View Full Version : advice on daughter's escape & evasion preps
Ready.Fire.Aim
07-13-12, 13:45
My adult daughter (24) is about to begin a one year+ stint as a Christian Missionary in Southern China. She has lived in Chinese provinces before, this is her first long assignment.
I am sending some basics to help her and her team leave in the event things were to get bad quick and she cant take a flight home. I dont expect it, just want to be able to provide options if they need to leave country on a land route south or southwest.
I would like your thoughts on other benign items she could take. my skills are limited to basic survival classes and living in field, never been through SERE or know anyone that has SF experience.
Obviously it is totalitarian country so she is limited on what she can have She and her small team are in excellent physical shape, they jog several miles a day. She has a good head in a crisis, can develop solutions and has the fundamentals of terrestrial navigation. She can read,write,speak Mandarin and is fluent in other languages. She has first aid certification and promised me she would complete a basic self defense class prior to leaving, she selected a Krav Maga class that I know nothing about.
Our plan would be to reach the border with India or Vietnam as primary route, Laos as a secondary, Myanmar as last choice. I wont share specifics on the internet but we do have rally points selected.
Prep items she is taking
1. Compass and general area map
2. Energy bars vacuum sealed
3. Water Purification straw.
4. She will get a cigarette lighter there
5. 14K Gold necklace with some 1/10 oz gold coins as charms to procure food, transportation, etc.
thanks for advice in advance from a dad who loves his daughter.
Post removed
Dude, that's just wrong to say to a father. :mad:
I have no idea whether she'd be allowed this in China or not, but printouts from Google Earth of the E&E routes would be very handy. Not only will it gove terrain features to use or avoid, but population center info as well.
Really this is Not TOS show some class:rolleyes: That's His Daughter
My friends that escaped from Vietnam said the two most valuable things were gold and a very good friend or relative you can trust to arrange for transport. After that you have to have your owns means for survival and face the risk of pirates/bandits. Whenever there are refugees there will bandits trying to intercept the main flow.
Boat owners would only accept 1 oz of gold per person for a boat position. They often oversold their boat capacity. If you did not absolutely know the boat owner or arranger, they often absconded with the prepaid gold bar. Once you start asking around for transport, you must stay on the move so you do not get turned in to the police. Boats were often less than promised. The government will try to intercept refugees, and aft that the bandits will swoop in. Same principles apply whether by boat, truck, or whatever.
If they have their own means of transport ahead of time they are light years ahead of other evacuees. Car, truck, motor scooter, bicycle, boat.
It is incredibly dangerous to try to evacuate from a third world country with dictatorial powers. Best bet is to evacuate early, before the horde. If they wait too long the dangers from govt and bandits go up dramatically. Once they start off they are on their own: no protection, no recourse to law, no resupply. If they can start early enough in a crisis they may be able to travel within the law, or close enough to be able to buy supplies and help openly.
Failure2Stop
07-13-12, 17:39
Good knives, backed by training.
I don't just mean "fighting".
Good knives save lives.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
mallowpufft
07-13-12, 18:00
Good knives, backed by training.
I don't just mean "fighting".
Good knives save lives.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
This. I don't know how big a knife she can bring in but an ESEE Izula worn on the neck with a firesteel and chunk of diamond hone will be darn handy for her to have on her at all times.
ESEE also makes small last ditch ceramic knife blades (think razor knife) that she and her team can stitch in clothing or belts.
A couple of companies also make small plastic buckles for "survival" bracelets that have removable plastic handcuff keys on them if she's really worried.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I847 using Tapatalk 2
Failure2Stop
07-13-12, 18:10
Oh, and a good multitool.
I've used mine for everything.
And a good high intensity/robust pocket flashlight. I personally like having two levels odd illum, but the general ability to push a lot of light while serving as a striking tool is really what the base concept is.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Brasilnuts
07-13-12, 18:12
Fitting in.
She needs to buy a set of local clothes when she gets there. Shoes, shirt, hat, pants, backpack...everything. Blending in with a crowd could save her life.
I used to live in Zambia and would go across the border into DRC regularly. I always carried a set of local clothes and black and brown shoe polish. I knew the shoe polish disguise wouldn't stand up under close scrutiny, but my white skin would give me away from a distance for sure.
+1 on the knife. I would go with a Seychelle Advanced water straw. They kill all the nasties in the water and filter up to 25 gallons. I would get her a fire steel as back up.
Oh, and a good multitool.
I've used mine for everything.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
I am surprised I didn't think of this earlier i was using one when I was weed eating they Have a blade in them and everything you Might need .
