View Full Version : Shopping for a SWAT School
Long Story Short...
I am the Lt. of a part-time municipal PD SWAT Team.
My Chief is willing to pony up the cash to send the team to a week long (+) training school anywhere in the Country. He would like to actually SEND the team somewhere vs having an instructor come out to our location. This is for various reasons, but I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth.
I am aware of the many "individual skill" trainers/schools out there, but am starting my reaserch for SWAT specific training.
Any suggestions, recommendations or AVOID's for me?
Thanks.
Oh, how I envy and hate you so much.
Off the top of my head, I'd look at:
LMS Defense (lmsdefense.com)(I hear Chappy also has a great low light/NVG program, if that's your thing)
Scott Reitz's ITTS (http://www.internationaltactical.com)
Direct Action Resource Center (www.darc1.com)(also has a legendary counter-terrorism/multi-cell response course)
CSAT (http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/) (can't go wrong with Paul Howe, plus he has lodging on site)
Snipercraft (http://www.snipercraft.org/)
NTOA, your state or regional SWAT association, or your state DOJ, may all have low to no cost training as well. Shoot for the moon, but many of these outfits (NTOA in particular) can be good.
Find a place that will work on individual skills (shooting, low light, etc), small team (2-4 guys) skills, and whole team or element problems, from exterior operations (movement to breach point, porting and breaching, gas, etc) to post incident issues (officer down, casevac, debriefing, legal issues). Try to walk away with a blueprint of what your team's been doing well, where your team needs improvement, and how to proceed from there on an individual (marksmanship, PT, tactics) and team (TEMS, CNT, training time) level. Getting the whole team to a training would be HUGE; that way the lessons learned don't get lost in translation when you bring them home, and so team members who are reluctant to embrace new concepts get them from the source. Also look at a command school for the TOC personnel (which unfortunately may include you).
Good luck, congrats, and, again, I envy you.
Oh, how I envy and hate you so much.
Off the top of my head, I'd look at:
LMS Defense (lmsdefense.com)
Scott Reitz's ITTS (http://www.internationaltactical.com)
Direct Action Resource Center (www.darc1.com)(also has a legendary counter-terrorism/multi-cell response course)
CSAT (http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/) (can't go wrong with Paul Howe, plus he has lodging on site)
Snipercraft (http://www.snipercraft.org/)
NTOA, your state or regional SWAT association, or your state DOJ, may all have low to no cost training as well. Shoot for the moon, but many of these outfits (NTOA in particular) can be good.
Good luck, congrats, and, again, I envy you.
Thanks..the Chief has some asset forfeiture cash he wants to spend so he can say "I sent my guys to one of the best schools". I want to get on providing him with numbers ASAP..before he changes his mind. :)
My team (part time) is now sending our guys to Minneapolis' Basic SWAT (5 days). I went a few years ago and was very impressed. Very much a tactics school, with only a few hours of range work. Field searches, warrant service, call outs, tubular assaults, vehicle assaults, FSDDs, etc. They are a non bunker team and teach it as such, but go through how to adapt their TTPs to bunkers. Very thorough, with a group of good instructors.
I'm sure you'll get recommendations for CSATs school, also one I'd like to go to eventually. Mostly, I'd recommend against anything sold as a shooting school - look for (relatively) low round count schools. My opinion is that unless the SWAT school is more than a week, there is not time to teach both tactics and shooting sufficiently.
My team (part time) is now sending our guys to Minneapolis' Basic SWAT (5 days).
Do you have a link or point of contact you can PM me? We have 2 new guys coming on as soon as next month, and maybe 3 more by the end of this year. This sounds like a good one.
I also recall that LA Sheriffs Office occasionally hosts a school, if that's close to you.
Any opinions/experience with “ACADEMI” which used to be “US Training Center” which used to be “Xi” which used to be “Blackwater”?
http://www.academi.com/training-courses/course-title/26/overview
Direct Action Resource Center (www.darc1.com)(also has a legendary counter-terrorism/multi-cell response course)
They have a local campus here and occasionally let folks come in as opfor. I've had the chance to run against combat controllers, swat teams, jtacs, marines and various others. And am good friends with some guys that went through the courses during their time in the marines. From everyone I've talked to the guys at DARC are pretty dialed in.
Do you have a link or point of contact you can PM me? We have 2 new guys coming on as soon as next month, and maybe 3 more by the end of this year. This sounds like a good one.
Pm sent. Downside: only offered twice a year, both in May, so no more this year.
What do you mean by "SWAT School", and what do you want it to contain? A basic school that baby-steps tactical skills in the team environment; a tactical-in-a-can type? Does it need op planning and risk assessment components, or just the entry/searching/shooting skills?
If you have a PT team now, what skill sets are you most lacking? What do you NEED the most?
Rather than combined team training, what if you sent portions of your team to different areas of emphasis, and redelivered the info locally?
I might also rethink training elsewhere. You are likely to get more bang for your buck bringing people in. For the cost of putting a whole team on the road, you could likely bring a couple of bigger names in for twice the training hours.
Your nickel though.
As much as I hate to say it, but I thought that the FBI SWAT school was pretty good. The lead instructor that taught the one I attended had spent a significant amount of time on HRT and overseas. He was very knowledgable and not your stereotypical pompous FBI prick. Dependent on where you are located, they might have an enhanced team near you that could put a class on for you.
I have not attended the CSAT school, but I can imagine you would be hard pressed to find anyone who wouldn't recommend Paul Howe.
