stuff like selector switches and releases come easily, so my lowers don't have those parts.

[muddywings]

Not to be rude, but if I were to build a "end of the world" rifle I would want one with a massive amount of commonly found parts. All of the ambi stuff can be overcome with practice shooting a standard rifle. Buying a good (LMT,DD,BCM,Colt etc) rifle and using the money saved by skipping the "sexy" stuff on ammo and training will put you ahead in the long run.

I see your point. Likewise I think for the purposes of internet humor I may have overstated by SHTF concerns. While I won't discount the the possibility happening in my lifetime, it's not incredibly high on my priority list either. (for those who do have it higher....nothing wrong with that).
I guess I just don't see a need to find parts to repair a rifle in a SHTF scenario. I would first go to my secondary (Mr. Mossberg) then probably just go out and find something else if my primary broke down. Sure there is the "well, if you only trained with an Ambi tricked out weapon, you won't know how to manipulate a regular stock model." Sure, and while there is a 50/50 chance I would come across another AR, there is a 50/50 chance that I could come across an AK, or a bolt action hunting rifle, or ruger .22lr, or a semi-auto shotgun, or a crossbow or a slingshot. So if I can't roll from my primary ambi AR to a stock version then I should probably work on my mental game before I worked on my firearm fundamentals.
And nothing "rude" about it. Just a difference in opinion...thanks for the thoughts!

[muddywings]

I second this. Shtf guns should be as bone stock as possible. Nothing you talked about adding will increase accuracy from a stock setup, so it will be the plinker your wife wants, too.

I'd go (of course) for the most reliable, stock model I could find (colt, etc). This way when the "zombies" are coming, if you break something on your rifle, a replacement part can easilly be found for it.

Spend all that extra money you were going to spent on weird parts on ammo. Lots of it. You can't kill "zombies" by throwing charging handles and flip up magpul sights at them.

I agree, the fancy stuff is pricey and there is a point of diminishing return. I have, in other hobbies started out "stock" only to end up tripling my downpayment in the long run. I am personally a go uber cheap and disposable or uber high end for the long run type. For me, this type of purchase, uber cheap and home defense just don't together.
As wife factor that you and other mentioned, some additional background as it seems some of you guys may not be married, are married but the wife doesn't shoot, the wife shoots but she's not a lefty while you are a righty or for the 1% out there who are in the same boat as me, well, I'll just concede all points now
But here it is:
Me: "Babe, I'm bored and need a new project and hobby. I'm thinking about getting a nice AR, what do you think."
Wife: "Well, you know money is tight until I finished school and get back into the workforce, so I think we should wait."
Me: "Hey, check out this fully Ambi AR lower. It would be great for you as a lefty."
Wife: "Wow, that's really cool. That would be fun."
Me: "Well, I'll make it a 6 month project and just slowly build it up."
Wife: "Cool that would be fun."
Life lesson: Happy Wife, Happy Life

[muddywings]

I have had the Magpul ASAP in the past, and it's a well-designed and well made part. Having said that, the moving loop on it did cause me to swap it out for the SLAP. I didn't do it because of "uber-tactical sound signature reduction"; i just don't like excess noise to the point that i don't ever carry change in my pocket.

The SLAP is a little rougher made and it helps to hit some of the square edges with a needle file just to round them out. Otherwise it's light, and does everything i need it to do.

Thanks, that little loopy thing looks odd too. I'm not super ninja but "loose" items bug me. I can't even have a loose strap on a backpack when out for a hike. Will probably go with the SLAP.

[muddywings]

First post, welcome aboard. Now sit at the feet of the master and prepare to be schooled.

Larry Vickers (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=106805) on ambidextrous controls for the AR.

Ahh yes...schooled I am. Actually I read this during my research because I used the search function and typed the word "ambidextrous."
First off, the guy seems like he is The Man. He probably lives on a range, sleeps on a range, eats on a range, poops on a range, and... works on a range. I would hazard a crazy guess that 75% of the rifles he sees are ARs and 90% aren't ambi so it probably behooves him as someone in his line of work to shoot stock. Me as someone who is sharing a single rifle with a lefty....slightly different philosophy.
I guess I'll quote (copy/paste) a few items where I guess he agrees:

See my earlier comments then read:

"I use all standard controls - this is so I can pick up any AR and run it; not just a tricked out ambi one

LAV"

"I am right handed and left eye dominate- I shoot long guns primary lefty and pistols primarily righty

The AR is not a difficult weapon to manipulate left handed - it is not ideal but it is very manageable

Pick which one you want and roll with it!!

Be safe

LAV"

Of course you can use the same quote for your point but let me insert for emphasis: "...it is not ideal..." and one more word: wife! When it's "not ideal" some 'people' get frustrated. Frustrated is not good. Not good is bad. Bad means we go home early with eery silence in the car ride home.

