Sig P229 elite enhanced [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

ghostrider1

07-09-12, 16:29

Ok folks, I am really really thinking about buying a p229 elite enhanced 9mm. I haven't shot it just yet but, have played with it a little at my LGS. It fits my hands like a glove and very comfortable. I can manipulate the controls with ease and the only issue I see would be, getting some extra mags. They are expenaive as she-it. Is this pistol worth buying and making it my ccw weapon?? Is there anything I should be worried about when buying one? I am gonna be coming from an hk p2000 .40 (if it sells).

plouffedaddy

07-09-12, 16:43

Microalign

07-09-12, 17:28

I've been regularly using Sigs since 1996, and have been an agency armorer for most of that time. I've seen, shot, and worked on a LOT of various Sig models over the years, and I do not feel that the cost of these pistols is worth the investiment. They were worth it 20yrs ago when pistols options were mostly DA/SA and overall industry quality controls on alloy framed pistols were better. In fact, many industry professionals, and subject matter experts on this forum will steer you away from DA/SA guns in favor of the ever increasingly more popular striker fired pistols. If you insist on using a DA/SA pistol, for GOD's SAKE keep your H&K P2000, and convert it to LEM!

Given the choice, I would rather use a single trigger condition pistol in the $500-$600 range and mount a Trijicon RMR on it for duty or competition use. I only hope that H&K produces a striker fired version of the P30.

ghostrider1

07-09-12, 20:06

I've done the striker fired pistols. I've had a few of them, glock, m&p, 24/7, cz100. The only one of those I have left is the m&p. I much prefer hammer fired made by a company that has set standard inthe industry. Many people have had nothing but issues with there sigs and many have ran like a scalled dogs and, you're gonna have that issue with just about every company that mass produces their guns.

kmrtnsn

07-09-12, 20:15

I would rather carry a S&W 686, than switch from an HK P2000 to any SIG P Series. And yes, I have carried variations of all of the above.

Here is a test for you the next time you finger fumble that SIG at the LGS. Put it into your left hand, and work all of the controls like you can your P2000 with just your left hand only, slide release, mag release, etc..

John Fritz

07-09-12, 20:52

Just so happens I have my 299 stainless Elite on my desk here, it's out of the safe for carry rotation. I absolutely love my 229 so maybe I'm not the best one to take advice from. My objectivity may be a bit biased. 'cause I'm going to tell you to go for it!

I can tell you that the all-stainless flavor tends to be a bit top-heavy (to me) and the aluminum framed 229 balances a bit better. But I loves me some stainless so I overlook this issue. It's as accurate as I want it to be, I'm no Bob Munden but I can put bullets on the target to my satisfaction with this gun. The Elite has the SRT and that is definitely worth the price of admission. Mine is new so it has the big extractor on it. I don't care for the look but I've had no FTE's with it so my extractor is working as advertised. To offset that issue, these new ones have scalloped slides on them and that looks good. Gives good grip to your fingers when they're sweaty or wet. If you are right handed then of course the controls won't be an issue for you. But they can be manipulated with your index finger when you hold the gun with your left hand.

I'm not familiar with the P2000 so only you know if it's a worthwhile swap. But can you keep both? That would solve that issue. :)

ghostrider1

07-09-12, 21:07

Just so happens I have my 299 stainless Elite on my desk here, it's out of the safe for carry rotation. I absolutely love my 229 so maybe I'm not the best one to take advice from. My objectivity may be a bit biased. 'cause I'm going to tell you to go for it!

I can tell you that the all-stainless flavor tends to be a bit top-heavy (to me) and the aluminum framed 299 balances a bit better. But I loves me some stainless so I overlook this issue. It's as accurate as I want it to be, I'm no Bob Munden but I can put bullets on the target to my satisfaction with this gun. The Elite has the SRT and that is definitely worth the price of admission. Mine is new so it has the big extractor on it. I don't care for the look but I've had no FTE's with it so my extractor is working as advertised. To offset that issue, these new ones have scalloped slides on them and that looks good. Gives good grip to your fingers when they're sweaty or wet. If you are right handed then of course the controls won't be an issue for you. But they can be manipulated with your index finger when you hold the gun with your left hand.

