S&W SD9: Worth it as a secondary/backup? [Archive]

HKBanger

07-08-12, 13:24

So I've been looking at the S&W SD9VE. I like the two toned one's and the price is certainly attractive. I've heard from some people that it's a Sigma with a new trigger which scares me, but others say it's not a plain ol' Sigma at all. I don't like the Sigma whatsoever because they were generally just junk guns with a junk trigger.

I read the posts on here about the gun but I haven't found anything too recent. Anyone put this one through it's paces yet? Classes? High volume shooting? I'm in particular wondering how the accuracy and reliability compares to the M&P9. The M&P9 accuracy issues are scaring me off a bit and I can pick up a brand new SD9 for $329 so that's really the main reason I'm considering it.

It's not going to be my go to or primary handgun by any stretch, that title goes to my USP or G19 for right now. I'm mainly looking for a reliable 9mm that's easy on the wallet and not overly large either. It should be something that will be fairly easy for anyone to shoot.

Also, I noticed that some models list night sights and others don't. I was under the impression that all models came standard with a front night sight but Bud's is selling the one with a front tritium for almost $450 (same price as M&P) compared to $329 without! :confused:

So, yeah. Normally, I know the M&P is the better answer but for this need/use, is the SD9 fitting? I want to hear opinions and experiences.

Tarheel

07-08-12, 21:38

My only direct experience with an SD is a rental. It's trigger feel was between the Sigma and M&P.

Here's what I've gleaned from following the S&W forums:

The new SD - SD9VE - differs from the SD in that the front sight is not a night sight, it's plastic, like the Sigma. Similarly for the slide, it's no longer melonite coated but stainless like the Sigma. Both are seen as cost cutting measures to get the price down to the Sigma neighborhood.

Some folks on the forum don't like the fact that the rear rails are not on the frame but instead part of the trigger housing. There's a thread on this topic at the forums.

Here's a thread discussing the differences - http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-sigma-sd-pistols/255223-sd9-compared-sd9ve.html

HTH

kmrtnsn

07-08-12, 23:58

You'd be better served by saving a bit more money and buying at a higher end of the spectrum. M&P, Glock, FN, are all better alternatives that won't break the bank. I'd take a Steyr or a Walther over the this pistol too.

Magic_Salad0892

07-09-12, 06:07

Why don't you buy ammo? Or a duplicate of your G19, or USP?

Is there a specific reason you need to adopt another pistol platform?

HKBanger

07-09-12, 09:18

Magsz

07-09-12, 11:30

I read a thread from a little while back on here that was nothing but praise for the SD9. What's changed?? :blink:

Nothing. People are just leery of a pistol that comes in at a budget price when there are better alternatives that will last a lifetime for 100 some odd dollars more.

100 dollars over the course of 50+ years of potential use is a drop in the bucket.

Having said that, i put my hands on one of the new SDVE pistols the other day and oddly enough, i REALLY liked the trigger. The real question is "why?". The M&P is a proven handgun for only a few dollars more.

jasonhgross

07-09-12, 11:46

So what is wrong with a glock or S&W J frame if you want to go smaller?

Omega Man

07-09-12, 17:15

Get a Caracal C. Centerfire systems has them for $400.

750.356

07-09-12, 17:59

Keep in mind that a lot of the SD9/ SW9VE/ Sigma hate you'll see on this forum is from people that have never owned one. It's one of those guns where the 'personal experience only' rule of this forum is pretty much ignored, and doesn't really apply.

I bought an SW9VE several years ago when they were being blown out for $275 after a mail-in rebate from S&W. I carry and shoot Glocks exclusively, and honestly had no interest in it, but I figured for under 3 C-notes, it could be an interesting experiment/ loaner gun.

I kept it for a couple years, and would run rounds through it occasionally and give it to newbs to shoot. It was never detail stripped, and got a brief run-down with a CLP-soaked paper towel a couple times. I had exactly 1,750 documented rounds of 115gr. CCI Blazer through it before 'selling' it to a friend in need (basically giving it to him). No stoppages or parts breakages.