DANGER CLOSE
07-21-12, 16:41
+1 on the FBI Swat school. Our Lt's went and said it was excellent training.
Bluedreaux
07-22-12, 00:40
I had some friends go through the CSAT course and were very impressed. I'd steer clear of a basic school hosted by the Texas Tactical POA, they're very classroom-liability based. The advanced course was outstanding though.
I'd also highly recommend Max Joseph at TFTT. I've not taken a SWAT class from him, but have taken two shooting classes and a tactics course (Dignitary Protection). Max is a great instructor and all of his courses have been top notch. I'd expect his SWAT class to be great too.
TG, what part of the country are you in?
TG, what part of the country are you in?
Western NY.
Las Vegas Metro, Albuquerque NM, LA County SO, and Mesa PD all run SWAT Schools for minimal cost. Most large agencies will run SWAT courses for minimal cost to the students. That way the training is coming from an actual agency instead of a private company.
If you are seeking a private course, I would look at CSAT or VTAC.
Thanks for the feedback both in thread and via PM folks, its much appreciated. This will probably be a 2013 budget year issue so Im in research mode right now.
A few people are mentioning SWAT basic schools..perhaps I should clarify some of the details:
-We are already SWAT basic certified. Our County Tactical Task Force runs a pretty good school. Additionally, our breachers have attended the breachers symposium, snipers have attended FBI advanced school and Snipercraft and individual members have gone to some advanced schools. I'm a newly minted team Lt (newly assigned to SWAT that is, but I have been a patrol/narcotics Lt for over 4 years now. I was on SWAT as a patrolman.) and am still shopping for some more training for myself.
-Our Chief has voiced a desire to ship the team out for training. I get the impression that it is intended as an "attaboy" and as a morale building event more than him believing that we have a training need. There is some merit in the idea that road-tripping as a team does payoff as a team building exercise and Im not about to let the opportunity to get some training pass.
-That being said, discussions with my team sergeants have centered on the "SWAT training" vs "individual training" issue. In other words, do we pay for "Advanced SWAT" classes or do we go for Carbine/Pistol courses? Im kind of leaning toward the Carbine/Pistol courses because historically...while we always pick up something of value at them...many of the advanced courses teach techniques and protocols that we rarely take on "whole cloth". There is also the overhead of organizing classes for the snipers, entry team, medic, etc over the course of our trip.
We tend to send individual operators in small groups to "tactical classes" and they bring back what they were taught and we then see what/how we will incorporate from it. If anything. I think that individual skill training would be the way to go. But I am open to suggestions and willing to have my mind changed on the subject.
Bluedreaux
07-29-12, 10:13
You just mentioned an issue that was going to bring up.
A problem with having another agency train you is that they're going to teach "their way" of doing things. We sent some guys to an advanced school where they spent days practicing a breech and hold technique where you control nearly all of a house from outside through all the windows you just broke out. Something we didn't have the manpower or agency support for. It was cool, but useless to us.
A good private company could do more to teach you to make the most of what you have and are allowed to do.
How many cats in your herd?
How far would you travel?
How many cats in your herd?
How far would you travel?
20...
Chief says "anywhere"....CONUS of course. :)
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
Phoenix also has a program that's outstanding. Shoot me a PM if you need details and contact info.
you can give a call down to Academi they do custum classes for teams all the time. i'm going to be conducting my 3rd. custom course for a swat team this coming fall at Academi. this is this teams 5th or 6th custom class. i think you need at least 7 people. any questions you can hit me off line.
tony d
I'm torn...
On one hand, you have what appears to be an incredibly supportive and proactive Chief, willing to invest considerable time and expense in your team, it's knowledge base, and cohesiveness.
On the other, you're pouring all that energy into one opportunity, which is of significant expense and effort. It's effect is likely more short-term. Sending staff out to bring skills home, or bringing people in and including others, may have more longer term effect.
Either way, grab that ball and go like heck. You're in a seriously enviable position.
Long Story Short...
I am the Lt. of a part-time municipal PD SWAT Team.
My Chief is willing to pony up the cash to send the team to a week long (+) training school anywhere in the Country. He would like to actually SEND the team somewhere vs having an instructor come out to our location. This is for various reasons, but I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth.
I am aware of the many "individual skill" trainers/schools out there, but am starting my reaserch for SWAT specific training.
Any suggestions, recommendations or AVOID's for me?
Thanks.
Contact Mike Odle at LEAD consultants:
http://www.leadconsultants.org/page5/page7/index.html
He'll either be able to directly assist, or give best advice on how and where to proceed with best use of department funds to best help your team.
+1 on CSAT, Paul is a great instructor and has developed a great system.
Still doing my research, but on another note ...the Chief is letting us travel to Camp Lejeune for the USMC "SWAT Round-Up" in late Sept. Anyone ever attended this, or know someone who has?
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
Still doing my research, but on another note ...the Chief is letting us travel to Camp Lejeune for the USMC "SWAT Round-Up" in late Sept. Anyone ever attended this, or know someone who has?
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
The competition? I have some years back, but as a vendor & coach type vs competitor not being LEO.
I believe 3d largest comp of it's kind, the CT SWAT challenge (which gets teams from all over the country now) is one I have been to more recently and it's always well attended and liked might be one to consider for the future. Web site:
http://www.ctswatchallenge.com/
Vids I have made from prior years at this event:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2FDBE7FA35A4FBF3&feature=plcp
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