I'm not familiar with the P2000 so only you know if it's a worthwhile swap. But can you keep both? That would solve that issue. :)

John, I would like to have both but, I can't. Something has to go in order for me to get the sig. I have my m&p which is my all purpose gun so, the hk I can let go of without any hard feelings.

DiabhailGadhar

07-10-12, 08:58

I have a P229 SCT that's had an action enhancement done by sig and an SRT kit installed. Love my gun, however I would highly recommend putting a few mags through one before purchase. The thing I have to consistently remind myself about the pistol is the fact that the slide release seems to be the perfect place to rest your thumb and that is an issue with a carry gun.
However, that is a training thing and can be easily overcome. Other then that I have a p220 Combat both pistols I bought before hearing all the stuff about how bad they are...I used the P220 in a IDPA match with about fifty rounds through it prior. During one of the stages I dropped a mag with rounds down, I was wearing gloves and it was drizziling as always, in to the wet sand/mud of WA state banged the mag on my leg once and then crammed the mag in....made it through that match and I think I'm up around 700 rounds through that gun and I have only cleaned it twice..Once right after that match and once when I tore it down to install an SRT kit...I'm not buying into the sigs are crap stuff..as I have not seen it personally.

If you like the gun and it feels good to you, get it...there will always be some one out there in gun land that will buy it if you want to go back...you can PM if you want to come off it..:D

F-Trooper05

07-10-12, 11:19

...it's out of the safe for carry rotation.

And boom goes the dynamite.

HKBanger

07-10-12, 11:58

I think you're insane if you sell any HK for any new'ish Sig Sauer. You're going from the best firearm manufacturer in the world to a washed up, used-to-be. Just my 2 cents.

SheWantsMyGlock

07-10-12, 14:25

Had a newer 229 with the new grip and the SRT. I bought it new before firing one. The gun felt like a dream in my hands but I just couldn't shoot it well in comparison to striker fired pistols. After a lot of contemplating and worrying I would miss it I took a loss on it and traded it off. Haven't looked back since. While Sig does make a fine pistol with their classic line I prefer HK when you get into that class of handgun. I would put as many rounds as you could down range before you fork over that much coin just to make sure you really do like the firearm.

Awesome1228

07-10-12, 15:02

I think you're insane if you sell any HK for any new'ish Sig Sauer. You're going from the best firearm manufacturer in the world to a washed up, used-to-be. Just my 2 cents.

While this may be somewhat a matter of opinion, there is some validity to that opinion. OP, do some searching on this board, there is a lot of info on new vs. old sigs. I was recently considering buying a new sig and decided to buy a 1993 manufacture 226 instead after doing a lot of research and getting scared away from the new ones. But, many people have had new manufacture pistols work with no problems. Best advice I can come up with is research the pros and cons for yourself, and figure out what you are comfortable with.

Personally, I wasn't comfortable enough with the recent problems with SIGs to feel confident dropping a grand on one.

DiabhailGadhar

07-10-12, 22:42

ALSO..Make sure the source is a valid one. A lot of the rumors about Sig are just that rumors, started by people that have "read" but have no first hand knowledge..Or maybe I just got the only two good ones Sig made...:rolleyes:

While this may be somewhat a matter of opinion, there is some validity to that opinion. OP, do some searching on this board, there is a lot of info on new vs. old sigs. I was recently considering buying a new sig and decided to buy a 1993 manufacture 226 instead after doing a lot of research and getting scared away from the new ones. But, many people have had new manufacture pistols work with no problems. Best advice I can come up with is research the pros and cons for yourself, and figure out what you are comfortable with.

Personally, I wasn't comfortable enough with the recent problems with SIGs to feel confident dropping a grand on one.

