View Full Version : Please go easy on me (new guy to ARs)
Stopsign32v
07-09-12, 20:29
I heard this was a good site to learn about AR15s. I'm looking to get or build my first one. I'll be honest I don't know a lot about AR's or guns (I have a basic understanding of them and how they work) but I do build motors for my hobby so I was thinking about assembling my own one. I will be modding the snot out of it anyways because I can't leave it alone so I figure I might want to build one. I know BCM is a badass company and I love the idea of having their chrome lined 1:7 16" upper so I was thinking of going with this...
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=UPR-BCM
Now what I DON'T know is the difference in the 16" ones they offer.
http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG418/184
After these parts I would need a complete lower and I would be good to go right?
Main diff between the available chrome lined 16s is the gas system. One is a carbine (shorter) and the other a midlength (longer). The next would be their respective profiles, m4/govt and lightweight.
The MOE handguard is a good place to start. I recommend shooting it bone stock and then get stuff as needed.
Go through the threads linked below. There are tons of info for you to get a better understanding of the AR platform in general, as well as, its finer details.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7009
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7355
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=35490
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=85863
Stopsign32v
07-09-12, 20:45
Looking around this lower caught my eye and I must admit that I'm a sucker for the logo.
http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/pirate-lower-w-standard-kit-black-ctr-stock-moe-grip-p-532.html
With everything in the links I would have a complete AR?
Just talk to Grant directly (C4IGrant) on here and he'll get you set up/answer all your questions. He's the owner of G&R. He also has a Dealer Forum below.
You're in good hands with Grant.
Anytime someone asks, "Please be easy on me.....". And follows up with a "I'll be modifying the hell out of it." Someone should be there giving that said person a swift kick in the nuts just for the sake of principles! :laugh:
Do yourself and others a favor and just get this,
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6720
Or this,
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6920
To answer your question though, you might want to add a rear sight. You can also add some magazines. After that several cases of ammo. After that, anything goes.The sky's the limit along with your bank account! :D
Complete upper, complete lower, grips, stock, that's all you need. The stock is usually with the complete lower, so you have all you need. However, according to their page, the upper doesn't come with a bolt, bolt carrier, or charging handle, so you need those as well.
As for the difference between BCM's uppers, don't worry about all that just yet. Get one, build it, shoot it, read up, learn as you go.
The upper you have linked to has everything you need. It has magnetic particle inspected (they test the barrel to check the integrity of the steel) and high pressure tested (they use an overpressured round to ensure it's strength) barrel.
They have a 5.56 chamber, which means you can use ammunition marked .223 or 5.56x45mm ammo (5.56 mm ammo has higher pressure than .223).
It has a 1 in 7" twist, which means it will shoot lighter or heavier bullets and keep them properly stabilized (slower twists 1 in 9", for instance, might not properly stabilize heavier bullets).
It has chrome lined chamber and bore, which makes them more resistant to corrosion and longer lasting.
All kinds of people are going to come on and tell you you need:
A piston driven gun, not direct impingement. 'Cause real men don't shoot DI guns. Ignore them. DI was good enough for me in the infantry, it was completely reliable, even with blanks, it's good enough for civilian use.
An AK, an M1A, a FAL, a 7.62 mm rifle, or whatever. 'Cause real men don't shoot puny cartridges. Ignore them.
A Colt, an LMT, Noveske, Daniel Defense, or other particular brand. 'Cause real men don't skimp on their rifles. Ignore them.
Rails, Rails, Rails. Rails on the forend, rails on the front sight base, rails on barrel mounts; Optics; 45 degree iron sights; front vertical grips; two stage, three stage, half pound triggers by companies you can't pronounce; stocks that hold batteries, breath mints, and spare toilet paper for those range emergencies. Ignore them.
Buy your rifle, shoot it, become proficient, learn to clean it, learn to disassemble it. Have fun, enjoy yourself, and as you go, mod it. Only start modding it after you can shoot and disassemble it.
Have fun and welcome to the community of Barbie for guys.
G&R is a good company. If that gentleman is the owner, he should be able to set you up.
IYAAYASwarrior
07-09-12, 21:12
Being a gear-head will help alot. Some of the basic principles transfer across the board. "Building" and piecing an AR together are two seperate tasks. For a build you need specific tools some of which you may already own (vice, bench, ect) With the information you have given us already I would say start with a basic AR. You already hit the nail on the head with BCM, and if I am not mistaken you can get a complete BCM M4 MOD 0 from midwest industries for just over $1K and that is ready to shoot. You can check one out here https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=95102
Magpul handguards are readily available on the EE and there pretty much isnt a better starting point IMO.
