View Full Version : How long between shots?
Graystroke
07-12-12, 12:26
I'm still working on a load/bullet combo for my Colt 6920 and I have another group ready to try. Is 1 minute between shots good enough or should I wait 2, 3, or even more? Thanks.
Wow. I usually just try to get the barrel warm with 5-10 "fouling" shots, and then keep up a consistent rate of fire, so it stays warm.
I don't wait longer between shots than I need to settle back in, take a deep breath, and let it halfway out...
Of course, I'm not a very good shot, either!
Boxerglocker
07-12-12, 14:35
I'm still working on a load/bullet combo for my Colt 6920 and I have another group ready to try. Is 1 minute between shots good enough or should I wait 2, 3, or even more? Thanks.
Do you intend to wait one minute between shots in every situation that you shoots those loads? If you do then yes wait, if not a consistent reasonable rate of firing to sight your target, breath and squeeze off 5 shots is all that is needed IMHO. I rest the barrel 5-10 in between strings.
Graystroke
07-12-12, 16:06
Thanks for the info. Actually I'm just trying to find out what my AR likes the best when following the one shot, one kill method. If I miss a yote then I'll throw a few followups at 'em but I'd like to hit it the first time. I'm really not into fouling shots as well since I always go out with a cold barrel. Maybe I'm doing things all wrong.
Thanks for the info. Actually I'm just trying to find out what my AR likes the best when following the one shot, one kill method. If I miss a yote then I'll throw a few followups at 'em but I'd like to hit it the first time. I'm really not into fouling shots as well since I always go out with a cold barrel. Maybe I'm doing things all wrong.
COLD bore and CLEAN bore are two totally different things.
I don't have a terrible amount of experience doing this, but common sense tells me that if working up a load and testing accuracy, you will have more consistency (read: accuracy) by staying on the gun and firing your 5 shot group as one string of fire. As was said, just give some time (a consistent amount of time) between strings instead of between shots.
I would take the bet that the best group you get with a barrel shooting a consecutive 5-shot string, will be the best, accurate load for your COLD bore shot.
Aside from that, just keep good data and know where your rifle will shoot with a cold bore vs warm/hot bore. (And that's a whole 'nother debate in and of itself)...
OP are trying to manage barrel temp or powder temp? What powder are you using? Some powders are more temp sensitive than others.
EXP: Say if you were using a hot H335 load you worked up on ave temp day, then used said hot load on a hot day, and then ran gun hot from rapid fire that could be very bad. Add in bullet setback from not crimpping (or making sure neck tension is sufficient) and your setting self up for upset.:cray:
Graystroke
07-12-12, 16:57
I'm using IMR-8208-XBR for both .204 Ruger and .223 Remington. I don't hunt coyotes from October 1st to January 1st unless I have the deer I wanted. The 8208 isn't suppose to be temp sensitive.
Graystroke
07-14-12, 06:34
Do you intend to wait one minute between shots in every situation that you shoots those loads? If you do then yes wait, if not a consistent reasonable rate of firing to sight your target, breath and squeeze off 5 shots is all that is needed IMHO. I rest the barrel 5-10 in between strings.
So if an intruder breaks breaks into your house, do you ask them to let you shoot a few fouling shots first?
All of the firearms I use for hunting - deer, chucks, coyotes - my first shot is with a cold barrel. I'm not about to shoot fouling shots everytime I go out. I'll just live with the results the way I shoot.
I think you're chasing your tail. You're 6920 is a quality gun, but not a precision one.
Have you assessed your cold bore, clean bore, and continuing fire/hot bore POI deviations to see if they are even of note, especially given the gun?
Failure2Stop
07-14-12, 10:16
I'm with skin on this one.
A 6920 is a solid 2 MOA gun with decent ammo (or slightly better), which is not really a candidate for such extreme precision protocol.
If you were working up a precision load for a 1/2 MOA gun, by all means, take it as slow as you want, but with what you are working with, the juice just ain't worth the squeeze.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
For load testing, let it cool to "warm barrel" between strings, not between shots. Pay attention to the first shot from cold/clean as well as cold bore - some riles will show a difference here. Easy way is to put the first couple on one target dot and then a string on a different dot.
You also want to know where (& how well) it shoots with a fairly hot barrel as well. There is no need to baby a chrome lined barrel. It is what it is, with a bias to longevity over accuracy,
This is a bit like fine tuning a load on a chassis dyno for use on a Kia - it's good to know the procedure, but not what the subject will benefit from.