Awesome1228

07-11-12, 11:36

Make sure the source is a valid one. A lot of the rumors about Sig are just that rumors, started by people that have "read" but have no first hand knowledge..Or maybe I just got the only two good ones Sig made...:rolleyes:

It looks like you are using my post in order to make a point and you didn't even read what I wrote. You quoted it, maybe you should read it.

I will summarize for you if that is too much work...do some research and buy what you are comfortable with.

You're happy with your SIGs, I'm happy with mine, hopefully the OP will be happy with his as well.

DiabhailGadhar

07-11-12, 21:36

I was actually trying to agree with and add too what you wrote...I'm sorry the big kids knocked your books out of your hands on the way to the schools bus, maybe tomorrow will be better..

It looks like you are using my post in order to make a point and you didn't even read what I wrote. You quoted it, maybe you should read it.

I will summarize for you if that is too much work...do some research and buy what you are comfortable with.

You're happy with your SIGs, I'm happy with mine, hopefully the OP will be happy with his as well.

RagweedZulu

07-11-12, 21:56

Children! Children!

OP, one thing we all need to get past is buying a gun because it feels good in our hands. We're not buying a dang mattress, who cares if it is comfortable?!?!?

I used to own a W. German 228 and a NH 226 and loved em both. But now days I shoot Glocks almost exclusively off duty. They are in no way a comfortable gun, but dammit, they shoot every time and I can run one better than any SIG or Smith I've ever owned.

You gotta go shoot one brother. If it runs well for you, that's the gun for you, but please don't fall into the trap of buying a smooth feeling weapon. You'll never be holding the thing all day, so hand comfort should have very little to do with selecting a handgun.

rathos

07-11-12, 22:43

I have owned a few different sigs. The one that was the least accurate and had the most issues was my west german folded slide 226. I picked it up and had it completely worked over by my department armorer replacing everything expect the barrel after the initial issues. The gun still had a lot of issues, tried replacing the barrel and that didn't do much either. Finally got rid of it. Both my newer 228R and my 226 e2 have had no issues. My buddy also owns a newer 220 elite that has had no issues after thousands of rounds.

I will admit that striker fired guns are easier to master as the trigger pull is always the same, but I actually fire my sigs more accurately. If you like the 229 then get it. I also owned a H&K P2000 in .40 and the double action pull was a little bit more rough then any sig I have owned but I have to say it was much nicer to carry as it was quite light.

Alaskapopo

07-12-12, 00:03

Tough to beat a 229 if you like the ergos of it. There are a ton of good DA/SA guns out there (your HK fits the bill) but it you think the 229 fist you better and you shoot it better----go for it. It's a great gun.

Someone will inevidibly post about SIGs' deteroriating QC lately but I've only seen that on a couple models personally (250 and 290 specifically). All the new 226s, MK25s, 229s, ect... have been as good as they've always been.

Really there is a quite a bit of evidence to the contrary. I have seen issues with the P229 the Forest Service here uses. One person I was running through their department qualification had 4 malfunctions in 50 rounds. The 229 I had 15 years back was flawless. This is just one example of many you will see. Sigs quality has taken a dump, no debate on that one. Its fact.

Awesome1228

07-12-12, 10:38

I was actually trying to agree with and add too what you wrote...I'm sorry the big kids knocked your books out of your hands on the way to the schools bus, maybe tomorrow will be better..

Hey, if I took what you wrote the wrong way, I apologize. Not trying to be confrontational, apparently misinterpreted what you were getting at. Maybe it was the eye rolling emoticon that made me think you were being a little snippy.

Ragweed, I don't mean comfortable as in feels good in the hand, although I do think that is important. Different discussion for a different day. By comfortable I mean mentally willing to move forward with a purchase. I'm an analytical person. I want info. I was not comfortable buying a new SIG based on info at hand. Was it good info? Hard to tell, but what was known with no ambiguity is that earlier manufacture SIGs have excellent reliability and value. That's the idea that I was trying to convey to the OP. I was not confident purchasing a new SIG, but I was extremely confident buying an older one. Maybe confident is a better choice of words here than comfortable.