Bizzarolibe
07-09-12, 21:17
Looking around this lower caught my eye and I must admit that I'm a sucker for the logo.
http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/pirate-lower-w-standard-kit-black-ctr-stock-moe-grip-p-532.html
With everything in the links I would have a complete AR?
Not quite. You would also need a bolt carrier group (another 150$). And for the money, I think you can do just a bit better--and even get better quality.
As for the lower, as anyone around here can tell you, I'm a Spikes fan. Unfortunately, you may be waiting a very, VERY long time for that lower (possibly 3-6 months). Also, the upper you want is out of stock, and BCM sells out fast and often has long re-stock times.
If I may, here are my recommendations. Keep in mind that you will come out with an (arguably) better product and it will be cheaper.
Now if you go with the first option, you will have to assemble your lower. But honestly, I had zero experience in, well, anything of a mechanical nature (heck I don't even change my oil) and I assembled my own lower by myself with a few common hand tools and a 7$ AR castle nut wrench in under 2 hours. Also, I had virtually no knowledge of the AR platform. There are plenty of writups here and, er, elsewhere with pictures and detailed instructions on how to assemble your own lower, so without further ado...
Lower (if you want to build your own):
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/receivers/psa-ar15-lower.html
+
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/lower-build-kit-sale/moe-lower-build-kit-black.html
Or, if you don't want to build your own:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/receivers/complete-psa-ar15-lower-moe-edition.html
Upper (and yes, it is in stock according to the website):
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1722
This upper is, in my opinion, a better choice than the BCM. It is, in terms of quality, identical to the BCM, but considering the rail system it comes with as well as the fact that it comes WITH a bolt carrier group, it is a better value overall.
As for sights, just get a set of Magpul MBUS sights and you're good to go. You could get a nicer set if you wanted to, but chances are you'll be putting an optic on it in the near future so I wouldn't bother with premium irons. I've never had a problem with the MBUS.
That comes out to 1025$ (if you buy the assembled lower--935$ if you assemble your own) for a rifle WITH a free-floating rail system, Magpul furniture, and what is, in my opinion, a more optimal gas system than a carbine.
Stopsign32v
07-09-12, 21:33
^^PSA is a little under a hour away from my house. I was going to buy my LE Colt from them 2 years ago.
Bizzarolibe
07-09-12, 22:21
^^PSA is a little under a hour away from my house. I was going to buy my LE Colt from them 2 years ago.
Then that should make things all the more convenient for you ;)
Seriously though, I've always used their lowers and parts kits for my builds and have never been let down. They're just a great company to do business with overall (and I buy much more from them than just lowers and parts kits).
Bizzarolibe, you've been a member for almost two years and still think PSA is better than BCM? :blink:
Bizzarolibe
07-10-12, 00:06
Bizzarolibe, you've been a member for almost two years and still think PSA is better than BCM? :blink:
You clearly did not read my whole post. At all. Go back and read it, then apologize for mischaracterizing me ;)
Navymid2011
07-10-12, 00:13
I'll say this, having learned from experience.
KEEP IT SIMPLE AND LIGHT AT FIRST!!!
The M-16/M-4 was designed to be a light infantry weapon. The more crap you add on, rails, slings, optics, grips, rail covers, the heavier it becomes until you may as well carry a damn M-14.
Stick to a solid starter carbine. BCM or Colt is good. I went with Stag since Colt was $1600 in Maryland, and nobody would FFL a BCM for me. I am saving up as we speak for a Colt 6921 or BCM equivalent. You can find them for ~ $1000 on the internet.
Second, evaluate seriously any modification you make to the weapon. Have a good reason for ANY weight you add to the weapon at all. It adds up quick.
Take an honest look at what kind of shooting you'll do most, and get the optic that is best suited. In addition, realize that there is nothing wrong with shooting irons for a while until you can afford/know what optic you want. It'll make you a better shooter.
Stopsign32v
07-10-12, 00:16
This will be a HD weapon and the real only add on I feel I NEED is a light with a quick and easy on/off to get to. Other than that I don't need anything major. I'm still set on building my first (well assembling it)
Bizzarolibe
07-10-12, 00:21
I'll say this, having learned from experience.