Now, I know that's not a lot of rounds, and I know it's a sample size of one, but that gun ran fine. Yes, the trigger was ridiculous, (definitely north of 12lbs and creepy as ****), but it worked fine for the short time that I had it. The internals are an embarassingly bad Glock copy, so I don't see how the design could be that unsound.

I don't know if this helps or not, I just felt like I needed to inject some personal experience into the impending 'OMG SIGMA IS TEH SUCK' fest that we'll see here.

All that said, I probably wouldn't buy another one for $300 OTD, and would rather use the cash for 1) ammo, 2) saving up for another gun that's more shootable (Glock, M&P, etc.).

Magsz

07-09-12, 18:33

Get a Caracal C. Centerfire systems has them for $400.

One relatively unproven and new system for the next...One that is even closer in price to an M&P...seriously?

Omega Man

07-09-12, 20:22

One relatively unproven and new system for the next...One that is even closer in price to an M&P...seriously?

The Caracal is impressive enough to me to be an early adopter. The Caracal is a new platform in the U.S., but has been available in the UAE & Europe since 2007. The pistol has also passed rigorous NATO and German Federal Police trials. If the Caracal proves to stay reliable, they will replace my Glock's for serious use.

Ed L.

07-09-12, 21:24

For the original poster, HKBanger,

Since you already have a Glock 19 and HKUSP, I would not bother with the Smith SD9 as an extra just because it is cheap. I would wait and save my money until I had enough for something I wanted or put the money toward practice and/or classes.

Not to get too far off the suject (which I am doing), but I put 3000 rounds through a pair of Caracals with only 3 malfunctions (one attributable to a friend severely limpwristing, 2 attributable to a gun that needed cleaning at the 800-900 round mark). I wrote an article on them for SWAT Magazine that appeared in the June 2011 issue, and wound up buying the compact version to keep for myself. This was a compact test gun that had the quick see sights. I sent the gun to Amerigunusa.com to have them put a tritium dot in the place of the front sight.

A big minus to me is the sights fixed to the slide. Keep in mind the gun was designed for an issue gun to Gulf State armies, with consumer sales being an afterthought. So having a gun that can be fitted with aftermarket sights was not an issue.

cocojo

07-09-12, 21:51

First let me say I love Glocks until I bought the SD9. I have to say these are hidden gems. They work flawlessly and i prefer the extractor of the Smith over the Glock. My Glock 23 just went back to the factory for malfunctions. I liked the SD9 so much I just went out and bought one in 40. I too like the trigger it's a tad bit longer but smoother and it's about 7 to 8 lbs, where a defense trigger should be. I don't know about the VE model but if they haven't changed the gun other than melonite and steel sights and front night sight, then it should run like my SD's do. It feels much better in my hand than my Glocks and points very well. I have 1500 rounds through my sd9 without a hicup. Haven't shot the 40 yet maybe tomorrow. I'm a lefty and have no problems with these guns. They are so much like a Glock inside it's uncanny. Fabulous pistol and a hidden gem. Best part is I just paid $74.00 to FEDEX to ship my Glock back to GA. Smith will pay for shipping both ways and warranty their pistols as long as their in business. Win-Win to me and a great gun to boot.

Kain

07-10-12, 12:30

crusader377

07-10-12, 13:33

Have you looked at how much extra mags cost for it? I don't know about other's but even for my range guns I like having extra mags, not just because I don't like loading mags, but because if I only have one and it shits the bed then I have a single shot pistol. Anyway, if the mags are the same as the Sigma mags then they are running from $30-33 from my preferred gun sites, I tend to feel Glock mags at $23 are a little high, but ten dollars a more per mag difference adds up. I prefer to have at least half a dozen mags per pistol and at that rate, buying a used glock (Figure $400) and half a dozen extra mags and you are even picking the Smith SD and six extra mags. Something to consider.