Microalign

07-12-12, 10:57

Really there is a quite a bit of evidence to the contrary. I have seen issues with the P229 the Forest Service here uses. One person I was running through their department qualification had 4 malfunctions in 50 rounds. The 229 I had 15 years back was flawless. This is just one example of many you will see. Sigs quality has taken a dump, no debate on that one. Its fact.

Same here. I went through an instructor course two years ago with a class of 24(max for the Glynco range). Most of us had P229 .40s, with some P226 .40s and P220 .45s here and there. We went through about 3000rds each for the course, and you notice when someone is struggling on the line with weapon issues. Most of us were using P229s off of the 2004 DHS contract.......so pre Cohen. 5 of the officers had newer railed P229s and anytime we all glanced over to see who was having problems it was from these guys. Even after a couple of them took off their tac lights, the malfunctions persisted after the guns had been run hard and were dirty. Two of the newer guns seemed to run fine, but the other three had persistant problems. I didn't notice a single weapon related problem with the older DHS guns on the line. Apparently this is turning into a common trend with the FLETC instructors, and will definately influence what pistol model our agencies go with once it is time to dump our Sigs. At the moment, piggybacking onto ATF's contracts for Glocks and M&Ps, or CBP's H&K contract is very tempting for us.

John Fritz

07-12-12, 18:06

Jeez! Am I on the Kimber forum?

All of my new SIGs run fine (obviously an oversight that occurred somewhere at the factory while being built). Of course, that is what's called anecdotal evidence and proves nothing about SIG quality one way or the other.

Good enough for me though. Thats' why I have a bunch of them in the safe.

.

Alaskapopo

07-12-12, 18:14

John Fritz

07-12-12, 18:25

:rolleyes:

Alaskapopo

07-12-12, 18:43

:rolleyes:

Yep your head is stuck in the sand.
Pat

G34

07-12-12, 19:23

Yep your head is stuck in the sand.
Pat

My Gen 4 Glock was fine and was manufactured when the bad parts were still going out. I also won't deny that the Gen 4 Glocks had serious teething issues and maybe still do.

That whole sample size of one thing really gets people.

ghostrider1

07-12-12, 19:45

My Gen 4 Glock was fine and was manufactured when the bad parts were still going out. I also won't deny that the Gen 4 Glocks had serious teething issues and maybe still do.

That whole sample size of one thing really gets people.

I did give a gen4 g19 a thought as well. But, everyone wants ti give glocks a high peice tag in my area. My head was in the sand for a while when I got my first HK you couldn't tell me shit. Now that I have got some age and just a smigin of wisdom, I know that there a few more great comapnies out there that I trust protecting my life with. S&W has problems with some m&p's and they are still bwing soaked up by folks. Sometimes it is just a QC issue.

Alaskapopo

07-12-12, 23:29

My Gen 4 Glock was fine and was manufactured when the bad parts were still going out. I also won't deny that the Gen 4 Glocks had serious teething issues and maybe still do.

That whole sample size of one thing really gets people.

Yep some people have some good examples of a gun and they think everyone else who shares a problem with the same model is lying. Seems like most manufacturing companies of late have taken a dive in quality Sig being a prime example.
Pat

G34

07-13-12, 00:55

I did give a gen4 g19 a thought as well. But, everyone wants ti give glocks a high peice tag in my area.

www.Budsgunshop.com

If you feel nervous go ahead and ask them if they can check the boxes to see if they can find you a Gen 4 test fired after the point where the RSA/ejector/extractor issues were fixed. I will say though the trigger is slightly more meh than the Gen 3s. That being said, they are fine for duty triggers out of the box.

Also, the only Gen 4 I have (a 34) is borderline oversprung for 115gr practice ammo and may not cycle if someone can't grip the weapon properly or if you have an awkward hold on the weapon. I wouldn't recommend carrying it without +P ammo if you go for a full size 9mm.

Rinspeed

07-13-12, 06:31

ALSO..Make sure the source is a valid one. A lot of the rumors about Sig are just that rumors, started by people that have "read" but have no first hand knowledge..