KEEP IT SIMPLE AND LIGHT AT FIRST!!!
The M-16/M-4 was designed to be a light infantry weapon. The more crap you add on, rails, slings, optics, grips, rail covers, the heavier it becomes until you may as well carry a damn M-14.
Stick to a solid starter carbine. BCM or Colt is good. I went with Stag since Colt was $1600 in Maryland, and nobody would FFL a BCM for me. I am saving up as we speak for a Colt 6921 or BCM equivalent. You can find them for ~ $1000 on the internet.
Second, evaluate seriously any modification you make to the weapon. Have a good reason for ANY weight you add to the weapon at all. It adds up quick.
Take an honest look at what kind of shooting you'll do most, and get the optic that is best suited. In addition, realize that there is nothing wrong with shooting irons for a while until you can afford/know what optic you want. It'll make you a better shooter.
Actually, some rail systems are ligher than plastic handguards. I believe the rail system on the upper I recommended is, inch for inch, ligher than MOE handguards.
But yeah, I put way too much crap on my first AR and it just became too heavy. Weight is a big deal. But as long as you buy accessories with weight in mind, you should be fine. I think a light, optic, and sling are all most people need to have a very function weapon system.
I'll cast a vote for buy a factory rifle as your first if it's intent is HD/PD. Not to degrade your mechanical inclination or anything, but Paul at BCM or the guys at Colt or Mr. Daniel's company are simply better at building M4 platform rifles you can stake your bacon on when the chips are down. It's a known commodity. :)
Get the rifle, the ammo, the practice/training,shoot the piss out of it, then build a second.
Get the rifle, the ammo, the practice/training,shoot the piss out of it, then build a second.
Excellent advice that goes ignored far too often.
Excellent advice that goes ignored far too often.
Yep, many people get sucked into buying and building and not shooting and training.
-Jax
You clearly did not read my whole post. At all. Go back and read it, then apologize for mischaracterizing me ;)
Ah, sorry... I didn't see the Rainier link wedged in there! :D
agreed !!you can own all the cool toys in the world ,but unless you put some rounds down range and practice stoppage drills and work on your shooting skills it will do you no good.
Like some guys i know that sit and clean their weapons Just to keep it shinny and new looking even though they could count the Number of mags put through it on one hand :rolleyes:
1859sharps
07-10-12, 11:25
I heard this was a good site to learn about AR15s.
you heard right, check out the stickies and just read through the forum. lots of very commonly asked and answered questions and general good info to find.
I'm looking to get or build my first one. I'll be honest I don't know a lot about AR's or guns .... I will be modding the snot out of it...
everyone's got to start some where, but if this is your first AR, how the heck are you going to know what "modding" you need until you put some time in at the range or a training class?
As already suggested I would strongly encourage you to get a complete rifle first, learn to shoot it, ask your self what your going to do with it, take some classes that match what you want to do with the rifle, then look into modding it. cheaper that way.
Welcome, will this AR be your first and/or only firearm?
Stopsign32v
07-10-12, 18:11
Thanks guys and I got with Grant and will probably get my parts from him to build it. Might just build a solid BCM gun. I plan to shoot it as much as possible. Not sure why everyone is saying to buy a complete gun over getting a complete upper and a complete lower and putting them together. :confused: I'll need to know how to take them apart anyways, I will be changing out the grip, handguard, and stock so why not do it right the first time and save money?
Welcome, will this AR be your first and/or only firearm?
It is not my first nor my last. After the AR I wouldn't mind getting a 6.8 rifle but that's another topic.
Was just checking out Midwest Industries and saw that you can get a complete BCM Lower($375), BCM Middy Upper($420), and BCM BCG($150)......all in stock! Add a $20 set of handguards, Rear BUIS, and a 10 pack of GI mags from DSGArms for $85 and you'd have a nice set up!
I really can spell, however Tapatalk keeps screwing everything up!
Thanks guys and I got with Grant and will probably get my parts from him to build it. Might just build a solid BCM gun. I plan to shoot it as much as possible. Not sure why everyone is saying to buy a complete gun over getting a complete upper and a complete lower and putting them together. :confused: I'll need to know how to take them apart anyways, I will be changing out the grip, handguard, and stock so why not do it right the first time and save money?