Know your enemy and know yourself and you shall always be victorious.
Sun Tzu

[muddywings]

I bought a Knights SR15E3 complete lower at the end of last year......

By Febuary of this year I had sold it with less then 100 rounds through it.

I reached ambi-overload real quick and went to a Noveske FFL Gen 2 lower and am much happier.

I also train for caveman simple (to use an over-used phrase) weapons manipulation and all the extra crap was just too much.

I see your point and I am a KISS guy at heart. Principle...but the band rocks too. I think I would initially like the BAD lever but then find it odd. I am hoping this design is more intuitive per the posts I read on the tread: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=71915&highlight=ax556
but time will tell and I could be wrong.

Thanks!

[muddywings]

An X300 in front of a DD Fixed Front is phenomenal, and also happens to be great for ambi use. I use it for the former, the latter is just nice.
I have those carbines with KAC IWS lowers, but the only ambi parts I have a use for are the selector (again, the BADev solutionis a slightly nicer selector in general AND comes with the nice hybrid ambi side), and as long as your kit doesn't induce random mag releases, the NORGON ambi catch works quite well. Still...

I too have drifted from my beloved IWS lowers - put them on my wife's rifle, which she loves, and now I just run Noveske Gen2FFL's myself. Standard G&R LPK's, and GSSA triggers, since the KAC NM spoiled me on quality units.

It does take only a minimal amount of effort to work the controls southpaw, and since I also run 1911's in a very close to JMB format, stuff like selector switches and releases come easily, so my lowers don't have those parts.

I was actually looking at that X300 but still in the early stages of research there. So thanks! I'll dig deeper in that direction.

I'm not to familiar with the IWS lowers as I gravitated to the AXTS system early and hard and I'm a noob. If I'm reading that right, the fact that your wife likes them is in a sick twisted way confirmation of what I am looking for.

[rob_s]

What you have listed in the OP is a list of nice parts that will be a complete waste of money. You can't get exactly what you want until you have some idea of what you need.

[MistWolf]

Muddywings, your enthusiasm and working with the wife is commendable but is over riding your practical sense.

The ATX lower is well made and very cool, but it is also $429. For that price, you could almost buy two complete lowers from Palmetto State Armory that are also well made, and for a few bucks more, outfit one with an ambi safety and left handed mag release. Or, you could buy a complete PSA rifle kit and PSA stripped lower for under $800 and add some ambi controls and save even more money.

However, before adding any kind of ambi controls, get a basic carbine and shoot it to find out what's needed for your wife to shoot comfortably.

"Honey, the basic AR is can easily be operated by lefties but each shooter has their preference as to what controls need to be ambidextrous. Experienced shooters think it would be best to save $300 or more by buying a basic carbine and shooting it to find out exactly what's needed to configure it to your shooting style."

To those who worry about finding spare parts for your firearms after the collapse- If you don't have them before, it's too late

[TehLlama]

I was actually looking at that X300 but still in the early stages of research there. So thanks! I'll dig deeper in that direction.

I'm not to familiar with the IWS lowers as I gravitated to the AXTS system early and hard and I'm a noob. If I'm reading that right, the fact that your wife likes them is in a sick twisted way confirmation of what I am looking for.

The rifle I spoke was my wife's, and even though she shoots ambi extremely well (can skunk almost all my former colleagues on a Table III shoot from either side), the only one of those parts I'd go with out of the box would be the X300.

An ambi selector or mag release can be added down the road quite affordably - start with something like a blemished BCM lower and you'll be cost ahead with a quality unit, and you're not ever trying to justify spending money on GI spec parts.

I'm among the oddballs that the charging handle is easier for me to work from my left shoulder unless I have a large magnified optic in the way, so that's another part not worth goofing with until you've established a need for that.

If you are looking at going IWS, I'd also look into the MEGA ambi setup - it would need a Norgon mag catch and BAD ambi selector to match it feature for feature, but IMO the KAC lower only made sense in the context that it comes cheap with an SR-15 upper. If I choose to sell that thing from my wife's rifle, it'll have a plain forged lower with just the selector and mag catch.

[Clem]

If you are looking at going IWS, I'd also look into the MEGA ambi setup - it would need a Norgon mag catch and BAD ambi selector to match it feature for feature, but IMO the KAC lower only made sense in the context that it comes cheap with an SR-15 upper. If I choose to sell that thing from my wife's rifle, it'll have a plain forged lower with just the selector and mag catch.