May be worth looking at a class like OnPoint's Urban Escape and Evasion.
A few other things I got from the class were (and some of these have been mentioned)
* Taking a baseline of locals and learning to fit in (clothes, gait, if she has light hair dying it black, etc)
* Having a map of the area with pre-plotted (multiple) routes out in case of an emergency
*Knowing where the closest (Western) medical facilities are located and how to get there
*Judiciously placed caches of important documents pre-placed along your escape routes (copies of important documents, i.e. passport, food, weapons, money, etc)
Obviously, the most important thing is mindset and not being in places she should not be
This. I don't know how big a knife she can bring in but an ESEE Izula worn on the neck with a firesteel and chunk of diamond hone will be darn handy for her to have on her at all times.
ESEE also makes small last ditch ceramic knife blades (think razor knife) that she and her team can stitch in clothing or belts.
A couple of companies also make small plastic buckles for "survival" bracelets that have removable plastic handcuff keys on them if she's really worried.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I847 using Tapatalk 2
As I guy who has lived, and traveled extensively out CONUS I am going to call the above post VERY BAD ADVICE. The police, or worse yet, secret police or military in most countries would find the above concealment methods and items to be prima facie evidence of smuggling at the least and espionage at the worst. Making this guys daughter even appear to be some kind of operator in a country like the PRC just isn't a good plan.
Cheap no brand, or locally available items are a much better route to go. Cheap kitchen knives can be sheathed in cardboard, tossed and reacquired on the local economy. A camping folder, especially a Chinese made camping folder is pretty innocuous. A handmade, U.S. sourced fighting knife, however, sends a pretty strong signal and not the signal she wants to send, if caught. As for the hidden handcuff key, absolutely not. Better she look like what she is, a missionary rather than a commando or spy.
Also, depending on where she is, E&E'ing to a large U.S. based corporation's local plant, or the consulate or embassy of any western country would be better than trying to do a surreptitious border crossing, again, making her either a smuggler or a spy if caught on either side of the fence.
mallowpufft
07-14-12, 12:05
As I guy who has lived, and traveled extensively out CONUS I am going to call the above post VERY BAD ADVICE. The police, or worse yet, secret police or military in most countries would find the above concealment methods and items to be prima facie evidence of smuggling at the least and espionage at the worst. Making this guys daughter even appear to be some kind of operator in a country like the PRC just isn't a good plan.
Cheap no brand, or locally available items are a much better route to go. Cheap kitchen knives can be sheathed in cardboard, tossed and reacquired on the local economy. A camping folder, especially a Chinese made camping folder is pretty innocuous. A handmade, U.S. sourced fighting knife, however, sends a pretty strong signal and not the signal she wants to send, if caught. As for the hidden handcuff key, absolutely not. Better she look like what she is, a missionary rather than a commando or spy.
Also, depending on where she is, E&E'ing to a large U.S. based corporation's local plant, or the consulate or embassy of any western country would be better than trying to do a surreptitious border crossing, again, making her either a smuggler or a spy if caught on either side of the fence.
I stand corrected. I'm not used to thinking of my Izula as a fighting knife. It's just a pocket knife to me but I can definitely see how it could be seen that way.
The handcuff key/buckles seem shady to have even here in the U.S. but I was just trying to put options out there. I'm not an expert for out of country so I will happily stand corected. I'm just a country boy who enjoys the challenge of spending a lot of time in the woods with the bare minimum of what I can fit in my pockets.
I was talking, today, to a buddy who has done something like this trip OP's daughter is talking about through an organization called World Race. I think it's a more short term program (only gone a yearish but spend a month or two at a time in places like PRC). You might check with them for any advice they give their people.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I847 using Tapatalk 2
In a bit of expansion on no-no items, many things we find innocuous and daily carry, are forbidden in other countries. The blade on a Gerber or Leatherman brand multi-tool may be too long, for instance. That and the number of tool items folded up may look very suspicious to an illiterate conscript, manning a checkpoint deep in the middle of BFE. In his mind, why would a missionary need these things. Maps, especially maps not locally sourced can easily be perceived the wrong way. Maps with notes on them in a "foreign" language that the above mentioned conscript can't read, even worse.
If I had kids and if I were looking for travel advice for my daughter's stay in the PRC, I would look to the DOS travel site for advice, the different Peace Corps sites and forums, and maybe some world traveler/backpacking sites and forums for region specific travel advice and recommendations but only after checking with her organization, which has sent people to this place, for the same purpose, repeatedly long before your daughter joined the mission. Their advice will be relevant and current, and most importantly, specific to her purpose and goals.