It is not my first nor my last. After the AR I wouldn't mind getting a 6.8 rifle but that's another topic.
You'll get a lot of back and forth from people because it's your first rifle. There are a lot of experienced military, LEO and shooters in general around these parts, so the advice given is a lot less far flung than what you'd find elsewhere. People are just trying to steer you in the right direction and save you headaches/lessons learned that we've all had.
That being said, if you work with Grant on getting your parts kits, you'll be fine. Like I said earlier in this thread, he'll get you where you want to go and make sure you end up with a rock solid and reliable setup. If you're thinking BCM after talking to him, stay on that track. That's a great first choice and one you won't regret putting together.
Good luck with your build and be sure to let us know how it comes together. Have fun!
Thanks guys and I got with Grant and will probably get my parts from him to build it. Might just build a solid BCM gun. I plan to shoot it as much as possible. Not sure why everyone is saying to buy a complete gun over getting a complete upper and a complete lower and putting them together. :confused: I'll need to know how to take them apart anyways, I will be changing out the grip, handguard, and stock so why not do it right the first time and save money?
It is not my first nor my last. After the AR I wouldn't mind getting a 6.8 rifle but that's another topic.
Oh gotcha. You do realize there isnt any "building" to putting a lower and upper together right? :D:D:D:D:D:D With your mention of mechanical inclination and what not I thought you were going from scratch. My bad.
Thanks guys and I got with Grant and will probably get my parts from him to build it. Might just build a solid BCM gun. I plan to shoot it as much as possible. Not sure why everyone is saying to buy a complete gun over getting a complete upper and a complete lower and putting them together. :confused: I'll need to know how to take them apart anyways, I will be changing out the grip, handguard, and stock so why not do it right the first time and save money?
It is not my first nor my last. After the AR I wouldn't mind getting a 6.8 rifle but that's another topic.
That's not building an AR. We thought you meant buying all the parts and tools to build one.
I really can spell, however Tapatalk keeps screwing everything up!
I hate auto complete too. I miss the real spell checker my BB's had.
I will be changing out the grip, handguard, and stock so why not do it right the first time and save money?
Also you can buy your complete upper without a handguard, and a complete lower without a stock and choose what you want to go on them. Why buy something that includes something you dont need just to change it out? That is not the way to save money :) LMFAO ask me how I know! :suicide:
Stopsign32v
07-10-12, 20:15
Good luck with your build and be sure to let us know how it comes together. Have fun!
Oh I'm sure my post count will climb fast. There will be pics as it comes along. Just gotta get back from the family vacation first. :dance3:
Oh gotcha. You do realize there isnt any "building" to putting a lower and upper together right? :D:D:D:D:D:D With your mention of mechanical inclination and what not I thought you were going from scratch. My bad.
That's not building an AR. We thought you meant buying all the parts and tools to build one.
Sorry guys, I shoulda been more clear. :o No I wouldn't even think about building an AR from scratch at this point!! :lol:
Got a sneak peek at the OP's BCM. Tac light has to go bro....
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/318840_10151095847752650_828127165_n.jpg
Stopsign32v
07-10-12, 21:01
First thing that comes to mind is you must be the cute guy on here. But then looking at your 56 posts you're as much a noob as myself. Plus I was told your type stayed to AR15.com. So what gives?
I've lurked here for years before joining or posting, reading and searching. Absorbing. Figured that was better than asking the same absurd, and silly questions over and over again.
As for being cute....nah....a little humor is accepted here, M4C is not the staunchy dictatorship some would lead you to believe. Great resource and good people, with a plethora of knowledge and experience.
Good luck with your weapon.
Buying a complete upper and complete lower separate is not a bad way to go. That's how I bought my latest AR.
I got a complete upper (14.5 middy with pined compensator) and BCG directly from BCM and I bought a BCM blemished lower from Grant. I tried to find the flaw in the blemished lower and for the life of me I could not find any. I couldn't be happier with my purchase. You'll really like the BCM and customer service from both BCM and Grant is outstanding. :dance3:
Ken
TheWaker43
07-12-12, 00:01
Let me know if I am stepping out of line. As you can tell from my post count I am new myself. But I have put together two stripped lowers using G&R parts kits and Noveske lowers over the past few months and I feel that it really helped me get a better understanding of how an AR works. Great, detailed videos online, I used Brownells and ITS Tactical for reference.
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