You described my last lower exactly.
I went with the MEGA ambi setup and I ended up spending more than just getting a KAC lower. Still kicking myself.
:suicide2:
http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o591/clemm4/Mega5mod.jpg

[Moose-Knuckle]

He probably lives on a range, sleeps on a range, eats on a range, poops on a range, and... works on a range.

Well the above can be said about most "instructors" these days from Gabe Suarez to Clint Smith. To put Larry Vickers in that box is like comparing a Chevy Camero to a Bugatti Veyron.

Here (http://vickerstactical.com/about-larry-vickers-2/about-larry-vickers/) is a glimpse into MSG Vickers SOF career.

Rereading your posts and responses to members here, it appears that you are appeasing your wife (who is a southpaw) and looking for a hobby gun. So IMHO a Colt, DD, BCM, LaRue, Noveske, LMT, or KAC would be overkill for your needs. Instead why don't you get her a Stag or RRA that is made for left hand shooters and be done with it?

[muddywings]

Well the above can be said about most "instructors" these days from Gabe Suarez to Clint Smith. To put Larry Vickers in that box is like comparing a Chevy Camero to a Bugatti Veyron.

Here (http://vickerstactical.com/about-larry-vickers-2/about-larry-vickers/) is a glimpse into MSG Vickers SOF career.

Rereading your posts and responses to members here, it appears that you are appeasing your wife (who is a southpaw) and looking for a hobby gun. So IMHO a Colt, DD, BCM, LaRue, Noveske, LMT, or KAC would be overkill for your needs. Instead why don't you get her a Stag or RRA that is made for left hand shooters and be done with it?

Wow...a Bugattie Veyron is a sweeet car! Had to google it!
Anyways, yes I obviously oversimplified my point about Vickers. From what I have seen from his products and his posts, nothing but top notch. My point was more intended to be his needs to shoot a standard whether as an instructor or someone in a unit is probably a different than a husband wife combo wanting something for home defense, going out to the range and the remote SHTF event.

As for the lefty Stag-outstanding advice. I actually looked heavily into for quite some time and to be honest it could be in the future but in the end, a higher end/costly lower and a single upper will probably be cheaper that two dedicated guns. I could see a second rifle with some fun little .22lr conversion bolt sand dueling trees and that would be fun.
Oh BTW "compromising" sounds less 'whipped' than appeasing...lol.

I guess most people here just don't like the lower as they haven't mentioned anything bad about the upper, the LPK, or the SLAP (a whopping $20) received fair/mixed review. I mean, I know it's pricey but it's not that far out of the ballpark. Hell, the rear tire on my mountain bike costs more that that lower.

The light suggestions are appreciated. Wish there were more thoughts on the matter.

I just follow Vicker's generalistic advice:

"Pick which one you want and roll with it!!

Be safe

LAV"

[NoveskeFan]

I have an AX556 on order. Heard nothing but good things...except the price. While I plan on putting it through its paces, I wouldn't want it as my only lower. I have three standard lowers at the moment. Ask yourself how much this one rifle is gonna cost. Two "stock" rifles really are not much more than what this one is adding up to.

[Jellybean]

Muddywings, your enthusiasm and working with the wife is commendable but is over riding your practical sense.

The ATX lower is well made and very cool, but it is also $429. For that price, you could almost buy two complete lowers from Palmetto State Armory that are also well made, and for a few bucks more, outfit one with an ambi safety and left handed mag release. Or, you could buy a complete PSA rifle kit and PSA stripped lower for under $800 and add some ambi controls and save even more money.

However, before adding any kind of ambi controls, get a basic carbine and shoot it to find out what's needed for your wife to shoot comfortably.

"Honey, the basic AR is can easily be operated by lefties but each shooter has their preference as to what controls need to be ambidextrous. Experienced shooters think it would be best to save $300 or more by buying a basic carbine and shooting it to find out exactly what's needed to configure it to your shooting style."

To those who worry about finding spare parts for your firearms after the collapse- If you don't have them before, it's too late

This.

After reading the (OP's) first post the first thing that popped into my head was, 'so why not just build two rifles and tweak one for her later'. All your non-control parts related problems would be solved instantly.
I'm going to make some huge assumptions based on your first post, so don't think I'm being a jerk-

Do you own an AR yet?
Have you ever assembled an AR from parts? (not that it's hard, just something to think about as, imho you're now dealing with many difrerent sources instead of one, which can sometimes be a PITA if problems arise)
Has your wife shot an AR yet -more than one or two times at a rental range or such- in other words enough to know what she needs the rifle to do for her?
Also, why only one 'shared' rifle? If this is an integral part of your "oh crap- zombies (:p)" plan having only one rifle between you sounds....well, bad.
I think you could still justify a two rifle budget to the wife- use the "two for almost the same price as one" argument, and the fact that she may be more interested if you make one of them "HER" personal rifle that she is going to have a major say in how it's put together "special, just for you honey, cuz I love you this much...." and all that. :D
If you're not hell-bent on an upper configured like you posted (obviously I don't know your preferences), you could also save some more money there as well with a more standardized upper. A standard 16" mid (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16%20bfh.htm) with MOE handguards would be hard to beat, and there's plenty of great rail systems that could be added later if you want them.
And of course there's always the oft-recommended Colt 6920 to consider.