That's the errornet for you.

kymudder08

07-14-12, 13:30

i just bought a used sig p229 SCT for $750 otd the other day and love it. came with 4, 18 round mags. on the expensive mag issue, just buy Mec-Gar mags. they make them for sig sauer anyways and are half the price!

Microalign

07-14-12, 15:06

That's the errornet for you.

It is very unlikely that you will see another major pistol trial involving the classic series of Sig pistols. As has been mentioned in other threads, DA/SA(and hammer fired pistols in general) guns are losing popularity in LE circles due to their cost and the increasing realization that striker fired pistols with their single trigger condition are exceptional. I won't go into the absolutely ridiculous, pathetic, and embarrasing performance that Sig Sauer displayed in the ATF pistol trials with the P250. In regards to the classic line, it will be more difficult to measure the quality, reliability, and dependability of these pistols by the average civilian customer since they will unlikely be involved in any future trials.....and they are slowly being replaced in LE circles by different makes. Especially when those customer's only purchase a small sample of the market. A major LE organization will purchase hundreds, sometimes thousands of pistols per contract resulting an a MUCH larger sample of data. This is why it is more important to listen to officers who work for(or with) agencies that use Sigs rather than listening to a few civilian customer testimonials. Another good source would be M4Carbine's Industry Professionals like Gary Roberts, Larry Vickers, or Ken Hackathorn, who see large volumes of Sigs in trainings. The majority concensus between these two branches is that the Sigs of today do not perform or last as long as the Sigs of the past. Take it for what it's worth, there are also civilian buyers who swear by CZs.

BillDoubleU

07-14-12, 16:52

I'll just add that I actually purchased a brand new P229R E2 less then 2 weeks ago and it has already made a trip to Sig for repairs.

Started off with 2 failures to extract and then was had 4 failure to return to battery.

Just got it back yesterday with a new extractor and springs and again, 2 failures to extract within the 1st 100 rounds today. Needless to say I'll be calling Sig to ask WTF!

I am having a very hard time getting excited about what was suppose to be my new CCW gun.

But on the flip side, my brother has a P229R E2 that is less then a year old with absolutely no malfunctions. I have a 2 year old P226R with no malfunctions over 5,000+ rounds. I don't think you can go wrong with a 226 but I'd be wary of the 229's at this point after my experience and all that I've read on the Sig forum.

Rowland_P

07-14-12, 17:46

The P229 is probably my favorite Sig. Mine has run flawlessly with all manner of ammunition. Likewise for my Sig P220s. I did suffer a broken extractor in the P220R. Sig sent me a new extractor, pin and spring based solely on my phone call.

I've owned other Sigs, including a Browning BDA .45 and a P226, both German. Both were reliable.

I've got no preference either way when it comes to German-made or US-made Sigs. My old Sigs had nothing on my newer Sigs with respect to fit, finish or reliability. You'll find that in a Sig community, like Sig Forums, where Sig owners don't pull any punches when it comes to assessing Sigs, the majority opinion is that while there is some nostalgic desire for older German-made Sigs, they really aren't any better than newer American made guns. I'm not sure anyone can make a rational argument that folded carbon steel slides are better than milled stainless slide - except when it comes to weight.

Compared to other guns I've owned, particulary Glock, I consider the Sigs superior in quality. I've owned five Glocks, only two of which were problem-free - a Gen 1 17, and a 21. My 21SF, 30SF and 36 were so unreliable that I could not consider them acceptable for anything other than range use, and the 30SF not even that. The 30SF suffered from the notorious failure to return to battery issue that generated one of the longest threads in gun forum history on GlockTalk. New recoil springs, trigger bar and a trip to Glock proved useless and before the gun was sold was failing to return to battery nearly 100% of the time. The 36 had many FTE and FTF issues, sometimes multiple times per magazine. The 21SF had the trigger-bar rub and had many FTF malfunctions.

If you like the 229, buy it. You'll be buying one of the finest 9mms available.