>Class 3 Laser Ownership?

[Reagans Rascals]

My question is, is there an actual law on the books that prevents civilians owning IR lasers Class 3 and up?

Or is it just an off-the-books regulation adhered to by the companies that produce them voluntarily?

Example... I cannot purchase a PEQ 15 from TVNC because I am not LEO/MIL and do not have an Agency PO.

The Disclaimer at the bottom reads:
"IR Lasers are restricted to Law Enforcement and Government sales only and cannot be sold to civilians. Purchase of IR Laser equipment can only occur at the Department, Agency, or Unit level. IR Lasers cannot be sold to individual Law Enforcement, Military, Government, or Contractor personnel. No exceptions. If you are a government employee and would like to purchase an IR laser, you must have your agency place the order for you. We do not make the rules, but we do follow them. These lasers are regulated by the FDA (Food & Drug Administration). Price inquires must include an email request from an official government or government contractor email address. All ITAR restrictions apply."

So I am asking, is there an actual, enforceable law on the books, or are they legal to have but just regulated to keep civi's from purchasing them, thus... if you do happen to get your hands on one you're more than fine to have it.

To me it just seems like a way to keep the price up.. being selective and keeping it from the masses raises value... while also limiting the bumble****s who do stupid shit with them like shoot them at planes at night...

[highlighter]

I'd like to know myself.....

[Allen]

http://www.fda.gov/radiation-emittingproducts/electronicproductradiationcontrolprogram/lawsandregulations/ucm118156.htm

TL;DR Version:
in 1968 the FDA was given the authority to regulate radiation producing devices. 21 CFR 1040.10 is what's pertinent to us in this case. While they aren't illegal, I think they are not sold to civilians as they don't have the requisite safety features that the FDA has determined are necessary.

Allen

[Reagans Rascals]

http://www.fda.gov/radiation-emittingproducts/electronicproductradiationcontrolprogram/lawsandregulations/ucm118156.htm

TL;DR Version:
in 1968 the FDA was given the authority to regulate radiation producing devices. 21 CFR 1040.10 is what's pertinent to us in this case. While they aren't illegal, I think they are not sold to civilians as they don't have the requisite safety features that the FDA has determined are necessary.

Allen

http://www.lasercompliance.com/us-regs.htm
http://www.lasercompliance.com/us-noncomply.htm

It seems like the regulation is based solely on the manufacture of laser devices being offered for sale, and the import and export of lasers, but not to whom you are going to sell it within the US...

From what I can see there is no actual regulation stating a manufacturer cannot sell them to the general public, or even who they can or can't sell them to in general.

So long as the system has been classified and accepted by the FDA and complies with specific guidelines of manufacture and safety.... then the item is able to be purchased by whoever wants it.... I'm sure PEQ series IR lasers are certified and have been accepted under FDA guidelines since they were given an NSN.... which means... legally I should be able to purchase one....

but I assume companies try to avoid the liability and only sell to specific people/agencies to avoid any issues further down the line

[Renegade]

The companies that make them are regulated as to who they can sell to.

If you come into one and it is not stolen, you are GTG. Many folks already own them and do not know it, it is in tools, electronics, etc.

For gun use you do not really want one anyway. They are way to bright. The Class I lasers are much better and more useful.

[Iraqgunz]

There is nothing that prohibits ownership. The companies that produce them are regulated by the FDA and they can only sell to LEO/military.

This subject has been discussed several times here in this area. That I know for sure.

[JohnnyC]

Legally there's nothing barring you from owning one. Legally there's nothing barring them from selling one to you provided you have and maintain the proper variance from the FDA. Laser variances are common in certain circumstances, laboratory work, laser shows, etc. Obtaining a variance is fairly straightforward, although you have to show a need, and typically "I want to tape one of these bastards to my gun and shoot stuff" is not considered a need. If you can manage to navigate the bureaucracy, and manage to acquire a variance that covers these devices, there would be nothing legally barring you from purchasing one, however that doesn't mean Insight or LDI will choose to sell you one, simply that there are no further LEGAL roadblocks to procurement.

Primarily this type of stuff is used in a laboratory setting or concert setting. At one time I held a variance for outdoor laser use that required such things as FDA, FAA and local AHJ notification. My variance only covered visible laser wavelengths, but I'm sure if I had a desire I could have gotten it to cover IR as well, under the guise of using an I-squared device for non-visible positional adjustment. In my case it would be totally useless, completely impractical. I figure the company wouldn't honor a purchase request despite having the legal paperwork, and I'm not going to try and attach a 250 pound Nd:YAG laser to my rifle.

In the end, it's not worth going through the hassle of obtaining the variance when realistically it's worthless in a civilian setting. The output on high, the regulated power settings, are far too bright for short-range use and I don't think you're planning on roping in some CAS any time soon. If you are you should be provided with the necessary equipment. The current Class 1 units do everything you need and are more suited to civilian use.

[SkyPup]

Civilian legal Class 1 lasers work better for most civilian uses anyway

[Dionysusigma]

Define the oft-used term "civilian use." :blink:

[JohnnyC]

Define the oft-used term "civilian use." :blink:

How about "uses other than roping in close air support."

In "typical" cases, it usually means night hunting (hogs, predators, etc.), or gear queering for internet photo ops. Fewer people use and train with them for self defense, although it does happen.

[JSantoro]

Define the oft-used term "civilian use." :blink:

Putting aside going chapter-and-verse on specific tasks/subtasks: Folks that aren't under any agency affiliations, yet train those that are.