Anyway, now that I've rehearsed the entire thread so far....

[rob_s]

In re-reading this this is a training (lack of) and a programming (bad) issue.

My brother is left-handed and I grew up watching people make silly accommodations for it as if he was a paraplegic. As much as I rag on "satan handers" it's not a friggin' disability, and they don't see it that way either (unless it's been projected on to them, as with my grandfather who grew up getting his knuckles rapped if he wrote with his left hand and who never could write legibly with either hand as a result). If you hand a lefty an object, any object, and explain to them how the OBJECT WORKS they will figure it out for themselves. If you hand a left-handed woman a rifle and start telling her how she's all ****ed up and how the gun isn't made for her, you've lost right out of the gate. But it's you that's ****ed up, not the gun, and not her.

I used to bring out a lefty to teach shooting from the left shoulder. Why? Because I wanted him not to teach how he normally operates the gun. We didn't frame it as some complicated thing requiring the Monster Garage team to solve a made-up problem, he simply showed how he works the gun. How he manipulates the safety, how he changes the magazines, how he charges the gun, etc. Really simple.

and even if it IS a disability, they will still figure it out for themselves. I once new a guy that was a Thalidomide kid. That guy would AMAZE you at what he could do and accomplish. Why? Because he was a guy with essentially no arms living in a world of people with arms. He wasn't going to ask the whole world to stop acting like they had arms, he just made do.

I have a theory that every "ambi" AR product was invented by a moron righty trying to make the gun work the same way from both sides. Why do that? Why not just be like a lefty and rather than MAKE do, just DO?

If the wife of the OP is already too far gone to save, it's the fault of the OP and not the fault of the gun.

I also used to sell guns, and gun crap, and if I had a dollar for every guy that came in looking to solve some problem of his wife's with gear I'd have been a rich guy. I always just told them to bring in the wife and stop trying to solve problems that don't exist. If you want to buy a bunch of new hotness, have at it, but don't use the wife as an excuse, just go buy your silly new hotness and own it.

[militarymoron]

and even if it IS a disability, they will still figure it out for themselves.

after owning and shooting right-handed ARs since about 1986, i've figured out that ambi is definitely more efficient for me as a lefty. the more weapons that offer ambi controls, the better IMHO. it makes more sense to me to have a weapons controls manipulated the same way from both sides when possible, rather than having different techniques when you switch back and forth.
same thing with those scissors with those handles molded for righties. i can make them work, but they'll never be as comfortable to use as a symmetrical pair.
i always tell new lefty shooters to first learn to manipulate their rifles without ambi controls, then swap them out if they feel the need to. some do, some don't.
for a lefty like me, ambi controls work great. i'm glad to see the industry finally start to move in this direction, and i hope that one day, ambi will be the standard on all ARs.

[rob_s]

ambi controls work great. i'm glad to see the industry finally start to move in this direction, and i hope that one day, ambi will be the standard on all ARs.

You are the first lefty I've heard say that.

[militarymoron]

i think that one of the reasons that some other lefties don't speak up is because they keep getting told that they have a 'software' problem, and that the issue is with them and their lack of experience, training etc. while i agree that that is often the case, it's not always the case.

i look at it from a pretty simple, personal perspective. i'm a lefty. the AR was designed with righty controls. i learned to shoot it that way because i knew no other way. but, as an engineer, i always thought to myself 'it'd be nice to have ambi controls', because while i was 'doing', it was actually 'making do'. i only realized this when i started taking training classes, and everyone was held to the same time standards.
the target doesn't know if you're a lefty or righty, or what weapon you're using, it only knows that it has been hit, and when. so, if the general standard of how well a person can shoot is speed and accuracy, that's what matters most, ultimately.

changing out a magazine as a lefty is very simple, yes. all you do is move your support hand back, press the magazine button, drop the mag then reload. or, grab your reload, press the magazine button, insert new mag. but it always adds that extra step that a righty never has to do - a righty can drop the mag while simultaneously grabbing the reload. if you look at efficiency/economy of movement, a lefty using a right handed rifle will never be as efficient, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL. while i might be able to train myself to change mags faster than some other righties, i will never be able to change them faster than if i have an ambi mag release, simply because of the additional step involved. to me, that's a hardware issue, not a software issue. kind of like a lefty using a right-handed holster vs. a left-handed holster.