Put a few rounds through of a known baseline round, then keep firing at no more than 5 rounds per minute until you have the info you need - focusing on keeping yourself out of the equation, and you'll be there on a non-match barrel.
Graystroke
07-14-12, 16:58
I understand what you guys are saying and next time out I'll go a different route. Instead of my OCW-Round Robin method, I'll shoot all 3 rounds of the same charge in a row and then wait a few minutes and shoot 3 rounds of the next charge.
On a predator forum I follow some of the shooters there don't shoot a fouling shot. Instead, after cleaning, they swab the barrel a couple of times with Lock-Ease sprayed on a patch, let it dry and then run a dry patch down the barrel. It's suppose to simulate "fouling" a barrel. I think I'll give it a try.
I understand what you guys are saying and next time out I'll go a different route. Instead of my OCW-Round Robin method, I'll shoot all 3 rounds of the same charge in a row and then wait a few minutes and shoot 3 rounds of the next charge.
On a predator forum I follow some of the shooters there don't shoot a fouling shot. Instead, after cleaning, they swab the barrel a couple of times with Lock-Ease sparyed on a patch, let it dry and then run a dry patch down the barrel. It's suppose to simulate "fouling" a barrel. I think I'll give it a try.
Three round groups? Fouling shots? In a 6920? I'm at a loss.
Foul a barrel by making loud noise and empty cases. Shoot no less than five rounds, and ideally ten to assess accuracy. Don't split half-MOA hairs in a 2-MOA gun.
This all sounds like a bad G&A article.
It sounds like the OP is doing a ladder test of sorts while working up an initial reload for a new rifle. Possibly new to reloading as well.
It's never a bad idea to be overly cautious when starting out. For a chrome lined A/R, I would still load more than 3 at a time for a specific powder charge. Three is for an expert fine tuning a precision bolt gun.
I never give cool down time to a AR-15 barrel on a per shot basis. I'd only bother cooling the barrel when it gets hot enough that touching it isn't a really happy thing (about 20 rounds is sufficient to make me not want to touch it), then just let it cool to where is warm to the touch and go again.
I like 10 shot groups from the AR, that gives you the top round in the mag and the bottom round in the mag (when using Kommiefornia legal 10rd mags) for as much difference in pressure under the bolt as possible between first and last round.
Graystroke
07-16-12, 18:45
I went to the range again today and shot (18) each of two different bullets pausing just enough time to record the velocity and then shoot again. I accomplished what I set out to but I don't think that way would work in my scenario. I think next time I'll shoot a 3 string sequence but I think I'll let alot more time pass between strings - I don't think scooting along with 18 shots accomplishes what I was looking for.
Hand wrapped around barrel without pain = cool enough. Titrate to this.
Just my .02 for THIS instance.
keep in mind that numbers of shots before the barrel heats will vary with the amount of powder being burned and weight of the barrel and outside temp and barrel profile (and other things) pretty dramatically. My 7mag heats up really bad after 4 shots. My pencil barrel .223 su-16 after 10 is very not skin friendly. My heavy barrel 6x45 AR takes an easy 18-20 and then stays hot for a while. When I'm shooting for groups shots are pretty carefully considered and I might get 2 groups shot in a 20 minute relay or I might get 6, sorta depends on the quality of the coffee and the wind. Nobody said you have to race through 10 3 shot groups
Graystroke
07-17-12, 20:41
When I'm shooting for groups shots are pretty carefully considered and I might get 2 groups shot in a 20 minute relay or I might get 6, sorta depends on the quality of the coffee and the wind. Nobody said you have to race through 10 3 shot groups
Actually I thought that is what Bimmer and boxerglocker was suggesting - racing thru the rounds. This is my first AR so I thought maybe things were done a bit differently but I think I'll go back to my old way which is what r3dn3ck is suggesting . . .
Alaskapopo
08-30-12, 01:04
I think you're chasing your tail. You're 6920 is a quality gun, but not a precision one.
Have you assessed your cold bore, clean bore, and continuing fire/hot bore POI deviations to see if they are even of note, especially given the gun?
Totally agree your not shooting a bench rest precision rifle. Just shoot it. When I am shooting for groups in load development I generally only wait long enough to check my shot in the spotting scope and settle back down for another round.
Pat
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