I think this is a good point especially for more serious shooters which most members of this forum are. But you also have to remember that probably your average SD9 buyer is not a serious gun person and is looking for an inexpensive yet reliable pistol. In that niche, the SD9 is a great pistol for the low $300 range since it does also come with a front night sight. I would bet that your average SD9 buyer is likely to just use the magazines that came with the pistol or buy one additional magazine at most.

To the OP, even though the SD9 is a basic reliable pistol, why are you looking to add a third platform that is similar but less capable than your two current pistols (USP and G19)? Even though additional pistols are always cool, why not just save another few months and buy a second G19? Then you don't need to buy a new holster, magazines, etc... and you have a better and more familiar pistol as well.

cocojo

07-10-12, 20:09

Now hold on here, not a serious shooter or gun person. I like the SD Smith because I like the way it shoots, feels, size and I paid over $400.00 for this gun it's not a cheap gun. I owned three HK's and couldn't warm up to the triggers. I own at least five Glocks in all calibers, three Walthers a Sig and numerous snubbies just to name a few. I just shot a head to head today with my Glock 23 and my new SD40 and they shot dead even but the sd feels so much better and more confortable to me. I have owned guns over forty years worked for 30 years in LE work and was a firearms instructor since 1978 in almost every gun in LE circles. Including being an HKMP5 instructor. My goodness if a gun works and shoots very well and is reliable what more can you ask. I can tell you I paid lots of money, thousands on a guns that made you look cool but they malfunctioned constantly. Whats the old saying never judge a book by it's cover. I am impressed with the sd model but I can say I have not shot the ve version. Both my SD's are keepers.

Sry0fcr

07-11-12, 11:17

This thread needs more objectivity and less conjecture...

LINK (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=94491)

They are a good entry level pistol. Apex Tactical has a spring kit available that dramatically improves the trigger.

Hi all,

I think the SD offers a reliable very functional self defense pistol for the budget minded. It is a very under-rated pistol. The gun has good ergos, the sight cuts are the same as the M&P's, so you have a variety of sight options.

The only issue as far as I can tell is the quality of the trigger pull. Out of the box it reminded me of the old Star Trek tracer disc guns that I used to play with as a kid. I am sure that the triggers smooth out with use, and others over on the S&W forum indicate the same. Our spring kit lightens the pull to a manageable 6 lb pull, but the trigger travel is still somewhat long and the over-travel caused the sights to shift alignment once the striker was released.

The new trigger we are making is identical in shape to our FSS aluminum trigger, but dimensioned to work with the SD. It removes the excess over-travel and limits some of the pre-travel. The result is something like a short travel DAO trigger.

While I prefer the M&P, the SD really isn't a bad gun for the price.

While I agree that adding another platform to your mix probably isn't worthwhile, from first hand accounts I don't think the SD9 is a bad choice especially for the money. I don't think Apex would waste their time developing and retailing/distributing a trigger kit if it was a POS. Dare I say that it may be a better choice than rolling the dice on a Gen 4 19 these days?

Magsz

07-11-12, 12:59

This thread needs more objectivity and less conjecture...

LINK (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=94491)

While I agree that adding another platform to your mix probably isn't worthwhile, from first hand accounts I don't think the SD9 is a bad choice especially for the money. I don't think Apex would waste their time developing and retailing/distributing a trigger kit if it was a POS. Dare I say that it may be a better choice than rolling the dice on a Gen 4 19 these days?

Potentially. The problem that we run into is that in the name of objectivity, there is no real hard data on these.

I havent been able to find any range reports with valid accuracy testing or any high round count examples.

Do i doubt these pistols are accurate? Do i doubt that they will most likely hold up to large round counts? No, i do not but for ME, i cant justify the purchase.

For someone else looking to spend X amount of dollars and ONLY x amount of dollars then well, go for it as there are very few downsides to the pistol on paper.

Dienekes

07-12-12, 16:11

Excuse me, but my background, experience, and conclusions are similar to cocojo's. These days the only person I have to please is myself. My priorities are that a defensive handgun works every time and it shoots decently in my hands. I still like revolvers (!) which tells you how little I know.