An alternative is to plot her escape to the nearest US embassy.
When traveling, I'm always cognizant of where the US Consulate is.
Also, make sure she establish contact with other NGOs in her area. The more friends the better.
A nice watch, they go a long ways for trading. I always figure most people are like fish and love shiny.
Most gold in China is 24k so 14 won't get very far.
I always carry a cartoon of American cigs, but I don't smoke. Also Johnny Walker is good for trading.
The perfect items for a missionary to carry through customs.:rolleyes:
Yes, we've all seen it too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSH6J2KKRsA
mallowpufft
07-14-12, 18:15
SSG... a lot of conservative American Christians don't smoke or drink. But other than the Mormons just about every Christian I have encountered abroad either smokes or drinks. I stayed at a Christian retreat center in Austria (Schloss Mittersill) that sold beer in the Canteen.
Not to mention that unless things have relaxed VERY recently Christianity is still a no go (other than state sponsored churches) in PRC so you can't really cross in to PRC and openly claim to be a missionary.
And then if you Google "Machine Gun Preacher" you can find a movie, based on fact, about a missionary in South Sudan who lead armed raids on Sudanese rebels (lord's something army) to rescue kidnapped children and supposedly slept with a Bible in one hand and an AK in the other.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I847 using Tapatalk 2
To stay low profile it might be good to develop some missionary work that involves tools useful for other purposes. Maybe some carpentry? Site surveying? Medical? Local transport fir food? Agricultural assistance?
Having medical kits, gps, machetes, cargo truck or even motor bikes would be handy for evacuation yet be useful tools for land clearing, village aid etc.
If they go strictly as preachers and teachers there is not much reason to have a bunch if "tools".
SeriousStudent
07-15-12, 01:11
The Lonely Planet guides can often contain some good information.
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/
I would also have her study up with a pair of good books, "Where There Is No Doctor" and "Where There Is No Dentist". You can find the PDF's online for free.
I will also strongly second the advice about US Embassy's and Consulates. It is a very, very good idea to check in with them, let them know where they are and will be, and follow their advice. If the staffers there know about something that could affect travelors, they will usually try to offer advice.
"Stay away from XYZ Square today, due to possible demonstrations, and resultant police responses."
I would really not recommend the cache ideas mentioned earlier. The Ministry of Public Security and Public Security Bureau will likely take a very active interest in that, as kmrtnsn mentioned. China is not a friendly place to foreigners. All of our people take extraordinary precautions when traveling there.
Congrats to your daughter, that she wishes to help others through such efforts. We will keep her in our prayers.
SeriousStudent
07-15-12, 01:14
Further thoughts:
Oh, and ANY electronic device she takes should be considered compromised. ANY communication she has with you from there should be considered monitored. Because it will be.
Have her buy a cheap Nokia phone there, and maybe a cheap laptop. Nokia's are really rugged, and she can sell it before she leaves. Do not take her own phone and laptop she uses here, unless you are willing to leave them there.
A lot of the filter straws don't filter out a lot of the nasties. The sawyer squeeze filter does though. It's $50 here (http://www.amazon.com/Sawyer-PointOne-Squeeze-Filter-System/dp/B005EHPVQW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330024277&sr=8-1) It might be a tad bigger than "straw" filters but it does screw in to typical water bottles/pop bottles. I have not used it but it is on my list. It seems perfect for travel though.
QuietShootr
07-31-12, 16:06
As I guy who has lived, and traveled extensively out CONUS I am going to call the above post VERY BAD ADVICE. The police, or worse yet, secret police or military in most countries would find the above concealment methods and items to be prima facie evidence of smuggling at the least and espionage at the worst. Making this guys daughter even appear to be some kind of operator in a country like the PRC just isn't a good plan.
Cheap no brand, or locally available items are a much better route to go. Cheap kitchen knives can be sheathed in cardboard, tossed and reacquired on the local economy. A camping folder, especially a Chinese made camping folder is pretty innocuous. A handmade, U.S. sourced fighting knife, however, sends a pretty strong signal and not the signal she wants to send, if caught. As for the hidden handcuff key, absolutely not. Better she look like what she is, a missionary rather than a commando or spy.
Also, depending on where she is, E&E'ing to a large U.S. based corporation's local plant, or the consulate or embassy of any western country would be better than trying to do a surreptitious border crossing, again, making her either a smuggler or a spy if caught on either side of the fence.
THIS guy has the right of it. If you're not going to listen to advice like "Going to places like that without actual training and backup is really stupid, and Jesus won't protect you just because you're there to 'do good works', that is.