i view ambi controls like any other part on the rifle that can be changed - people customize their rifles to suit their needs. many lefties are perfectly happy shooting righty guns, and have their own legitimate reasons for not wanting ambi controls. that's fine; that's their choice. i set up my rifles the way i set up my gear - whatever works best for me. to me, an ambi rifle simplifies the process - you manipulate it the same way from both sides (for the most part). well made ambi parts are no less fragile than well made standard parts. and installing ambi parts on your standard lower doesn't preclude you from swapping them out with standard parts should something break. i'm not sure why people bring that up as a concern. if your ambi charging handle breaks - it's no different than a standard one breaking. it takes the same amount of time to swap out. same thing with a safety and mag release. if you buy a non-standard lower like the KAC SR-15 E3, AX556 or any other ambi lower, then yes, that's definitely a consideration.

i'm not worried about picking up a standard rifle and suddenly forgetting how to manipulate it. i'll just be less efficient at it than with my own, and i accept that.

[Salamander]

I've been a right handed shooter for most of my life just because thats the way most guns are built, but I'm pretty thoroughly ambidextrous and doing anything lefty is very easy for me after a little basic practice.

That's become useful in the past few months because a shoulder injury has forced me to shoot lefty for a while.

Thus far I'm not having any difficulty using a (mostly BCM) standard setup. I'm in the process of building a second lower though, and have really tried to think it through in the context of making it as easy as possible to shoot from either side in the future. Of course I've been reading these sorts of threads with interest during this process.

After careful consideration I've decided to stay with a mostly standard setup, with the one exception of an ambi safety.

The other stuff just makes life more complicated, and I really prefer to keep things as simple as possible. Less to remember, less to break, fewer specialized parts to order.

[Moose-Knuckle]

I'm a lefty but since I'm right eye domintant I shoot right handed, I train to shoot from both sides in case I ever sustain an injury to one or the other.

I think this is why all the "next gen" carbines come ambi or at least the option to switch (SCAR, ACR, ARX-160, 805 BREN, FX-05, et al.).

[RustedAce]

i'm not worried about picking up a standard rifle and suddenly forgetting how to manipulate it. i'll just be less efficient at it than with my own, and i accept that.

I dont think its that you will be less efficient, the standard rifles are just less efficient.

Having controls on both sides makes sense even if you are a righty just because you might have to end up switching hands etc etc.



I own all ambi rifles at home, at work issue rifles are standard. I have no problem switching back and forth.

[Arctic1]

I cannot comment on the parts the OP wants for his gun, but a few observations on the issue of left handed shooter using a weapon configured for right handers.

First of all, I have to agree with what militarymoron posted. I am a right hander myself, but I have trained several left handed/left eye dominant people and cross-dominant people over the years. Every fresh batch of soldiers contains a few.

I was more proficient with teaching left handers to adapt to the G3, but the principle is the same.

All of the shooters I have trained have had to make an adjustement, be it canting a weapon to reach a safety, changing grips to reach the safety, flip the safety with a different finger, adding an extra motion to reach the charging handle and so on. They all wished that they did not have to.

Having a weapon with ambi controls would mean that left handed and right handed shooters can follow the same manual of arms, without having to adapt the techniques being taught. I cannot really see why that is a detrimental feature.

Now, the rifles we use are issued, so we cannot add ambi-controls and our guys have to make do. Only ambi control on our rifle is the safety selector switch.

Also, it is a bit odd that the OP is being told that he has training or programming issues, or that he is choosing a particular build for the wrong reasons, when it is quite clear from his post that ambi is the setup he wants. I think he was seeking advice on ambi-parts, not wether or not an ambi setup is better than a stock carbine. I understand the whole issue with boards, and putting your head on the block running the risk of getting it chopped off, but I don't see the point in constructing an argument where there is none.

[muddywings]

Also, it is a bit odd that the OP is being told that he has training or programming issues, or that he is choosing a particular build for the wrong reasons, when it is quite clear from his post that ambi is the setup he wants. I think he was seeking advice on ambi-parts, not wether or not an ambi setup is better than a stock carbine. I understand the whole issue with boards, and putting your head on the block running the risk of getting it chopped off, but I don't see the point in constructing an argument where there is none.

Holy crap, thank you. Beers on me!

I have found that forum boards generate the most opinionated people. 5 years ago I bought a $300 fully adjustable, on the fly seat post for my mt bike. I got flamed for wasting my money for a gimmick product that could be solved with a $30 seat post quick release clamp or spending more time on the bike developing my skills. I eventually walked away from the argument and just rode my bike. 5 years later, practically everybody who is riding a 4+ travel mt bike in "all mountain" style riding is sporting one of the 15+ fully adjustable seat-posts on the market now. (Damm...I'm just a trendsetter).

