View Full Version : Has anyone shaved down their LMT Mrp rails....paging trident
I am considering shaving down the rails on a "legacy" lmt mrp chasis. Don't get me wrong I like the new lm8 chasis, but I like the vent hole design better on the legacy system compared to the slanted design on the new one. I like the newer trend of running slick and attaching rail sections where needed.
I have seen pics of Barry Dueck's lmt chasis with the shaved rails and that's what I'm looking to do but keep the top rail and maybe the first 3 inches (toward the muzzle) for light attachment and maintain the forward sling points. In the end it should look a lot like the new giessele rail.
My question for trident or others, are the holes (the little holes spaced periodically apart on the rails themselves) threaded to except attachments? IE could I shave the rail down and attach a pic section for a light attachment etc...
Anybody else done this besides Barry?
I'll probably get some people cringing at this but I've been contemplating doing something similar to this with a standard (not monolithic) rail. Not a drastic alteration like Barry's,
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac279/jaxman7/BarryDueck_header.jpg
but just the sides where my hands grab onto the rail and 3-4 recoil grooves fore and aft of my hand placement. The cut would only be just enough to remove the grooves protruding above the base so structurally it wouldn't hurt a thing. Only thing keeping me from doing it is I need someone who can do it professionally and once its done that rail will probably be mine forever.
-Jax
Agreed, the hard part would be finding a machine shop that could do it correctly and not cost an arm and a leg....
ICANHITHIMMAN
07-18-12, 22:04
Find a pic I want to see it
This topic is one that I don't even think about anymore as I'd spend all day spinning up stuff in my mind. It's the perfect "daydream" for me. I also hate to think about this exciting prospect because in order to actually commit, it will take balls the size of Saddam's.
If rattle can specials spook you, then this will make you tremble.
Now in regards to the requested info....
Every chassis across the three sub generation models has these evenly spaced out pre threaded drilled holes. I haven't ever seen anybody use them even in the slightest manner, but most certainly one could either attach sections of pic rail, or even more tricked/customized out one could mod their VFGs, or Handstops to direct attach.
The dimensions of these pre threaded holes are as follows...
Width: .1640"
Depth: .2000 (+/- .0010)
http://i48.tinypic.com/27wwz7a.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/any35s.jpg
Only one man that I would send one of my beloved chassis to in order to perform this very radical alteration.....Marvin Pitts.
I'm very confident with a bit of time, and treasure he could produce something that would be pristine in terms of machining, and then re finished....not with a paint, but rather a whole new ano job. Ive seen work of his that touched on just this stuff and the finish product was amazing.
The potential reward on this is perhaps unmeasurable.....the sky is the limit, and if it works...it will straight drip sex appeal, especially if finished off with Marvin's KAC dimpling on the said MRP barrel.
It would tickle me pink to live vicariously through someone while they take this journey, but currently I just don't have the balls for it.
Godspeed to any future brave explorer...and may you be rewarded with copious amounts of treasure for your bold move.
Trident, again you are a wealth of knowledge!
Challenge accepted! I am goin to do it. The end game on this seems like the risk is worth the reward. With that being said, can I ask a favor...if anyone comes across a used mrp platform including the cqb size please pm me. I am on the forums a lot but I'm sure I will miss one for sale from time to time. I'm looking for a good deal...not just any used one where someone is asking like new prices...
I have a third option...and that's to order a brand new one, which I have the ability to get at dealer cost, but I hate to do this a vjrgin rail.....
ETA:
As I am planning this in my head, I trying to find the best option to use for bolt on rail sections. Trident if you don't mind can you measure the distance between the screw holes?
Curious if these would work from Badger Ordnance or something similar from someone else.
http://swfa.com/Badger-Ordnance-Picatinny-Rail-Sections-P51275.aspx
Or maybe the magpul polymer rail sections will work..7 slot section is 1.6", The number of spaces between the screw holes on the LMT is 7 and it's same on the Magpul. I think this should bolt on....
EGW sells raw rail sections but they would need a good bit of machining...
ETA:
Magpuls 7 rail section should work as it matches LMT
Vltor's, all of their rail sections should work as well
Would there be any issue with stripping the aluminum out on the MRP with the screws? Common sense applies here but it's something I could see happening.
Last edit...
Don't see why these wouldn't work...
http://www.lmtstore.com/accessories/rail-panels/l8rs6.html
Why not start with a tube with no rails and simply bolt on what you need? I used the PRI carbon fiber Delta on my precision AR and removed all the rail sections. PRI also make a round one
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Build/DSC_0201.jpg
There are less pricey aluminum tubes that rail sections can be bolted to
Why not start with a tube with no rails and simply bolt on what you need? I used the PRI carbon fiber Delta on my precision AR and removed all the rail sections. PRI also make a round one
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Build/DSC_0201.jpg
There are less pricey aluminum tubes that rail sections can be bolted to
Generally I would, but I'm looking to stick with the MRP platform..
i personally would like to do this mod on my mrp as well... i have access to a full machine shop with surface grinder and milling machine..
i would personally remove only the side rails and leave the top and bottom as is for strength and integrity issues.
what i would be concerned with is how much material to remove in order for every thing ( rail section) to fit properly and allow for inspec
rail.