Further thoughts:
Oh, and ANY electronic device she takes should be considered compromised. ANY communication she has with you from there should be considered monitored. Because it will be.
Have her buy a cheap Nokia phone there, and maybe a cheap laptop. Nokia's are really rugged, and she can sell it before she leaves. Do not take her own phone and laptop she uses here, unless you are willing to leave them there.
Good advice. A friend of mine goes to China regularly on business. He buys a laptop when he arrives and throws it away before he leaves. He says here WILL be government malware on everything you use.
I just read an article today about international travel tips for female travelers. It is mostly advice on the subject from a former special ops guy. Here is the link http://www.theblaze.com/stories/top-tips-for-international-trips-and-female-travelers-from-a-former-special-ops-guy/
Good advice. A friend of mine goes to China regularly on business. He buys a laptop when he arrives and throws it away before he leaves. He says here WILL be government malware on everything you use.
Plus, if you choose to bring your expensive equipment out of country then it may cost a lot for bribes to customs. I have two co-workers that had to pay $200 and $300 as bribes to get their corporate issued laptops out of Mexico and India. buying local and planning to leave it there will simplify things and save money most likely.
What sort of on location transportation will be made available to them?
Does your daughter have experience riding a motorcycle? If I were in that situation, I'd immediately purchase a cheap Chinese 100-250cc motorcycle. Bikes and small motos/moped/scooters are extremely common.
A group of foreigners in a vehicle are going to draw attention. Another of the masses riding a motorcycle in local clothes may get a lot further, if need be.
Prayers for your daughter.
Edit - A good primer on what travel would be like via moto can be found at this website www.advrider.com
Go to "Ride Reports" and hit the "search this forum" and enter "china".
Something to be aware of, especially in communist countries, is the neighborhood stoolies. Your daughter and her team have got to be extremely circumspect of any talk or actions that could draw suspicion that they are making or have made any preps to bug out in an emergency or do any other non-govt-approved actions.
Most likely anyone assigned to them as guides, interpreters, or household or project help is making reports to local govt on their activities, talk, travels, and equipment. Once in country they should behave and talk only about their immediate work and leisure; any alternate plans or preps should be discussed before leaving US.
Avoid having anything that could raise suspicions or "tariffs" on entry or exit, have a missionary work cover for any prep tools and supplies, and buy anything extra such as scooters, bicycles, hand tools, food, etc locally. It would be very difficult to have much extra food, compared to the locals as that would raise suspicions as well.
All in all, they are choosing to serve God in a very tightly controlled country that is absolutely intolerant of non-govt controlled religions or organizations. There are always a few things that can be done to prep for disasters and such, but if they do or say anything out of the ordinary for people in her line of work they will become suspect, which is the worse thing if things go haywire. Stay absolutely within the law. Friendly relationships will be more valuable than a tool or provisions that risk suspicion.
If a trigger event happens then they need to act with extreme opsec, or take their chances with friendly locals. I would not want to be in a position of trying to illegally bug out in a country that large with such tight govt oversight and control, and severe consequences. God bless.
Voodoo_Man
08-02-12, 16:55
+1 for a good multi-tool and a knife or three.
Training is very important since just carrying a knife is almost pointless if you do not know how to use it.
The biggest impact to her safety is her ability to blend into her surroundings if required. She should not dress out of local norms, or do anything that would get attention to herself, which includes going out with others that do not have the same mindset. Foreigners, specifically Americans, in different countries do not know how to act correctly because of the norms they have lived with and freedoms in the US. So when going abroad to study or otherwise, specific things need to not be done. She should take a few days when she gets there and people watch, see what girls her age are wearing, how they are acting in public and what is expected of her. Then she needs to act accordingly.
Aside from that (since that is mostly mental stuff) she needs to do the standard "safety" and situational awareness stuff. Not going home the same way. Not waking up at the same time every day, etc...
I just read an article today about international travel tips for female travelers. It is mostly advice on the subject from a former special ops guy. Here is the link http://www.theblaze.com/stories/top-tips-for-international-trips-and-female-travelers-from-a-former-special-ops-guy/
If you go to the source article, one of the pieces of advice is this:
Urinating or soiling yourself in the event of an impending attack may be a deterrent.
Hell, that's probably true but I can't stop laughing.
My adult daughter (24) is about to begin a one year+ stint as a Christian Missionary in Southern China.
...
thanks for advice in advance from a dad who loves his daughter.
Missionary work is ILLEGAL in China. And no, I am not kidding. Have your daughter write "proselytizing Christian beliefs" on her Chinese visa application and see what happens.
Your daughter can GOT TO PRISON in China for missionary work. ALthough that is not likely, it is possible.