Really, the title of the tread was "Ambi Overdose." I was asking how I could continue to make the build more ambi, not why I'm wrong.

When my wife trains with with Mr. Mossberg as a lefty there are issues she has to overcome with pulling rounds from the receiver side saddle for either combat or tac reloads. She deals with it. It is what it is. But if it doesn't have to be, then more power to the consumer.

Time to go ride....

[C.Edwards]

I agree, the fancy stuff is pricey and there is a point of diminishing return. I have, in other hobbies started out "stock" only to end up tripling my downpayment in the long run. I am personally a go uber cheap and disposable or uber high end for the long run type. For me, this type of purchase, uber cheap and home defense just don't together.
As wife factor that you and other mentioned, some additional background as it seems some of you guys may not be married, are married but the wife doesn't shoot, the wife shoots but she's not a lefty while you are a righty or for the 1% out there who are in the same boat as me, well, I'll just concede all points now
But here it is:
Me: "Babe, I'm bored and need a new project and hobby. I'm thinking about getting a nice AR, what do you think."
Wife: "Well, you know money is tight until I finished school and get back into the workforce, so I think we should wait."
Me: "Hey, check out this fully Ambi AR lower. It would be great for you as a lefty."
Wife: "Wow, that's really cool. That would be fun."
Me: "Well, I'll make it a 6 month project and just slowly build it up."
Wife: "Cool that would be fun."
Life lesson: Happy Wife, Happy Life

That's what I did - I brought it in one piece at at time :secret: Took longer but got it exactly like I want it for now. I don't think I could have bought the same quality gun for less than I spent to build + it was very educational.

I am also left eye dominant but right handed and shoot long guns lefty. Not a big deal on the safety, but an ambi mag release would be nice. YMMV

[NoveskeFan]

Also, it is a bit odd that the OP is being told that he has training or programming issues, or that he is choosing a particular build for the wrong reasons, when it is quite clear from his post that ambi is the setup he wants. I think he was seeking advice on ambi-parts, not wether or not an ambi setup is better than a stock carbine. I understand the whole issue with boards, and putting your head on the block running the risk of getting it chopped off, but I don't see the point in constructing an argument where there is none.



...
I do have a few opinion questions I would like to throw out there for those more experienced and I’m still at the point where I can change my mind if someone can throw out a better idea.
...
As a prepper novice I’m going after the general, all around, good home defense/SHTF gun.

Ok with that out of the way my build plan, and what this query is about, is based on the most fully ambi AR-15 I can design. The issue is my wife shoots southpaw and I’m a normal person. Actually, my wife is a righty but is left eyed dominate-so even more dorked up (let’s just keep that between ourselves here…right friends?).
...
The above I’m pretty happy with but again, feel free to change my mind (my wife does it to me all the time).
...
Major questions:
Any other ambi options out there?
Anything I should change on the plan?
Light options?
So there is the reason and the build plan. Comments from the gallery are appreciated and welcome.

Seems the OP is indeed interested in an Ambi setup, but also left the field open for suggestions. He has received just what he asked for. I think that for many on this board, "the general, all around, good home defense/SHTF gun" is the simplest one.

[Cameron]

In reality you only have a 50/50 chance of staying married to your wife, and some probably that is not even worth mentioning, of been involved in any end of the world fantasy. So just buy a standard AR and spend the money saved on the girls at your local titty bar.

Cameron

[Jack-O]

OP,
if you want really good, almost ideal ambi, then get an XCR or an FS2000. otherwise the ambi thing on an AR is just not a big deal with about 4 hours of training for most people. It's really about that simple.

the mental hurdle you need to overcome is that things need to be "mirrored" to be Ambi, and that just aint true. your left mirroring your right aint what ambi is. Ambi is being competent with your left as well as your right and thats quite simply only gotten thru practice. the manipulations are not, nor do they need to be the same with each hand.

Heed the advice given on a build thus far. For a prepper rifle, about the WORST thing you could do is "build" a rifle. Just go get a Colt and pay $1000 and have a rifle that is well built and affordable and reliable then spend the rest of the money on training and ammo.

Yaaay!! another opinionated jerk telling you why your ideas suck :P:rolleyes:

[muddywings]

Seems the OP is indeed interested in an Ambi setup, but also left the field open for suggestions. He has received just what he asked for. I think that for many on this board, "the general, all around, good home defense/SHTF gun" is the simplest one.

Excellent post and I concede the point. Got what I asked for! I guess the claws dug in when I got a KISS principle opinions backed by, in my opinion, poor logic. Such as I won't be able to repair my ambi lower or I won't know how to run a stock AR in a SHTF scenario. Those caused me to roll my eyes and as I said, dug in deeper.