About a year ago I bought a Sigma 9mm for the hell of it. Turned out that it did not particularly like the handloads that my BHP chews up; but it loves cheap factory ammo and the good factory stuff equally. And I shoot it pretty well, too. If it keeps this up it will amount to a Model 10 Smith with a 16 round capacity. Not too bad for a "cheap" POS. Just laid in another of those pathetic junk Sigmas.

When I was an ignorant kid with a DCM .45 and a box of corrosive-primed hardball I had no idea that a gun that worked well without fuss was something to be ashamed of. :confused:

G34

07-12-12, 16:31

When I was an ignorant kid with a DCM .45 and a box of corrosive-primed hardball I had no idea that a gun that worked well without fuss was something to be ashamed of. :confused:

Most people who care enough to waste their time (me included) posting about firearms online are probably only interested in weapons with enough refinement to be passable weapons for combat or competition which is why most would view something like that is junk. I've shot Hi-Points and while I would rate them as junk by my own standards I would also rate them a functional and reliable weapon. Anyways, what I am trying to say is that for some users a cheap handgun isn't junk and it seems you're among them and there's no problem with that because they may still be good reliable weapons.

C4IGrant

07-18-12, 15:04

FlatFender

07-18-12, 15:15

Beat Trash

07-18-12, 15:18

I am toying with stocking these SD9VE's and selling them for $280 + Shipping. I will even install the Apex Tactical Spring kit in them for $20 (making for a great trigger).

The question I have is, what is the user interest in a sub $300 dollar gun?? I don't know as I don't mess with lower end gun sales.

Thoughts?? Interest??

C4

I think the market exists for a gun such as this in the $280.00 price range. If you rented a couple of tables at a larger gun show,I'm sure that you'd sell a bunch of them.

The problem I see is that I would imagine that your on-line customer base would tend to be of the type that knows the level of performance and quality that they find acceptable for their needs. And they also know what fair market is for this level of quality and performance.

You may sell a few of the SD9VE's on line at this price. But I'd be willing to bet you'll sell 2-3 M&P's for each of the SD's you sell, even though the retail cost of the M&P is higher.

Maybe bring in a couple of the SD's and see how they work out for you? At this price point, I see them competing with the Ruger P series. How many customers do you have asking for a Ruger P95?

C4IGrant

07-18-12, 15:27

I think the market exists for a gun such as this in the $280.00 price range. If you rented a couple of tables at a larger gun show,I'm sure that you'd sell a bunch of them.

The problem I see is that I would imagine that your on-line customer base would tend to be of the type that knows the level of performance and quality that they find acceptable for their needs. And they also know what fair market is for this level of quality and performance.

You may sell a few of the SD9VE's on line at this price. But I'd be willing to bet you'll sell 2-3 M&P's for each of the SD's you sell, even though the retail cost of the M&P is higher.

Maybe bring in a couple of the SD's and see how they work out for you? At this price point, I see them competing with the Ruger P series. How many customers do you have asking for a Ruger P95?

Aroung here (in rural Ohio), most all local calls are for a Ruger P series gun or an XD. I advise them that I have M&P's for $430 and they pass. :blink:

C4

ruchik

07-18-12, 16:58

I'm not so sure there is much of a market for those. It's more of a niche. The M&P, for example, is so competitively priced that most people can be easily convinced to upgrade from an SD to an M&P.