So I assume your daughter is using a cover story, like being a teacher, as her reason for being there. I have lived in and travelled extensively through China and I have seen this before. It is a really bad idea. But I suppose your daughter is bound and determined to do it and Chinese law be damned.
The Chinese police are pretty efficient at finding people they want. So your daughter's only hope of E&E if the Chinese police are after her is going cross country through roadless areas. All forms of public transportation will be off limits or she will be caught. Basically, your daughter either needs to walk south to Vietnam/Laos/Burma (and cross the border will not be easy), or she needs to walk to the coast, and bribe some fishermen to take her out to meet a Taiwanese fishing boat that will take her to Taiwan. Either way your daughter is going to be walking a few hundred miles. Yeah. Your daughter better be really ugly, or female companionship may be enjoyed by men who help her along thew way, willing or otherwise.
Can your daughter surive in the jungle for weeks without supplies? Has she ever done it? No. You were talking about energy bars. I doubt she is carrying a 90 day supply of energy bars with her. Can she navigate from one side of the Bob Marshall Wilderness Area to the other without a map or compass? No. ****ing forget the E&E. It is not going to happen.
Keep in mind that Chinese people are very nosy and everyone knows everyone else's business. China is a former police state and they are used to informing on each other. So your daughter needs to be invisible and whiteys in China are not invisible.
Your daughter will also need large amounts of cash in local currencies to make good her escape. I would say a minimum of 100,000 renminbi plus about US10K each in Vietnamese and Taiwan currency. The gold helps. But it won't matter. The police will steal that money from her.
Overall I would say your daughter's best bet is to stay home and avoid breaking Chinese law. This will not be like a Matt Damon movie.
Now go pray that your daughter changes her mind.
Here is some info on how the Chinese police will torture your daughter if she is caught:
http://chinaview.wordpress.com/2007/03/29/list-of-china-modern-torture-methods-photo/
Please allow me to repeat that your daughter's trip to China is a really bad idea.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3PiMWiXI5ks/ShK_iIb_8-I/AAAAAAAAATk/58edHFxNe20/s400/gao_rongrong_3_photos_torture%255B1%255D.jpg
Sorry to keep posting but I am just about jumping out of my skin thinking about your daughter.
You mention Vietnam, Laos and Burma. Is your daughter a fantastic swimmer? She will need to be in order to cross rivers to expand her escape options. If there is someone on the run, the bridges will be guarded.
And Chinese drivers no longer pick up foreign hitch hikers like they did in the 1980s because a lot of them have gotten in hot water doing it.
Carrying a knife is the equivalent of a felony offense in China. But I carry one anyway. Does your daughter know how to fight with a knife? No. Basic self defense course? Forget it. Either she spends 2 years x 5 yours per day learning and practicing hand to hand combat or she hasn't got a chance. The chinese cops may not look like much with those baggy green uniforms, but they practice a bunch of joint lock stuff.
And in the wilderness, China has had robbers for the past 5000 years and it still has them today.
Now try this on for size:
Two Chinese American missionaries were missing and at least four Christians remained detained Monday, July 13, following a police raid on a church in China's volatile Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region
And...
The parents of an American college student, who went missing in China nearly eight years ago, are now certain he is being held in North Korea...
Why? Because he helped smuggle DPRK refugees out through China's southern border. And that is illegal.
Hmmm....
[QUOTE=Voodoo_Man;1361132.
The biggest impact to her safety is her ability to blend into her surroundings if required. ...[/QUOTE]
Completely impossible. Even American born Chinese have a different look than local Chinese in various parts of China. Blending in is not an option. I have been to places in China where the people had never seen a foreigner. Just how do you blend in there??
Also, the posters above are correct that every form of communication in China is compromised.
Sorry to post yet again. But I wanted to mention that maps printed in China are not accurate. All maps are approved by the PLA. The PLA modifies maps to make them inaccurate because they are afraid someone will buy a map in a bookstore and use it to invade China. Stupid, yes, but we are talking about China.
Also, India? Is your daughter going to walk from Guangxi province to the border with India? She woudl be lucky to make it there alive if she had a support team providing her with supplies and gear without police pursuit. That is like walking across both France and Germany. Since Tibet is locked down pretty tight, she would have to walk through Qinghai province (try to miss the swamp). And remember, she cannot use roads...
I hope your daughter will survive her trip.
Sir (OP),
You may not enjoy this post, but I intend no offense.
Historic orthodox (small o) Christianity understood as normative that females (one can find certain exceptions; that is the reason I speak of normative) operate under the provision and protection of a man. That man is either the father, or the husband. Within that paradigm, there is no suggestion whatsoever that there is some inherent lack of quality or dignity for a woman; just the opposite. (One does not see all of the protection rendered to the British Crown jewels and then obtain the impression that it is due to some dearth of value.) Historic orthodox Christianity also understands that females are not granted pastoral authority (reference Paul in 1 Timothy 2:12, one of the "Pastoral" Epistles.)
The best "survival" or SERE plan given the context would be to have a husband (and all that entails regarding provision and protection), or do not go. At least one of those options is not impossible. As I said, my answer is probably unpalatable, but it is rendered in the context of the stated Christian purpose of the trip.
elephantrider
08-31-12, 21:44
I would say look into kidnap and rescue insurance, but the problem with the PRC is that the Gov't is the main threat.
I would suggest doing your/her homework so that she is not associating with any people, groups, or places for which she could run afoul of the Chinese authorities. China isn't the worst place in the world to be, but the gov't isn't too keen on basic human rights. You are ultimately at their mercy.
Reagans Rascals
08-31-12, 21:54
something I recently made.... it's a little Batmanish... but it'll sure get you out of a building quick...
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t403/jwmassaro/photo.jpg
All hardware is all rated for climbing with exception of the grappling hook (added for dramatic effect and not actually life saving)
The line is 1/8th AmSteel (http://www.samsonrope.com/index.cfm?rope=192), able to hold 2500 pounds, and the spool contains a little over 70 feet of it.
I know it seems like a gimmick.... but rest assured... the entire assembly will fit in your pocket or purse and the belt is just a standard riggers belt.... the entire package could be EDC'd and used in the event she needs to flee from a 2nd or 3rd floor of a building... whether be it from fire, active shooter, or even possible kidnapping attempt...
I have completely replaced all of my 550 cordage with Amsteel..... you can get it in 7/64th's which is almost half the width of 550 cord, so you can carry almost twice as much, but the AmSteel can hold 1600 pounds.... as opposed to 550...
testing video of AmSteel strength...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcifJkhXpMM
I've personally used the rig in the picture to go out of a 4th floor window (with secondary climbing ropes during initial testing for safety) and it worked flawlessly... as long as the line has constant tension and isn't shock loaded, you're golden...
just some outside of the box ideas to get those wheels in your head turning... in a pinch... something like this could save her life..
You used that from a 4th story window using just the belt, no harness or swiss seat? I couldnt imagine descending without gloves either, if it was part of everyday preps Id have to include a pair of Petzls.
You used that from a 4th story window using just the belt, no harness or swiss seat? I couldnt imagine descending without gloves either, if it was part of everyday preps Id have to include a pair of Petzls.
He did say he used safety ropes during testing...
Having lived and traveled in numerous countries throughout the world I'll say this. If you are entering countries like China and others that are not free and open you are taking a big risk carrying or bringing anything into country that is suspect.
I have seen people get detained and hassled over GPS's simply because the entity that was checking didn't like it, wanted it as a gift or was suspicious.
If you enter China with same Bat-belt looking thing like above I can all but guarantee someone is going to take notice and pull you aside.
Some countries actually have xray and metal detectors in the airport before you clear customs and leave the airport and they are looking for anything suspicous.
Reagans Rascals
09-02-12, 00:00
You used that from a 4th story window using just the belt, no harness or swiss seat? I couldnt imagine descending without gloves either, if it was part of everyday preps Id have to include a pair of Petzls.
Its a riggers belt.... that I wear every day.... and as for gloves... if you didn't have any on hand and it was a life or death emergency, you'd probably be wearing socks that you can take off and use... just thinking out side the box...
Reagans Rascals
09-02-12, 00:02
Having lived and traveled in numerous countries throughout the world I'll say this. If you are entering countries like China and others that are not free and open you are taking a big risk carrying or bringing anything into country that is suspect.
I have seen people get detained and hassled over GPS's simply because the entity that was checking didn't like it, wanted it as a gift or was suspicious.
If you enter China with same Bat-belt looking thing like above I can all but guarantee someone is going to take notice and pull you aside.
Some countries actually have xray and metal detectors in the airport before you clear customs and leave the airport and they are looking for anything suspicous.
I completely agree, however its something he could possible send to her through UPS or Fedex.... as long as you don't go walking through the airport with your Batman belt on I think you'd be ok...
I didn't post it as a DIY or a have-to-have... I just posted it to give him some ideas...
I completely agree, however its something he could possible send to her through UPS or Fedex.... as long as you don't go walking through the airport with your Batman belt on I think you'd be ok...
I didn't post it as a DIY or a have-to-have... I just posted it to give him some ideas...
She could also learn to hasty rappel with simply an ordinary rope. No descender, riggers belt, or carabiners required. Just a pair of work gloves.
QuietShootr
09-02-12, 00:09
Missionary work is ILLEGAL in China. And no, I am not kidding. Have your daughter write "proselytizing Christian beliefs" on her Chinese visa application and see what happens.
Your daughter can GOT TO PRISON in China for missionary work. ALthough that is not likely, it is possible.
So I assume your daughter is using a cover story, like being a teacher, as her reason for being there. I have lived in and travelled extensively through China and I have seen this before. It is a really bad idea. But I suppose your daughter is bound and determined to do it and Chinese law be damned.
The Chinese police are pretty efficient at finding people they want. So your daughter's only hope of E&E if the Chinese police are after her is going cross country through roadless areas. All forms of public transportation will be off limits or she will be caught. Basically, your daughter either needs to walk south to Vietnam/Laos/Burma (and cross the border will not be easy), or she needs to walk to the coast, and bribe some fishermen to take her out to meet a Taiwanese fishing boat that will take her to Taiwan. Either way your daughter is going to be walking a few hundred miles. Yeah. Your daughter better be really ugly, or female companionship may be enjoyed by men who help her along thew way, willing or otherwise.
Can your daughter surive in the jungle for weeks without supplies? Has she ever done it? No. You were talking about energy bars. I doubt she is carrying a 90 day supply of energy bars with her. Can she navigate from one side of the Bob Marshall Wilderness Area to the other without a map or compass? No. ****ing forget the E&E. It is not going to happen.
Keep in mind that Chinese people are very nosy and everyone knows everyone else's business. China is a former police state and they are used to informing on each other. So your daughter needs to be invisible and whiteys in China are not invisible.
Your daughter will also need large amounts of cash in local currencies to make good her escape. I would say a minimum of 100,000 renminbi plus about US10K each in Vietnamese and Taiwan currency. The gold helps. But it won't matter. The police will steal that money from her.
Overall I would say your daughter's best bet is to stay home and avoid breaking Chinese law. This will not be like a Matt Damon movie.
Now go pray that your daughter changes her mind.
I take back the mean shit I said in the other thread. You have redeemed yourself, sir.
Reagans Rascals
09-02-12, 00:11
She could also learn to hasty rappel with simply an ordinary rope. No descender, riggers belt, or carabiners required. Just a pair of work gloves.
and where does that rope come from? Is she going to carry 70-80 feet of rope with her wherever she goes?
The spool of AmSteel I had in the picture contains around 76 feet, weighs less than 1 pound and can fit in the cargo pocket of a pair of pants, even more so a purse...
QuietShootr
09-02-12, 00:18
and where does that rope come from? Is she going to carry 70-80 feet of rope with her wherever she goes?
The spool of AmSteel I had in the picture contains around 76 feet, weighs less than 1 pound and can fit in the cargo pocket of a pair of pants, even more so a purse...
Where'd you get that from? and the mini-8, too.
Missionary work is ILLEGAL in China. And no, I am not kidding. Have your daughter write "proselytizing Christian beliefs" on her Chinese visa application and see what happens.
Your daughter can GOT TO PRISON in China for missionary work. ALthough that is not likely, it is possible.
Although it pretains nothing to the OP's questions, I've got to ask...how did she get involved with this "mission"? What's her motivations? And so on...I'd love to know the background story.
Reagans Rascals
09-02-12, 00:26
Where'd you get that from? and the mini-8, too.
I built it.... I bought the AmSteel from a company called Redden Marine Supply (http://www.reddenmarine.com/samson-rope-amsteel-blue-1-8-foot-black.html) online.... as they were the only company with AmSteel Black in stock..
The spool setup is just a standard 31kn Locking Carabiner, I took a spool used to wrap wire cut it on one side and slid it over the carabiner, secured the line to the carabiner itself with a bowline/overhand combo and then just spooled it up....
I got the descender and carabiner from REI, the riggers belt from 215 Gear....
the entire setup cost around $150...
like I said... I have replaced all of my 550 cordage with AmSteel... it holds a considerable amount more weight, it floats and doesn't absorb water, its very abrasion resistant.... it dulled my knife 6 times trying to cut it so I had to get razors... its made of Dyneema... its burn resistant unlike 550 cord that bubbles and pools up, the list just goes on... if you carry 550 cord just incase... why not just carry 1600 or 2500 cord that's smaller and lighter...
yeah its more expensive... but you get what you pay for.... I have even managed to replace the guts of my Desert Tan 550 cord with AmSteel so it looks and acts just like 550 cord... but holds 1600 pounds...that would just be for people who want the different color options of 550 cord, plus you get a little added abrasion resistance..