[muddywings]

In reality you only have a 50/50 chance of staying married to your wife, and some probably that is not even worth mentioning, of been involved in any end of the world fantasy. So just buy a standard AR and spend the money saved on the girls at your local titty bar.

Cameron

By far the best logic, the most reasonable, and the most outstanding reply yet. I will have to ponder...

[Todd00000]

Ahh yes...schooled I am. Actually I read this during my research because I used the search function and typed the word "ambidextrous."
First off, the guy seems like he is The Man. He probably lives on a range, sleeps on a range, eats on a range, poops on a range, and... works on a range. I would hazard a crazy guess that 75% of the rifles he sees are ARs and 90% aren't ambi so it probably behooves him as someone in his line of work to shoot stock. Me as someone who is sharing a single rifle with a lefty....slightly different philosophy.
I guess I'll quote (copy/paste) a few items where I guess he agrees:

See my earlier comments then read:

"I use all standard controls - this is so I can pick up any AR and run it; not just a tricked out ambi one

LAV"

"I am right handed and left eye dominate- I shoot long guns primary lefty and pistols primarily righty

The AR is not a difficult weapon to manipulate left handed - it is not ideal but it is very manageable

Pick which one you want and roll with it!!

Be safe

LAV"

Of course you can use the same quote for your point but let me insert for emphasis: "...it is not ideal..." and one more word: wife! When it's "not ideal" some 'people' get frustrated. Frustrated is not good. Not good is bad. Bad means we go home early with eery silence in the car ride home.

Know your enemy and know yourself and you shall always be victorious.
Sun Tzu

You started your post as a SHTF rifle, then changed that context, so what are you really asking?

[Arctic1]

Seems the OP is indeed interested in an Ambi setup, but also left the field open for suggestions. He has received just what he asked for. I think that for many on this board, "the general, all around, good home defense/SHTF gun" is the simplest one.

Well, I took this line as the defining purpose of the thread:


Ok with that out of the way my build plan, and what this query is about, is based on the most fully ambi AR-15 I can design.

I just found it odd that so many chose to critique his line of thinking, ie ambi-AR, rather than actually helping him with info to achieve his goal for a carbine build.

@Jack-O:

I was making an observation, I did not call people names.

And an ambi setup is actually that, mirrored controls that allow the same weapon manipulation no matter what shoulder/hand you are using. A right hand configured weapon can never be as efficient for a left handed shooter as a weapon that allows a left handed shooter to use it without any adapting of techniques.

You have to agree that a purpose built lefty lower is better than a right handed one for a left handed shooter?

And yes, you can work around the mechanical features of the gun with training, but a weapon that does not require a work around is better IMO.

[Proconsul]

Muddy,

I'm cross dominant (left eye, right hand), and so I end up shooting from both sides. I probably favor my left shoulder incrementally when shooting irons, and so that preference translates across the board.

Of all of the things you can add, I have found that the most helpful for left shoulder functionality is the Norgon ambi-catch. Unfortunately it's also the most expensive, which is why the vast majority of my rifles go without one. I just can't justify $90 multiplied by 30.

If I had only a couple of rifles though, I would have it installed in all of them. You simply cannot be as fast on a reload from the left shoulder without a left-side magazine release as you can be with one.

I understand the comments about keeping SHTF rifles as KISS as possible, but my counterpoint would be that in a SHTF situation, you want to be as efficient as possible. What's more likely, that your life will depend upon a faster reload, or that you won't be able to figure out how to use a right-handed rifle that you pick up?

It's why most people have optics on their SHTF rifles in addition to irons - the goal is to give yourself the advantages you need to stay alive and in the fight, not to use the most bare-bones weapon you can make. An ambi-catch adds to your fighting ability, and does very little to detract from it.

As for software/hardware, I don't see how adding an ambi-catch changes your view of the importance of training. Either you are, in which case the hardware improvement will help, or you aren't.

[MistWolf]

There is no reason why an AR can't simple and efficient. My point is that the ATX lower is expensive and a person should shoot their firearm so they can discover what changes will and will not work for them. As a right-handed shooter, there are changes I'd make to the AR so it can be operated more efficiently. It's awkward locking the bolt back when the magwell is empty, for one thing

[Moose-Knuckle]

I just found it odd that so many chose to critique his line of thinking, ie ambi-AR, rather than actually helping him with info to achieve his goal for a carbine build.

Then why bother to post on a public internet forum?

[Arctic1]

Then why bother to post on a public internet forum?

So people can give advice on what the OP actually asked, instead of saying he is wrong because what the poster wants doesn't correspond to the preferences of others.