My plan is to only remove "raised" sections on the two sides and bottom of the rail but leave the forward sling attachments. I don't know how to explain it better but I would only mill the "positive" rail sections off and make them flush with the "negative" valley sections (the part a screw would slide through if mounting a flash light)...I don't think it will effect integrity at all..
My two best options for replacement rail sections appear to be VLTOR (all lengths) or the Magpul 7 rail section.
MikeCLeonard
07-19-12, 15:04
This sounds like a really cool idea...one I might consider as well. With the right machines and skill "Marvin", this doesn't seem like it's really all that risky or complicated.
What I would like to see done, is make the MRP rail very similar to the KAC URX 3 seen below. I would remove all the side and bottom rails all the way back to the receiver though, and still leave the last 4 or 5 rails on the sides and bottom closest to the muzzle so that I could still mount flash-lights and a sling without having to use bolt-on rail segments.
Anyone know if those KAC URX 3 hand-guard panels would screw into the little threaded holes you've been talking about on the MRP?
With regard to rail strength...I may be wrong, but it doesn't seem like milling off the rail "peaks" would weeken the tube at all. It seems to me, that the rail would only be as strong as the diameter/thickness at the "vallies" anyway.
http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb451/sawyer222001/P1170093.jpg
Dont know if you can still get one of MEGA's Monolithic Tubular uppers since MEGA announced theyd stop making them since LMT is being a dick about monolithic intellectual property, but if you could find some shipped to dealers that have got to go (Rainer.. ?), then I fail to see how going through this dangerous, highly untested and extremely costly modification would provide any benefits over said MEGA Mono tube.
But yeah. Just my 0.02.
You've got gigantic balls bro!!!! I'm super excited to see how this turn out for you. I hope it goes well, best of luck!!!
Great thread, great read. My MRPs would definitely love to have some weight shaved.
Dont know if you can still get one of MEGA's Monolithic Tubular uppers since MEGA announced theyd stop making them since LMT is being a dick about monolithic intellectual property, but if you could find some shipped to dealers that have got to go (Rainer.. ?), then I fail to see how going through this dangerous, highly untested and extremely costly modification would provide any benefits over said MEGA Mono tube.
But yeah. Just my 0.02.
Apparently this is true. Monolithic IP? You've got to be kidding me. Mega's IP art differs significantly from LMT to win this battle, but it appears they do not have the funds and/or desire to wage it.
Wow, I almost forgot what keeps the internet powered for us all...overzealous opinions based on nothing. I do wonder why a few decided to blast off their overzealous and instantly formed opinions in this thread when there is already a thread that deals with that. Statements like "**** LMT", and "LMT is being a dick" sound a little childish...maybe it's just me.
At any rate....LMT gives two shits about a mega tube or colt 6940 upper.....the MRP isn't going to be replaced by those two for sure. Why would LMT go after a little boutique machine shop in Mega, or a Colt product that doesn't hardly sell.
LMT's policy of not dicking around on the internet or cultivating a fan boy club means they as a company won't ever appeal to the ever increasing "gucci gun" shooters, and they are the exact opposite of your favorite little civilian boutique rifle builder that sends you seasonings or fan gear. I'm sure LMT won't miss having two less fans on the internet, but you never know:)
Not really sure we're on the same page. Never meant to inspire downright "**** LMT" comments, just really wanted a MEGA Mono Tube, didnt have the money and now, no matter how much money I have, I may never get one. I would hope that simple aggravation would be understandable.
everyusernametaken
07-19-12, 21:07
Haha, the subject line of this thread was listed on the main forums page, where it gets cut off because of how long it is, so it says "Has anyone shaved down there" :D
Wow, I almost forgot what keeps the internet powered for us all...overzealous opinions based on nothing. I do wonder why a few decided to blast off their overzealous and instantly formed opinions in this thread when there is already a thread that deals with that. Statements like "**** LMT", and "LMT is being a dick" sound a little childish...maybe it's just me.
At any rate....LMT gives two shits about a mega tube or colt 6940 upper.....the MRP isn't going to be replaced by those two for sure. Why would LMT go after a little boutique machine shop in Mega, or a Colt product that doesn't hardly sell.
LMT's policy of not dicking around on the internet or cultivating a fan boy club means they as a company won't ever appeal to the ever increasing "gucci gun" shooters, and they are the exact opposite of your favorite little civilian boutique rifle builder that sends you seasonings or fan gear. I'm sure LMT won't miss having two less fans on the internet, but you never know:)
You're right. I reacted too quickly based on information from one article. I've tried to corroborate these allegations, but have not been able to do so at this time.
You see, my day job relates to the design of molecules and molecular compounds to treat acute and chronic diseases with frequent patent challenges and infringements, so I can get a bit testy when it comes to these issues.
I'll retract my statement unless the allegations are true.
With regards to "overzealous", "instantly formed", and "fan boys"... you're kidding, right? It's not like I'm touting the latest and greatest product from manufacturer X or Y without ever having used or installed these items.
Everything Geissele touches turns to gold:)
** this barrel is just really something else....I tried to capture the enormous quality on this barrel, but I really don't even think my pics do it justice. Currently I don't have much more to add on this uber premium GA barrel, but count on me trying to get all the info I can on them asap.
With regards to "overzealous", "instantly formed", and "fan boys"... you're kidding, right?
Lol... And Im not one to often type out "lol." Thats how good that was.
Also. Just noticed that, when viewed from the forums board, this thread's title is "Has anyone shaved down there..." Well played, OP. Well played.
Sorry to dig up an old thread but did anyone ever attempt this? I would love to see the results and wouldn't mind doing it to my rifle if the cost was not astronomical.
There is really no need to take such a huge risk nowadays by performing such a radical modification....the new LM8 chassis design does exactly what most of us would have wanted done...aka create a slick side chassis, with some form of acc. rail attachment design. The LM8 MRP CQB, and MWS chassis are currently on the market, and hopefully the LM8 MRP rifle length will become avail. sooner rather than later.
There is really no need to take such a huge risk nowadays by performing such a radical modification....the new LM8 chassis design does exactly what most of us would have wanted done...aka create a slick side chassis, with some form of acc. rail attachment design. The LM8 MRP CQB, and MWS chassis are currently on the market, and hopefully the LM8 MRP rifle length will become avail. sooner rather than later.
Where can I pick up the CQB?
Also, is the LM8 barrel swap any different than the original?
While not LMT, I had it done to my Centurion and am very pleased with the results.
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac279/jaxman7/81dffe52-df0c-43c1-9566-ab29b5b2ebf9_zps4c9c6195.jpg (http://s907.photobucket.com/user/jaxman7/media/81dffe52-df0c-43c1-9566-ab29b5b2ebf9_zps4c9c6195.jpg.html)
-Jax
While not LMT, I had it done to my Centurion and am very pleased with the results.
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac279/jaxman7/81dffe52-df0c-43c1-9566-ab29b5b2ebf9_zps4c9c6195.jpg (http://s907.photobucket.com/user/jaxman7/media/81dffe52-df0c-43c1-9566-ab29b5b2ebf9_zps4c9c6195.jpg.html)
-Jax
Sweet. What was the procedure and cost?
scoutfsu99
02-15-14, 09:11
The LM8 is difficult to find, especially as a stand alone upper. It is also pretty expensive. Changing out barrels is exactly the same as a standard CQB chassis. Whether the cost is worth it is entirely subjective. I think it would look pretty good...I'm liking jaxman's Centurion.
Sweet. What was the procedure and cost?
scooter,
It was a local machine shop that did it on a milling machine and it cost me $100.
-Jax
I can't find the LM8 uppers available anywhere.
While not LMT, I had it done to my Centurion and am very pleased with the results.
-Jax
Did you have it re-anodized?
I really like it, is the difference in weight noticable? I wish I could buy one from Centurion like this.
Did you have it re-anodized?
I really like it, is the difference in weight noticable? I wish I could buy one from Centurion like this.
I 'red necked' the finish. Since it was going to be covered in skater tape I just put some alumi-black on it then resprayed it with Krylon.
I haven't weighed it yet after the work but I will eventually. Not really any noticeable difference. Did it mainly to reduce the girth of it.
I haven't tried it yet as I don't have a URX 3.1 rail section but those URX sections may line up with the holes of the Centurion. Which would be cool if I ever needed to do that. Just need to get my hands on one to try out.
-Jax
Dont know if you can still get one of MEGA's Monolithic Tubular uppers since MEGA announced theyd stop making them since LMT is being a dick about monolithic intellectual property, but if you could find some shipped to dealers that have got to go (Rainer.. ?), then I fail to see how going through this dangerous, highly untested and extremely costly modification would provide any benefits over said MEGA Mono tube.
But yeah. Just my 0.02.
FYI it looks like they are making them again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eXwmCv1e9o
Not recommended for the MRP, at least not by Marvin Pitts. I recently checked into having my MPR CQB shaved and asked him if he would do it. This is his response dated 1/25/2014:
"I am not sure if I could accomplish what you want there are cut outs inside of the receiver that would break threw if I cut too much off of the rails"
Moreover, he didn't seemed interested in experimenting with mine which said a lot ot me. Accordingly, my MRP still has all of its damn rails!
BTW, I wanted it to look pretty much like Jaxman's (my explanation to Marvin was like a URX 3.1).
scooter,
It was a local machine shop that did it on a milling machine and it cost me $100.
-Jax
How long ago did you have it done? You could have got a fortis for less $, which mounts the same, and has almost the same rail interface on the sides, plus keymod, and lighter weight. Only thing diff is the fortis has a full lower rail.
Companies are luckily producing stuff people want these days, so the times of cutting rails off etc are starting to look like a thing of the past.
Wondering when Vltor will ever follow suit with their Mono uppers.
How long ago did you have it done? You could have got a fortis for less $, which mounts the same, and has almost the same rail interface on the sides, plus keymod, and lighter weight. Only thing diff is the fortis has a full lower rail.
I would get this rail but the fact that they have a disclaimer about how it touches the bayonet lug has kept me away. Sure one could grind off their bayo lug but why wouldn't Fortis have accounted for this in their design?
Edit - just realized this doesn't matter in Jaxman's set-up as his FSB is shaved....
I would get this rail but the fact that they have a disclaimer about how it touches the bayonet lug has kept me away. Sure one could grind off their bayo lug but why wouldn't Fortis have accounted for this in their design?
Edit - just realized this doesn't matter in Jaxman's set-up as his FSB is shaved....
Because bayo lugs are un needed. Why make a design heavier or more complex just to fit a bayonet lug in there. Shave the bish off :)
Because bayo lugs are un needed. Why make a design heavier or more complex just to fit a bayonet lug in there. Shave the bish off :)
Sensible, but it still irks me. I like the weight though so I suppose I'll end up shaving that bish off regardless and trying one...
But now I'm thinking I would like that bottom rail of the Fortis shaved off too :suicide2:
The LM8 is nice but it's not as easy to find, costs more, you lose the rear QD sockets, and I just think an old MRP with shaved rails would look better. I like Jaxman's Centurion rail too, that's about how I'd want the MRP done.
I agree. Shaved LMT MRP like the KAC URX 3 would be ideal.
I'm really not sure this is possible...or at least possible on the majority of the rail.
If you'll note the scoop cuts that run 3/4ths the way down the rail or at the rail mark 28 position. The width you have to work with total is .08"
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC09414_zps7e0e413b.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/DSC09414_zps7e0e413b.jpg.html)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC09381_zpsfb7dad86.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/DSC09381_zpsfb7dad86.jpg.html)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC09383_zps2435bf11.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/DSC09383_zps2435bf11.jpg.html)
The MRP chassis is quite unique. The depth, and intricacy of it's machining/design is off the charts, and they are really one off pieces. Screwing around on any LMT monolithic chassis would be like screwing around on your new 911 or M3. If it's possible, it will take a true savant engineer/machinist in my estimate.
Ruining the perfect ano finish, and compromising the world's most rigid/strong upper would ialso be big concerns of mine.
Those are great pics! Thanks for sharing.
I'm really not sure this is possible...or at least possible on the majority of the rail.
If you'll note the scoop cuts that run 3/4ths the way down the rail or at the rail mark 28 position. The width you have to work with total is .08"
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC09414_zps7e0e413b.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/DSC09414_zps7e0e413b.jpg.html)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC09381_zpsfb7dad86.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/DSC09381_zpsfb7dad86.jpg.html)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC09383_zps2435bf11.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/DSC09383_zps2435bf11.jpg.html)
The MRP chassis is a piece of art.....2lb chunk of alum. machined over 5 hrs straight. The depth, and intricacy of it's machining/design is off the charts, and they are really one off pieces. Screwing around on any LMT monolithic chassis would be like screwing around on your new 911 or M3. If it's possible, it will take a true savant engineer/machinist in my estimate.
Ruining the perfect ano finish, and compromising the world's most rigid/strong upper would ialso be big concerns of mine.
Marvin Pitts pretty much said it wasn't possible or more specifically that the risk of compromising the chassis is too great.
I wonder how much weight you'd really save by shaving the rails. Last night while cleaning my MWS I decided to weigh the upper and lower chassis sans barrel assembly and BCG and it came out to 5lbs, 6.5oz (I also had the iron sights, three rail ladders, and a LaRue handstop on there). It didn't seem like there was much weight on the rail. The 16" CL barrel assembly is 3lb, 7.2oz and the BCG was 1lb, 3.4oz. My 18" SS barrel assembly was just 5oz more than the 16" CL.
I wonder if it is possible or what it would be like to weld a KAC URX rail onto an upper similar to the way the VLTOR VIS is made.
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