QuietShootr
09-02-12, 00:36
I have completely replaced all of my 550 cordage with Amsteel..... you can get it in 7/64th's which is almost half the width of 550 cord, so you can carry almost twice as much, but the AmSteel can hold 1600 pounds.... as opposed to 550...
testing video of AmSteel strength...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcifJkhXpMM
Holy****.
Getting me some of that.
Oh, it's Dyneema. That makes sense.
Ready.Fire.Aim
09-03-12, 01:29
Although it pretains nothing to the OP's questions, I've got to ask...how did she get involved with this "mission"? What's her motivations? And so on...I'd love to know the background story.
She has a quiet but very strong fire inside her to serve our Lord, she has had it since she was a little girl and it never wavered. She also has enthusiastic support from her mainstream protestant congregation. When she made the decision, (although we regularly attend our little church) her decision shocked and concerned us. We tried many times talking her out of it, ensuring she knew the risks.
Initially my wife and I couldn't have children. After about three years, my wife prayed and asked that if she could have one child, she would give her/him back to serve our Lord as an adult. She never told anyone until last year. My wife shared her story of prayer with us long after my daughters commitment to missionary work. May sound hokey but it is a true story. My wife deeply worries but sincerely believes her prayer was answered and is committed to supporting her.
She is 24, single and had previously taught school. This is her third and longest trip to China. The past two trips she influenced four to six on each trip to open their hearts. To be candid she loves the Chinese people. She is fluent with the language and is respectful so they tend to be curious and friendly. Also she is a curiosity, most Chinese have never seen a foreignor and fair white skin is considered beautiful. Often they will come touch her skin and hair. She also has done several short mission trips in the USA. I hope this is her last overseas mission trip, she has a nice steady boyfriend back home and the worry for her safety wears one down.
She has assimilated well in her location, is getting to know locals and their customs. Currently she is spending time in an orphanage with the kids and taking Mandarin classes to correctly pronounce the local dialect. She will soon be teaching English to adults.
I certainly appreciate all of the advice and prayers. Also the concerns shared were read with understanding, none were a shock, I am fully aware and worry and pray nightly. I know what a totalitarian govt like the PRC is capable of and pray I never become more familiar.
She is very aware of Opsec, was trained how not to upset the authorities, knows her cell phone is tracked even if it is off -if the battery is installed. We were careful of what E&E items to take and were limited to tourist type gear. She went to special training schools simulating life in a hostile 3rd world country 7/24. Her emails avoid certain words and she know she is or can be watched. There is no blending in for a fair white skin, blue eyed, blonde. Although small framed for a US woman, she is HUGE compared to Chinese. She is 5'5", very fit, weighs 121, and can't find local clothes to fit.
One item we acted upon was having contact info for all consulates friendly to US in China, not just USA and also water purification straws instead of tablets. She took basic needs for water, food, sufficient currency to travel quickly to get out if tensions rise.
She is not Special Ops, just needed advice on what to take to move quick and fast. The plan is to get out fast to a friendly destination if a conflict starts to escalate. Return trip home fare is not an issue, she knows to leave via plane, train, bus, oxcart, etc, while exit routes are open and not sneaking across borders like some envision, leave that to SF. I will post photos what she took after she returns, I took photos of some key items to share.
Our nephew is on his third tour as a Marine carrying a rifle in Afghanistan. Our daughter chose to carry a bible instead of a rifle as her form of service. Also FYI, followers of Islam are also diligently working hard to expand and fill the void in China with their version of hope.
Respectfully, from a dad who loves his daughter
God bless your daughter and your family. She is a brave soul.
Good luck to her, and she will
Be in my prayers tonight.
Respectfully, from a dad who loves his daughter
Thank you for giving us all an update.
Call me an alarmist, but if your daughter needs an E&E plan, then what she is doing is too illegal and too dangerous. Therefore I will suggest at this time that you attempt to convince her to discontinue her activity and come home before she gets caught. It just isn't worth it for your daughter to be arrested and have her body broken, health ruined, and to carry emotional scars forever from what the Chinese police do to persons engaged in activities which are deemed to be a threat to the continued rule of the Communist Party. Your daughter could use her Mandarin skills to proselytize in Taiwan.
Hoping she will be ok...
This whole thread reminds me of that movie Spy Games with Robert Redford.
Good luck to your daughter.
Hope this worked out fine in the end.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.