I interpreted the OP that an ambi setup is what he wants. Yes, some of the wording in the OP was perhaps clumsy and invited some of the criticism about ambi-setups, a setup that the critics feel is not needed as many lefties just adapt to a stock carbine.

But to say that a need for an ambi setup is a software issue, or that he is doing it for the wrong reasons, is off the mark in my opinion.

On the other hand, the advice the MistWolf gave about perhaps choosing a different lower than what the OP suggested, or other advice in that vein is more relevant to the thread.

[Markasaurus]

Buy a stag left handed rifle. Problem solved.

[Airhasz]

OP, just have your wife flip the rifle upside/down...Jimmy Hendricks style...:suicide:

[Moose-Knuckle]

So people can give advice on what the OP actually asked, instead of saying he is wrong because what the poster wants doesn't correspond to the preferences of others.

I interpreted the OP that an ambi setup is what he wants. Yes, some of the wording in the OP was perhaps clumsy and invited some of the criticism about ambi-setups, a setup that the critics feel is not needed as many lefties just adapt to a stock carbine.

But to say that a need for an ambi setup is a software issue, or that he is doing it for the wrong reasons, is off the mark in my opinion.

On the other hand, the advice the MistWolf gave about perhaps choosing a different lower than what the OP suggested, or other advice in that vein is more relevant to the thread.

I'm a lefty and I added my $0.02, the advice is worth what he paid for it.

[TehLlama]

Muddy,

I'm cross dominant (left eye, right hand), and so I end up shooting from both sides. I probably favor my left shoulder incrementally when shooting irons, and so that preference translates across the board.

Of all of the things you can add, I have found that the most helpful for left shoulder functionality is the Norgon ambi-catch. Unfortunately it's also the most expensive, which is why the vast majority of my rifles go without one. I just can't justify $90 multiplied by 30.

If I had only a couple of rifles though, I would have it installed in all of them. You simply cannot be as fast on a reload from the left shoulder without a left-side magazine release as you can be with one.

I understand the comments about keeping SHTF rifles as KISS as possible, but my counterpoint would be that in a SHTF situation, you want to be as efficient as possible. What's more likely, that your life will depend upon a faster reload, or that you won't be able to figure out how to use a right-handed rifle that you pick up?

It's why most people have optics on their SHTF rifles in addition to irons - the goal is to give yourself the advantages you need to stay alive and in the fight, not to use the most bare-bones weapon you can make. An ambi-catch adds to your fighting ability, and does very little to detract from it.

As for software/hardware, I don't see how adding an ambi-catch changes your view of the importance of training. Either you are, in which case the hardware improvement will help, or you aren't.

With access to a few ladies with limited AR shooting experience earlier today (1 pure lefty, one cross dominant), I asked which lower felt best (among my stock LPK forged lower, forged lower with ambi selector and mag catch, and the KAC IWS lower) and the resounding response was 'sure'. It's a bit of an overmagnified difference, and while I don't find much fault in installing a couple parts that provide some marginal improvement (BAD-ASS selector is pretty nice, and the Norgon unit is adequately efficient), spending money on these parts BEFORE spending money on ammunition, training, magazines, and a good sling is placing the cart before the horse. Since you can modify an already working, trustworthy rifle to make it more efficient in that regard (and the ACR is about the only thing I've seen that's truly efficient about Type II stoppage clearances, and is otherwise replete with fail) I'd focus on building a good reliable rifle (light weight makes the biggest difference on a ladies carbine), and wisely select parts to make that fit a simple role (as simple as a red dot and flashlight, good sling and mags), then add those parts if a need arises.

[Duffy]

Our selector levers have a 90 degree "shelf" (instead of the angled, pyramid shaped surface), to help direct pressure straight up and down, but not pressing inward towards the receiver wall. Its CNC billet construction means we can, and have made the selector smoother to rotate, without losing its positive detent engagement.

The fully modular aspect, and multiple options of the BAD-A.S.S. and BAD-CASS means a user has options on one of the most important controls on a rifle / carbine.

Any one of these refinements brings incremental improvements to the operation of the safety selector, together, the effect can better be described by folks that just realized what they've been missing ;)

A 45 degree short throw selector has all of above mentioned characteristics, and some that are more than incremental: intuitive and decreased time in safety manipulation, friendly for shooters with small hands or shorter fingers, the ability to safe the weapon by a flick of a user's thumb, without any shifting of grip.

It can use the same lever on both sides, as the lever no longer points straight down when the selector is on FIRE, thus obviates the need for a different trigger finger side lever. With a short lever on both sides of the receiver, it's unfair advantage. I had wanted to call the short throw selector UA (unfair advantage), but we settled for a more mundane name which follows our naming convention :rolleyes: