Help a new gun owner zero his rifle [Archive]

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chollow2

07-12-12, 20:03

I recently purchased a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 Magpul Moe Edition. This is my first rifle and I have never zeroed one before, so please forgive anything ignorant statements or questions. I have been reading about zeroing in the rifle and determined that the 50/200M seemed to suite my shooting needs the best and provides the flattest ballistic trajectory for reducing poa-poa variations over normal common shooting distances. In the IBZ sighting system it showed adjustments being performed on just the A2 style carry handle and didn’t know how those elevation adjustment presets would differ in my case since I am using the non elevation adjustable rear MBUS flip sights. My question is with the Magpul MBUS style flip us sights I have on my rifle which target should I use to zero my 16 inch rifle on the 50/200M zero? Any explanations and help for the newbie are much appreciated. I have the link below I am referencing. Thanks for any help guys!

http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=556355

Packman73

07-12-12, 20:04

Just zero @ 50yds and comfirm @ 200.

SpankMonkey

07-12-12, 20:17

Zero at 50 by adjusting your front sight for height and use the rear for windage.

Check your zero at 200, you should be GTG. Remember, anything under 50 yards will impact below your point of aim.

chollow2

07-12-12, 21:36

badness

07-12-12, 22:13

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=107572

fdxpilot

07-12-12, 23:19

So I can essentially use any of those 50/200 targets listed in the link I pasted as long as I zero them center mass at 50 yards? Just got confused by them all having different aim points and make me think I had to use a specific target.

If you want a 50yd zero and your target is at 50yds, any target will do. Adjust your sights so that your bullets hit where you are aiming, and you are zeroed. There is no need to make any height adjustment above or below the point of aim when you are shooting at your zero distance. They are only for trying to achieve a zero by shooting at a different distance (like trying to achieve a 50yd zero at a 25yd range.)

I use the standard zeroing targets you should find at any sporting goods store. They have a 1" grid, with a large bull in the center and small bulls in each of the 4 quadrants of the target.

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/medium/712/712957.jpg

$5 for 10 at Midway

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/712957/burris-target-12-x-12-package-of-10

chollow2

07-13-12, 07:09

fdxpilot

07-13-12, 10:32

I appreciate the replies guys. I guess I was just over thinking the whole thing, being a new shooter in the rifle community. Instead of going out and buying some targets I am just going to use this one listed below. Isn't this free downloadable target scaled down to simulate 50 yards while shooting from 25 yards?
http://home.comcast.net/~j_colt123/Improved%20M4_AR15%20Carbine%20Zero%20Target%2050M.pdf

However, as mentioned above, this target is designed to get a 50yd zero on a 25yd range. When used as designed, your Point of Aim should be at the Center of Mass of the black silhouette, and your Point of Impact will be in the circle. If you follow those instructions with the target at 50yds, you will be screwed, as your POA and POI should be the same spot, not different as specified on the target.

If you want something for free, get some targets from here that meet your needs.

http://www.targetz.com/

Failure2Stop

07-13-12, 13:28

1: There is no such thing as a 50/200 yard zero. This is a bit of an argument of semantics, but here goes: You can have a 50 yard zero with a pretty good guess of where you should be at 200, or you can have a 200 yard zero with a really good idea of exactly where you are hitting at 50. If you are zeroed precisely point of aim (POA) to correspond with point of impact (POI) at 50 yards, by the numbers alone you can be significantly off at 200 simply due to different ammunition, barrel length, optic height, and environmental conditions.

However... if you have a solid POA/POI at 200 yards, it is really easy to verify where you are hitting in relation to your sights at closer range. The problem is that zeroing at 200 is a pain in the ass if you have to walk 400 yards every time you want to check your group. If you have a 200-400 meter range available (which is the only reason that I can really have for wanting a 200 over a 100 meter zero), do a quick POA/POI at 50 before moving back to 200.

2: There is no "alternate" zeroing method that works as well as just shooting at the correct distance. If you want to download and print off all sorts of "aim here, hit there, be zeroed for x" targets, knock yourself out, but it's a self-licking icecream cone. If you shoot more than 6 shots at 25 in an attempt to get an actual 50 or 100 meter zero, your're just wasting ammo. That is, unless you only have a 25 yard/meter range.

3: I would normally recommend a 100 meter zero for an optic, but I like the path of the 200 meter zero better for iron sights. That being said, if you aren't shooting past 200 yards, a 100 meter zero will be easier and faster for everything inside 100 meters.

wrecks30

07-13-12, 13:54

BTW..Congrats on the new rifle, I have the same one, I love mine.

beprepared

07-13-12, 14:26

I have an ST-15 with a FSB and a Troy BUIS on the rear. When I got my rifle I zeroed it at 25 yards and then moved out to 50 yards as my final zero. This way I was on paper at 50 yards and felt comfortable with my rifle. I used the FSP for elevation and the rear for windage. I always use a rest or sand bag when I zero my weapons. This way my rifle is basically stable. After you get her zeroed, you can shoot off hand or prone or standing on your head. Main thing is that you are confident with your zero. I used a sight-in target, but you can really use any old target(s).

Its pretty simple once you get on paper, just adjust for elevation and windage. I'd recommend adjusting one thing at a time. 1st get your elevation locked in then move to you windage. Then you can fine tune her. IMO, if you adjust both at the same time you'll have a harder time. Make your adjustments in small increments, two or three clicks. I always send three or four shot down range before making any adjustments. This way you’re confident that you’re hitting in the same place b/c you'll probably muff a couple shots or jerk the trigger. I know I do.

You should zero your rifle with the same ammo (and grain) you plan on shooting. All ammo will have different POI even if it is the same grain. The POI may be a touch different, but when zeroing use the same ammo.

Like I said it is pretty easy, not rocket science. Just focus on breathing and trigger pull and let them fly! Congrats on the new rifle. Have fun and be safe!!

cpoth

07-13-12, 14:27

Plenty of folks here to get great advice from. I agree that I like to zero my rifle as best as possible at 200 yds and you should end up very close at 50. Best of luck with the setup. For some reason, my personal experience seems to have me hitting higher at 100 yds than 2 inches. Most likely something else going on - on my end of the gun.

fdxpilot, thanks for the info - I deleted any misleading information I posted.

fdxpilot

07-13-12, 15:05

Plenty of folks here to get great advice from. I agree that I like to zero my rifle as best as possible at 200 yds and you should end up very close at 50. In skimming the posts so far I did see someone mention that you will be low anywhere <50yds but I didn't see anyone mention that you will be significantly high at 100 yds (~6 inches). You may already know that, and I'm certain the other posters do as well, but I thought it may be worthwhile to mention. Best of luck with the setup.

Actually, if you zero to either 50yd or 200yds (close to each other but not exactly the same, as F2S mentioned above,) you will be within 2 in of POA all the way to about 250 yds. To me, that is the beauty of the 50 yd zero for anything other than a hunting rifle (I have my 6.8 hunting AR zeroed at 100yds.)

This graphic is borrowed from Molon's zeroing stickie at the top of this subforum.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/8xved8kfrm.jpg

chollow2

07-14-12, 07:10

Thanks alot for explaining everything to me guys. I really do appreciate it. I guess just being the first time I am going to try and zero a rifle I was just over thinking everything. I will post up results of my attempt Wednesday when my new toy arrives :p

TehLlama

07-14-12, 16:29

I usually just go out with a pad of graph paper, and do the quick math beforehand to figure out how many optic clicks at each distance are required to move one line on the graph paper - THEN write that onto the graph paper. Cheap targets.

The simplest idea behind the 50-200 concept is that you can get on paper and close faster at 50, get a usable zero there, then ideally get a very good zero at 200.
If you know you're on at 200, you're close enough for it to not matter at 50.

Lastly, when you're having a mental block about which way to turn an adjustment screw - remember that for the purposes of this, you were aiming at the correct spot, all your adjustment is doing is moving the impact point of the round to where you meant to hit.