*Edit: If you've got no problem selling something that works, why introduce another option into the mix? May as well just keep selling what people want. Unfortunately, that seems to be the XD's in your case:(

cocojo

07-19-12, 17:42

Whats the upgrade from the sd to the M&P? Changeable back straps! The grip on the sd is outstanding as is. I don't see a gain here. No night sight on M&P, I prefer the grooved plastic guide rod on the SD, no lubrication needed and the grooves get the sand off the rod. M&P has a steel rod which must be lubricated which picks up everything. That's one of the reasons Beretta's went to grooved plastic guide rods for the Iraq war in their 92's. Oh wait 6 lb trigger over a 7 to 8 lb trigger. The 8 lb trigger is smoother and I can't see any difference shooting either gun besides the day you need it the trigger could be 15 lbs and you won't even think about it or know you pulled the trigger. A 6 to 8 lb trigger is where a defense pistol should be anyway.
Plastic box that comes with the M&P gun. I got a nano vault and detachable light with my SD. So wheres the gain?

ruchik

07-19-12, 18:30

The SD is essentially a remake of the older Sigmas. Looks different, uses slightly different design, but essentially the same thing. The M&P was a fresh sheet, built from the ground up to be used by law enforcement and militaries, and is therefore a more robust design. For starters, IIRC the M&P uses a polymer frame reinforced with a steel chassis, the SD does not. The guide rod issue, IMO, is irrelevant. The M&P runs so well that it's a moot point. I'm not sure how much lube you're applying to your guide rods, but if it's picking up enough crap to induce malfunctions, I think you might be doing it wrong. There's a documented test floating out there with an M&P that ran for about 62,000 rounds, cracked the slide, was still capable of shooting, and then printed an average 1.8" group at 25 yards WITH the cracked slide.

I, and I know others as well, are somewhat confused by the SD. If one wants a truly bargain gun, then one should purchase the Sigma, lousy trigger be damned. If one wants a duty-ready, higher quality gun, one would purchase an M&P. It makes no sense to buy an in between pistol that doesn't give you the performance of an M&P and costs more than the bargain gun.

Just remember, the SD is still a bargain gun. That means there must be compromises somewhere, even if you can't readily tell what they are.

And I'm not sure what's so great about the nano vault and light...thing that's included in the kit. That kit looks like it goes for around $420 online. For $487 shipped at Buds online, you not only get the better quality, hard-charging M&P 9, but you also get three mags instead of two, a kydex mag pouch, a Bladetech kydex holster, ear plugs, AND an Uplula mag loader (which by itself is about $30 bucks). Here's the link (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/70011).

G34

07-19-12, 18:31

The 8 lb trigger is smoother and I can't see any difference shooting either gun besides the day you need it the trigger could be 15 lbs and you won't even think about it or know you pulled the trigger. A 6 to 8 lb trigger is where a defense pistol should be anyway.

Everybody's different and all that good stuff, but I feel like most people would disagree, including our most notable SME on M4C.

http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/trigger-pull-weight/

Striker

07-19-12, 21:57

I wasn't aware of the differences such as the slide, rail, frame, etc. Thanks for that information.

There's no reason in particular that I've been considering it, aside from the price and it's a S&W, not a Taurus or Hi-Point.

I'm mainly looking for a somewhat budget 9mm to have in the house as a secondary and/or range gun for family. I'm thinking I may be better served with a used Glock or perhaps spend another $100-$125 for an M&P.

I read a thread from a little while back on here that was nothing but praise for the SD9. What's changed?? :blink:

Ok, well; you already have an HK and a Glock. Which one is your primary? Whichever it is, why do you need a backup to your backup? If you just want one, that's fine; but why not make a choice between the HK and the Glock, give the one you don't choose to your family and get a second one identical to the one you did choose. Am I starting sound like DocGKR?

RogerinTPA

07-20-12, 09:39

Nope...I wouldn't even consider it.

oldtexan

07-20-12, 10:23

I, and I know others as well, are somewhat confused by the SD. If one wants a truly bargain gun, then one should purchase the Sigma, lousy trigger be damned. ......

Apparently buying a new production SIGMA soon will no longer be an option. They disappeared from S&W's website a few days ago. I take that to mean production of the SIGMA has ended, or that it will end very shortly. This makes sense in view of the fact that the SD9VE/SD40VE prices were only slightly higher than SIGMA prices. It appears that the SD9VE/SD40VE has replaced both the SD9/SD40 and the SIGMAs, at a price somewhere between the two.